The House of Netjer, a Kemetic Orthodox Temple

[PUBLIC] Kemetic Orthodoxy General Forums => [PUBLIC] All Things Egypt: Ancient & Modern History and Culture => Topic started by: Bestekeni on June 14, 2017, 12:46:58 pm

Title: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Bestekeni on June 14, 2017, 12:46:58 pm
Yo fam, can we not keep sharing that white supremacist article about how the ancient Egyptians are actually Armenian? 

It was an intentional sampling error from a known Asiatic settlement.  It's like intentionally pulling DNA from the Chinese remains found in a British Roman cemetery to prove that the ancient Britons were actually from East Asia.  It's disingenuous and absurd.

I've seen several people share this and I think you all know better.
Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Shewhoseeks on June 17, 2017, 01:10:46 pm
Could you please explain this? I am a bit surprised about this - if it is the article I got in mind.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Tjemsy on June 17, 2017, 02:42:55 pm
What article are you referring to? I don't see a link in your post?
Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Khamaiyinepu on June 17, 2017, 04:10:46 pm
This one by any chance?
Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Shewhoseeks on June 17, 2017, 05:34:26 pm
Well, as Bestekeni did not provide a link I could not be really sure and did not want to provide a link to an article which maybe was not meant..

Indeed my first thought was on the subject to which your link points, napperdapper.
I did read the original publication though, which is more detailed and comprehensive.
It is a strictly scientific article so I was wondering about what may be white supremacist there or why to avoid it.
I appreciate the historic knowledge science may provide, especially by members of such excellent institutions as mentioned. Thus I wonder if I missed something.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Ra'awyserqet on June 17, 2017, 10:11:16 pm
Em hotep,

Tek, rightly in not wanting this article to be shared by people who know better, did not share the link to the article.

Upon skimming both the ABC article summary of the original Nature Communications article and the NC article I can see where Tek's concern lies. This article was done with the intention to get certain specific results, namely to connect/claim ancient Egyptians as a white community rather than the African community they were. Ancient Egyptians were predominantly Egyptian (aka African) with a minority of individuals being of various other ethnic backgrounds. The people who put out this article intentionally and selectively choose particular mummies of ethnic backgrounds to impose a racist agenda. Namely to claim that the African origins of modern Egypt are results of a slave trade.

I really don't understand how it cannot be clearer why this article is not okay. They took a specific sampling of a specific town in a specific area and time period in order to gain a desired result. The data is intentionally skewed with a racist agenda behind it.


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Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Shewhoseeks on June 18, 2017, 02:49:46 am
Did you ever give it a thought, that they worked with mummies stored in Berlin? And it just happens they had enough of that area for more study? They never went to Egypt.
In the article they precisely disclosed every single trait they discovered and they also stated, that the area was close to the Fayoum, which actually was inhabited by many of Greek Macedonian origin and later by Roman soldiers (which also were of heterogeneous origin).

Edit: nonetheless some of the mummies were older than Hellenistic times. It is clear to the informed reader though, that the sample is too small to be representative. That is why they announce further studies. In the end the whole thing was a study to prove that the method they developed will allow to scan ancient DNS.

I am sorry, I see here bias on your part at work.
Egypt is an African country and people living their lives there are Africans regardless of skin color or genetic origins.

That is the only thing that matters to me and I feel sad, that political thoughts are more important than knowledge.

Thank you for clarifying this.

Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Ra'awyserqet on June 18, 2017, 06:46:57 am
Em hotep Shewhoseeks

The article and data, due to it's limited study sample and use of generalization, is being used to argue that ancient Egyptians were predominantly white or white passing. If they were disclosing particulars without a racist agenda in mind, they wouldn't have stated the theory that ancient Egyptians became more African via a slave trade. They also would have taken more data than from a single town, regardless that it spanned a small portion of ancient Egyptian history. (The time frame may seem wide, but 93 mummies, in a single town over the span of 1,300 years is hardly a sampling of ancient Egyptians.) They also would have taken their modern day sampling from modern day Abusir el-Meleqor, El Fayoum, or similar towns in the immediate area to "make up" for only having data in a single town and compared the two, not major cities in Egypt. And finally, they would not have used their data to encompass a theory about all of ancient Egypt, instead of just one small area.

Instead, they took very specific data from a very specific area during a very specific period of time. Then compared that data to modern Egyptians who are not anywhere near that area. And applied that data to all of Egypt. If they wished to see a trend over time, there would have been different effort made to prove their theory. Namely comparing an ancient area to the same or nearby modern day areas and made a specific theory on that area's specific data. Or alternatively took a much larger sampling because Berlin and Germany as a whole undoubtedly have more mummies than from that one town.

If anything, this data is intended to be used to, once again, argue that African people, including Egyptians, are lesser than white/white passing and couldn't have possibly have been the empire they were or created the beautiful works that they did.

It's not a matter of politics, it's a matter of being a decent human being and reading their data as highly flawed and skewed. This innocent article is anything but innocent; it's intended and is being used to strip away the pride of people already marginalized. And even if the original authors didn't intend this result, they should have checked their privilege before publishing it and edited it accordingly.

It's not knowledge if it is an untruth.


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Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Shewhoseeks on June 18, 2017, 07:32:03 am
Well you read it that way and I read it differently. What American internet publishers summarized is not accurate towards the article - that is something US people have to solve. I live in Germany and thankfully have enough sources without that kind of information handling.

Theories are theories, they need to be proved or dismissed - by scientific work and communication - not by censorship because of a premade notion.

As I said the aim of those scientists was to prove the DNA analysis method they developed works.

Now... part of the theories postulated stem from other sciences (remember this is a geneticists article). Actually I am convinced this article was written having people with a high level of knowledge in the expertise areas this article touches in mind. Now it's up to those to do the necessary studies.

As a person who was born and raised in the Mediterranean area I can tell you, that Egypt is as African as the North African coast - and those are different in culture and ethnic development from other parts of Africa. There are probably some more areas in Africa with different ethnic and cultural developments from each other.

Does this mean "white supremacist"? No! It means mankind has always developed according to its environment and migratory potential.

So heck, yea, the ppl around the Mediterranean had always more in common with each other than with people living far from it.

And one more thing: you cannot deny that the slave trade in Arabic times did displace a lot of people. So .. If they settled where they ended up and mixed with the population there would be to me the most natural thing to happen - happens all the time, also with white ppl living in Africa.

But tbh I am afraid I may be loosing my time on this subject. Knowledge is never flawed - it is incomplete. Working towards making it more accurate is something I strive for. And the only one in the End who knows everything is Lord Djehuty.

Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: ZerediHethert on June 19, 2017, 08:33:59 am
Em Hotep to all,

 In the current political climate, one could posit that a possible intention behind posting what are inflammatory and divisive articles, could be to whip people up into a frenzy and to get members of a generally peaceful organization, to begin fighting amongst themselves. Thus a crucial element can be put in place to successfully divide and conquer a community.
   This is not a riposte aimed at one individual in particular; I don't know who this/these person/people is/are, nor do I want to know. However, it's good to question the motivation behind the re-posting of inflammatory articles in communities such as this one, and to also be on one's guard against potential "agents provocateurs" who could be deft and clever at fomenting discord and divisiveness, with the intention of dividing society wherever it may be.

With respect to all,

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Title: Re: Stop Sharing This Article
Post by: Bestekeni on June 19, 2017, 10:42:22 pm
Zeredi, I would argue that your post was more provocative than mine, as your attempted to hide an ad hominem attack in fancy words.  That's not a particularly good trick.