The House of Netjer, a Kemetic Orthodox Temple

[PUBLIC] About the Kemetic Orthodox Religion => [PUBLIC] Kemetic Orthodox Q&A => Topic started by: Sekhepenaset on April 08, 2016, 04:41:21 pm

Title: Death
Post by: Sekhepenaset on April 08, 2016, 04:41:21 pm
Em hotep everyone

What do you believe will happen to you after you die?

Religions teach a variety of things may happen to us after we die.   

In the Kemetic faith, it is accepted that we will eventually be collected into the Court of Wesir and depending on the condition of our heart, paradise or destruction awaits us (in addition to becoming apart of our descendants' interceding ancestral pool for the former).

But beyond this, what do you believe will happen to you?  Your faith may state one thing to happen but do you truly believe it?  Do you believe this will literally occur for you and your heart will be weighed in the Court of Wesir after death?   

And if you practice multiple faiths like I do, do you reconcile the beliefs the religions hold or have you developed your own perception?  Your question is, "well, which Underworld am I going to anyway?"

In my personal opinion, I think the myths surrounding the various religions I practice are metaphorical and a rip off of human constraints and desires. 

I think the only immortality a human can have is in the memory of other beings.  If you live virtuously, you will be remembered positively.  If you lived poorly, you will likely be remembered as such.  And to human beings, who are generally so socially geared that we become image-conscious, it would be a pleasure or a torment for us to be remembered negatively.  At least on a theoretical level.   

I think after I die, that's it.  There isn't a heaven or a hell.  There isn't paradise or endless torment.  There's just nothing.  I (however you define "I") cease to exist.  Hence I "forget" my mortal existence and the dark nothingness that results is from lack of conscious awareness.  Though I'm definitely open to whatever, I focus on the life I have now.

But I do wonder sometimes.  I had an NDE when I was a child and I saw the bright light everyone talks about and I heard a voice tell me it wasn't my time to die.

But, what do you think? :)

Senebty

Title: Re: Death
Post by: Temseniaset on April 08, 2016, 05:36:05 pm
I will go home to the Netjer and Ancestors
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Ushedimuti on April 08, 2016, 07:25:05 pm
I absolutely believe there is a life after death; however, I have no idea what it is.

Will it be the afterlife as Kemetics believe? Or Hellenics? Or Christians? Will everyone go to the afterlives of which they believe in? In that case, will my Christian boyfriend and I go to different places, separated forever? Or can we visit each other? What about families? Most of my family are Christian, will I see them again? What about atheists, who believe in nothing: do they stop existing entirely, while those who believe get their judgement?

I don't know. And to me, that is an entirely terrifying thing. I am terrified to stop existing one day. I am very terrified to die, so much that often it sends me into panic attacks.

I don't think I'll ever get the answer, so the best thing I can do is to live my life in the moment, and do the best that I can for myself, my loved ones, and the world. I guess it's about the journey, not the destination, and un-fun as that sounds sometimes. (I mean, life can be pretty terrible a lot of times, right?) I do believe in the afterlife, but I guess I don't worry too much about it until I get there. No point in stressing about something I don't have the answer to.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: rev. ubenet on April 08, 2016, 07:49:29 pm
i believe in an afterlife for many personal reasons, foremost being that i've communicated with dead people since childhood. what do you think is the purpose of ancestor devotion, if you believe there is nothing after this life?
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Subani on April 08, 2016, 07:57:52 pm
I believe that there is something, but I deeply, deeply fear that there is not. When I am in my normal moments, I very much believe in reincarnation, and I also believe very strongly that you can choose to not reincarnate, if that be your choice. However, when I am afraid, and when the panic takes me... then I feel this sense of existential dread and I fear deeply and completely that there is nothing, or that the Hell of my childhood will take me and that I am damned for all eternity, or even worse, that my daughter will be damned. Mostly, mostly I feel that this is not the case, but sometimes... Sometimes I do not know what to do, and the fear is all encompassing and overwhelming and I shake and cry and can't control myself.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Sekhepenaset on April 09, 2016, 10:08:35 am
what do you think is the purpose of ancestor devotion, if you believe there is nothing after this life?

Ancestor veneration is a part of both ancient and modern Kemetic faith but I might not apply the same context to it that you do. 

I had an NDE when I was a child and because I practice seidhr in Heathenism, I have been to Helheim a time or two.  In addition, the akhu divination of my RPD increases my suspicion because of its' accuracy. 

But I don't *actively* believe that anything will occur. 

If it does, it does.  I practice ancestor devotion because of my *personal* experiences.  But I don't see any real objective reason to believe there is a life after death. 

I believe that there is something, but I deeply, deeply fear that there is  or that the Hell of my childhood will take me and that I am damned for all eternity, or even worse, that my daughter will be damned. Mostly, mostly I feel that this is not the case, but sometimes... Sometimes I do not know what to do, and the fear is all encompassing and overwhelming and I shake and cry and can't control myself.

A lot of us have these issues tied up in converter's guilt. 

I also grew up exposed to a sect of Christianity that preached hell and damnation for non-believers and sometimes, I am overtaken by that fear.  I left Christianity, in a sense, because it bored me. 

Ultimately, I realized I only converted to Christianity because I was afraid of going to Hell and I had no desire to "worship" or love the Christian God because I found the religion boring. 

I remember going to a religious school and the pastors starting to catch onto this trend amongst the young people converting.  The kids weren't converting and getting "saved" because they loved God but because they didn't want to go to Hell.  The tagline of eternal damnation if you don't believe in their God and say the necessary lines will almost always result in some kind of emotional manipulation and false worship.

I think if the Christian God does exist, He will at least appreciate my honesty.  I'm not "using" Him to get to Heaven.  Which isn't a really honest position by the masses anyway.  The same could be said for you.

Jesus Christ was Jewish and Jews have never had a solidly mandated teaching about the afterlife.  There are talks of a world to come, Heaven, Hell, and reincarnation.  But those who do believe in one say that anyone can go to Heaven and if they end up in Hell, it's temporary.  Hell is a place where your "badness" or "sin" is burned off and you're purified.  It's a giant washing machine or therapy instead of eternal torment.

I remind myself of that when I fear hell and damnation.   

 
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Sopedheru on April 09, 2016, 02:17:48 pm
Em hotep!

Here's my take on life after death.. I firmly do believe in an afterlife.  My life experiences thus far indicate that there IS an afterlife, such as:  Interacting with the dead in a ritual way (other than Ancestor Reverence) and also Ancestor Reverence.   I've also had a few death experiences that support it, something that most people don't or can't understand unless they've had similar experience.

Lets look at it from a scientific standpoint.  Everything is made up of energy.  From rocks, to trees, to oceans and everything in between.  We are also made up of energy, it's what makes us move, talk, eat, sleep stand etc.  Each tiny cell within our bodies is powered by energy.  It then makes sense that our gods and goddesses are also energy, in fact the entire Universe.  We feel them, we hear them, we at times see them, we can and do interact with them.  Energy is within everything..  what makes us... well, us.. IS energy.  Energy cannot die, it can fade, but it cannot die.  It can go inert, but it's really not dead.. our physical existence is powered by that energy, and when we die, what happens to it?  it has to go somewhere.  Whether it be a collective, the underworld or as some would call the somerland. 

I personally don't believe in a heaven or hell, at least not in a Christian way as I've never been Christian.  But I think a lot of people shy away from anything relating to "life after death" because of the fears instilled in them because of those religious teachings being drilled into them from childhood. 

Here's a question for you... if we can interact with our Ancestors and the Divine, but don't go anywhere when we die and just become "nothing"... how can it be possible to venerate our ancestors or our gods?  I don't think  one can truthfully be religious/spiritual AND believe nothing happens to us when we die.. that would be a huge waste of time and energy on the part of the entire Universe and our lives.

I am also one of those people who believe in multiple spiritualities.. but, so far, as I'm learning from Kemetics is that it's not so different after we die, than what I was brought up to believe and it also supports my personal experiences with an afterlife.  Some choose to stay in that "collective" to help guide the living, and some choose to come back to learn more lessons or work on things that they didn't get right in their lifetime.  I also don't subscribe to the idea of sin.. that's a controlling and manipulative idea designed to bring about shame and guilt rather than learning from it and moving on.. or in some cases, wash rinse repeat until they learn from it. 

Just my $0.02.. take it for what it's worth :)

Senebty,
Brad
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Khamheru on April 09, 2016, 03:02:53 pm
Death it's very complicated. Take us to other place, care about us and make us return to the earth sounds really weird to me, and if I chose to reincarnate to this life, I don't remember when I did it, though. Maybe, it's very fast our passage in Duat.

It's a mystery, and even when we go to Duat, I thought it will still being a mystery that we cannot share while in Earth. About sins, I thought all your errors will be washed away in the other side.

However, if there's a chance to make choices before to come to visible world, I hope do it right.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Sekhepenaset on April 09, 2016, 03:16:13 pm
Em hotep!

Here's my take on life after death.. I firmly do believe in an afterlife.  My life experiences thus far indicate that there IS an afterlife, such as:  Interacting with the dead in a ritual way (other than Ancestor Reverence) and also Ancestor Reverence.   I've also had a few death experiences that support it, something that most people don't or can't understand unless they've had similar experience.

Lets look at it from a scientific standpoint.  Everything is made up of energy.  From rocks, to trees, to oceans and everything in between.  We are also made up of energy, it's what makes us move, talk, eat, sleep stand etc.  Each tiny cell within our bodies is powered by energy.  It then makes sense that our gods and goddesses are also energy, in fact the entire Universe.  We feel them, we hear them, we at times see them, we can and do interact with them.  Energy is within everything..  what makes us... well, us.. IS energy.  Energy cannot die, it can fade, but it cannot die.  It can go inert, but it's really not dead.. our physical existence is powered by that energy, and when we die, what happens to it?  it has to go somewhere.  Whether it be a collective, the underworld or as some would call the somerland. 

I personally don't believe in a heaven or hell, at least not in a Christian way as I've never been Christian.  But I think a lot of people shy away from anything relating to "life after death" because of the fears instilled in them because of those religious teachings being drilled into them from childhood. 

Here's a question for you... if we can interact with our Ancestors and the Divine, but don't go anywhere when we die and just become "nothing"... how can it be possible to venerate our ancestors or our gods?  I don't think  one can truthfully be religious/spiritual AND believe nothing happens to us when we die.. that would be a huge waste of time and energy on the part of the entire Universe and our lives.

I am also one of those people who believe in multiple spiritualities.. but, so far, as I'm learning from Kemetics is that it's not so different after we die, than what I was brought up to believe and it also supports my personal experiences with an afterlife.  Some choose to stay in that "collective" to help guide the living, and some choose to come back to learn more lessons or work on things that they didn't get right in their lifetime.  I also don't subscribe to the idea of sin.. that's a controlling and manipulative idea designed to bring about shame and guilt rather than learning from it and moving on.. or in some cases, wash rinse repeat until they learn from it. 

Just my $0.02.. take it for what it's worth :)

Senebty,
Brad

My approach to spirituality and religion is based on a certain amount of skepticism. 

I practice religion and spirituality because I want to.  That's it.  I find it appealing so I do it.  I am very religious or spiritual in that sense.  For some reason, my love or reverence for the Gods appears to be an innate thing.  Perhaps it's because I view Gods as having some secret knowledge that I don't have and I want to tap into that.   

But otherwise, I see no evidence Gods or anything else exist outside of the minds of human beings.  Sure, when you describe God or Gods as purely natural phenomena and they're mere personifications of those things then of course They exist in that way. 

But most people don't apply that entirely to a God.  A God or Goddess isn't just "natural phenomena".  People interact with Gods.  They talk to Them.  They pray to Them.  The Gods people speak about have personalities and preferences and those are collections of traits and constructs that apply to conscious life. 

What is divine/divinity?  What is a God?  Where does a God come from?  Why do cultures have so many different Gods?  Are those Gods manifestations of one entity or are They unique in Their own right?  Why did one culture discover one God and another discover another? 

Everything is made of energy but few things are eternal.  Energy is eternal but so is the cycle of change of energy.  Our conscious awareness is a product of our senses.  Now, perhaps, if we exist simultaneously on multiple planes of existence and the death of a body here doesn't mean the loss of consciousness entirely, then perhaps, there isn't such a thing as "nothingness".  But even so, personality is a construct of a brain and cognition which is terminated at death. 

How is it *impossible* to venerate Gods or ancestors without the possibility of believing in an afterlife?  I do it all the time and it's hardly a waste of my time.  Perhaps with ancestors your question becomes more intriguing because ancestors were once living people and if they became nothing, how can you venerate or establish relationships with them?  But it's not impossible to explain that off without the possibility of an afterlife.  An afterlife might not consist of a conscious existence. 

I believe there is "nothing" because that sounds most reasonable.  You die, there is "nothing" because there isn't anything for your senses to be aware of because your senses are gone.  But it's not a fixed belief.  It's permeable.  It isn't something I'd die by (no pun intended).  I'm ambiguous about death at best.  Like I said in my original post, I don't necessarily disbelieve in an afterlife but I don't see any solid reason to expect one to be there. 

I also know that when someone believes something and they are dead-set on believing it, they will create subconscious ways of validating their belief.

The concept of sin is one where someone does something that goes against the will of (Christian) God.  It's usually something that's immoral but what is immoral depends on the person asking.  And yeah, there is always the possibility of it turning into emotional manipulation.  In the religion of my area, I see that happening even if they don't realize it.




Title: Re: Death
Post by: Meresinepu on May 02, 2016, 11:48:51 pm
Em hotep Sekhepenaset

I have to say I love your icon ....The Black Cauldren has always been a favorite of mine.   

Regarding your question about death ....here's my two cents ...

I think each of us believe that we will see something specific that will speak to our ka(and that can be anything from the Kemetic version of the afterlife [for me it would be something like floating down the Nile with a few half naked Nubian men fanning me] or for some perhaps it would be purgatory, or worse, the hell and damnation that my mother has tried to instill in me even after all these years of being non mainstream....  Gods bless her soul.

While I have not had any NDE that I know of ...I have over my life time been able to sense spirit and the dead around me.   I have seen what the other side looks like when I have performed funerals for people (both inside and outside the faith).   

I remember one very particular saying that my mother in law gave me at the funeral of her son (my husband) ....about the mourners standing on the shore watching the ship sail off over the horizon ...and the next scene pans out to show the other side where the ancestors are waiting to welcome them home.   Still brings tears to my eyes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't know any of us that have the exact same idea of what the afterlife will be but we do have similar ideas and pictures of what we would like it to be and some have enough faith (for lack of better words) to not question that aspect of living life but rather just "know" that there will be a different place and time. 

For me personally ...life not does end but it does transform.  The universe doesn't waste energy   :)

Thanks for the post and all the answers that followed.

Senebty

Meres
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Senuwierneheh on May 03, 2016, 07:59:48 am
Em Hotep, Everyone!

This has been a fascinating thread.  Through out my life, I've been of two minds on this subject.  I can sense my Ba telling me she is eternal and has been present in several incarnations.  Meanwhile my logical mind, having been badgered a bit by atheist arguments, tells me there's no proof.  I find the research of Jim Tucker greatly comforting.  His book _Life After Life_ reveals the tales of many children who remember past lives, and he found proof that some of their memories do correspond to historical record.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_B._Tucker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_B._Tucker)

So I have hope!

Senebty,
Neheh...
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Sekhepenaset on May 11, 2016, 02:38:13 pm
@Meresinepu Thank you, I also love the Black Cauldron.  Gurgi is an interesting character to me. 

The afterlife definitely speaks to us all in some way but I guess I'm most afraid of people just believing what makes them happiest instead of seriously pondering the ins and outs.  That puts too many restrictions and limitations on experience itself. 

On a larger sense, I don't see the afterlife as something that I should be concerned with.  I should focus on the life I have now...like some people above have said. 

But personally, I'm not very fond of the idea of an afterlife of eternal damnation if I don't believe in someone else's God or practice another religion.  Methinks this concept is a form of nationalism tainting spirituality and is inclusive to only people who follow their tradition.

Thank you Senuwierneheh for your input on reincarnation-
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Asetzeresi on May 12, 2016, 01:00:36 pm
The way I see it is all of life is energy and energy does not die, it only changes form. Death is not a state of being, it is a process of transition of our true being to the next state...we aren't technically our living body anymore than we'd be our dead body. Our consciousness is not bound to our brains anymore than it is bound to our bodies or by our 5 senses outside of the experience of limitation for the difficult growth of wisdom for the soul.

There was a story I heard sometime ago about a foreign man who spent time with an African tribal group that had been secluded in the depths of the jungle for generations. They had adapted well to living and hunting within its depths. The jungle was thick and so their interactions amongst each other and the animals they hunted were in fairly close contact.
One day, a few of the tribal men journeyed with the foreigner to the edge of the jungle. The expanse of grassland/savannah that stretch out before them was immense. Something they had never seen and so when the foreigner pointed out the water buffalo in the far off distance, the tribal men shook their heads no, and were absolutely convinced that they were ants because they were so little.
They had spent so long living their lives one way, that their perceptions adapted to the senses in a unique way...to support the type of lifestyle that they were accustomed to.
The point of the story is to exemplify the power of our perceptions, which are based partially on our experiences and beliefs. As we change our beliefs, we can change what and how we perceive.
I have found for myself that my growth spiritually has greatly increased my sensitivity to different energy vibrations and a simple 'knowing' of certain things that have ended up being accurate, that defy what most people sense, maybe because they don't believe it or are not open to it in general.
 It has led me to believe without a doubt that there exists MUCH more than what is generally sensed by us and this is a snipet of what I think our awareness is like when we pass.
When we pass, we become MORE of our true selves, not less.  Metaphorically its like us in life, being our pinky toe, and after death, realizing we are actually part of a larger body, in existence, knowledge and experience.

I believe we move to a resting place-one of restoration, especially important to those that died traumatically or very suddenly. I believe that this place of restoration, more specifically when a person has freshly crossed over, can mimic the perceptions of what the person believed would happen when they would die.
 After restoration, our souls may choose to prepare for another life or we may stay and help those that do choose to go back. I don't believe that we are forced to come back and I don't believe in a place of damnation, because I don't put stock into the classical 'good' and 'evil' adopted by many.
I believe that there are multitudes of worlds and various multi-dimensional realities far removed from our understanding presently, but we become much more aware of after crossing over.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Suwadjsenu on May 13, 2016, 04:17:07 pm
I've spoken to the dead, and yet I still doubt the afterlife...

I worry that I'm making it all up in my head. I think either "nothing" is going happen: we die, and "we" cease to exist, OR there is a very accommodating, nice afterlife.

Regarding the "accommodating afterlife," I think that all souls go there to rest and be cleansed. I think it is another place, like a land from a dream, or another dimension to our world. Even bad people can go to this afterlife; I believe they realize both the good and bad of their lifetime, and must come to terms with what they've done. We all must come to terms with the bad and good things of our lives. If people in this afterlife want to reincarnate, they can. I think it's a choice.

I believe we meet with a "universal sort of presence," perhaps Netjer for us Kemetics. But I think it also depends on how people view the world, how the Universal Presence will appear to them.

I don't know how this would bode for atheists who do not believe in a Higher Power of any kind. I just hope and pray, for my mother's sake, that atheists have a nice, accommodating afterlife too, though I don't know what form it would take.

I think the afterlife is medicine for how we have lived our lives. We understand more fully there, and we have greater knowledge of the entirety of Life than we could ever hope to gain on Earth. We can reunite with our Ancestors/Akhu, and gain love and wisdom from knowing them. It is joyful.

I still don't know how it works for people of differing religions; I won't know until I get there! But one of my beloved dead is a Christian; I haven't communicated with her as an Akh, so I don't know if she will be in Netjer's scheme of the afterlife or another path altogether. Will I see her when I die? I hope so. I miss her every day. 
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Thomas on May 15, 2016, 08:40:00 pm
I'm not much of a religious person, but I believe that everyone goes to their respective afterlives. For atheists and the agnostics I don't have an answer for that, but being an agnostic I sincerely hope it's just a big rave with keys jangling on everyone's lanyards and karabiners (obviously with Deadmau5 and Zedd).

Back to seriousness though, I like to think of the afterlives as a really big house, each religion gets their own part of the house, but like many houses, there's a fawyer for everyone of all religions to go and meet their loved ones from the other religions. (ie all religions get their afterlife and people can still see their loved ones from their living life)