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Author Topic: Not eating my offerings?  (Read 387 times)

Offline Minpin

  • Country: 00
Not eating my offerings?
« on: December 06, 2017, 05:57:45 pm »
I understand that "back in time" living in harsher times and climates burying or burning good food was potentially really bad. But considering that I live in a moderate clima with a total abundance of food I feel that preparing food and gifts strictly as a sacrifice adds more weight to it.

So I never consume what I offer myself and tend to bury (organic) things in my garden. I never consider it a waste because it was a gift for our God/s.

I perfectly understand that this is not the norm and plenty of people simply don't have the financial resources to do so. I don't think that anyone who eats their own offerings is doing anything wrong, this is just my own preference.

What I would like to know is if anyone else does this too?
Hail Anubis!

Online Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 07:41:17 pm »
Em hotep nefer, Minpin! :)

This specifically I want to address:

I understand that "back in time" living in harsher times and climates burying or burning good food was potentially really bad. But considering that I live in a moderate clima with a total abundance of food I feel that preparing food and gifts strictly as a sacrifice adds more weight to it.

That is not particularly true of the Ancient Near East / Northeast Africa and its diverse cultures/religions. In Levantine religions, particularly later Judean religion, there were absolutely immolation offerings made in temples that were not consumed; it had absolutely nothing to do with how fertile the land was, or how scarce crop yields were for any given year. There were also funerary as well as Divine food offerings that were shared by the very people who donated those offerings. Under some ritual/festival circumstances, as in some Levantine religions, the food and libations, once the Gods were "done" with them, were consumed only by the officiating priest(s) and their family.

As a general rule in Egyptian religion(s), namely their Modern Revivals and most specifically our Kemetic Orthodoxy here, funerary food offerings are not eaten by living people, but Divine food offerings are to be reverted and eaten, since the food is spiritually imbued with the Divine life-giving heka of the Netjeru in the ritual act of offering it to Them. Throwing away food offered to the Gods is generally, but not necessarily universally, frowned upon in Egyptian religion(s). That is also typically the rule for most other Afro-Asiatic religions, though for example Mesopotamian religions have a habit of sharing food with ancestors, not just the Gods, never simply committing those life-energies embodied by food to the dead and refraining from touching that food afterward.

I think it safe to say that the vast majority of self-described and formally initiated Kemetic Orthodox here revert and consume their food offerings made to the Netjeru. That is to say, that is the official stance of our Temple, on what people who consider themselves Kemetic Orthodox ought to do with Divine food offerings.

I hope this helps!

Senebty,
Sedjfai
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:44:44 pm by Sedjfaiemitui »
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Wesir-Herishef, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu
𓃫𓃞 𓀱𓁡 𓅄 𓃤

Offline Khamheru

  • Shemsu
  • Country: br
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 08:46:01 pm »
That's curious. Sometimes we don't have money to buy food here, so hearing an experience like that is quite shocking. In my own experience my personal gods always expect from me to eat the food offering because that's why it was made for, after all.
Khamheru
Sat Heru-wer
Meryt Aset-Serqet, Wesir, & Set

Offline Minpin

  • Country: 00
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 01:45:27 am »
Em hotep nefer, Minpin! :)

This specifically I want to address:

I understand that "back in time" living in harsher times and climates burying or burning good food was potentially really bad. But considering that I live in a moderate clima with a total abundance of food I feel that preparing food and gifts strictly as a sacrifice adds more weight to it.

That is not particularly true of the Ancient Near East / Northeast Africa and its diverse cultures/religions. In Levantine religions, particularly later Judean religion, there were absolutely immolation offerings made in temples that were not consumed; it had absolutely nothing to do with how fertile the land was, or how scarce crop yields were for any given year. There were also funerary as well as Divine food offerings that were shared by the very people who donated those offerings. Under some ritual/festival circumstances, as in some Levantine religions, the food and libations, once the Gods were "done" with them, were consumed only by the officiating priest(s) and their family.

As a general rule in Egyptian religion(s), namely their Modern Revivals and most specifically our Kemetic Orthodoxy here, funerary food offerings are not eaten by living people, but Divine food offerings are to be reverted and eaten, since the food is spiritually imbued with the Divine life-giving heka of the Netjeru in the ritual act of offering it to Them. Throwing away food offered to the Gods is generally, but not necessarily universally, frowned upon in Egyptian religion(s). That is also typically the rule for most other Afro-Asiatic religions, though for example Mesopotamian religions have a habit of sharing food with ancestors, not just the Gods, never simply committing those life-energies embodied by food to the dead and refraining from touching that food afterward.

I think it safe to say that the vast majority of self-described and formally initiated Kemetic Orthodox here revert and consume their food offerings made to the Netjeru. That is to say, that is the official stance of our Temple, on what people who consider themselves Kemetic Orthodox ought to do with Divine food offerings.

I hope this helps!

Senebty,
Sedjfai

It does help! Thank you a lot.

Hail Anubis!

Offline Tarytenyinepu

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 06:19:38 pm »
I agree with Kham here. To me, it's kind of like making someone a birthday cake, letting them blow out the candles, giving them a slice of the cake, and then tossing the cake in the trash. We are celebrating the Gods, but we are also celebrating with the Gods. I would not purposely offer anything that then got wasted or left to sit in a landfill for eternity (trash often doesn't break down due to the lack of oxygen). While, again, there are cultures where divine offerings should not be touched or consumed, I recall that it was disrespectful in antiquity to take an offering that was given to the Gods and not consume it. If you don't want to revert the offerings, that is your call. Still, I know my Gods would be displeased at wasting the sustenance They had returned to me. As far as They are concerned (at least what I've learned in my 8 years of bonding with Them), They are happy that they get the "choice piece(s)" of whatever I offer Them--They take the essence of the offering, whatever the *best* part of it is, and leave the remainder for me.

And as for Yinepu, He'd be disappointed in me if I didn't enjoy the offering with him
Taryt En Yinepu "Respect for Yinepu"
Please do not call me "Taryten" <3.
Sat Yinepu-Wepwawet, Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert her Djehuty her Montu
"The best thing in life is to wake up tomorrow." -- Uncle Jack

Offline Minpin

  • Country: 00
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 01:46:17 am »
I agree with Kham here. To me, it's kind of like making someone a birthday cake, letting them blow out the candles, giving them a slice of the cake, and then tossing the cake in the trash. We are celebrating the Gods, but we are also celebrating with the Gods. I would not purposely offer anything that then got wasted or left to sit in a landfill for eternity (trash often doesn't break down due to the lack of oxygen). While, again, there are cultures where divine offerings should not be touched or consumed, I recall that it was disrespectful in antiquity to take an offering that was given to the Gods and not consume it. If you don't want to revert the offerings, that is your call. Still, I know my Gods would be displeased at wasting the sustenance They had returned to me. As far as They are concerned (at least what I've learned in my 8 years of bonding with Them), They are happy that they get the "choice piece(s)" of whatever I offer Them--They take the essence of the offering, whatever the *best* part of it is, and leave the remainder for me.

And as for Yinepu, He'd be disappointed in me if I didn't enjoy the offering with him

Fair point.

But just personally, I don't think it's wasted at all if it went to the God and then returns back to nature to rot and nourish bacteria as well as the Earth. I also offer a lot of stuff that I can't possibly consume myself that much or don't even like (Alcohol, very dark chocolates, coffee and honey)...

It really just feels more meaningful to me if it's a pure sacrifice though I understand that this is not the norm and just how I feel about it.

I think it also to do with me having a more subservient relationship to the God unlike a lot of other people who kind of treat the God (or Gods) like their buddies, equals or call them cute which I do not like for my own practice.
Hail Anubis!

Offline Taji

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2017, 12:04:27 pm »
Is it a sacrifice though if you’re offering something you don’t even like?  I mean, you weren’t going to eat it anyway, right?

I actually just got a gentle rebuke for that very thing.  I was using a perfume I had bought but ended up not liking in lieu of incense.  They had no objection to the concept, They objected to my use of something I didn’t enjoy in honoring Them.

Anyone need some perfume?  Heh.

Senebty,

Taji

Edited: not to mention that “sacrifice” isn’t the operative concept.  It’s more like a gift, an invitation, reciprocity, sharing. You wouldn’t have your boss over for dinner and then not eat. That’s not showing your boss respect. It’s off putting and odd.

Ours isn’t a religion that finds holiness in deprivation and want.  We find it in celebration, sharing, and abundance. We share with our Gods, and in turn They share with us.

My above example, I realize, isn’t strictly apt.  I am not to give Them a perfume I love and thereby deprive myself of it.  It’s more like a spray for Them and a spray for me so we can enjoy the scent together.

I’m not saying you’re doing something wrong or offensive.  That’s between you and your Gods.  Just that your logic isn’t KO logic and trying to better explain where we come from with it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 12:31:35 pm by Taji »
Tasedjebbastmut
Daughter of Bast-Mut and Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Offline Minpin

  • Country: 00
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2017, 01:54:06 pm »
According to my smell I need some perfume! ;P (No, no, all good!)

Well to me the sacrifice is the time I put into getting the goods, spending money (that I worked for) for them and preparing it.

And I generally am not a picky-eater, if offered what I consume it would be pretty random and not as good in quality. For example I would eat some cheap bar of chocolate with low quality but I'd like to get a very dark and organic chocolate for Anubis.

Similar like I would try to get the best for a friend but I myself am content with eating rests that have been left out from last day.

>Just that your logic isn’t KO logic and trying to better explain where we come from with it.

Yes! I see. I appreciate your input, and thank you for being so friendly about it.

Hail Anubis!

Offline Taji

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2017, 03:00:54 pm »
I get that. You wouldn’t have your boss over for dinner and serve leftovers either.  :).

I think you’re using “sacrifice” in the way I would say “effort”.  It makes sense.  The time you spend preparing the offering is time you could’ve spent doing something else and that itself is part of the offering.  We definitely do that. 

We’re more on the same page than not, I think. 
Tasedjebbastmut
Daughter of Bast-Mut and Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Online Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2017, 06:19:35 pm »

Ours isn’t a religion that finds holiness in deprivation and want. We find it in celebration, sharing, and abundance. We share with our Gods, and in turn They share with us.


^ Golden words, right there. Couldn't have said it better myself. :)
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Wesir-Herishef, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu
𓃫𓃞 𓀱𓁡 𓅄 𓃤

Offline Saymari

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 10:08:21 pm »
This is something I struggle with myself but I find it is better to eat an offering (or atleast a bit of an offering) rather than letting it sit. I see it as an affirmation my own personal status as priest of the Netjeru. That doesn't mean I often do it because I have a lot of misgivings since I also study and practice Fae and Druidic traditions where you should never eat offerings because most of the spirits there are the dead, Sidhe or (in the case of deities) related to the Sidhe. It takes some effort to go "oh this is to my gods and my gods want to share". It is much easier for me to do in my personal practice as I offer time separate from my other workings to the Netjer but my Senut offerings always gave me a misgiving given there is a line where we offer water to our Ahku and every other tradition I follow says to not to partake of the food and drink of the dead.

I think a major factor is what you are able to do from a comfort level and pushing said comfort levels in order to better yourself. Like, if you feel such an extreme discomfort and a dozen red flags all go off at the very thought of eating an offering then I wouldn't as it would interfere with your worship. However, if you just are a bit hesitant you should probably at least try to push yourself and trust in the Netjeru. They would not set you up for failure and They would not ask you to partake of an offering just to slap it out of your hand. They are not that type of gods and They do not ask for that kind of thing from those whom serve them.

Of course, we all have a ways to go and well that's perfectly fine. I know I have a way to go in my journey with the Netjeru and that I hold onto some habits too tight. Whether it be in how I view and hold myself or something as silly as not being able to share a drink of water with my gods. I will take comfort in knowing that I am serving the gods I love to the fullest and I feel we all should do the same.
On an eternal search for the truth with occasional stops for snacks and site seeing.

Hey guys, I am trying to get some practice with some oracle work. Anyone who wants a reading please feel free to message me ^_^

Offline Tjemsy

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2017, 08:09:46 am »
I'm rambling, like I do, so I've made bolded categories. ^^;

Tjemsy Says Stuff about Reverting

Our Official KO Stance on offerings is that we "revert," or eat stuff we give to NTR, but do not revert what we give to the Akhu. As such, I exclusively consume offerings I give to NTR. If you want to "give back" to the Earth or the animals or what have you, you may do so with Akhu offerings, when they are safe to leave out. Some things that are perfectly okay for us to eat might not be so safe for animals. ^^; You may also make a separate offering to the local Netjeri (spirits, or other non-akh, non-god beings) in this manner. Netjer really seems to be encouraging us to connect with the Netjeri lately, so I think they would approve of that. That way, you'd still be following the "official" rule that you revert what you give to NTR, and in that, you would be maintaining that sense of fellowship in offering to them. And you could connect with the Akhu and Netjeri by offering stuff you have no intention of consuming, so as to "return it to the Earth." Win-win? Win-win-win? ^^;

Why Not Revert for NTR? (aka, oops)

Personally, the only times I have not reverted offerings for NTR is if I have made some sort of error, and am unable to consume the thing. For example, I very nearly did this the other day (but caught myself, so no worries :D). I was prepping my offerings for Senut, where I usually give my breakfast, along with any other special things. Frequently, this involves milk. As I was about to begin, offerings all laid and everything, I realized, to my shock, that I had to leave for work immediately. I thought I had well enough time, so I was scrambling, and I felt badly for setting up and having to be like "just kidding, bye!" I left everything that could stay out, and put the milk in the fridge, explaining that I had to and oops and I would be bringing it back out when I get back. If I left the milk out, it would have been bad by the time I got back. Don't drink it. Netjer doesn't want you to make yourself sick.

I've offered something with the best of intentions that I thought would be very tasty and it turned out to be make-you-gag horrible. Don't eat that, either. On a less dramatic note, I used to drink my libations post-shrine, but every time I would gag, because the cups (pottery, like) gave the water a weird aftertaste. I did my best to just Deal until someone suggested using the leftover water for purification purposes, so now I do that. :3

In my experience, NTR very much does not want you to get them something you don't like and make yourself eat it anyway. That kind of...kills the whole fellowship thing. Sure, I guess you're doing something "for" them, but that sort of discomfort from the thing is really besides the point. It kinda negates the offering, in my opinion. Getting something you don't like and not reverting it is similar, because it doesn't really allow for connection. Does that make sense?

And yet, if you give an offering you are not crazy about but can still eat, I generally get the sense you should eat it anyway. I offered Aset a salted caramel ice cream on her birthday once. It's not my favorite, but it's "fine," generally...but it was enormous and wayyy more sweet than I thought it would be. She was like "Eat it anyway. Yes, all of it." Hahaha. Walked into that one, you see.

Unofficially

I guess you could offer a thing (to NTR) without reverting, but as we said, it's not our standard practice. It's not likely that you'll find anyone pushing that, or talking about it, for that reason. Exceptions can be very personal, which can be hard to relate to.

I was thinking, if it is a very private, case-by-case basis, and you are offering a small thing for a special occasion, NTR may accept that. For example, if you used to offer a cupcake to (insert Name here) on (insert very special occasion here), and something happened and now you can't eat cupcakes ever again and that is just heartbreaking for you, I feel like that is a highly personal situation, and maybe NTR will allow that to slide. In that case, the whole event is about connection, so the lack of eating would not challenge that. If you really want to give a thing you can't eat, sometimes NTR will allow you to let someone else do the consuming, again, on a case-by-case basis. My guess on that would be that not consuming it and giving it to someone else would probably interrupt connection, because the act is so removed from NTR. Any "exception" type stuff would really be between you and them, and I would expect that you would still be reverting otherwise, since that is the actual rule. Does that make sense? XD

The closest I've ever (personally) gotten on this front is offering a tray of cookies. Being that it is a tray and that is a lot, I would then share the actual cookies with my friends/roommates. Netjer seems to enjoy the sort of goodwill and day-brightening that comes with that, I think. That and we were actually eating it all, albeit in a different manner. Your mileage may vary. ^^;

Outside KO

Just because I thought it was interesting, I don't revert anything I give to my other (not Kemetic) god. I think in part because it is more about giving a gift/showing appreciation than facilitating connectedness, and if you give a gift, you don't then take it back. Once I give a thing, it is His and that is the end of it. I do actually buy him stuff I wouldn't eat myself for this reason, but only in small portions. I would probably not offer an entire cake, for example, but I'll grab a slice. ^^; He really seems to dislike waste, though. If I'm ever considering throwing out food (any food) because it's not gonna get eaten, he'll usually want me to give it to him. So even though his offerings end up in the trash (when he's done with them), it is not the same as just throwing something away. Offering it changes it into something else, like.
Tjemsy - "Two Red Ones"
formerly rainbowrosepetals

Sat Sekhmet her Set
Meryt Heru-wer, Bast, Wepwawet, Taweret, & Nebthet

Offline Senuwierneheh

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 08:13:46 am »
but my Senut offerings always gave me a misgiving given there is a line where we offer water to our Ahku and every other tradition I follow says to not to partake of the food and drink of the dead.

Em Hotep!

A separate little cup and/or plate just for Ahku solves that little problem. 

Even on the days when I don't do Senut, I at least pour a little cup of water for myself to share with the Netjeru when I do prayers.  It's like the Gods have been invited to your home and you're sharing a drink and/or meal with them.

I love the quote from Taji, too. 

Senebty,
Neheh...
Senuwierneheh (My Two, forever)
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Set, meryt Ptah-Sokar-Wesir, Djehuty, her Heru-Wer
Self-care Hethert, Set and Ptah Advocate
𓁥 𓁣 𓁰

Offline Taji

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 11:12:36 am »
When I do do senut, I give the water to my plants.  Same with my akhu shrine water.  Something about water that dead people have been at is really great for plants. 
Tasedjebbastmut
Daughter of Bast-Mut and Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Offline Gleb

  • Remetj
  • Country: 00
Re: Not eating my offerings?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2017, 12:53:31 pm »
Em hotep nefer, Minpin! :)


As a general rule in Egyptian religion(s), namely their Modern Revivals and most specifically our Kemetic Orthodoxy here, funerary food offerings are not eaten by living people, but Divine food offerings are to be reverted and eaten, since the food is spiritually imbued with the Divine life-giving heka of the Netjeru in the ritual act of offering it to Them. Throwing away food offered to the Gods is generally, but not necessarily universally, frowned upon in Egyptian religion(s). That is also typically the rule for most other Afro-Asiatic religions, though for example Mesopotamian religions have a habit of sharing food with ancestors, not just the Gods, never simply committing those life-energies embodied by food to the dead and refraining from touching that food afterward.

I think it safe to say that the vast majority of self-described and formally initiated Kemetic Orthodox here revert and consume their food offerings made to the Netjeru. That is to say, that is the official stance of our Temple, on what people who consider themselves Kemetic Orthodox ought to do with Divine food offerings.

I hope this helps!

Senebty,
Sedjfai

If the OP consents, I'd like to ask for further explanation. I've had this question for a while now and haven't really understood how the spiritual part of the offerings goes to the Neteru. And I feel a bit unsure of consuming the physical part of the offerings. I know it's the practice here but it doesn't make me feel better about it.
Senebty,
Gleb

 


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