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Author Topic: Tarots and Oracles...  (Read 18717 times)

Offline jenniferi

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2017, 10:49:06 am »
Em hotep!
Question for those who love divination:
I recently purchased The Book of Doors Oracle and there is a card for <s>Apop</s>
Do you leave this card out because we do not want to give it power by saying it's name and charging the card with that energy? Or do you feel it's useful to have such a negative card?

Senebty and thank you
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Usui Reiki Master/Teacher

Offline Sopedheru

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2017, 02:11:58 pm »
Em hotep Jenniferi :)

As someone who's been doing various forms of divination for 38 years (Tarot, runes, oracles, etc.)  I would leave the card in.   It's most likely the card that represents the Tower, which is choas and destruction (can be either positive or negative)  Apophis is the Greek name for it.  I don't necessarily look at the card AS representing the Kemetic being that is uncreation but more along the lines of the idea of it. 

I see 2 choices here.  Find another deck to use if this card bothers you (Remember, tarot and oracles are meant to invoke response emotionally, psychically, intellectually and physically) 

Or...  try asking the Netjeru for guidance on whether or not to even use the deck.  :)   

By removing the card, it's not a complete deck with a complete image of the representations of what it's all about.  :)   Just my 2 cents, I hope this helps :)

Senebty,
Soped

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2017, 02:13:27 pm »
Em hotep!
Question for those who love divination:
I recently purchased The Book of Doors Oracle and there is a card for <s>Apop</s>
Do you leave this card out because we do not want to give it power by saying it's name and charging the card with that energy? Or do you feel it's useful to have such a negative card?

Senebty and thank you

I have this oracle deck, and I leave it in. A/pep is shown being destroyed, with many knives shoved into it, so canonically this is not an issue. That is how A/pep is traditionally and safely represented-without-being-represented, in papyri and within temple reliefs, like those at Behdet / Edfu.

Now, if it were shown being worshiped or offered-to, I'd leave it out. Hell, more than leave it out, I'd burn it! But the creator(s) of that system didn't misrepresent or insult Egyptian beliefs and/or the Netjeru in that way, so it doesn't bother me. Moreover, removing it would mess-up the numbering system and would make using the die that much harder.

Senebty!
Sedjfai
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Wesir-Herishef, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu
𓃫𓃞 𓀱𓁡 𓅄 𓃤

Offline jenniferi

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2017, 03:21:06 pm »
I'm really not a fan of taking cards out either, I do like that it is depicted the way it is because of the knives. I just didn't want to offend anyone that is K.O if I did a post or reading with that card in it by keeping the card in as I didn't know if it would be appropriate or not.

It doesn't bother me, I just wanted some other opinions of people who have this deck. It's beautiful and I can't wait to read the book and use it.
Thank you for the responses.  I love tarot and oracle. I've been reading tarot and oracle decks for 13 years so far... I got this deck just to help connect with Netjer even more and be a good focus point for me.

:)
Thanks again!
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Offline Sopedheru

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2017, 05:28:17 pm »
One of my favorite Egyptian themed decks is  Ishbel's Temple of Isis Egyptian Tarot and one of the first oracle decks I got as a teen was The Way of the Cartouche  :)    My personal favorite deck though is a darker themed deck, it's the Thoth deck from the Golden Dawn.  There's just too many hehe :)   

When I read in public at fairs and shows.. I usually do a divination to see which deck wants to go and let the client choose which deck speaks to them :)   So far, the most popular ones are the Hansen-Roberts deck and the Mystic Dreamer tarot :)   I do psychometry as well, but I think that seems to scare people a bit lol   

My mom is a medium and usually when she reads cards they are blank.. that really freaks people out haha :)


Offline jenniferi

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2017, 08:26:24 pm »
Soped, that's so cool! I love the idea of the blank cards.
There's a deck that's Egyptian themed that I really want that's called the "Journey into Egypt" tarot but it's an independent deck sold by the artist.
 I have the pocket edition of the Isis Oracle by Alana Fairchild and I LOVE it. I also love that the pocket edition has no card names, just images on front and the meanings on the back. I like to read just by looking at the images of Aset and Wesir and seeing what feelings or messages come to me then turn to the back to see if they coincide or are different than the deck's message. They are usually complimentary.

Anytime you wanna talk tarot or oracle, I'm down. ;) one of my favorite things in the world! I collect decks.

Senebty

Senebty
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Offline Salqu

  • Beginner
  • Country: nz
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2017, 09:44:51 am »
I may have missed something here, I can be a bit of a lazy reader at times, admittedly... But I am just wondering if anyone can confirm if any of the Egyptian themed Tarot decks are done properly, as in have a deeper than surface meaning in the images depicted in them, proper use of symbolism, etc.

Offline Awibemhethert

  • Rev. Ibi - Ordained Clergy - New Members Bak
  • Country: 00
Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2017, 11:52:58 am »
It depends on what you mean by done properly.

To my mind, the Ancient Egyptian Tarot is not done properly. Some of the mythology listed is correct. Some is not. He also went way out of his way to connect the gods,  Hermetic magic, astrology, and changed the traditional meanings of some cards. For me this isn't "proper" or interesting. Putting Set on the Devil card as the Devil really misses out on Who Set is. And I'm very much not into Hermeticism. I also don't think the Egyptians used Western astrology. And changing the traditional meaning of the cards just feels wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Awibemhethert
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet
meryt Wesir

Self-Care Hethert Keeper

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2017, 03:54:52 pm »
I may have missed something here, I can be a bit of a lazy reader at times, admittedly... But I am just wondering if anyone can confirm if any of the Egyptian themed Tarot decks are done properly, as in have a deeper than surface meaning in the images depicted in them, proper use of symbolism, etc.

Em hotep, Salqu!

I don't use decks that follow a traditional tarot format, personally. In my opinion and experience, that is not particularly well-suited to Egyptian and/or Ancient Near Eastern-anything.

The Book of Doors, the one collection of cards I use for my Kemetic practice, are Hermetically-inspired, and some of the designations for the individual cards (like "Amsu" for Min) are antiquated and somewhat misinformed. However, the use of Egyptian symbolism in that system is fairly on-point and something I can use. A lot of thought went into the art used, there, and I have gotten a lot out of it for what it is.

I find that a lot of cartomancy systems are inadequate in that way -- that is, largely having poor descriptions, and are only capable of giving you a finite number and manner of answers. But, so long as the images are appropriate and the given system doesn't simply regurgitate the numberings and meanings of traditional tarot, I can usually make use of them and intuit meanings from the images themselves.

If you're looking for a perfect system for cartomancy vis-a-vis "genuine Kemetic practice," you're not going to find it. It's not a form of divination that developed within Egyptian religion(s) / ANE religions. There's no comparable Egyptian model to draw from to create "the perfect, all-encompassing deck" from any historically-informed Kemetic perspective. Cartomancy is inherently limited in what you can represent, and how much you can represent, which falls inevitably short of the infinitude and polyvalence of Ancient (and Modern Revivalist) Egyptian religious representations and meanings. There's always going to be a degree of "mismatching" where that is concerned.

An aside: Casting lots and asking yes/no questions is a much simpler, much more direct manner of divination that Ancient Near Eastern peoples, Egyptians included, actually employed and that make complete sense to these religion(s) and their Modern counterparts. For myself, I usually do lot-casting first, and if a query involves something more than a basic "yes/no" answer, I will break out the cards. Indeed, I perform a preliminary throw to ascertain whether my Lord in question is willing to answer me further in that moment, by any method I have knowledge of. There have been times when my Lord has said, in essence, "Do not consult Me today." Sometimes attempts at divination are made at inauspicious times, and I have found that it's better to ask first and not push it. :P

I hope this helps!

Senebty,
Sedjfai
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Wesir-Herishef, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu
𓃫𓃞 𓀱𓁡 𓅄 𓃤

Offline Salqu

  • Beginner
  • Country: nz
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2017, 04:08:49 am »
I see, that does help a bit, I'll look into that. Though mainly I experience divination through dreams, I just don't seem to be able to choose when and what I see!

Offline Riley.rifle

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2017, 12:59:35 pm »
Em hotep,

I am very glad to see this thread. I recently started working on an Oracle deck and this is something I struggled with. In the end I decided to use apep in the deck. I did make a point of striking out both the name and the image, as to not give it more power. I think, for my own deck at least, it was a necessary decision. Nothing else is quite like it and it was really needed in my deck.  I'm still working on the deck though, so who knows.

Senebty,
Leaha
🙌☀
Dua Ra!
Dua Netjer!
~_^

Offline Taji

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2017, 07:10:15 pm »
It depends on what you mean by done properly.

To my mind, the Ancient Egyptian Tarot is not done properly. Some of the mythology listed is correct. Some is not. He also went way out of his way to connect the gods,  Hermetic magic, astrology, and changed the traditional meanings of some cards. For me this isn't "proper" or interesting. Putting Set on the Devil card as the Devil really misses out on Who Set is. And I'm very much not into Hermeticism. I also don't think the Egyptians used Western astrology. And changing the traditional meaning of the cards just feels wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, Set isn't the Devil.  He's the Tower. (I would dispute that the Uncreated is the Tower).  Destruction that brings about much needed, a likely overdue, change.
Tasedjebbastmut, The One Whom Bast-Mut Restores to Life
Fierce | Proud | Strong
Daughter of Bast-Mut | Beloved of Yinepu-Wepwawet, Sekhmet-Hethert, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset-Serqet

Offline Awibemhethert

  • Rev. Ibi - Ordained Clergy - New Members Bak
  • Country: 00
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2017, 08:07:59 pm »
Exactly, Taji!
Awibemhethert
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet
meryt Wesir

Self-Care Hethert Keeper

Offline jenniferi

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Tarots and Oracles...
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2017, 04:14:39 pm »
-henu-
Bumping this post because I love reading about tarot and oracles here!

I have a tarot deck called Tarot of the Ages that has some pretty awesome Egyptian scenes for the major arcana. The minor arcana are split into other past civilizations of the world.
The emperor is a pharaoh with the Two Ladies at his feet. Some other cards are just weird like the Devil card has Baphomet, which makes no sense to me but altogether not a bad deck.

Here's the Emperor card:
 https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5a/44/01/5a4401de6c8d1043bdebfa75204e8ee0.jpg

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