The House of Netjer, a Kemetic Orthodox Temple

[PUBLIC] About the Kemetic Orthodox Religion => [PUBLIC] Kemetic Orthodox Q&A => Topic started by: Lenny on February 26, 2010, 11:50:10 am

Title: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Lenny on February 26, 2010, 11:50:10 am
I have been burring them. Is that correct or does it just depend on the individual Netjer?


Senebty
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Bestekeni on February 26, 2010, 12:18:16 pm
Food offerings to Netjer are to be consumed, not wasted.  Akhu offerings are another matter, though, and burying can be an appropriate way to dispose of those, I think.  
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Bastmuttepta on February 26, 2010, 12:20:49 pm
Em hotep, Lenny :)

It really depends on what you are offering, and Who you are offering to.

When offering to Netjer:
-When we offer food or drink, we usually consume it after a period of time when we feel Netjer has "finished" with it. Netjer takes the non-physical essence of the food, but what is left is "blessed" in a sense as Netjer has interacted with it.
-When we offer objects like stones or jewelry, they are usually left on the shrine or stored in a box on/under/near the shrine.
-When offering actions, there's nothing to dispose of anyway. :)

When offering to your ancestors (Akhu):
-We do not consume food or drink offered to our Akhu, as they are deceased. They remove the 'energy' of the food and afterwards it isn't something we consider good for us to eat. You can dispose of the food by leaving it out for wildlife, watering a house plant with water, or just throwing it away. Keep in mind food offered to the Akhu is usually a very small portion so you aren't tossing a whole meal.
-When we offer objects like stones or jewelry, again, they are usually left on the shrine or stored in a box on/under/near the shrine.
-When offering actions, just as with offering them to Netjer, there's nothing to dispose of anyway.

This is my general understanding. Keep in mind I'm Remetj and no 'expert' on offerings in the least ;P

Senebty,

Laura
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Lenny on February 26, 2010, 12:21:53 pm
I have been burring food offerings. And i'm sorry what is Akhu? Lol i don't know all the terms yet.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Bastmuttepta on February 26, 2010, 12:24:07 pm
Quote from: Lenny
I have been burring food offerings. And i'm sorry what is Akhu? Lol i don't know all the terms yet.


*points up to her post* Ancestors, the blessed dead. :)

*also nudges Tek about an extra 'not' thrown into her post o.o*

Senebty,

Laura
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Bestekeni on February 26, 2010, 12:28:58 pm
Eek, thanks for that!  My post now reads how I intended it to be read.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Lenny on February 26, 2010, 12:30:09 pm
Ah ok. That may be why Hethert got mad at me after I burried Her offerings. (She helped me a while ago) And Bast did not mind what i did with the food.(My mom ran over a cat yesterday) I kept her food out all night so i don't think she expected me to eat it unless She wanted me to puke. Icecream and choclate milk does not tast good warm.... Bast was verry nice.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Taqaisenu on February 26, 2010, 12:36:01 pm
Quote from: Lenny
Ah ok. That may be why Hethert got mad at me after I burried Her offerings. (She helped me a while ago)


I don't know about getting mad, but at times Netjer enjoys and prefers that we sit with Them and share the offerings.  It's my favorite way of spending quality time with Them: Just sitting, eating the homemade cupcake I just offered, drinking the drink I just offered, and simply visiting.  It is special time well spent.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Lenny on February 26, 2010, 12:43:01 pm
Idk She did not seem verry happy  :(
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: The Tai'awepwawet System on February 26, 2010, 05:05:57 pm
Quote from: Lenny
I kept her food out all night so i don't think she expected me to eat it unless She wanted me to puke. Icecream and choclate milk does not tast good warm.... Bast was verry nice.


Heru-Wer gets a good laugh out of each time I try to drink his offerings (things like rum and such) for the first time, but he doesn't make me if I turn out to dislike it. It's not like I have to CONSUME IT OR FACE THE WRATH OF GOD.

The Netjeru understand that I am a seriously fussy eater and drinker and so may have to come up with alternate disposal methods in order to offer them interesting things.

(this is one of the reasons I tend to only offer them liquid)
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Lenny on February 26, 2010, 05:39:21 pm
Lol ok thanx. :) I think i will stop leaving offering out all night unless the Netjer i am giving it to wanted it so i can enjoy it with them.  :)

Senebty
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Rodina on February 26, 2010, 09:34:08 pm
I offer grain, fruit, bread, olives, and spices. Sometimes other things. I put them out for the animals. Nothing better than to see birds eat the offerings.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Lenny on February 27, 2010, 07:45:10 am
That's nice.  :) I have did that before i starting looking into K.O. I would put everything on a plat out in the woods and direct it to what ever God i am giving it too.  Then a racoon would get to it or something after awhile :)

Senebty
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Wesirempet on April 14, 2010, 10:53:06 am
I have two questions along with this =]
We never have much food in the house so do the not mind too much what I offer? Like just bread or milk? Or are there any specifics? Can I also offer incense, and oil?

And this may sound really silly, but how long do I leave an offering out generally? I ask because I can imagine myself offering it and then sitting tehre waiting for ten minutes till I can comsume it ^^
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Bastmuttepta on April 14, 2010, 11:31:40 am
Em hotep, Amunti :)

Different Names/Gods like different sorts of things, They all have different preferences. A lot of this is trial and error- the more you offer and the variety of things you offer, you will probably get different impressions. Some will be received well, others not so much. You may even get impressions that they really want something you've never offered before, so maybe you try it out and it works. :) However, They also understand our limitations. Any heartfelt offering will usually be received warmly.

That being said, food, incense, oils, objects, and even acts (like community service) are all things we can present/do as offerings. Obviously you wouldn't consume the incense, oils or objects afterwards (eww, lol), but usually with all things you tend to get a "sense" when whatever Name you're offering to is done with it. Trust your intuition- it may be a few minutes or a little bit longer. With incense, I usually let it burn out completely. With the object offerings like jewelry, gemstones, etc, I leave it in Shrine- because it belongs to Them now, not me. It usually only takes 5-10 minutes for whatever Name I'm offering food to let me know They're done with it. :)

Senebty!
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Menemaset on April 14, 2010, 11:38:48 am
Quote from: Amuntihera
We never have much food in the house so do the not mind too much what I offer? Like just bread or milk? Or are there any specifics?


Em hotep!

Most Names are said to like cool, clean water. It may sound really normal and almost boring, but one day I sat down and really thought about it. Water is truly essential to our lives and well-being (directly and indirectly). Offering such an important substance (even if it is readily accessible in modern times) can be really special. :)

Senebty,

Coty

Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: The Tai'awepwawet System on April 14, 2010, 12:05:37 pm
Quote from: Amuntihera
And this may sound really silly, but how long do I leave an offering out generally? I ask because I can imagine myself offering it and then sitting tehre waiting for ten minutes till I can comsume it ^^
 


I am so the same >.> It's one of the reasons I don't offer food much. Maybe the odd wrapped candy so that I can continue munching my pieces while Theirs sit on one side.

Situations like offering my piece of cake, well, I end up staring at it like a dog waiting to be told "Okay!". It's a bit ridiculous. For that reason I only offer that sort of thing to Dad, and I tend to 'see' him snarf it up in jackal form, which takes less than a minute :P I like to think he does this specifically because he knows I'm more comfortabe that way. Both with the food being sorted quickly, and with dealing with it in an informal animalistic manner.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Senushemi on April 14, 2010, 12:26:50 pm
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
Maybe the odd wrapped candy...  


This reminds me of the story about the first time wrapped candy was offered to, Yinepu, I think.  He said the center was great, but the outside tasted a bit funny...

Needless to say, we tend to unwrap candy now before offering it.  :D
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Wesirempet on April 14, 2010, 01:09:22 pm
Quote from: Coty


Most Names are said to like cool, clean water. It may sound really normal and almost boring, but one day I sat down and really thought about it. Water is truly essential to our lives and well-being (directly and indirectly). Offering such an important substance (even if it is readily accessible in modern times) can be really special. :)



I totally agree! I always use water in ritual because it is so natural and is the source of life :)


 
Quote from: Senushemi

This reminds me of the story about the first time wrapped candy was offered to, Yinepu, I think.  He said the center was great, but the outside tasted a bit funny...

Needless to say, we tend to unwrap candy now before offering it.  :D



I read that on a netjeru comic strip!!!!
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: gracesong on April 21, 2010, 10:36:16 pm
Hi, i'm new to all this, but would it be OK to offer the Netjer some food and then partake of it with them?
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Meruti on April 21, 2010, 10:44:39 pm
Quote from: gracesong
Hi, i'm new to all this, but would it be OK to offer the Netjer some food and then partake of it with them?


Absolutely! They really seem to enjoy shared meals. :]
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: gracesong on April 21, 2010, 11:17:29 pm
 Is it necessary to wait prior to eating it yourself, or is it OK to eat it with them?
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Meruti on April 21, 2010, 11:41:55 pm
Quote from: gracesong
Is it necessary to wait prior to eating it yourself, or is it OK to eat it with them?


I've found that the best way to go about it is to wait a minute or two, and then go ahead and start eating the offering yourself. This is just a general rule, though. Different gods have different preferences; some are fine with you eating the food immediately after you offer it, some like you to wait for a few minutes, and some would rather that you leave it alone for a good half-hour or so.

It's a cliche, but: go with your gut feeling and trust that They'll give you feedback on the things you do for Them. Whatever you do, just keep in mind that Nobody is going to smite you if you slip up. :]
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: gracesong on April 21, 2010, 11:45:25 pm
Awesome! Thanks! :D
Do you guys generally hear the god's voice in your head, sort of telepathically. Do you also feel the emotions?
Also, is it OK to offer either fish or pork to Heru-sa-Aset?
thanks, and sorrry for the bazillion questions! :)
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Tanebet on April 22, 2010, 01:31:30 am
Em hotep *henu*,

I never offer Dad fish. I guess it has to do with the Osiris myth and a fish swallowing his body part. But that's my personal gnosis.
I hardly ever offer pork. But He accepts it, though i think it is more due to the fact that I invested time in cooking.

Senebety
Tanebet
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: gracesong on April 22, 2010, 02:20:46 am
 Has anyone tried, or is it just common knowledge?
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Tanebet on April 22, 2010, 02:58:08 am
You can always try and see how He reacts. The Gods do what they want and it has been known that one Name wants from one person other things than from other persons.
As I said, it is my own UPG that Heru-Sa-Aset doesn't want fish.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: gracesong on April 22, 2010, 08:37:02 am
Oh, OK. i was just curious.
Thanks! :)
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Tanebet on April 22, 2010, 09:13:20 am
You are welcome  
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Rev. Shezatwepwawet on April 22, 2010, 10:07:48 am
Quote from: gracesong
Awesome! Thanks! :D
Do you guys generally hear the god's voice in your head, sort of telepathically. Do you also feel the emotions?


Oh yes indeed. Not often of late, but Wepwawet is very good at letting it be known what He wants and likes. He's also very quick to want to share food. As in, sometimes it shows up, and within 30 seconds I get the feeling of "come on, why aren't you eating it already?" It's very amusing.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Padjaiemweru on April 22, 2010, 10:55:36 am
Quote from: gracesong
Do you guys generally hear the god's voice in your head, sort of telepathically. Do you also feel the emotions?



Some people do, some don't.  Neither is right or wrong, there are just different ways of communicating with Netjer.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Mesetibes on April 22, 2010, 12:09:36 pm
Quote from: gracesong
Awesome! Thanks! :D
Do you guys generally hear the god's voice in your head, sort of telepathically. Do you also feel the emotions?


I don't hear voices for the most part, but I do feel emotion in part with scenes from my life that convey the emotion or meaning of what the Names are intending to communicate with me. My Mother is also very fond of touch as well, which is felt by me as more of a presence of energy rather than an actual touch. It's the way the touch is presented though, in conjunction with visual imagery, that helps me understand what they're trying to communicate.

Others have different experiences though.

~Maret
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Kheper on April 22, 2010, 01:05:34 pm
Em Hotep

I tend to hear voices in my head, sometimes out loud if they're really trying to get my attention.  I smell certain scents (like a particular incense I burn in shrine), perfumes.  I'll see images or certain animals will make their presence known.  Also like Maret mentioned, touch.  Ever had a canine climb on your bed while you're sleeping, walk all over you and you could feel it's weight on the bed and your body? Yeah, Yinepu is a real character.


Senebty
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on September 29, 2010, 04:02:16 am
Is the water used in the libations during the Senut, (to the Akhu, Wepwaret, Sebau and Ma'at), the same as a liquid offering, or does it differ - maybe because some of it is for the Akhu? I'm only asking because I have tried to give it to my cat and my ferret, and neither of them will touch it. (The ferret needs to drink quite frequently, and was VERY thirsty by the time I realised what was going on).
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Sedjemes on September 29, 2010, 06:46:07 am
Hotep Jet and good morning.

The libation water is separate and distinct from any liquid offering :) I usually pour out just a tiny bit each time and then leave it to evaporate. And make my offerings separately at the appropriate time during senut.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on September 29, 2010, 07:02:56 am
OK, thankyou, Setjemes, that helps :). I'm so new to all this, that, even though it feels right to be here and that I'm "coming home", I seem to be making an awful lot of very silly mistakes! (My poor animals - they probably thought I was trying to poison them! But then, maybe it does go to show that the strength of my ritual intent was sufficient that the water was altered in some indefinable way?). Thankyou :).
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on September 29, 2010, 07:05:04 am
Sorry - maybe "sincerity" would be a better word than "intent". I didn't preview my post, and am very tired - husband is on nights, which is quite disruptive to sleep!
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Rev. Shefyt on September 29, 2010, 08:16:49 pm

I use the libation water to water my plants. They don't seem to mind. :grin:

Shefyt

 
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Qaitsenu on September 30, 2010, 01:34:21 am
I actually have a large white bowl in the shrine room specifically for mah felines, and I empty the libation bowls from my shrines (after enough time has elapsed) into the feline bowl and the cats go WILD over it.... it's the only feline water bowl that is ever habitually emptied of water.  ;)  

Felines appreciate the blessings as much as anyone else, I suppose.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on October 03, 2010, 03:50:00 am
In that case, Qaitsenu, my cat is just plain wierd :). (That would make sense if you ever met him!).
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Blissi on October 03, 2010, 08:39:57 am
Yesterday I planned to make fairy cakes, to offer to Ma'at and Bast, and had some new tea light candles to use, and play some music - and thank them for the help they have given me recently.

On my way to buy the ingredients I felt very excited, and as I sense things physically, my head got very warm as if to say " Hurry up cant wait :D "
So, I made these fairy cakes, saying - feel free to add your own flavour to them.. only, I didnt make them very well, they were too eggy :(  so, i presented them anyway and just ate the tops which were nice and crunchy, and made a nice chocolatey drink to make up for the failed fairy cakes lol

They were keen on the idea of cooking together though :) even if it went abit wrong.

As for hearing / sensing netjer - I feel things physically, If i am reading or hearing something useful to my growth, my third eye will tingle
If my goddesses are about - I will Know they are in the room with me - for example maybe healing, or partaking in a spell im doing.
Otherwise, It is usually warm sensations just by my scalp, and it spreads and gets warmer according to how much they are interacting with me.
If they want my attention quickly - they give me a little headache!  ( like - buy that figure for me! )

I have heard Bast -I asked her to visit me, and she waited until I was asleep, and started purring and there was a hot patch on my bed :)
The first time i made an offering ,she let me know she was pleased by shaking bells ( or sistrum) as a sign

Ma'at -I dont beleive i have heard her, but she leaves me feathers of various colours, and likes to mess with the wind if i'm not getting something shes trying to tell me ( like blowing my door shut with a huge gust of wind outta no where )

I feel happy / excited when they like what im doing,I think if theyr not so keen - i dont recieve any feelings, so i move on to some thing else.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Rev. Shefyt on October 03, 2010, 11:54:34 am
Blissi, I love the little story of your offerings. ^_^  I've also found that it makes Bast especially happy when I cook things for Her. In fact, just the other day I was a little short of suitable offerings, so I offered Her some leftover Chinese food, and She let me know that She would have preferred it if I'd heated it up--not because the cold food was gross or anything, but because by doing that little bit of extra preparation work, it would put that extra bit of myself into it.

(Of course, She appreciates store-bought/readymade food too. ^_^ The cooking/preparation is a bonus.)

Senebty,

Shefyt

Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Blissi on October 03, 2010, 02:21:08 pm
Hehe, I have only started doing offerings this year, so each time is different and new.

Bast really seemed to love cherrys? but this may be because they are my favourite fruit and they were so Tastteey.

The cooking really seemed to make them both happy, i cant beleive something as simple to cook as fairy cakes I failed at.
I think I need to take it as a hint to do more cooking >.<

Is there any taboo food for the netjer?
I read that fish was some were, but not all on line sources at that reputable.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on October 04, 2010, 03:33:27 am
I loved the fairy cakes idea, Blissi :).

I tend to feel Ma'at as a very subtle (winged?!) female presence standing behind me when I'm doing Senut. I suffer from panic attacks, but since starting Senut, I have felt a lot calmer and more grounded. (Other people have actually noticed this, too, as I seem to get flustered a lot less!).
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Iaityinepu on October 04, 2010, 04:09:41 am
Quote from: Blissi

Is there any taboo food for the netjer?
I read that fish was some were, but not all on line sources at that reputable.


That depends on the Netjer and your relationship with them.  I don't think there is a blanket taboo on any food.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Khesretitui on October 04, 2010, 08:06:43 am
My general gut feeling is that if you won't use it or find some ethical way to use/dispose of it, you shouldn't offer it, as I've said elsewhere, I think. They seem to really deplore waste.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Blissi on October 07, 2010, 03:39:29 pm
I am happy that Ma'at is helping you Jet. I am currently hoping she is backing a work issue I have, potential grievances I will have to be sending.

Thanks for the advice on foods/ offerings.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Denderah on October 08, 2010, 09:14:41 pm
I enjoyed reading your post, Blissi, as it really made me smile.  Your love for the deities shines through your writing and your enthusiasm to please them is most apparent.  Thank you for sharing this.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 09, 2010, 02:50:24 pm
Em-Hotep,

I cannot exactly recall where in this thread I saw it, for I have been following it on an off for a while, though it was mentioned that one can eat an offering of food or beverage after it had been offered to a named Netjer... I honestly feel this is very wrong; my personal opinion.  When you offer food, beverage or even items up to the Netjer or even Akhu, through the proper magic of incantations that offer has passed into their realm; into their dimension. If you were to eat that offering you made, it would be like taking that food right out of their hands; or even worse, right out of their stomach.  Even when you offer items up to the Netjer of an Akhu, it too has passed on into their realm.  So, to use or ware that item after it had been offered would be like taking it back from them.  In ancient times, in Karnak, Dendurah, Men-Nefer, Iunu, in what ever sacred temple you could think of, there were great storehouses in which all offerings of all non-perishable items were kept.  Food on the other hand, after a period of about a day had passed, was burned.  I myself, follow this same ritual: for all food and beverage items I offer towards the Netjer and my Akhu, after a day has passed I burn them in a small fire basin I have in my backyard; and as for items, like jewelry or perfume, I offer onto the Netjer of my Akhu, I keep in a decorative chest I purchased from an import store.

So by the opinion of my Ba & Ka, I do not eat or use offerings I have made to the Netjer or my Akhu. It just does not feel correct.          
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Tanebet on October 09, 2010, 03:13:45 pm
Em Hotep *henu*,

actually the Ancient Egyptians did eat the offerings.
Unfortunately I do not know the English word for it but the German term for it is "Opferumlauf", I am refering to an article in The Lexikon der Ägyptologie, Volume IV, P 596 f.

Offerings were part of the payment of the priests.
There is interesting article here: http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/display/?id=5499

May I ask where you read that the food was burnt?

Senebty
Tanebet
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: The Tai'awepwawet System on October 09, 2010, 03:53:53 pm
One of the reasons it's weird that we don't eat akhu offerings.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Setkheniitw on October 09, 2010, 03:59:33 pm
Quote from: Tanebet
actually the Ancient Egyptians did eat the offerings.
Unfortunately I do not know the English word for it but the German term for it is "Opferumlauf", I am refering to an article in The Lexikon der Ägyptologie, Volume IV, P 596 f.


I think the English phrase is "reversion of offerings."  Either that, or it refers to giving offerings to the Akhu after giving them to Netjer... it's one of the two.  I've seen it used for both.  Hey, maybe it means both :P

I consume my offerings, except for the small amount I offer to the Akhu which I put outside or (if I'm in close vicinity) in a cemetery.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Blissi on October 09, 2010, 04:37:40 pm
I have never gotten any bad feelings or signs when eating an offering, as i feel the whole point was to share some thing together and enjoy it.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Mesetibes on October 09, 2010, 06:31:04 pm
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Em-Hotep,

I cannot exactly recall where in this thread I saw it, for I have been following it on an off for a while, though it was mentioned that one can eat an offering of food or beverage after it had been offered to a named Netjer... I honestly feel this is very wrong; my personal opinion.  When you offer food, beverage or even items up to the Netjer or even Akhu, through the proper magic of incantations that offer has passed into their realm; into their dimension. If you were to eat that offering you made, it would be like taking that food right out of their hands; or even worse, right out of their stomach.  Even when you offer items up to the Netjer of an Akhu, it too has passed on into their realm.  So, to use or ware that item after it had been offered would be like taking it back from them.  In ancient times, in Karnak, Dendurah, Men-Nefer, Iunu, in what ever sacred temple you could think of, there were great storehouses in which all offerings of all non-perishable items were kept.  Food on the other hand, after a period of about a day had passed, was burned.  I myself, follow this same ritual: for all food and beverage items I offer towards the Netjer and my Akhu, after a day has passed I burn them in a small fire basin I have in my backyard; and as for items, like jewelry or perfume, I offer onto the Netjer of my Akhu, I keep in a decorative chest I purchased from an import store.

So by the opinion of my Ba & Ka, I do not eat or use offerings I have made to the Netjer or my Akhu. It just does not feel correct.          


See, IMO, this makes no sense to me. At all.

In my experience, Netjer wants us to live and go about our daily lives and Netjer also does not want us to go without. Netjer also wants to participate in many of the things we do in our daily lives. Religion and life should not be separate, as it was not seen as separate in antiquity. Given the very nature of Heka, the act of simply doing is usually enough for most Names.

Food offered to Netjer can be consumed so long as it's alright with Them in the first place. If They're happy with it, then why should it go to waste? Once They've recieved it, They've taken what They want from it, so They give it back to us for consumption. It's a way to reflect the cycles that exist that They have created.

Food sharing with the Akhu, on the other hand, is different. While Netjer blesses what we give to Them because it was in fact They that created it, the Akhu are spirits that have passed West. We the living feed the Akhu with our prayers and our offerings. They take from our offerings to feed their kau so that the kau can still exist. The Akhu did not create our food, so eating what we offer them is..well, innert. The spirit within it is gone.

Same goes for non-food offerings. If it's alright with Netjer that you wear/ share it, then it should be worn/ shared. For example I've offered chocolate to my Mother, and She in turn wanted me to share it with my co-workers. So I did. Turned out to be the best day ever at work.

Either way, burning offerings might be alright, but it depends on the Name you've offered it to. My Mother, for example, prefers me to "recycle" what I offer to Her if I won't use it. Flower and food offerings (That I don't eat and that aren't meat or dairy) get put into the composter, which I then use to feed my flower and herb beds. Paper gets recycled. Jewelry is rarely offered and when it is, I know it's not for me, so it goes to the person in specific that it's intended for. For them to wear.

To me, not to use the offerings that They've given to us is almost insulting.

But that's just my thoughts.

~Maret
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Iaityinepu on October 09, 2010, 08:21:49 pm
I can't remember my sourcing (will go and hunt it down), but in AE there was evidence that the food was offered to Netjer in the morning, and then at the end of the day that same food had some offered to the Akhu and the rest was taken home by the priests to share with their families as payment for their dedications to/care of the shrines.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: The Tai'awepwawet System on October 09, 2010, 08:39:36 pm
I do have a source, and idd, food that was offered to the akhu was nommed by the ka-priests (priests who were in service to that tomb) and their families and such.

That we don't is a purely modern thing, unless somebody has any information that the Egyptians got turned off the idea at some point?
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: ubenet on October 09, 2010, 09:10:32 pm
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Food on the other hand, after a period of about a day had passed, was burned.


even if there were evidence of this, wasting food is really not a practice i'd revive. your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Iaityinepu on October 09, 2010, 09:56:38 pm
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
I do have a source, and idd, food that was offered to the akhu was nommed by the ka-priests (priests who were in service to that tomb) and their families and such.

That we don't is a purely modern thing, unless somebody has any information that the Egyptians got turned off the idea at some point?


Hrmm I just went back and checked (my source was: Rosalie David's Handbook to Life in Ancient Egypt), and actually, you're right.  According to that book, Ancient Egyptians did eat the Akhu offerings too.  I asked Hemet about this (it's in the AtN Archives, a thread I started called "Re-offering of food") and she was the one that told me that the priests would leave a portion of the food at the Akhu Shrine.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: The Tai'awepwawet System on October 09, 2010, 10:40:07 pm
Leaving a portion doesn't explain why we can eat none of it at all. On Hemet's advice, no less.

Like we said. Modern practice. At least without a counter. (mine was Death and the Afterlife in AE by John Taylor)

I think what can be taken from this is, if you feel that the dead consuming the energy makes it unfit for you to eat, don't eat it. If you feel that they're spirit so they eat the spirit component, and you're physical/alive so you eat the solid component, and that's fit for you to eat, also fine (I suspect this was the reasoning behind the Ancient practice).


We are vaguely in the not-comfortable camp, so we don't consume it. If  we come to be okay with it, we will alter our practices accordingly.


~Isha
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Tanebet on October 10, 2010, 12:19:20 am
Quote from: Setkheni_itw

I think the English phrase is "reversion of offerings."  Either that, or it refers to giving offerings to the Akhu after giving them to Netjer... it's one of the two.  I've seen it used for both.  Hey, maybe it means both :P
 


Thanks, that seems to be the term
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on October 10, 2010, 06:41:46 am
Interesting thoughts, everyone. I still wonder why my animals won't drink the water that is offered during Senut to the Akhu, etc. I always trust animals for spiritual matters, so I give it to the earth now (hopefully not doing any harm!).
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Rev. Sema'a on October 10, 2010, 07:05:24 am
Em hotep all!

As far as eating or not eating Akhu offerings goes: I personally would feel weird about eating Akhu offerings for one small reason: the Akhu are dead, the Gods are living. Even though there is evidence that all offerings were eaten in antiquity, I can wrap my head around eating offerings to Gods, but not to Akhu (or any other non-divine spirit I honor, for that matter). I just personally don't think I can wrap my head around that. :crazy:

Senebty,
Sobeq
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Mesetibes on October 10, 2010, 08:57:24 am
Hotep Jet!

My water from senut goes in one of two places: Either to my cats in their water dish, or to my plants that sit around my shrine. So you're not alone in that regard.

~Maret
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: The Tai'awepwawet System on October 10, 2010, 09:37:20 am
My water from Senut goes out the window :P I do Senut in  my bedroom, and I'm forgetful, so if I waited to go pour it in plants etc I'd never manage. So it goes out the window (I have another roof right under mine) where it can trickle down into the garden and/or evaporate, which is fine for me.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Sobekemiti on October 10, 2010, 11:02:35 am
Just to be contrary, I differentiate between food offerings made to the Akhu, and food eaten in tribute to/because it reminds me of my Akhu. The former I don't eat; the latter I do. Food offerings to the Akhu are disposed of in the compost or the garden and not eaten.

But, say, the chocolates my nanna used to give me as a kid. I buy them when I see them every so often in the shops and give a quick 'this is for you, nanna' before I eat it, just to let her know I'm still thinking about her. But to me it's not a 'proper' Akhu offering, so I don't feel any qualms in eating it. Likewise, nanna's chicken dish. There's always a 'thanks nanna' from me and my parents when we eat it, but to me, it's not a proper Akhu offering either. Maybe it's the intent that differentiates it in my mind. IDK. But that's how I do it. I'm not sure of others do this too though.

Just throwing my 2c in now that I finally worked out how to say what I wanted to say. XD
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Setkheniitw on October 10, 2010, 02:58:14 pm
Water from Senut I tend to either let evaporate, use to water plants, or give to my pets.  My pets really like water that's been left sit a little while so it works.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Raheri on October 10, 2010, 08:04:07 pm
Em hotep everybody,

Taking the food items offered to Netjer and then consuming them was an ancient practice. Here are some sources that talks about this for the discussion.

Richard H. Wilkinson writes in The Complete Temples of Ancient Egypt,
Quote
All these foodstuffs were simply placed before the god’s shrine or in the hall of offerings outside the sanctuary. Normally after the god have been given the opportunity to take whatever nourishment or enjoyment he desired, the items sanctified as offerings were removed for distribution among the priests and other temple personnel. The offerings given to the deity had established ongoing life and stability for the king, and by extension, the people and land as a whole.


Serge Sauneron writes in The Priests of Ancient Egypt,
Quote
The food was evidently not consumed by the god. Only part of his incorporeal soul was present in his statue, and the god’s meal thus transpired beyond the limits of human perception, the immaterial spirit of the food passing into the divine soul without any apparent change in the arrangement of the offerings heaped on the alters. The offerings were then returned to the workshops to be divided up among the various priests of the temple according to a set ratio. The temple personnel thus lived on the offerings dedicated to the god, satisfying themselves with their material reality, after the deity and the privileged dead had had their fill of their immaterial essence.


Burnt offerings do have a place in history as well. Richard H. Wilkinson writes in The Complete Temples of Ancient Egypt,
Quote
The practice of making burnt offerings is usually thought to appeared only relatively late in Egyptian history and to have been of foreign origin - although a burnt offering is made in the Middle Kingdom story of the Shipwrecked Sailor, some of the offering scenes from Armana appear to depict burnt offerings, and there are certainly instances of this practice in some New Kingdom tombs.


Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 10, 2010, 09:44:10 pm
Thank you Raheri, this information was very helpful, and I am going to look into this more; it is very interesting to me.  Again thank you, and I apologize to all for my earlier ignorance. :)
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Iaityinepu on October 10, 2010, 09:57:41 pm
I found it interesting today, after we (Me, Neheb and Hefedu) finished Senut. We pour all of our libations from their small cups (each of us has 4 cups for the libations on our shrines) into a bigger bowl, that I then use for watering plants and the sort, after we are done.  Today, after the water was all poured into the bowl, Hefedu (19mth old) started annointing herself with the water.  She was putting her hand in the bowl and then touching parts of her body.  I guess she thought/knew the water was blessed and wanted to bless herself.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 11, 2010, 02:09:22 am
Em-Hotep-Rh'ekh,

I found this while doing some research on offerings and the such, and thought this would be a good place to share it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_offering_formula

I found it to be very interesting; hope it is as interesting to all who desire to read it.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on October 11, 2010, 04:38:31 am
Thankyou, Imsetra-Imsety - that was really helpful :).
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Raheri on October 11, 2010, 08:32:27 am
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Thank you Raheri, this information was very helpful, and I am going to look into this more; it is very interesting to me.  Again thank you, and I apologize to all for my earlier ignorance. :)

Em hotep Imsetra Imsety,

There is no need to apologize. If this works for you then do it. There were times when burnt offerings were done. The disposal of the offerings is between you and Netjer, and no one here has the authority to tell you how to do it. This information was put just to add to the discussion since some people where taling about sources.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Mesetibes on October 11, 2010, 09:14:32 am
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Em-Hotep-Rh'ekh,

I found this while doing some research on offerings and the such, and thought this would be a good place to share it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_offering_formula

I found it to be very interesting; hope it is as interesting to all who desire to read it.


Hotep,

This looks like a formula for the Hotep-di-Nisut, which is an offering made to the Akhu on behalf of the King. Usually, it's 1000 loaves of bread. The Ancient Egyptian Prayerbook contains two Hotep-di-Nisut, a shorter one, and a longer version.

Senebty.
~Maret
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Sedjemes on October 11, 2010, 09:31:32 am
Hotep

Here is a site giving some examples of the hotep di nisut offering formula:

http://www.reevans.net/egypt/hotep.html

Not all the examples were ever fully translated by the website owner.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Mesetibes on October 11, 2010, 10:00:29 am
Hotep Kai Imakhu,

Looking at both pages, it still looks to me that what was posted by Imsetra was a Hotep di Nisut. The wording is exactly the same in both pages, with the exception of Wesir being the Lord of two places. (The webpage you present names Djedu, while the webpage Imsetra presents names Busiris.)

Senebty!
~Maret
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Niheri on October 11, 2010, 10:03:46 am
Thankyou, Setjemes. That was an interesting link :).
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Sedjemes on October 11, 2010, 10:12:33 am
Hotep Maret,

I was not disagreeing with what he posted :) I have seen the wikipedia material as well elswhere in scholarly sources.

I always found those additional examples quite interesting and wanted to share.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Mesetibes on October 11, 2010, 10:16:13 am
Hotep Kai Imakhu,

I didn't think you were. :) The webpage you posted actually offers a little more in the way of examples from most eras. Both are still interesting. I was simply pointing out what I thought it was and where I knew of an example.

Senebty!
~Maret
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 11, 2010, 12:17:50 pm
Thank you Sedjemes, this link is very helpful.
Title: Re: how to dispose of offerings?
Post by: Shezep_shuty on April 26, 2011, 03:50:40 pm
Ok, this makes sense now. My original thought was to leave the offerings out overnight and then clean up the next day, usually leaving out things that wouldn't spoil. So it confused me when Netjer were telling me "Drink up! C'mon!" I'd take maybe one sip and one bite and feel awkward about it.

Finally they got the idea through my thick skull and now I say something about eating and drinking with family.

I often leave the curtains open after senut so they can watch me practice tai chi. I guess that would be an action offering? And Heru does not have to worry about me offering fish, because bleh!
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal