The House of Netjer, a Kemetic Orthodox Temple

[PUBLIC] About the Kemetic Orthodox Religion => [PUBLIC] Kemet Today - Rev. Tamara's Blog & Podcast => Topic started by: Raheri on November 10, 2007, 05:22:07 pm

Title: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on November 10, 2007, 05:22:07 pm
Em hotep friends!

I recently started to read a copy of The 42 Purifications: Meditations on a translation of Chapter 125 of the Pert-em-Heru (Egyptian Book of the Dead. With some prompting by my Beloved Lord Djehuty, I though it would be an engaging practice to discuss each of these purifications with everyone, and see what each of out take is on it. Hearing other people's reasoning and thinking helps us become wiser in our own thought.

Every few days after the topic slows down a little I (or anyone who notices and has a copy of the 42) will post another purification for us to discuss, to get the topic started again.

Purification 1
Hail Strider, coming from Iunu (Heliopolis), I am not doing (making) isfet.

For me this purification is quite powerful. It means controlling my behavior so that I am not part of anything that is pulling ma'at out of balance. By doing isfet, I am working against ma'at and Netjer. By working with ma'at I am becoming the self-mastered. I do this by being a calm, controlled, modest, wise, gentle, and socially active person.

Hemet challenges us in this purification to not confuse a person's being with his or her behavior. The old concept of love the sinner and hate the sin applies here. I have struggled with this concept in the past. I have hated myself for my own behavior in the past and have not been very forgiving of myself. By not forgiving ourselves for our past mistakes and moving on, we create isfet.

I know in my life, I want to live in ma'at. Isfet will pop its serpent-shaped head in every once and a while and cause some strife. That is alright though, because it helps me to focus back again to ma'at. I will tell you that there are days when someone does something or says something to me, and I want to rip their head off an put them in their place. But by placing the concept of ma'at first, I hold my tongue and walk away. I feels this definitely shows character.

I hope this topic catches on and everyone participates. I placed it on the public side of the Boards hoping that it will show a positive light of Kemetic Orthodoxy for those that come her to learn. There seems to be a lot of "fluff" on the public side and thought that are guests and community would enjoy something a little more philosophical and spiritual. Looking forward to hearing from everyone.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on November 11, 2007, 04:49:46 am
Em hotep, Raheri - neat topic!

One of the big questions in KO is, what exactly is isfet?

To paraphrase Hemet, isfet is the action of undoing creation itself.  We add to this by doing bits and pieces that can further the uncreation of creation; things like gereg, or lying (both in word and thought); and binet, or behaving badly (actions, not just words or thoughts).

Also according to Hemet, what really matters in these cases is whether or not we actually meant to do it.  So, to purposefully lie, behave badly, or to not choose to act within ma'at, all contributes to isfet; accidentally doing so, does not.

Choosing to act within ma'at not only shows character; it shows *good* character.  Kudos, Raheri!  :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bestekeni on November 11, 2007, 09:07:45 am
Just to play the devil's advocate for a moment... wasn't Ap_p's creation accidental?

Is the definition of isfet dependent on the outcome or the intention?  Is a malicious act truly isfet if it somehow leads to a positive outcome or the creation of something?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on November 11, 2007, 10:00:22 am
Em hotep Shemi & Tekini,

I basically see this as a way that ma'at is trying to correct itself. If a malicious act caused something positive, I don't see the slate as being wiped clean. That intent is still on the one making the act. Just because I did something malicious because I wanted to in anger, doesn’t mean if something good comes out of it, then I didn't do anything wrong.

On the other hand, what if I did something that eventually caused isfet. Kind of like the butterfly effect. I think this is really pushing it. Making isfet is something we aren’t going to do by accident. That is gereg, but not isfet.

Basically we are the only ones responsible for ourselves. What we do, say, and how we behave are our choices. For the most part, I believe that most of mankind isn’t out creating isfet.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on November 12, 2007, 02:56:36 am
Hotep Tek!  Yes, Ap_p's creation was accidental - but Ap_p and isfet are two different things.  It was Hemet Herself you said that intent is what matters with isfet - just do a search on isfet in the ATN forum, and you'll find it. :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bestekeni on November 12, 2007, 10:45:12 am
Yes, but many of the people reading this do not have access to the AtN forum.  And I did say I was playing Devil's Advocate.  Just was attempting to explore the bredth of the philosophy.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on November 12, 2007, 09:14:03 pm
oops - sorry, I forgot about not having access to AtN unless you're at last a beginner...

And yep, you did say devil's advocate, and I did get that - just advocating back atch'ya ;)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on November 13, 2007, 08:30:37 pm
Quote from: Senushemi
Hotep Tek!  Yes, Ap_p's creation was accidental - but Ap_p and isfet are two different things.  It was Hemet Herself you said that intent is what matters with isfet:)


I understand that intent is the major factor here with isfet. If I sat down tonight and drew up a plan for a complete annihilation of ignorant co-workers (I'm projecting a little here) and began my plan, then I would thus be creating isfet in that sense. Little things we do over time can create isfet, such gereg and binet. But since most people don't go around making isfet, then how does this 1st Purification relate to me in that sense. I may add to the overall isfet pool by some of my more inappropriate actions I have done, but how do I not make isfet?

The only answer I see is by doing ma'at. I can do this by doing actions that lift myself, and those around me. I can restrain myself when someone says something that really grips my grits, and instead of whining about it, do something to make that person I don't like my friend. I think that is a lesson all of us can walk away with today. Not everybody is perfect, and it is our responsibility to raise each other up. We are a religious family here in this forum. Let's take the words from Jesus and love one another.

Tomorrow I will make an effort to educate people when they ask questions and congratulate them for searching for the right answers. No more passive-aggressive Raheri.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 03, 2007, 04:19:16 pm
Hotep everyone!

Purification 2

Hail Hept-seshet, coming from Kher-aha, I do not steal (literally, "there is no stealing [in] me.")


To say that you do not steal has a variety of implications. Most of us can say we do not steal. That sort of "crime" is not within us. But by digging deeper into ourselves and our thoughts, we can see this action present. Plagiarism, misrepresentation, and (unknown to the cable company) free cable are all examples of theft. In fact writing about this purification, I have to be careful so that I don’t plagiarize the words of our Nisut (AUS).

Overall, when focusing on this purification, I see that there are things in this world that are inherently ours. Whether we bought them, had them given to us, or exchanged services for them, they are ours. When someone comes along with a total disregard for that, then chaos can result. What are your thoughts?

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on December 04, 2007, 08:50:23 am
Em hotep!

I just found this thread, and I think it's a great one! I'm looking forward to discussing all of the Purifications because there are definitely some that confuse me a bit...

Quote from: Raheri

Purification 1

Hail Strider, coming from Iunu (Heliopolis), I am not doing (making) isfet.
 


I think that your explanation of this pretty much sums up how I feel I *should* live to not do isfet... I say should because this one is a tough struggle for me. Both of my parents have terrible anger problems and stress out over the smallest things. As a result, my sister and I are pretty much the same. I find when I am away from my family I can focus more and think of Ma'at, but I live with my sister and sometimes I just lose my head. (I'm not saying my family is bad for me, it's just we are all so similar, and people with similar traits tend to crash more. I love my family! I don't know what I would do without them). So basically this has been a life-long struggle of mine... Since I have first looked into KO I felt like it would be easier. And I have noticed that sometimes it really does help to think of Ma'at and Netjer.

Quote from: Raheri
Purification 2

Hail Hept-seshet, coming from Kher-aha, I do not steal (literally, "there is no stealing [in] me.")



This one definitely is straightforward... Like you were saying, there are so many forms of "stealing." I feel like it is only stealing when it is done intentionally... obviously if you were to purposefully plagiarize Hemet(AUS) words then that would be stealing, but if you have read her words long ago, came to write this, and those words came to you yet you could not remember at all where you had heard them from, then I don't feel that is plagiarism. University's rules are different than mine though.. haha But that was just an example.

I feel like this is just one of those purifications that can't be interpreted that differently...

I don't have anything else to say about this, but I am looking forward to the other Purifications!

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Rebecca on December 04, 2007, 10:18:13 am
Em Hotep all!

   Thank you Raheri for this topic.  I am one of those seeking philosophy and spiritual knowledge and am fairly new to the boards.  So again, thank you.

     First, I'm new here so I'm not positive what "Isfet" is specifically but I'm guessing the meaning is along the lines of "causing harm".  I'm going to go with that but I'd love clarification if I'm off a bit, please.  :-)

     So as I reflected upon the claim, "I am not doing isfet", I felt the emphasis on "not doing".  That implies action which implies intent.  But I don't know about anyone else, but I've more than once tried to do something nice for one person, only to have it blow up in my face and cause a fight.  So did I just "do insfet"?  And on how many levels?
     I wondered if "doing isfet" could be referring to our physical and/or spiritual selves?  Is the concept of "Isfet" based on conscious intent only or does an absent-minded remark that I later realize hurt someone but do nothing to make right with that other person count as "Isfet" as well?  Are these two the same? If so, is it the absent-minded remark "doing isfet" or the fact that we did become conscious of it but did nothing to "make it right"?  
     In this regard I see a level of personal responsibility to  be mindful of our thoughts, our actions, every moment of every day.  But also to realize that to err is human and we will make mistakes but when we do, not to compound it by doing isfet upon ourselves by forgiving and then go and do soemthing to try and make it right.

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on December 04, 2007, 04:47:05 pm
Em hotep!

Isfet is basically the opposite of Ma'at, justice, truth, balance, peace, etc. I think Senushemi explains it wonderfully here:

Quote from: Senushemi
One of the big questions in KO is, what exactly is isfet?

To paraphrase Hemet, isfet is the action of undoing creation itself.  We add to this by doing bits and pieces that can further the uncreation of creation; things like gereg, or lying (both in word and thought); and binet, or behaving badly (actions, not just words or thoughts).

Also according to Hemet, what really matters in these cases is whether or not we actually meant to do it.  So, to purposefully lie, behave badly, or to not choose to act within ma'at, all contributes to isfet; accidentally doing so, does not.

Choosing to act within ma'at not only shows character; it shows *good* character.


If you do something nice for someone in your face, then that's not isfet, that's just bad luck  :crazy:   If you make an "absent-minded remark that you later realized hurt someone" then that would not be isfet. If it is something very offensive, and you do nothing to try to "make up" for what you did, I still don't think it's isfet because you aren't actually "uncreating" something. You just realized you made a mistake and chose to do nothing about it. Not good, but not evil, either.

Isfet is more on the concious side, because, as you said, "to err is human," and Netjer understands that. You're pretty much on the right track, because we all should try to be at peace with Ma'at and not do isfet.

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: TheDisreputableDog on December 04, 2007, 04:54:24 pm
Quote from: Rebecca
First, I'm new here so I'm not positive what "Isfet" is specifically but I'm guessing the meaning is along the lines of "causing harm". I'm going to go with that but I'd love clarification if I'm off a bit, please. :-)
One way I've heard it explained is... Have you seen or read The Neverending Story? If so, the Nothing is an example of isfet.

I would probably make a distinction between "cosmic" isfet and the kind of isfet that Purification 1 is talking about. Humans can't really combat cosmic isfet--that's Set's job. However, our daily actions in accordance or in discordance with ma'at do contribute, much like grains of sand make up a beach.

isfet is uncreation and is pretty serious; I think there are other terms for actions and words not in accordance with ma'at but not quite to the level of isfet, but I can't remember any of them--someone help me out? isfet is feeling like your Self is slipping through your fingers.

Have you read A Wind in the Door (Madelein L'Engle)? The echthroi are doers of isfet as they strive to unName the universe. Senseless, unrepentant acts of violence and deception with the full knowledge of their effect--I think someone who does not have a clear understanding of the effect of their actions could harm someone but not do isfet.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Rebecca on December 04, 2007, 05:29:09 pm
Greetings,
   Thank you all for the help.  I can see that I've got a long road ahead of me!  So, on to my next question...  :-)

   So when Tem rose from Nun and began Creation, how did isfet come about?  Is isfet a by-product of Creation itself, or do we even know??  

Thanks again,
Rebecca  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Herupaneb on December 04, 2007, 09:58:02 pm
isfet is the product of the Uncreated, or the nameless one. Tefnut spat it out while creating Geb, and spoke that it was not supposed to happen, and her Heka caused the Uncreation.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Rebecca on December 05, 2007, 09:19:39 am
Thank you so much!   Just goes to show, eh....words DO have power!  

I'll be more careful when I open my mouth to speak!

In peace,
Rebecca
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 05, 2007, 03:45:13 pm
Hotep Rebecca!

There is another version of this myth which Hemet (AUS) discussed with us at the last Dua (multiple versions of everything are found in Egyptian religion). In it she talked about the meaning of the word "Apep." It basically means "what is spit out." It refers to being accidentally created by Nit when she was speaking the Names of creation, by a drop of spit that fell from her mouth without intention. I guess the phrase, “say it don’t spray it,” would apply here (yes...very bad joke).  :eek:

The Uncreated is basically nothingness itself. It is a force that seeks to undo creation. It is strictly malignant and not a part of life or the universe. This is one of the reasons why the Egyptians celebrated each day being a new beginning. Apep was conquered by the sun barque of Ra.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Huyitu on December 05, 2007, 05:25:37 pm
Quote from: Herupaneb
isfet is the product of the Uncreated, or the nameless one. Tefnut spat it out while creating Geb, and spoke that it was not supposed to happen, and her Heka caused the Uncreation.


I have been trying my best to understand Tefnut lately and this bit of information seems to stand out to me. If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you tell me where you got this information from so that I might read it myself?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Miw_sher on December 29, 2007, 11:11:22 pm
Em hotep,

I'm new here and I'm seriously considering converting to KO, only I don't know how to break it to my family. How did it work with you guys?

Anyway, to get to the real topic, I have a question about the 1st purification. I understand it pretty well, but I had this complex situation with my friends where one included the other in our group by playing a little joke on her. The other overreacted, got her 'all-powerful' father involved, pulled some strings, and got the first in trouble with his superiors, also hurting his chances to get jobs etc.

The second didn't feel at all guilty, although it just made her popularity among the rest of the group fall dramatically. I took matters into my own hands and, using my position in the group as the 'counsellor', influenced her feelings until she considered his feelings as well.

By donig this, was I doing isfet? I meant no harm, only to right what I felt should have happened. But now I'm not so sure, and I'm worried.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sekhmetyanu on December 30, 2007, 12:30:31 am
Actually my in laws took it awesomely, my husband has been more then supportive and even my in laws are cheering me on. I haven't told my own family but they wouldn't understand. I come from a pretty big Roman Catholic country and my family already thinks I'm being brainwashed, long story ask me about it, so telling them about this wouldn't ease their worries.

As to you're second question, I think you did the right thing. I mean this first person was obviously trying the hurt the second one by getting her father to cause harm to this second person, which wasn't really right to do. Really you just made her think about her actions and made sure that she considered this second persons feelings. For that I salute you.

But this is my opinion, and could not be the opinion of anyone else.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on December 30, 2007, 01:18:45 pm
Em hotep!

Quote from: Miw_sher
I'm new here and I'm seriously considering converting to KO, only I don't know how to break it to my family. How did it work with you guys?


I found the best way to tell someone, especially your family, about something big such as religion, is just to come out and say it. I just made sure they were in a situation where they wouldn't have to leave so we could talk for a little, and then I just said, "So, I think I'm going to convert to Kemetic Orthodox." I dunno, it worked for me, but then again my whole family is not religious at all. They still don't really believe that I believe in this stuff... but they do know I am practicing it. Once I become a shemsu and all that, maybe they will believe me more? I dunno... but this isn't something you can really beat around the bush with, I found.


Quote
The second didn't feel at all guilty, although it just made her popularity among the rest of the group fall dramatically. I took matters into my own hands and, using my position in the group as the 'counsellor', influenced her feelings until she considered his feelings as well.

By donig this, was I doing isfet? I meant no harm, only to right what I felt should have happened. But now I'm not so sure, and I'm worried.


It doesn't sound like you did isfet at all... I could be confused, but it sounds as if you didn't really have anything to do with the initial act and you were just trying to right what your friends did wrong? If that's the case, then no you did not do isfet. If you did have something to do with the initial act, well then I really can't tell because I don't know the story enough. A joke can be innocent, but it can also be tainted.

I'm in a bit of a rush to go, but I hope that helped.

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Miw_sher on December 31, 2007, 04:41:56 pm
Thank you both! That puts my mind to rest immensely, you have no idea!

Senebty,
Miw-sher
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 31, 2007, 07:36:43 pm
I think that people as individuals can rarely do something that would be considered isfet. There are of course those exceptions, but overall giving advice on manners wouldn't be considered one of them. If that was so then Dr. Phil and Oprah would be up to the neck in isfet.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 31, 2007, 08:25:28 pm
Hotep family!

Purification #3

Hail Beaky-one, coming from Khmun, I do not harbor enemies.

This is a tricky purification for me. It calls on one of my Beloveds, Djehuty, from his ancestral home. Why is Djehuty called in this specific purification? Djehuty was the heart and tongue of Ra. He was the means by which Ra's will was made into speech. Since the written and spoken word was Djehuty's domain, then words spoken against others could be considered "harboring enemies."

We no longer live in a society where everything is easily defined in simplistic black and white. Things are more complex these days. Who are my enemies? I can' think of anyone I wish harm on specifically, or who I want to see unhappy. But are there people who I harbor resentment towards. When they offer me a "good morning," do I grunt and walk away? Are there people when I see coming to talk to me, that I turn and walk the other way? Are there friends or family members that I still hold grudges against for whatever past sin I feel they inflicted on me? Or do I see people out to harm me even when that wasn’t their intention?

I do harbor enemies at times, in my heart, words, deeds, and inaction. I will continue to pray that Djehuty can help me overcome these faults so that I can say honestly and completely, "I harbor no enemies," not even the ones in my own heart.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on January 14, 2008, 08:57:47 am
Em hotep!

To me this purification seems like one of the more straight forward ones.

Quote from: Raheri

We no longer live in a society where everything is easily defined in simplistic black and white. Things are more complex these days.
 


I agree that things are not black and white. Although, I am sure the ancient Egyptians didn't have just black and white, either.

I perceive "I do not harbor enemies" to be somewhat synonymous with "I do not hate." I think this supports moderation, balance, and ma'at. To hate and harbor enemies is an extreme and it disrupts the balance. No matter what we will always like and dislike, love and hate. But I feel that not letting the hate blind us, by not holding grudges, etc, is enough to fulfill this purification.

I think it's also interesting what you say about why Djehuty may have been the one called upon. Again, it makes me feel more conscious of words. I used to just babble all the time but as I learn more and more about KO, I am learning about the importance of language and words.

I'm going to continue striving for moderation and balance, and also continue to hold my tongue more when necessary!   ;)

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Caledvolc on January 14, 2008, 10:50:59 am
Hotep!

I am happy to to see this thread; I am always up for 'food for thought'.  

To me, the idea of not harboring enemies is one that encourages me to take whatever slights the day offers me, process them and then let them slide away from me.  In other words, doing my best to not 'harbor' those feelings.  

This is hard for me.  My family holds grudges and it has been an ongoing process for me to unlearn this behavior.  Some days, I am more sucessful than others but, ideally, while I may be angry or hurt by something someone said or did, I try to take appropriate action and let whatever it is go.  

I view the anger or hurt as a motivation for me to act . . . to vocalize my feelings or take some other action that resolves a situation instead of stuffing the feeling and pulling it out to chew on later.  It seems to me that this constant going over of past slights is the essence of 'harnoring enemies'.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on January 20, 2008, 06:34:28 pm
Hotep family!

Purification #4

Hail Shadow-swallower, coming from Qernet, I do not murder (men).

According to the text, this purification invokes Ammit, the creature which devours the souls of the deceased who are not True of Voice. Also interesting to not is that this purification is to be said twice. This ponders a question: why? It is so important to say this statement that once isn't good enough? Do we just need to make sure our words were not misinterpreted?

Accordingly it might also have a mystic association. Ammit's purpose is to destroy the ka, thus causing a second death. Hemet notes that maybe this purification is to help in prevented the second death.

Overall, I can safely say I have not murdered, nor do I have the intention to in the future. I decided to look up "murder" in the dictionary and was quite surprised by the definition.

According to Random House Webster's Dictionary:


Murder - the unlawful killing of a person, especially deliberate or premeditated.

So it is only murder when the law says you can't? It make me think, so how do I define murder? Is it murder when it is deliberate or premeditated? Is it not murder when my country's laws say it is okay (which opens a huge door of ethical questions such as soldiers, capital punishment, euthanasia)? I am not saying any of these is or is not murder, but it is something I have to think about and discover what it means to me. This is a very complex argument.

Much to contemplate. How do you feel about this purification?

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on January 20, 2008, 09:57:14 pm
Em hotep Raheri!

I always have defined "murder" as the act of taking away another's life... I feel like human beings never have an excuse to take another's life, both animals and men (unless it is to eat. Even then, it shouldn't be reckless killing where there is waste, etc). I feel that if I am to kill even a bug, I am committing murder... This may seem out of line, but who am I to decide that I can take the life of a spider or roach just because it is living in my house, which by the way was originally his house which man has built on top of? With that said, I still have found myself sometimes killing bugs because I panic and instinctively kill them before I can catch and release them outside.

But that doesn't affect this purification because it is speaking specifically about men. But with the previous said, I personally don't feel that war, capital punishment, etc can be justified. It is all murder in my eyes. The one thing that gets me, though, is self defense. If something/someone attacks you, then I do believe you have the right to kill to protect yourself.

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Claudia on January 21, 2008, 04:18:56 am
What a wonderful topic! I am only a newbie but I shall try to add to the discussion

Purification #3 - Good grief I hope I don't pass over anytime soon. I don't think I can honestly say "I harbour no enemies". I'm terrible for holding grudges. One in particular springs to mind. I met a girl in my third year of university. She was a pain in the backside but bubbly and chatty so we sort of became friends. As the year progressed she became more annoying. She would flirt with my long-term boyfriend, scream at me if I sat next to him in the car, turn up at his room at random hours of the night. Then she started to encrouach onto me hobbies. She would take over and push me out of the activited that are centred around my hobby. (theres lots more to it but I could go on forever!)

I spoke to some friends on a different forum (without using her name) about how to deal with her. She's not the sort of person that you can say "hey, you're really bugging me" to. Somehow she saw what I wrote and realised I was talking about her. She sent me text saying htat I was insecure and how I was bringing negativity around her all the time. I was relieved to be rid of her but now I'm constantly angry at myself and her for making me feel bad for so long. Then I feel guilty that it might be my fault, despite that fact that all my friends say her behaviour was wrong. Sigh, this will be a hard one to shake off

Purification #4: In my book, killing is only acceptable if in defence of yourself or your loved ones (this means countrymen too). However it doesn't cover those in armed forces fighting a war they started and are enjoying killing the 'enemy'. I think anytime where someone kills and feels some kind of satisfaction from it is murder. This could also include capital punishment. How many people have sat watching someones execution and felt glad? I'm still stuck on the euthanasia part. I don't agree with suicide but if someone is in severe pain with no hope of recovery then surely it's cruel to keep them alive?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Caledvolc on January 21, 2008, 06:50:56 am
Hotep, all!

Personally, I think that folks are reading too much into Purification 4 - the text says, specifically, murder and Raheri has cited the definition of murder in the post.  So, if we are talking about the unlawful killing of another human being then most of us should be able to make this statement truthfully.  While I am certainly a proponent of doing minimal harm whenever possible, I do not believe that this is what is being asked here. Rather, it seems to me this is a fairly straightforward statement with a straightforward answer.    

Now to me, the tricksy thing would be, what is the exact translation of the word cited as "murder" and what was the Kemetic definition of that word.  One of the problems with looking at ancient ethical standards is that we tend to view them from our own modern POV.  How did those of Kemet define "murder"?

I would love to hear some comments from the language/culture scholars out there :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: HehiAset on January 21, 2008, 10:11:52 am
Hoteps!
All interesting thoughts folks. Somewhere in "Ask the Nisut" you'll find a reply from her Highness to me.
Inter alia she argues that individually we can neither be Ma'at not commit Isfet.Individually we can"merely"(my word not Her's) contribute to them because each is the universal totality .

I am reminded for my early X'tian teaching at school
"First the Thought, then the Word, then the Deed" and of our KO Religious belief that the Word, written or spoken has Power.

On that basis I feel (but fall short as many do of achievement) that even a nasty, unkind,unworthy thought contributes to Isfet - whereas the kind word or generous/helpful act(provided it is not self-serving) contributes to Ma'at.

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on January 21, 2008, 12:54:54 pm
Quote from: Caledvolc
Now to me, the tricksy thing would be, what is the exact translation of the word cited as "murder" and what was the Kemetic definition of that word.  One of the problems with looking at ancient ethical standards is that we tend to view them from our own modern POV.  How did those of Kemet define "murder"?


I have no idea what the AE definition of murder would be - that's a great question!  Just IMHO, though, 99% of us can only define things by our own modern perspective, and I don't think the gods would expect anything else of us to be honest.

I also agree that taking a life in self defense/defense of loved ones including fellow countrymen (kill or be killed) is not murder.  Whether you agree with the reasons for a war or not, the soldiers out there being shot at to ensure our freedoms (and those of the people they may be fighting for in the foreign country) have to be able to shoot back, yes?  I find it sticky with the folks watching an execution and enjoying it - if the person being executed had murdered my loved one in some horrible way, I just might enjoy watching them die too.  Not proud of that fact, just sayin'.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Caledvolc on January 21, 2008, 04:08:53 pm
Hotep!

Just to clarify a couple of things, I was only pointing out what to me was a little over-thinking on the question of what constituted murder. I would be the last person to call someone who killed in self-defense or even defense of a person unable to defend themselves a murderer.  

The AE question about the definition of the word was more academic curiosity on my part than anything. It is certainly the case that we tend to view things through our modern perspective.  One would expect this.  I think, though, that, when we are looking at ancient cultures and want to examine a concept in more depth, it is often useful to try to look to the language and social norms of that time for clues about what was meant.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on January 21, 2008, 07:40:43 pm
Agreed, Cal - I hope my musings didn't get too carried away! :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Herupaneb on January 21, 2008, 11:48:39 pm
Hotep!

Legal system, morality and ethics of the ancients are favorite subjects of mine, and gave me a chance to do a little research.

These are some good links that involve laws of murder and justification of execution of death.

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/law_and_order/index.html

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ethics.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt#Government_and_economy

Pretty interesting. It seemed the laws were based on a common sense 'right and wrong' rather than strict legal codes. Most of the time the council of elders Qenbet or Great Qenbet where the vizier or Pharoah would preside over a court, where evidence was brought and witnessess were called. Often the god itself would be brought out by priests to render judgement.

Senebty!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on February 14, 2008, 05:23:23 pm
Em hotep brothers and sisters!

Note: I just wanted everyone to know that most of what I present here is my own personal gnosis and should be taken as such. I do use some sources from our forum boards, especially those in reference to our Nisut Hekatawy I (AUS).

Purification 5


Hail Terrible-Faced One, coming from Rosetjau, I do not disobey requirements.

This purification invokes the guardian of Saqqara, whom I believe is Sokar (please correct me if I am mistaken). Sokar was a netherworld deity of Memphis. Hemet writes that this purification is specifically referring to the importance of honoring the dead. She writes that “requirements” can also be translated as “necessary offerings.”

Honoring the Akhu was of great importance to the ancients, and is to us modern Kemetic Orthodox as well. We must give offerings to our ancestors to feed their kua, so that their kau will not die, but be nourished and continue to live. Giving offerings for me, is more than just giving food. It is speaking their names, remembering special moments, pouring cool water libations, and saying a heartfelt prayer. Occasionally I offer a nice dinner on birthdays, or other special occasions. I know that by doing these things, my Akhu are present and listening.

How do you give offerings to the Akhu? Do you do anything special? I would love to hear of everyone’s experiences with their Akhu.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Caledvolc on February 14, 2008, 07:29:44 pm
Em Hotep!

This is one of the aspects of KO that I am not comfortable with.  My father was adopted and my mother's people are in Great Britain somewhere ( she left with my father and never really looked back; I met my Scottish grandmother once, for a few hours, and that was that).  

The adoptive grandparents who raised me as well as my mother and father are dead but my relationship to them was fraught with control and abuse issues.  I am honestly not sure that I want to invite these people into my space after the years that I have spent unwinding some of the damage from these difficult relationships.  

I know the argument that the ancestors are not just those whom you are aware of but it feels to me like there is this wall, from those difficulies, that I have trouble getting past.   Add to that the fact that I have a whole set of biological relatives on my dad's side that I have no clue about and it makes for a pretty confusing situation.  

I would love to hear how others have dealt with this or similar situations.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Taji on February 15, 2008, 07:35:52 am
Em hotep, Cal-

I asked the same question when I came to the House.  I was sexually abused from a young age by my paternal grandfather who is now deceased.  And what I was told was that it was up to me.  That you don't have to honor an Akh just because they're an Akh if they haven't earned it or have mistreated you.  No way do you have to do that.  My grandfather is not on my shrine.  I did not write his name on a star to hang on the wall at Tawy.  I did not write his name in the Akhu book there.  And unless something changes, I don't intend to.

Senebty,

Taji
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on February 15, 2008, 11:18:00 am
Em hotep!

Quote from: Raheri


Purification 5


Hail Terrible-Faced One, coming from Rosetjau, I do not disobey requirements.
 


When I first read this Purification, I was not sure what exactly it meant. I felt, though, that the "requirements" it speaks of is in more of a general sense. When you say that Hemet(AUS) says it is translated to "necessary offerings," I feel like it is offerings to not only the Akhu but also the Names. Does anyone else feel this way?

I have to confess that I do not have an Akhu shrine... reason being, I haven't had any close family members pass into the West. Although, on February 3rd of this year, I did have an Uncle pass into the West, and I do plan on creating my Akhu shrine for him. Lack of time has not yet let me do so, though. With that said, I can't really contribute to this part of the discussion...

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on March 04, 2008, 07:02:33 pm
Em hotep!

*bump*

Quote from: bunji

When you say that Hemet(AUS) says it is translated to "necessary offerings," I feel like it is offerings to not only the Akhu but also the Names. Does anyone else feel this way?


Shall we continue discussing?  :whistle:

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on March 18, 2008, 07:08:46 pm
Purification #6

Hail Pair of Lions, coming from the sky, I do not distort speech.

This particular purification invokes Shu and Tefnut. These are two Names I have little experience with. I believe they represented air and moisture to the ancients. Water and oxygen are essential to life, and Shu and Tefnut represent the basics of life and creation (being the children of the Self-Created One).

By proclaiming this purification, we are basically saying that we don’t twist words or lie. What does this mea and how does it effect us? Just take a look at society today. When you thing of someone who distorts the truth, other people’s words, their own words, or who is a pathological liar; how do you feel about this person? Would you want to be this person?

A person’s character can be seen from what issues from their mouth. If I complain everyday about everything, eventually I will be a very unhappy person; not finding joy in anything. If I twist the words of my friends to take advantage of situations; then I will soon have no friends.

Speech for me is essential for life. Maybe speech is the wrong word, perhaps communication is better. Communication is essential just like air and water; like Shu and Tefnut. If we surround our bodies with distortions and illusions, the air becomes toxic and the water poisoned. Life then cannot continue and we will die.

May Netjer help me in all I do to be true of voice, so that I too may join the glorious akhu and be vindicated.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: AzebetAmunRa on March 18, 2008, 10:56:39 pm
Hello my name is Nuri and am now trying to wrap my mind around the concept that my actions can undo or help undo creation?!???

I have signed up for the beginner class but haven't heard yet whether or not I have been accepted so I am not sure where I would learn about this concept.

Please tell me more or guide me to where I can learn more. I am very new to KO but quite interested.

Sincerely,
Nuri Ebio
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Nebnetjeruiti on March 20, 2008, 12:45:54 am
Essentially, negative actions invite negative "influences" into the created universe.  The created and uncreated are always at odds with eachother.  Its like matter and anti-matter.  

To give a little background....here is how I understand it.....in the beginning, there was nothing but what we refer to as Nun (pronounced something like "noon" but with less emphasis on the "oo") (meaning "the waters" if I am correct).  It contained all of the potential of creation.  Lets say that Nun is like an ocean, and that the  potential of creation is the salt in the water.  Now lets suppose that the salts in this ocean suddenly started coalescing (as salts often do)...call that action "creation"....the potential being actualised.  So now we have a big clump of salt (the created world) lying in a body of water (the uncreated world).  There is some kind of cohesive bond that keeps salt crystals bound together, and similarly there is a cohesive bond that keeps the created world together.  Negative actions are essential a solvent for that bond.  Doing anything outside of Ma'at (the personification of truth, justice, balance, order, etc...this is the cohesive bond that I referred to) is like water dissolving away at this clump of salt.  The created wants to exist on its own, and the uncreated wants to return to a state of neutrality.  If we act within Ma'at, we maintain the bonds that hold together all of creation.  If we don't, we're destroying ourselves....slowly dissolving away at existence itself.

I hope this makes some sense;-)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: AzebetAmunRa on March 20, 2008, 02:30:15 am
It does think you very much... So isn't Nun a Goddess? and she had three children... How would the concept of creation and deity go hand in hand?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: AzebetAmunRa on March 20, 2008, 02:30:42 am
oops I meant "thank you"
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on March 25, 2008, 07:45:48 pm
Em hotep!

Quote from: Raheri
Purification #6

Hail Pair of Lions, coming from the sky, I do not distort speech.

This particular purification invokes Shu and Tefnut. These are two Names I have little experience with. I believe they represented air and moisture to the ancients. Water and oxygen are essential to life, and Shu and Tefnut represent the basics of life and creation (being the children of the Self-Created One).

By proclaiming this purification, we are basically saying that we don’t twist words or lie. What does this mea and how does it effect us? Just take a look at society today. When you thing of someone who distorts the truth, other people’s words, their own words, or who is a pathological liar; how do you feel about this person? Would you want to be this person?

A person’s character can be seen from what issues from their mouth. If I complain everyday about everything, eventually I will be a very unhappy person; not finding joy in anything. If I twist the words of my friends to take advantage of situations; then I will soon have no friends.

Speech for me is essential for life. Maybe speech is the wrong word, perhaps communication is better. Communication is essential just like air and water; like Shu and Tefnut. If we surround our bodies with distortions and illusions, the air becomes toxic and the water poisoned. Life then cannot continue and we will die.

May Netjer help me in all I do to be true of voice, so that I too may join the glorious akhu and be vindicated.

Senebty,


Before I came across Kemetic Orthodoxy, I always felt like words were... overrated, for a lack of a better word. I didn't think what you said mattered, because you could always manipulate things with it. Plus, words were just an invention. Unlike emotions which are true and definitive (even if you have mixed feelings about something, you can't lie to yourself about how you feel), words are nothing more than a "thing."

I now know that words are as important as the feelings behind that we speak of. I remember reading a quote somewhere.. I can't remember it for the life of me. Maybe it was on someone's signature, but I really don't know... Anyway, it said, "I know You because I know Your Names." This makes so much sense to me know, since I can understand that since words are our best and most precise means of communication, we must speak what we mean clearly. Otherwise, people's interpretation of you may be distorted, and that, of course, can create all sorts of problems. As a result, I feel that this is an extremely essential Purification.

I'm sort of rambling now, but I guess what I'm saying that that I agree with you, Raheri. Without air and moisture, life wouldn't be where it is today. Without words and communication, we wouldn't be where we are today. I sometimes like to think about the development of society, and basically how the foundation of all we have created--medicines, techonology, and so on--is communication.

Senebty
Angela
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2008, 01:02:13 pm
This was a very interesting thread...

But it seems that no new posts have been made for over a year. Is there any more?  I believe that purification #7 is next in line...

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on July 04, 2008, 02:23:29 pm
Em hotep!

From here (http://daily.kemet.org/2001_04_01_archive.html), the next Purification is:

Hail His-Two-Eyes-Of-Fire, coming from Sauty (Lycopolis), I do not steal anything belonging to Netjer.

I'd have to ponder for a while on that one.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: TheDisreputableDog on July 11, 2008, 10:33:17 am
Who is His-Two-Eyes-Of-Fire?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Yinepuwaret on July 11, 2008, 10:55:32 am
I could be wrong here, but I believe this refers to Wepwawet.

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on July 11, 2008, 01:13:17 pm
Check out the link, Dog. :) Waret's right! There's a bit of explanation alongside the purification, which might help kickstart some thoughts about it.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Naisenu on July 11, 2008, 07:12:44 pm
*Gives cookie to Waret* You appear to be correct. Did a quick Google search on this and found something from Hemet's Daily Devotions.

The Lycopolis also gave it away to me before I did the search, as that is Dad's Nome.

Quote
Purification Seven invokes Wepwawet of the ancient city today known as Assiut in Middle Egypt. The Opener of Ways, Guard of the Netjeru, is a very appropriate Name to invoke in this purification against stealing, particularly against the stealing of things which belong to Netjer.

One can also read the verb in this purification, from the same root stem as the verb used in the third purification, as "taking on." Therefore, one does not take on the things which belong to Netjer, whether they are physical objects or intangible expressions.
(Reference (http://daily.kemet.org/2001_04_01_archive.html))
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on July 11, 2008, 07:36:02 pm
Yep, that's what I linked to above, Nai. ;) You just have to scroll down until you get to #7.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sobeqsenu on July 19, 2008, 09:45:27 am
I always forget about this Purification - and it's funny that I do, because it is one involving my Father. Usually, when I read it, I pass over it, thinking it isn't important, that I would never steal something I have offered back, or anything like that. But I realize it is when I consider the meaning of the words in the purification, as Hemet (AUS) describes them.

If I read the word stealing as 'taking on', as Hemet (AUS) notes as a closer translation, this Purification becomes very complicated. It means more than just keeping what is Netjer's for Netjer; it is also about not trying to take on the perfection and roles of Netjer. I know that I need to remember that while I may be a child of Wepwawet and Sekhmet-Mut, I am not Them - I need to allow myself to be human and to make mistakes. I can't take the role of God onto myself, because I'm not God. It's also a reminder to allow Netjer to take on the things that I can't handle. When you read this purification very closely, it becomes a wonderful reminder that we need to sit back and let Netjer be Netjer, and let ourselves be human.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Taji on July 19, 2008, 02:58:51 pm
That's really interesting.  Out of all of "my" gods, Yinepu-Wepwawet is the one most upset by my borrowing something I offered Him in shrine.  He broke an amethyst I gave Him once after I tried to bring it to work with me (He has a statue there that it would have sat by, but it was Not Okay.)  Since that time I've always made sure to ask and He has said no to any borrowings every single time, except for once when He did invite me to wear a bracelet that is His on my first day at my new job.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: TheDisreputableDog on July 21, 2008, 10:26:02 am
That's an interesting consideration about borrowing offerings you bring up, Taji. I recently made necklaces in honor of the Bawy and Wepwawet-Yinepu, and as I don't have statues to make jewelry for, I made them of a size that I could wear them. And now I'm wondering whether I should wear them myself in honor of these Names, or make an offering to Them of the necklaces. As an offering, the necklaces would live on my shrine and I'd need to ask to borrow them if I wanted to wear them...which is theoretically fine, but I'm feeling weird about the possibility of the necklaces just sitting there when necklaces are designed to be worn. And I don't know if I'm making a big deal out of nothing. ^^;

In light of Sobeq's comment, this Purification is a useful reminder to evaluate what actually is your responsibility. Sometimes, you do have control over a situation; sometimes, it's out of your hands, whether because Netjer has plans or because of another human's actions. You can control your own reactions, but you shouldn't accept (or give) responsibility for the entire thing when you just don't have that power.

For me, that means not apologizing for things like the weather, or a friend having a headache. I say "I'm sorry" a lot for things that are out of my control. I may sympathize with my friend in pain, but I can't take responsibility for her headache unless I've really done something to cause it. I may regret choosing an outdoor activity on a day when a rain shower springs up unexpectedly, but it's not actually my fault that it rained.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Seta on July 21, 2008, 02:15:33 pm
Quote from: Sobeqsenu
It means more than just keeping what is Netjer's for Netjer; it is also about not trying to take on the perfection and roles of Netjer. I know that I need to remember that while I may be a child of Wepwawet and Sekhmet-Mut, I am not Them - I need to allow myself to be human and to make mistakes. I can't take the role of God onto myself, because I'm not God. It's also a reminder to allow Netjer to take on the things that I can't handle. When you read this purification very closely, it becomes a wonderful reminder that we need to sit back and let Netjer be Netjer, and let ourselves be human.  

[color:#993399]That's hard for me.  It's totally a trust issue, and while I love the Netjeru, I find it hard to really trust anyone, even them.  I do and I don't, it's really complex.

Now, I'm not saying I go parade around like I'm so-and-so, but there are times I do go, "Ra, this sucks!"  I'm not totally proud that I lash out at times, but I can't type that I am totally without pride that I speak up.

I feel the frustrating and difficult part is that things will roll in time, wrongs will come to justice in time, so on.  In my life, I saw little justice done on my behalf, and usually I was told that it was my fault to begin with.  That's not right, not for all my life's happenings.

So there are times when I guess I get very presumptuous and begin to tell the Netjeru how I see it and how I feel it should be done.  Perhaps this isn't so much a crime, but unless I'm mistaking the message again...

Anyhow, I thought to speak up. ;) :D[/color]
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: zarina on November 13, 2008, 08:50:57 am
i was scanning through and i dont think this was asked (though i could have missed it and i apologise if i did. :-()

whenever i search for the 42 purifications of ma'at. i keep running into the 42 laws of ma'at.

"The 42 Laws of Maat


1. I honor virtue
2. I benefit without conflict
3. I am non-violent
4. I respect the property of others
5. I affirm that all life is sacred
6. I give offerings that are genuine and generous
7. I live in truth
8. I regard all altars as sacred
9. I speak the truth
10. I consume only my fair share
11. I speak words of good intent
12. I relate with understanding
13. I honor animals as sacred
14. I can be trusted
15. I care for the earth
16. I keep my own council
17. I speak positively of others
18. I remain in balance with my emotions
19. I am trustful in my relationships
20. I hold purity in high esteem
21. I spread joy
22. I do the best I can
23. I communicate with compassion
24. I listen to opposing opinions
25. I create harmony
26. I invoke laughter
27. I am open to love in various forms
28. I am forgiving
29. I am kind
30. I act respectfully of others
31. I am non-judgmental
32. I follow my inner guidance
33. I speak without disturbing others
34. I do good
35. I give blessings
36. I keep the waters pure
37. I speak with optimism
38. I praise divinity
39. I am humble
40. I achieve with integrity
41. I advance through my own abilities
42. I embrace the all "

is this inaccurate to KO?

thank you,
zarina
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on November 13, 2008, 06:23:11 pm
Hotep Zarina,

It looks to me like a modern interpretation of the negative confessions. As such, it wouldn't be a part of what we do here officially, though I'm sure many of the "laws" listed there are things that many of us strive to do.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: JulieAnne on November 14, 2008, 08:45:15 am
Hotep Zarina,

I couldn't resist a bit of poking about,LOL. With a few word changes,this looks really similar to the 42 Ideals of Ma'at,from the Temple of Isis(Fellowship of Isis)in Geyserville, CA. I'm an FOI member also(but not the CA Temple),and I've seen some versions like this before. It's probably closer to their (FOI)particular interpretation than KO, but still similar in a lot of ways, I think.  :)

However, I haven't been caffeinated yet this morning, so someone please correct me if I'm off here  :grin:
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: zarina on November 15, 2008, 10:02:10 pm
when i try to do my own research i keep running into it. lol so that's why i asked. :-)

--zarina--
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: zarina on November 15, 2008, 10:05:05 pm
where on here can i find the entire list of purifications so i can lookie at em?

i cant find them. i feel like i'm jumping over it. :-/

--zarina--
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: zarina on November 15, 2008, 10:07:00 pm
i hate to keep posting. i found the 42 negative confessions... i this just what not to do? i think i've confused myself. im so sorry guys...

--zarina--
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: TheDisreputableDog on November 16, 2008, 06:11:07 am
You can see Rev. Siuda's translations with some commentary starting here: http://daily.kemet.org/2001_04_01_archive.html Scroll down to April 12, 2001.

There's also a book available through the Seminary: http://www.kemetschool.org/pubs/
Speaking of which, I swear I ordered it and the Nebt-het book ages ago and they never arrived; are they not being printed currently?

There's a list included in the Ancient Egyptian Prayerbook (http://www.egyptianprayers.com/) as well, along with many other things.

But...does a copy not come with the Beginner's Class materials? That's something I would think would be included, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shezatwepwawet on November 16, 2008, 07:36:08 am
If you placed an order for a publication and didn't get it, email them.

The beginner's class material is just the lessons, no book. You aren't required to have it, but I know a lot of people in the House have purchased it.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: TheDisreputableDog on November 16, 2008, 09:17:28 am
I meant a copy of the Purifications, not a copy of the Purifications book. :) Like, just the list, as part of one of the lessons. I haven't done the class yet though so I was just guessing.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on November 16, 2008, 03:20:43 pm
Since this thread has picked up again, let’s continue.

Purification #7

Hail His-Two-Eyes-Of- Fire, coming from Sauty, I do not steal anything belonging to Netjer.


This purification calls out to Wepwawep, the Opener of the Ways. We involve His aid in preventing the theft of the stealing of Divine properties. While this may not be a large problem in our Kemetic community; I can see how it was in ancient times. Stealing the offerings from the altar and taking harvest from the temple lands are just some of the possibilities in Ancient Kemet.

To steal something from another person shows a lack of respect. It is a physical way of saying that you have no respect for an individual (or institution) and that you consider yourself grater or above them. It is selfish and upsets the balance of Ma’at.

However there are times when stealing may be more in line with Ma’at. This is my own UPG, but the starving man stealing some food to eat, or a box out of someone garbage don’t fall in the same category. Since we are focusing on what belongs to Netjer though, these questions may be better in another more philosophical thread.

Another way of looking at this purification is that we do not take on what belongs to Netjer. We do not covet what Netjer has. I think what I find in this purification is that we do not want to be Netjer. We are children of Netjer and human. We are different and not gods. We are human and should be proud of that. We are the tears of Ra, and created on the potter wheel by Khnum. What more could we want?

Please add you thoughts.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djafetmuti on December 02, 2008, 08:32:34 pm
Hotep Raheri!

Just to split hairs here, I would think that it wouldn't really be "stealing" if one took something out of someone's garbage. I mean that is stuff that someone threw out and doesn't want anymore, thereby making it "ownerless", right? Just curious as to what you think.

ALSO...sometimes i offer things to Netjer like jewelry, and then i wear it everyday, occasionally putting it back in shrine, and then repeating. This doesn't fall into the "stealing from Netjer" category would it?

Thank you in advance :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djafetmuti on December 02, 2008, 08:34:23 pm
Hotep Zarina,

My understanding (and it's very likely I'm wrong) is that they are guidelines. And that we do these confessions in the afterlife to sort of "cleanse" ourselves if we HAVE done them while living, accidentally or whatever.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sekhmetbitu on December 04, 2008, 12:30:42 pm
Quote
Just to split hairs here, I would think that it wouldn't really be "stealing" if one took something out of someone's garbage. I mean that is stuff that someone threw out and doesn't want anymore, thereby making it "ownerless", right? Just curious as to what you think.


When I took a "Law of Evidence" class several years ago, we learned that anything you throw in your trash is legally (by U.S. standards) considered "abandoned property" and therefore it's ok to go dumpster-diving for evidence without a search warrant. So by those legal standards, it's not stealing. Don't know if this helps, just thought I'd chime in.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Nehwen on December 05, 2008, 12:54:17 pm
Em hotep! ::henu::

Quote from: Raheri
Since this thread has picked up again, let’s continue.

Purification #7

Hail His-Two-Eyes-Of- Fire, coming from Sauty, I do not steal anything belonging to Netjer.


This purification calls out to Wepwawep, the Opener of the Ways. We involve His aid in preventing the theft of the stealing of Divine properties. While this may not be a large problem in our Kemetic community; I can see how it was in ancient times. Stealing the offerings from the altar and taking harvest from the temple lands are just some of the possibilities in Ancient Kemet.


I've been thinking about this response for a while, and it includes an analogy I learned as a Catholic.

There was a concept we learned, "hiding your light under a bushel basket," or hoarding the talents given to us by the divine, rather than using them.  One might view this as a sort of theft also, but a theft truly from Netjer.  Yes, Netjer gave us these gifts, but we might as well have stolen them if we're just going to hoard them like some priceless treasure never to be touched.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that interpretation?  Better wording, maybe?  Just my two cents.

Senebty,
Nehwen

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on December 05, 2008, 01:14:27 pm
Hm.. That actually makes sense, in a way.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on December 05, 2008, 01:26:43 pm
Em hotep, Nehwen!

Actually, I kind of disagree... our talents are gifts from Netjer, and as gifts, they are ours to do with as we please.  Netjer may be disappointed if we don't use our talents appropriately, but I don't see it as stealing, myself.  :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Awetitu on December 05, 2008, 02:35:43 pm
 The 42 Negative Purifications

1.   Hail Strider coming from Iunu (Heliopolis), I am not doing (making) Isfet.
2.   Hail Hept-seshet, coming from Kher-aha, I do not steal (literally, "there is no stealing [in] me.")
3.   Hail Beaky-one, coming from Khmun (Hermopolis), I do not harbor enemies.
4.   Hail Shadow-swallower, coming from Qernet, I do not murder (men); [to be said] twice.
5.   Hail Terrible-Faced One, coming from Rosetjau, I do not disobey requirements.
6.   Hail Pair of Lions, coming from Heaven, I do not distort speech (khebet).
7.   Hail His-Two-Eyes-Of-Fire, coming from Sauty (Lycopolis), I do not steal anything belonging to Netjer.
8.   Hail Fiery One, coming forth backwards, I do not speak lies.
9.   Hail Bone-Breaker, coming forth from Neni-nisut (Hierakonpolis), I do not carry off the offering-bread.
10.   Hail Bright-Flame, coming forth from Ptah's temple in Mennefer (Hwt-ka-Ptah in Memphis), I do not dislike myself.
11.   Hail Qererti, coming forth from Amenti, I do not fornicate with minors.
12.   Hail His-Face-Behind-Him, coming forth from his roof, I do not give the wink.
13.   Hail Bast, coming forth from the shrine, I do not eat my heart.
14.   Hail Hot-feet, coming forth from the dawn, I do not damage myself with lies.
15.   Hail Swallower of Blood, coming forth from the chopping-block, I do not commit usury with grain.
16.   Hail Swallower of Intestines, coming forth from the Thirteen, I do not plunder cultivated lands.
17.   Hail Lord of Ma'at, coming forth from [the hall of] Ma'ati, I do not discuss [my] secrets.
18.   Hail Backwards-Walker, coming forth from Per-Bast, I do not babble.
19.   Hail Goose, coming forth from Iunu, I do not argue without reason.
20.   Hail Evil One, coming forth from Ity, I do not have sex with a man's wife.
21.   Hail Blazing Snake, coming forth from the execution place, I do not have sex with a man's wife.
22.   Hail Looking-upon-His-Offerings, coming forth from the House of Min, I do not engage in careless sex.
23.   Hail Heru-wer, coming forth from Yam, I do not terrorize people.
24.   Hail Overthrower, coming forth from Qis, I do not lead myself astray.
25.   Hail Binder-of-Speech, coming forth from the Inundation, I do not enflame myself.
26.   Hail Young One, coming forth from Wabui, I am not neglectful of Ma'at.
27.   Hail Shrouded One, coming forth from the clouds, I do not cause suffering.
28.   Hail Bringer-of-His-Offerings, coming forth from Sau, I am not spiteful.
29.   Hail Foreteller of Speech, coming forth from Wensy, I do not cause tumult.
30.   Hail Lord of Faces, coming forth from Nedjfet, I am not impatient.
31.   Hail Maker-of-Plans, coming forth from Utent, I am not an eavesdropper.
32.   Hail Lord-of-Two-Horns, coming forth from Sauty, I do not talk too much.
33.   Hail Nefertem, coming forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I do not wrong myself, I do not do evil.
34.   Hail You-Who-Leaves-Nothing-Out, coming forth from Djedu (Busiris), I do not revile the Nisut.
35.   Hail Working-in-His-Heart, coming forth from Tjebu, I do not wade in waters.
36.   Hail Ihy, coming forth from the Nun, I do not exalt my own voice.
37.   Hail Wadjet of the people, coming forth from Sau, I do not revile Netjer.
38.   Hail Nehebkau, coming forth from his cavern, I do not cause grief.
39.   Hail Neheb-nefret, coming forth from his cavern, I do not cancel the cake-offerings of Netjer.
40.   Hail Holy-of-head, coming forth from his shrine, I do not carry away offering-cakes from the Akhu.
41.   Hail Carrying-in-His-Portion, coming forth from Ma'ati, I do not carry off the offering-cakes for the children; I have not tied up the god of my town.
42.   Hail White-Tusks, coming forth from Lake-land, I do not slaughter divine cattle-herds.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sekherdjehuty on December 08, 2008, 04:55:56 pm
Em Hotep Nehwen!

I was raised a Catholic as well, and one of the things I love about the House of Netjer is the feeling that I can now enjoy all aspects of life more. I believe they were trying to teach modesty with the lesson you mentioned. In other words, don't flaunt your talents, rather than don't use them. I always felt that it was in essence more like holding yourself back, because it makes you feel guilty for using your talents to the best of your ability. For me, it almost felt like I was cheating myself out of the fullness of life, which to me is like "stealing" the most important offering we can make: living life in honor of Netjer and their many blessings!

Senebty,
Vinnie
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: kathleen on December 09, 2008, 01:22:01 am
may i ask- Who is the "Swallower of blood" mentioned in Purification 15?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tanebet on December 09, 2008, 01:32:21 am
Quote from: kathleen
may i ask- Who is the "Swallower of blood" mentioned in Purification 15?


Quote
It is tempting, although far from secure, to translate the protector of this invocation as a form of Sekhmet. The "Swallower of Blood" is being asked to verify that the speaker has not committed usury with grain (hennuwit).
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: kathleen on December 09, 2008, 10:05:00 pm
yes, i was wondering if it might be Sekhmet, but i certainly didn't want to presume!!!  so that's why i asked.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Biscotti on December 18, 2009, 05:07:33 am
I know this topic hasn't been posted in for roughly a year, but it's a really interesting discussion to read, and I was wondering if anybody would be interested in continuing the discussion.

:grin: Not stomping my foot and demanding a continuation, of course. Just querying, as I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 24, 2009, 06:54:10 pm
Purification #8

Hail Fiery One, coming forth backwards, I do not speak lies.


In this purification, we call on the Eye of Ra, the cobra. The cobra protects Kemet, the gods, and our Nisut Hekatawy I (AUS). It does this by spitting out its fiery venom.
 
The one who wears the cobra can act as Ma’at herself, thus seeing through lies. This specific cobra is the one which sits on the head of Wesir Himself. Thus we are stating to the one who sees through lies at our own judgment. At that judgment we will not be able to hide behind our own lies when questioned by the Great God.

So the question is, are we ready? Can we “honestly” say we speak no lies? Can we stand before the one who sees us as we are and make this proclamation? I know that at this point I my life, I cannot. This is a flaw which requires me to act. I am not perfect, but do I tell lies to those I love to save them form the harsh reality of the truth that I think I see? DO I tell my friends that juicy gossip I heard when I have no way to back up if it is true? Or do I let those little white lies slowly build up. I see myself as an honest man, but I still feel very uncomfortable walking up to my Father, the Foremost of the Westerners, and saying, “I do not speak lies.”
Senebty,

Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Aashemmuti on December 24, 2009, 07:01:25 pm
I do not feel ready to make a lot of these declarations; I feel that in various ways my life is far from pure! It is difficult because there are so many ways to do small wrongs, even if one does not outright lie, cheat or steal. But I am trying to improve so when I pass West I will hopefully be able to make these statements in truth.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 25, 2009, 12:00:50 pm
Quote from: FernGreen
I do not feel ready to make a lot of these declarations; I feel that in various ways my life is far from pure! It is difficult because there are so many ways to do small wrongs, even if one does not outright lie, cheat or steal. But I am trying to improve so when I pass West I will hopefully be able to make these statements in truth.


One thing to remember about these purifications is that they were basically spells to trick the gods into gaining enterance to the afterlife. They are high standards and something to strive for, but not commandments or "if you do this you will be a tastey treat for Ammit" sort of thing.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on December 27, 2009, 05:42:12 pm
Quote from: Raheri
One thing to remember about these purifications is that they were basically spells to trick the gods into gaining enterance to the afterlife. They are high standards and something to strive for, but not commandments or "if you do this you will be a tastey treat for Ammit" sort of thing.


While I agree with the "they are not commandments" thing, I kind of take offense at saying they're spells to "trick" the Gods into gaining entrance into the afterlife.

I remember, at one point, being told that the Purifications are very powerful heka, used to purify the soul. We go through the Purifications and our souls are transformed into purer souls, then we are judged by that resulting soul. The Purifications are powerful heka, but I do believe that there are some acts that they will not "erase". But Netjer always sees the result and will judge us based on that. There's no "trickery" involved.

But that's just my opinion. :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Menemaset on December 27, 2009, 06:05:00 pm
Em hotep, all! :D

Quote from: amethystfirefly
Quote from: Raheri
One thing to remember about these purifications is that they were basically spells to trick the gods into gaining enterance to the afterlife. They are high standards and something to strive for, but not commandments or "if you do this you will be a tastey treat for Ammit" sort of thing.


While I agree with the "they are not commandments" thing, I kind of take offense at saying they're spells to "trick" the Gods into gaining entrance into the afterlife.


I'm definitely not a scholar, but to my knowledge that was more or less their usage. It gave peace of mind to those paying the ridiculous amount of money to buy the Book of the Dead/Going Forth By Day that when they reached that specific moment of their afterlife, they would be able to use these spells to atone for some of the bad things they may have done in their lifetime.

I know that there are some people running around here that are really well-versed in these matters and I think it'd be great for more input. :)

Senebty,

Coty
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bastmuttepta on December 27, 2009, 06:48:22 pm
Quote from: Coty
Em hotep, all! :D

Quote from: amethystfirefly
Quote from: Raheri
One thing to remember about these purifications is that they were basically spells to trick the gods into gaining enterance to the afterlife. They are high standards and something to strive for, but not commandments or "if you do this you will be a tastey treat for Ammit" sort of thing.


While I agree with the "they are not commandments" thing, I kind of take offense at saying they're spells to "trick" the Gods into gaining entrance into the afterlife.


I'm definitely not a scholar, but to my knowledge that was more or less their usage. It gave peace of mind to those paying the ridiculous amount of money to buy the Book of the Dead/Going Forth By Day that when they reached that specific moment of their afterlife, they would be able to use these spells to atone for some of the bad things they may have done in their lifetime.


Em hotep,

I agree with this statement. I think the separation needs to be made, however, between the intent of the individuals who were utilizing their papyrus and the actual effect of the recitation of the purifications. So, as an individual's intent, as you said, would be to pay the outrageous amount of money to be assured that no matter what ills they may have committed in life they would surely pass judgment, that doesn't necessarily mean that they will succeed at that task. Though the individual may be trying to "cheat" their way in, I think the utility of the purifications were just that- to purify the individual of any wrongdoings they may had committed, though not without exception in extreme cases.

So, in essence, I'm pretty much agreeing with both ideas- the separation occurs in defining which perspective/situation they apply to (individual's intent vs. the actual effect).

Senebty,

Laura
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Meresinepu on December 27, 2009, 07:19:34 pm
Em hotep all *henu*

Thank you for bringing this back up.  It gives me something to continue to think about (purity).  

Senebty!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on January 04, 2010, 02:47:54 pm
I would LOVE to see this discussion continued! I have read the 42 purifications, and have been somewhat lost as to what *exactly* they mean, so this conversation is invaluable to me!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Mehetibeminpu on January 08, 2010, 07:50:12 am
Em hotep,

You know, I always understood that having a copy of the Chapters in one's tomb was simply something the educated and wealthy did as a choice.  Remember, most of the population wasn't even able to read so it wouldn't have been of much use to them as far as a tool to pass thru the mysteries and tests on the way West.  (Common folk usually had a few spells written on the linen they were wrapped in, if anything, and they trusted the scibes/priests to give them the appropriate ones, because they couldn't tell what it said.)

Mostly I think of it as insurance....the psychological kind.  Netjer is not going to stop a pure soul from the West because you don't recite a spell or purification letter perfect.  

I also think of the book, in general, and the purifications, in particular, as a guide for the living, rather than the dead.  If we haven't lead a good and pure life, no amount of memorization or tricky magic will get us to the West.  Our heart will tell on us.....

At the weighing of the heart the deceased says:  “O my heart which I had from my mother! O my heart of my different ages! Do not stand up as a witness against me, do not be opposed to me in the tribunal…Go forth to the happy place (Paradise) whereto we speed…Do not tell lies about me in the presence of the god.”

For me this means that ultimately, it is our heart which decides where we go, not anything which we have memorized.

YMMV, tho  lol

Mehet
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on January 08, 2010, 12:04:24 pm
Mehetibeminpu:
I also think of the book, in general, and the purifications, in particular, as a guide for the living, rather than the dead.
Ara:
I know me too! That's why I'd like to know more about it. I'd like to try to use it in the sense it's presented in Tamaras prayerbook....so I'd like to know who the titles address, mostly.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on January 08, 2010, 08:33:43 pm
Purification #9

Hail Bone-Breaker, coming forth from Neni-nisut (Hierakonpolis), I do not carry off the offering bread.

After reading this purification I got the biggest bad feeling from this, along the types of this would be so not good.” Not only that, but ticking of Heru-wer isn’t my idea of fun. I get that scary big brother vibe from Him. Plus using this nickname makes Him sound a bit like a bully I knew in grade school.

This is another purification dealing with theft. This one specifically names taking the offering bread or temple offerings. This purification does not imply that we shouldn’t eat from the food offered to Netjer. It means that we should offer what we have to Netjer first, before we consume it ourselves. It helps to promote the act of thankfulness for what we have. So many in our world today have very little, including some of our family here.

It is important to realize that all we have is a blessing from the Netjeru, including our Temple family. I think this is very important for us to remember right now. We ARE family. We ARE the children of Netjer. We will always prevail.

Tonight, I am going to shrine and thank Netjer for all I have. I am thankful for my family and friends, for my job, for a happy pug, and for my temple family. I think Heru-wer would appreciate this and leave my bones intact.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Mehetibeminpu on January 09, 2010, 05:22:35 pm
Hotep Ara,

Yea, I learned a lot from Nisut's (AUS) writings on the purifications.  I'm not sure who all the titles address either.  And I actually never thought much about that.  heh  For me it's just all God and I'll be trembling and looking down.  lol

Another good wisdom text is The Instructions of Ptah Hotep.  If you haven't seen those, you might want to.  There are a bunch of web sources of various translations which makes them easy to find.  (  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=km5&ei=CQ9JS8DSFILONcuuwdkK&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAgQBSgA&q=the+instructions+of+ptah+hotep&spell=1 )

:)  Senebty!
Mehet
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on January 16, 2010, 06:02:13 pm
Purification #10

Hail Bright-Flame, coming forth from Ptah’s temple in Mennefer, I do not dislike myself.


All I can say is just look at how simple this statement is, and how much meaning it conveys. It is incredible and extremely powerful. In this purification we call on Sekhmet, the beloved wife of Ptah. Sekhmet is a beautiful Name who can show us what self-love is.

How often to we say things about ourselves which degrade us, and make us dislike ourselves? How many of us can look into that me and tell that person that you love them. If you can, then I envy you. Many times in my life I have not liked the person I am. I could go on and on about the punishments I have inflicted on myself in my life because I thought I was a horrible being. Thanks to Netjer, especially Wesir and Aset, I can say I like myself. I am proud of the man I have become. Am I perfect? No. Do I need work? Of course. Striving to achieve to be the best person you can be is a daily exercise. It is something we should constantly strive for.

I thank Sekhmet for her power of purification. I pray that she makes me pure, and that she drives out all self-pity and self-disgust. I have an activity for all of us to do. Tonight I am going to look into the mirror. I am going to talk to that person on the other side. I am going to tell Raheri that I love him just the way he is, and how loved he is by God. Try this purification exercise.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Mehetibeminpu on January 17, 2010, 08:46:53 am
Thank you for this Raheri.  It is a good message and came at a good time for me.

((Raheri))

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tahai on January 17, 2010, 02:05:24 pm
I used to not like myself at all.  I didn't feel deserving of much. I hated my lack of willpower. I hated my body. I was afraid of success. I was afraid of failure.  I became an alcoholic, and embraced the destructive behaviors that go along with it. I constantly railed at myself and God because I was such a failure.  

Then Bast found me, and I realized I wasn't alone.  I started making small changes in my life.  Then I found the House, and learned about Zep-tepi.  I embraced that philosophy fully, and began to make more changes.    

Between my own actions, my Gods, and the community here, I have learned to like who I am.  Whenever I start to slide back into self recriminations, I just remind myself that I am a work in progress, and things take time.  My life has done a 180.

Thanks, Raheri for bringing up this Purification.  It has reminded me of how far I've come.  Best wishes to you overcoming your demons.

Blessings and Senebty,

Tahai

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: TabauAmunet on January 17, 2010, 04:56:01 pm
mHtp Raheri!

Quote from: Raheri
I am going to talk to that person on the other side. I am going to tell Raheri that I love him just the way he is, and how loved he is by God. Try this purification exercise.

*hugs* Thanks for posting this! It's hard, but I need to learn to do better with this Purification, and that seems like a very simple stepping-stone to start with.

Snbtj!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on January 17, 2010, 09:01:41 pm
Thank you, Raheri. Sometimes this simple statement can be so easy to forget.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tobi on January 19, 2010, 05:12:26 pm
That's quite a powerful message, Raheri. I would say that would be the purification that I fail at the most. I've found that no matter the circumstances, I can never say that I love myself. I have a hard time accepting who I am, there's always someone telling me in my head that I should be better than what I am or that I'm just a complete failure. It's a hurdle that sometimes, I don't think I'll ever actually get over.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Maretemheqat on January 20, 2010, 10:16:09 am
Very well said Raheri, and thank you for bringing this up for me.
I've been working on the Hethert drawing now for the last week, and hoping that as I discover her, I can learn to take into myself the aspects of Her which I need.
Sekhmet is definately an aspect of Hethert, so I hope that I can do right by them both through this. I'm slowly starting to learn to be less intimidated by Sekhmet.

~Maret
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on January 21, 2010, 10:59:26 am
There are times where I feel I am a chaotic clashing of base impulses without meaning or purpose. I feel adrift, without direction, and I despair for the state of my human condition.

In my own practice, I try not to shy away from these feelings. Rather than reject them, I follow them through to their roots. I sink into the dark earth, intuitively feeling for those roots, blindly following the roots of self-loathing until I find the knot. The place where what once started out as the pure impulse of life itself got tied up and hopelessly complicated.

I try to understand it. Once I feel I have a grasp on the knot, I find it vanishes. And then, always, there is the flowing rush afterwards. Like a dam breaking. No longer am I a root knotted around a stone. I am a gust of air rushing endlessly over tall grass. I am wild, rushing river rapids.

When I love myself most, when I love life most, when I am most at peace in mind and heart - I always feel that pure energy, that sense of motion.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on January 21, 2010, 11:54:30 am
Wow wolf cub. As someone starting shadow work right now, I say - awesome post!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on January 24, 2010, 12:30:36 pm
Purification #11

Hail Qererti, coming forth from Amenti, I do not fornicate with minors.


This purification calls on my father, Wesir, He who is in His Caverns (Qererti) in the West (Amenti). It specially speaks out against child prostitution. I think this is one purification we all agree to and uphold. However we should always be mindful that this isn’t just a practice the Greeks had. It is alive today. Child prostitution occurs in many cultures around the world. We should pray that tragedies like these will end quickly and do what we can to prevent it. Unfortunately this happened in our own backyard as well. Prostitution, molestation, and sexual abuse run rampant. We must make these atrocities come to light and never hide from them.

My best friend was a victim of sexual abuse as a child. Today she is a survivor. I admire her for her courage. She opens talks about her abuse and helps those who can’t. She is an inspiration for me. May Wesir, the eternal and final judge of all the dead, judge in accordance to ma’at all those who do this harm to others.

I would also like to bring something else up about this purification, that we commonly will find. Raymond Faulkner translates this purification as, “O He-of-the-Cavern who came forth from the West, I have not fornicated with the fornicator.” Another translation from Budge is, “Hail, Qerrti, who comest forth from Amentet, I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.” Hemet (AUS) has stated in her pamphlet on the Purifications that this purification is frequently mistranslated.  The word used for intercourse is nek, which is a more vulgar form of the word. There is another word, nekek, which means “a prepubescent boy used to nek.”

It's amazing the difference a word can make.

Senebty,

Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on January 25, 2010, 12:41:43 am
Thank you Ara. Although I have to admit that I'm not sure what shadow work is. My methodology is a blending of instinctive intuition, eastern philosophies, visualization meditation techniques, and nature imagery.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on January 26, 2010, 10:06:02 am
When you said this:

There are times where I feel I am a chaotic clashing of base impulses without meaning or purpose. I feel adrift, without direction, and I despair for the state of my human condition.

In my own practice, I try not to shy away from these feelings. Rather than reject them, I follow them through to their roots. I sink into the dark earth, intuitively feeling for those roots, blindly following the roots of self-loathing until I find the knot. The place where what once started out as the pure impulse of life itself got tied up and hopelessly complicated.




That is a really good example of shadow work. Shadow work is all about digging deep into ourselves find the things that would make us "unacceptable" to society, but are a part of who we are, and accepting them, integrating them-in the pursuit of becoming whole. In other words, the things about ourselves that we push into the "shadow" parts of ourselves, bringing them out and aloowing them to become healthy. Otherwise, the shadow when ignored will rear eventually and can lead to bad habits, self esteem problems, depression, anger, mental issues, violence, etc etc. A little different than what you are describing, but it seems your philosophy and style are congruent with what would be considered shadow work, that is in essence, better learning yourself. Your feelings of being adrift, chaotic, those COME *from* the shadow self.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on February 02, 2010, 05:23:23 pm
Purification #12

Hail His-Face-Behind-Him, coming forth from his roof, I do not give the wink.


This purification invoked the keeper of Ra’s boat in the Field of Reeds, “one who looks behind himself.” I have looked and cannot find anymore info on this person. Definitely would like to hear if anyone else knows about “the one who looks behind himself.

The wink tends to refer to those individuals who are corrupt or able to be corrupted. Generally this would refer to people in power, such as government and law officials. When given the correct amount, these people will tend to turn their eye and give the verdict the payer desires. This is often referred to as giving the wink or giving the nod.

In our culture of today, giving a wink can be meant as kidding around or telling someone that whatever they are saying is right, but me and you know better.

Fortunately I can say I haven’t given the wink to anyone. Well, not the wink in this context. Bribing officials to get what we desire is an act of selfishness and not allow ma’at to work.

Senebty,

Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: ASH on February 02, 2010, 09:30:33 pm
True.  Our 'shadow selves' ARE part of ourselves.  In order for us to embrace ourselves the shadow must be embraced as well.  How else can we know ourselves to make ourselves better?  If we know and accept our shadow(s) then we can make ourselves a stronger whole that works towards improvement.  If chaos is part of me then I am part chaos but it does not need to define me as long as I understand the nature of myself.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on February 04, 2010, 10:01:45 pm
Hmmmmmmmm. Deception. Corruption. Ruthlessness. Sneaking about in the shadows. Being manipulative. Playing the power game.

I know I certainly have my own flaws and have done wrong in the past. But to knowingly allow another to "take the fall" for my wrong? Let alone to set things up so that it will be so?

I can say little beyond this - that these things are anethema to me. It is an entirely different way of perceiving and expressing life than I go about. One that truly makes my stomach queesy. It's not that bending of rules that I abhor. Or even the dishonesty. I can appreciate a time and place for both of those. But that ever hungry mental and emotional core state, that paradigm that sees every person, place, thing, and event as a means to an end, as a resource to be exploited. It is... a grotesque disfiguration of the potential glory of the human spirit.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on February 05, 2010, 07:47:27 am
All true WolfCub, yet many, many people like that exist sadly.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on March 17, 2010, 08:20:55 pm
Em hotep!

Quote from: Raheri
Purification #12

Hail His-Face-Behind-Him, coming forth from his roof, I do not give the wink.


This purification invoked the keeper of Ra’s boat in the Field of Reeds, “one who looks behind himself.” I have looked and cannot find anymore info on this person. Definitely would like to hear if anyone else knows about “the one who looks behind himself.
 


I'm just wondering if anyone figured out more information about "the one who looks behind himself"?

I, too, am happy to say that I have not given the wink to anyone.

Senebty
Endy
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: ASH on March 18, 2010, 10:45:09 pm
Thinking on that...  his face behind him...  would it necessarily mean that someone is looking behind themself or that their (true) face is hidden behind them (their facade) as the 'wink' was considered as corrupt  <- i say that part because i found in the archives a lecture on this one and what the 'wink' meant
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on March 19, 2010, 02:23:14 pm
Interesting Ash....
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on March 19, 2010, 05:45:56 pm
Ah, great. Thanks for that. That helped a lot and I was easily able to find more information. I looked in my book "The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt" by Richard H. Wilkinson and found this on page 104, for those interested:

Quote
The 'Celestial Ferryman' of Egyptological literature represents a deity of numerous names. Frequently attested in the Pyramid Texts, the god ferries the deceased king across the 'Shifting Waterway' (which may perhaps be identified with the ecliptic - the apparent path of the sun and planets through the heavens), to the abode of Re, or to the afterlife 'field of offerings.' The divine ferryman is known as Her-ef-ha-ef 'He whose face is behind him' or by any of a dozen other names - many of which have similar meaning such as Ma-ha-ef 'He whose sight is behind him' - and which seem to be linked to his role. Less frequently attested in later periods, the god is sometimes depicted in the vignettes of the New Kingdom funerary texts seated or standing in his barque and being hailed by the deceased. In the Papyrus of Anhai he is shown, according to many of his descriptive names, with his head facing backwards.


Senebty
Endy
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Djehutyendy on March 19, 2010, 05:58:53 pm
Quote from: Kheru
So I sort of did find him! Glad to help track His name(s) down.  


Yup, you did :) Thanks again!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on April 21, 2010, 07:27:48 am
Wheres 13...??!   :  )
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on April 22, 2010, 09:28:38 pm
Purification #13

Hail Bast, coming forth from the shrine, I do not eat my heart.


This purification calls on Bast. For the longest time I have always seen Bast as a fluffy goddess type, but never really tried to develop any relationship with her. . Within the last few years I gotten to know her a little better. My first word I use is sneaky. She is not all sunshine and kittens. She has a fiercer aspect. She is known as the Devouring Lady. She is the Protectress to the Royal House and the Two Lands. She is not the fluffy goddess so many make her out to be. She is strong and cunning.

In Kemetic philosophy, the heart is the center of our emotions, memories, and the consciousness of a person. Our feelings can control us if we allow them to do so. If we feel our heart with negative emotions (such as anger, jealousy, greed, hatred, spitefulness, or self-loathing) then we are starving our heart from what it needs to remain healthy.

Feeding our hearts or our ka is like feeding our bodies. If we eat things we need like dairy, fiber, veggies, fruits, and other healthy things, then our body will function at its greatest potential. However if we feed it with Big Macs and chalupas everyday, then eventually those things were on the body.

Isfet is like a cancer. A small area in an isolated spot, may not be that harmful. But if we feed the cancer with carcinogens of hatred and self-loathing, that cancer may grow and eventually kill us.

I feel on of the greatest forms of isfet is self-hatred. Answer yourself honestly. Can you look in the mirror everyday and feel overwhelming love for that person in it? Can you forgive them of everything they have done wrong? Can you accept that they are only human and may make mistakes? If we can’t then we are failing at this purification. We are eating our heart.

Why do we do this? We are the children of Netjer. I am the son of Wesir. When I look in that mirror, into that person’s eyes, I must know and accept that those are the eyes of Wesir himself. I must now that about all my brothers and sisters. They are the faces of the gods.

I pray to Bast, that she may dispel the darkness and isfet in my heart. That she may devour all isfet and all that opposes ma’at, and shine the light of her beauty into it.

Senebty,

Raheriwesir
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tahai on April 23, 2010, 09:25:18 am
Thank you, Raheri.  There is so much wisdom in this post.

Two items that really jumped out at me:

Quote
Isfet is like a cancer. A small area in an isolated spot, may not be that harmful. But if we feed the cancer with carcinogens of hatred and self-loathing, that cancer may grow and eventually kill us.


And

Quote
I pray to Bast, that she may dispel the darkness and isfet in my heart. That she may devour all isfet and all that opposes ma’at, and shine the light of her beauty into it.


The second because it goes hand-in-hand with one of my own transformative moments when Bast, with the help of Sekhmet-Hethert, literally burned away Isfet's hold on my soul.

( http://www.netjer.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=100054&Board=4 )

Once again, Thank you!  I really enjoy your wisdom and experiences in regards to the Purifications, and look forward to each new one.

Blessings and Senebty,

Tahai
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on April 30, 2010, 09:08:35 pm
The comparison of this purification with proper nutrition reminds me of some nutritions commercials which remind us that if our bodies don't get the proper nutrients from our food, then the nutrients might be "borrowed" from certain areas like bones, weakening the bones.

I believe that there is a physics of the soul. The heart seeks balance instinctively, even if it does so blindly at times. If it isn't allowed to do it in a way that is constructive, then it will do so in a way that is destructive for the self.

As Robert DeNiro aptly portrayed in the movie adaptation of Frankenstein, "I have great love in my heart. And great rage. If I am not allowed to fulfill one, then I will indulge the other..."

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on May 15, 2010, 10:27:13 pm
Purification #14

Hail Hot-feet, coming forth from the dawn, I do not damage myself with lies.


This purification calls on the great Set. He who is the slayer of the Uncreated, who is the source of lies. I remember hearing Hemet (AUS) once say, “The sky is red because the snake is dead,” in reference to the color of dawn and Set’s job on the sky boat of Ra. Set is the only god who is capable of destroying the Uncreated, which is why He is head of the boat and protects Ra on his journey. As a great warrior and slayer, Set can direct us in destroying the beginnings of isfet within ourselves.

Since we have already mentioned in purification #8 that we do not lie, we now mention specifically that we don’t tell lies about ourselves. By telling untruths, we are speaking the language of isfet. We are attempting to destroy ma’at in our lives. Telling lies about ourselves not only damages our own character, but seeks to destroy that balance of ma’at within our own ib. Once one starts traveling down the road of falsehoods, it is hard to steer oneself back onto the path they sought to travel in the first place.

Going one step further with this purification, can we speak the truth when declaring this? How often in our daily life do we lie to ourselves? I know I struggled for years in self-doubt, hatred, and lied t myself everyday about who I truly was. Am I lying to myself today about things? Do I constantly tell myself I am fine and happy, when I really feel alone and frightened? Can I say I love my work, when I see that there are other things I rather do?

I ask Set, brother of my father, who loved his brother so much that He did what no other god could; please come and help me to see the lies I tell myself, confront those lies, and let the brilliance of ma’at shine like Ra from my heart.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on May 15, 2010, 10:29:25 pm
Quote from: Tahai
Once again, Thank you!  I really enjoy your wisdom and experiences in regards to the Purifications, and look forward to each new one.

Em hotep Tahai! I am so very far from wise, but thank you for the compliment anyway. :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shezatwepwawet on May 16, 2010, 11:19:55 am
Raheri, you are doing a great job with the purifications. It's not easy to look inside and be that honest with yourself.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Menemaset on May 16, 2010, 11:31:25 am
Quote from: Raheri
Going one step further with this purification, can we speak the truth when declaring this? How often in our daily life do we lie to ourselves? I know I struggled for years in self-doubt, hatred, and lied to myself everyday about who I truly was. Am I lying to myself today about things? Do I constantly tell myself I am fine and happy, when I really feel alone and frightened? Can I say I love my work, when I see that there are other things I rather do?


I'm so good at lying to myself that I often believe my own lies. It's something that I've been working on for awhile now and I'm not done yet. I'll definitely be keeping Set and this purification in mind as I continue working on this personal flaw of mine.

Thanks for the analysis, Raheri!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on May 17, 2010, 12:27:11 am
Em hotep Raheri!

"... damage myself with lies ..."

I always took that to mean damaging my reputation by being branded as a liar, thereby lessening my worth in society which could be seen as damaging myself.

I like your interpretation too though - it's definitely a good thing to be aware of what we say to ourselves as well as others, and to identify and get rid of all lies.  For example, telling yourself that you're stupid when I seriously doubt anyone here actually *is* stupid is not only a lie, but it is definitely bad heka and damaging to oneself.  Sure, we've all done stupid things in our lives, but on the whole we are not stupid people; everyone makes mistakes now and again, yes?  A one time event certainly doesn't define the whole person.  :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on May 18, 2010, 07:40:54 pm
Truth and honesty is a sticky wicket. Not lieing to others is a matter of intention. I can totally believe what I tell you is the truth. But if I'm subconsciously lieing to myself, then how can I be honest at all? To anyone? About anything?

This purification certainly takes honesty to a deeper level. And it seems appropriate that this one follow the other. So now you've started down the road of truth? Now get ready to kick it up a notch. It is not as simple as you think, after all.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on June 05, 2010, 07:29:35 pm
Purification #15

Hail Swallower of Blood, coming forth from the chopping-block, I do not commit usury with grain.


I don’t know about any of you, but when I read the title of the Name that this purification calls on, the first thing that popped in my head was, “Swallower of Blood…awesome!” Okay, now that we have established how weird I am let’s continue on in our Duat journey.

I am not too sure who the Swallower of Blood is; Sekhmet, Shezmu, Ammit? In Hemet’s (AUS) writings The 42 Purifications: Meditations on a Translation of Chapter 125 of the Pert-em-Heru (available at  The Imhotep Kemetic Orthodox Seminary (http://www.kemetschool.org/pubs/book1.php), and no I don’t get a kick-back from the king for mentioning that) she discusses who this protector is, and does mention Sekhmet, but reveals that there is no secure fact in this. Whoever it is, awesome title to have!

Usury is defined as the act of lending money at an interest rate higher than that permitted by law. I know many credit card companies that fit this description. Usury is unethical and violates ma’at. Usury in ancient Kemet involved grain and charging outrageous interest rates. Hemet encourages us to look deeper in this purification and how it applies to us living in the modern day.

 
Quote from: Hemet (AUS)
Do you feel the world “owes you” something for what you put into it?

Do you expect more from the world than you give?

Have you done a favor for another and then used that favor as a bargaining chip for your gain?


I can say I honestly don’t feel that the world owes me. I guess this is one of my positive character attributes, but I know plenty of people that do. One of them being my own brother. I would think that living with this attitude would be horrible, because it would be a need that someone has, that would never be fulfilled.

Today in society there are generations that feel like they are owed.

Why call the employer back? I put in the application.
Why do I have to study? I paid my tuition.
What do you mean I have to work a holiday? I requested it off.
Working for something is seen as crazy talk.

I will say that I have been guilty of expecting favors in return. Worst yet, I try to be sneaky about it, and make it look like I don’t expect favors when I really do. Definite character flaw of mine which needs continued work.

I pray to the Swallower of Blood. When I proclaim my innocence regarding usury when I stand before you, may my truth of voice and honesty be my heka. May I not be frightened in your sight for I know I will be made true of voice in that day. And may I always do favors out of kindness without a thought for myself.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on June 08, 2010, 11:20:52 pm
Perhaps only fellow Star Trek nerds will understand me when I say that I think of the Ferengi when I read this purification.

Human society, and one might even argue the universe itself, operates on basic principles of give and take, surge and ebb. The motion and flow of activity bases itself on these polarities. But we can distinguish between bartering, or bargaining and living wholly for selfish profit.

It never appears to end well, either. Those who make greed their primarily motivation in life certainly experience many pleasures. But because their hunger grows with their success, it is never enough. So they devour and devour. And somehow, they just get more empty. And nothing, no matter how opulent, seems like enough. And these sorts of people go about ruining their own lives and the lives of countless others in the pursuit of something they can never acheive, because they go about it in entirely the wrong way.

Consider the the difference between a symbiote and a parasite. The former is an organism which attaches to another, providing a benefit in exchange for what it gains. The parasite just takes. Like the deer tick. Sucking the life's blood from whatever animal it happens on. Growing fatter and fatter on the life of others. Until even the slightest touch can make it burst from the pressure of what it holds so tightly inside. (I don't really like ticks much...)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 09, 2010, 12:37:37 pm
I find it amazing how many different versions of these confessions there are... in the three version I currently own, Confession number 12 does not speak of 'the wink'; in fact, never have I heard of 'the wink' confession. In the three versions I possess, number 12 says "I have not fornicated with another man."

As far as I know, these confessions were mass produced just like the Book of the Dead; each person could by a version and have a scribe alter it to fit their needs.  Many believe that the negative confessions were 'erasers' so to say. By owning a scroll of them or writing them upon a tomb wall, you were invoking a potent magic which will allow the consul of Netjer in the Hall of Two Truths to forgive you actions in life. Basically, repent your sins and be forgiven.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bestekeni on June 09, 2010, 12:44:57 pm
The version we are referring to was translated by our Nisut, who holds a masters in Egyptian language/philology and another in Coptology.  I am not sure which version she translated -- I will find out when I get home and look at my copy.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 09, 2010, 01:06:43 pm
Thank you

Now I do not want to cause trouble, but I am sure that the translation of confession twelve was change for very touchy reason. I am not trying to speak ill against the Nisut... I may not be a member of a temple but I am very much a follower of her; though confession twelve does imply that homosexuality was frowned upon by the ancient Egyptian people (Although, please be aware the ancients were not hostile towards homosexuality, they just did not 'embellish' it to the point that the Greeks did.)  All in all...I understand why she (your Nisut) would not consent to this truth; it raises a touchy subject...
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sedjemes on June 09, 2010, 01:15:00 pm
Hotep!

No trouble is ever raised by discussion or even disagreement.

The Nisut, as has been said elsewhere, holds advanced degrees in language and religion of ancient Egypt, and can translate direct from hieroglyphs.  An argument could be equally made that various translations of the confessions might use the word "homosexual" because of Judaeo-Christian interpretation.

But here is the NIsut's explanation of this purification:

Purification 11

Hail Qererti, coming forth from Amenti, I do not fornicate with minors.

Purification eleven's one of the most controversial, and has been mistranslated in many ways for many reasons.

Quite literally, the purification is dedicated to Wesir, "He Who is in His Caverns" (Qererti) in the West (Amenti). It speaks against, again quite literally while still remaining readable by our younger members, "having sex with a sex-boy." There's a play on words here. The verb nek, the most vulgar way to say "intercourse" in Egyptian, is played off of the very similar looking word "nekek," literally a prepubescent boy who is used to nek -- a child prostitute.

The sexual abuse of children has to be one of the strongest sins in our faith. I pray by all Names that children be protected.

Dua Netjer! Nekhtet!

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 10, 2010, 06:34:35 pm
Thank you,

I do not want to cause an uproar on this topic, I simply want to point out a fact. As I had mentioned in my previous post here, I own three different versions of the Negative Confessions.  Each one I own states in Confession 11 'I have not fornicated with a child (boy)'. Confession number 12 states 'I have not fornicated with another man.' Perhaps over the years these two confessions were molded into one and became 'I have not fornicated with a child (boy)' because the act of preforming nek with a boy was far more repulsive and vulgar to the ancient Kemetic people then two adult men preforming nek together.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sedjemes on June 10, 2010, 06:55:11 pm
Hotep :)

No uproar :)

I do notice that Budge translates only his 11th to say "I have not committed fornication" (at least according to the Dover Print edition of his Book of the Dead) and Faulkner's most recent translation says it as "I have not fornicated with the fornicator."

Neither of them, sadly, give any more close look at the specific transliterations.

But there are larger concepts about which to discuss :)

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 10, 2010, 07:37:58 pm
Thank you,

All in all, I feel, no matter the translation, no matter what language we speak, these 42 Confessions are one of the most important piece of ancient Kemetic literate to know in order to uphold Ma'at and keep Isfet from returning.

Again, Thank you
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on June 10, 2010, 08:09:45 pm
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Thank you,

All in all, I feel, no matter the translation, no matter what language we speak, these 42 Confessions are one of the most important piece of ancient Kemetic literate to know in order to uphold Ma'at and keep Isfet from returning.

Again, Thank you

The Purifications are wonderful, but I have to disagree that they are one of the most important records we have. I am more impartial to the Book of the Hidden Chambers as an afterlife type text, and the writings of Ptah-Hotep as excellent wisdom resources. The Book of thr Dead was basically a spellbook to get throught the Duat and have a chance of being judged. While the Purifications are an excellent guide, they are not written in stone. They deveoped out of sets of priestly laws for w'ab priest to maintain. While they may help an individual acheive a more "moral character", they will hardly give you no admittance to the afterlife if one fails at them.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 10, 2010, 09:20:11 pm
I agree with you,

That is why I said they are 'one' of the most important... just my opinion.  I find the Maximums of Ptah-Hotep to be amazing as well; and the Book of Chambers or the Book of Caverns to be equally astonishing. As well, I would recommend that you should read the Corpus Hermeticum and the Asclepius.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on June 10, 2010, 11:06:28 pm
Interesting tangents all, but perhaps we should guide ourselves back to the main topic of Purification 15? ;)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 11, 2010, 12:32:01 am
You are right Wolf_CLub, back to the matter at hand...

I have a strong feeling about this Confession, and I can feel why it is so important; especial to the ancient people of Kemet.  Wheat and emmer was the livelihood to all the people of Kemet, noble or peasant. To charge ridiculous prices for your wheat would have caused many poor to go without the amount need to feed their family and cause their eventual deaths by starvation. In essence, usury equaled death. Today the outcome of usury is not so evident, but it does happen... inflation rises higher then minimum wage and many cannot afford to by their family enough food; or pay other bills or their mortgage.

In my opinion, the 'Swallower of Blood' is Mafdet.  She is an ancient protector goddess of the pharaoh; preceding Bast. She was often depicted as a lion running up the side of an executioner's staff (This was to show that if you had done wrong, Mafdet would cause you to be executed swiftly). It was told that Mafdet would rip out the hearts of all wrong-doers and deliver their bodies to the feet of pharaoh (much like how a cat will bring the remains of rodents or birds it has killed to its owner's feet)... Also, by the time of the New Kingdom, Mafdet was seen as a ruling authority over 'judgment' in the Hall of Two Truths in the Duat; there she would decapitated the enemies of Pharaoh with her long claw, and drink their blood.

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on June 20, 2010, 08:03:20 pm
Would this thread be a good place to sort of do a modern analysis of this topic, or should I try to start another thread?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: NiankhSekhmet on June 20, 2010, 08:48:02 pm
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety

In my opinion, the 'Swallower of Blood' is Mafdet.  She is an ancient protector goddess of the pharaoh; preceding Bast. She was often depicted as a lion running up the side of an executioner's staff (This was to show that if you had done wrong, Mafdet would cause you to be executed swiftly). It was told that Mafdet would rip out the hearts of all wrong-doers and deliver their bodies to the feet of pharaoh (much like how a cat will bring the remains of rodents or birds it has killed to its owner's feet)... Also, by the time of the New Kingdom, Mafdet was seen as a ruling authority over 'judgment' in the Hall of Two Truths in the Duat; there she would decapitated the enemies of Pharaoh with her long claw, and drink their blood.


Why would you assume that they are referring only to Mafdet rather than any other Eye of Ra, such as Sekhmet? Sekhmet has done all of those things and indeed are in Her epiphets as well. The same might be said of Bast, who was originally a Lioness...or Mut.  Each one of these Eyes of Ra have done these things depending upon which text you use as a reference. ;)

Senebty!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 21, 2010, 08:55:50 am
You have a good point NiankhSekhmet,

You can look at any of the feline/lioness Netjer and place her here.  In my opinion, both spiritual, and factually, this particular Swallower of Blood is only one of them. I say Mafdet, due in part that one of the later confessions call upon Sekhemt. The only way I or any of us will know for sure who exactly this confession is calling upon, I would have to see the original hieroglyphic text (Sadly, I have not been able to get my hands on it :( ). Even truer still, some of these confessions are not calling upon a Netjer at all, but rather a demon (Though, not a demon in the view of Hollywood or other faiths; Kemetic demons are malicious spirit which dwells in the Duat, like Ammet or apophis).  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Zef on June 21, 2010, 05:47:06 pm
I just showed my mother the Faulkner version of the purifications and it made her laugh out loud, "She, they hated lawyers even then!"

*cough* More on topic, I see this as more of a general warning not to be greedy to the point that it harms your fellows, or at least that's how I interpret it for myself, since I can't really do much with grain in this modern era.

Also, you weren't the only one who thought that about the Swallower-of-Blood's title, Raheri. :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on June 24, 2010, 12:05:56 pm
Negative Confession 16 from the Book of the Dead:

16- Hail, Unem-besek, who comest forth from Mabit, I have not stolen cultivated land. (Scroll of Ani)
16- Hail, Devourer of the inward parts, who comest forth from Mabet, I have not laid waste the ploughed land. (Scroll of Nebseni)
16- Hail, Neb-maat, who comest forth from Maati, I have not pillaged the lands which have been ploughed. (Scroll of Nefernesin)

I sited these three scrolls for they are a few of the more 'well-known' scrolls of the Book of the Dead (Most notably, the scroll of Ani.) The reason behind placing these three here was to prove a point; not all Book of the Dead scrolls were made 100% equal.  

To me, this confession is one of more potency to the ancient Egyptians then most of us in today's modern world when non of us will or have ever worked on a farm.  Back then, to damage Kemet's most vital resource, the black soil farmlands along the Nile, would have been seen as a most unlawful/inhuman act.  Mainly, I see this confession as speaking of salting the fields more then anything, or not ingratiating them properly. Also, it rings out that stealing farm land is most unjust, as well as stealing the crop.  In this case, this confession would be speaking more towards the noblemen who would have been the landlord of a farming estate.  This confession was like say, "I was a good Landlord, and did not seize my neighbor's estate/fields."

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on June 24, 2010, 09:53:54 pm
Those are interesting variations, but the variation of the wording of religious texts in different locations over the course of time is something I think most people here are familiar with.

As for discussion on the 16th purification, I think that before we can delve into it, we need to agree on a standard translation to use (at least as a starting point for discussion). For the sake of consistency in this thread, I think it beneficial to continue using Hemet's (AUS) translation.

The Ancient Egyptian cultural significance of these purifications, in all their variations, is certainly interesting to consider. Even beneficial. But I think the primary use of considering them lies in finding a significance in your life here and now (to that end, considering the past can be useful, at times).

Before jumping off the diving board, so to speak, I will wait for Hemet's translation to be posted, so that we can all begin on the same page.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on June 24, 2010, 09:56:02 pm
Purification #16

Hail Swallower of Intestines, coming forth from the Thirteen, I do not plunder cultivated lands.


Interesting purification.

Giving homage to the eater of entrails is summoned at the beginning of this purification. The intestines were under the protection of the Netjer Serqet, and are guarded by one of the Sons of Heru, Qebshenef. He was a netjeri that served in the Duat and protected the deceased, along with protecting the body of Wesir. According to many medical papyrus, not much was known on the true function of the intestines. This may have been why they were removed by the embalmers. Whether or not this purification is calling on Him or another Netjeri, I found this information interesting.

I do not plunder cultivated lands. On the surface this is another agricultural purification. It again focuses on profiting from another. This time we are taking something which someone else has grown and raised, and attempting to make it our own. Since each person’s labor can bear fruits of its own, we must not take that which we didn’t work for.

I may not have an army, or Viking ship and go out plundering and pillaging; but do I take what isn’t mine? Do I take credit for the work of another? Do I take credit for my mom’s delicious potato salad at the picnic this weekend, or do tell everyone how great of a cook my mom is?

So far stealing has been mentioned four times. Four is the number of completion. Do we ignore this? The ancient Egyptians knew that stealing destroyed community. We must always be vigilant. Not against another for fear of them taking ours. We must look into ourselves and drive that isfet out and replace it with ma’at. Only then can we face the Swallower of Intestines without fear.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Maretemheqat on June 25, 2010, 09:27:24 am
Hotep Raheri,

I also thought of this from an ecological point of view as well, in that because agriculture was such a large way of life, that plundering the land that crop has grown on could be considered a death sentence in that time.
Today, it makes me think about what I do to reduce the harm I cause to Geb, as well as other steps I take to reduce my consumption. We STILL, to this day, rely on farmers to give us wheat for a great many things. Having too much food in your home so that it goes to waste is almost like plundering land as well. It's wasteful and disrespectful.

I can understand the "taking something that isn't mine and passing it off as my own" thought that you've posted as well. Alot of time and effort goes into making something, and when someone else tries to pass it off as their own, it hurts. I've had this happen to me specifically in regards to dance costuming. It's hard to describe how I felt, but in a nut shell, it wasn't very good. I was definately hurt, and it ended my friendship with the girl who claimed my work as her own.

Thanks for posting this.

~Maret
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on June 30, 2010, 11:49:44 pm
I remember when I was a small child playing outside during recess. It was too wet from the rain to play on the grass. So everyone was stuck playing on the small cement portion of the playground. I created a game to play with some cones and a soccer ball (essentially a modified form of soccer for a smaller field). Everyone started to play it, and somehow I got shoved off to the side and excluded from the game that I had created for us to play.

I will always remember the sense of sadness and injustice I felt that day. The worst part was that I hadn't even meant to keep it to myself. I had made it to share with others. But they took all of it for themselves.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 03, 2010, 12:20:12 pm
Purification #17

Hail Lord of Ma’at, coming forth from [the hall of] Ma’ati, I do not discuss [my] secrets.


This purification calls out to Djehuty, the Lord of Wisdom, God of the Year, and a beloved name to me. Here He stands in the Hall of Judgment, Ma’ati, the Hall of Two Truths. This is the place where we are judged according to our deeds. Wesir sits on the throne, behind Him is the Ma’ati Herself, His sisters Aset and Nebt-Het. Here the heart is placed on the scale of Ma’at, and the Lord of Wisdom documents the verdict. Djehuty is the Lord of Language. It is through His knowledge that mankind was given the faculties of speech and language. He reminds us that everything we say can create or destroy. As Lord of Truth, He is an appropriate name to judge one regarding whether one is keeping secrets.

Today, in our Western society, secrets are seen as sinister. Tabloids and entertainment news shows focus on the spectacular. What did Britney do this week? Paris isn’t wearing underwear! Jesse cheated on Oscar Award Winner Sandra! It seems at times that there are no secrets. Often secrets are traded like cards. After all, don’t we all enjoy some juicy gossip.

Last week I got some juicy gossip on someone I cannot stand. You bet, I went out and told everyone I know that knew the individual about it. It wasn’t that big of a secret; it was in the newspaper, but is that really a good reason to enjoy the pain of another? Even if the person in an awful person? Not really. I think if that is the type of person I want to be. I don’t want to be the person who enjoys the pain and suffering of another. I don’t want to be the person standing there laughing, “Karma got that SOB!” I want to be better than that. I expect myself to be better than that.

In my life I have made oaths to keep secrets. Being both a Shemsu-Ankh and a Brother of Freemasonry has giving me a respect for secrecy. Not because it is something we must keep away from others because it is ours. The secrets are there to make those experiences more special to the one involved in the ritual. These secrets will not hurt any one, just make the ritual itself more splendid.

How many times do I hear co-workers telling me about there mentally abusive partners, their reproductive cycle, what medications they are taking, and how drunk they got over the weekend. Maybe it’s the nature of my profession, or maybe I am easy to talk to, and people just open up to me. Why? Maybe I am being to hard on myself, because I can keep a secret. Maybe I am not as bad as I think.  ;)

Djehuty, I know I have failed in keeping secrets in the past. I know my speech and voice have hurt others. I pray I may have a skilled, patient, and thoughtful tongue. May I think before I speak, and may your wisdom guide me in helping others, always.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bennu on July 03, 2010, 01:28:42 pm
I totally agree with you regarding secrets, Raheri. There are things that are told in confidence - whether to a friend, a colleague, a counsellor or a fellow Moose Lodge brother - that are meant to be precisely that: things told in confidence. Therefore, they should be treated as such and upheld with what I would call something akin to sacred silence. A secret is someone putting their words in trust to you. Using that as a weapon, even if meant innocently, is an inapropriate breach of trust. It took me a long time to respect secrets and confidences as sacred - maybe that's why I can't stand "reality shows" and tabloid gossip anymore.  ;)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Iaityinepu on July 03, 2010, 07:32:29 pm
My sister had a best friend who she told some very 'personal' secrets.  They weren't anything that was hurting anyone but herself, so that's her prerogative.  Those who 'needed' to know already know too...

My sister and her friend had an arguement and were no longer friends.  This, according the friend, then meant she had no longer any obligation to 'keep' such secrets and used them against my sister in arguement and blabbed them to anyone who would listen.

I thought it was absolutely disgusting and made me realise that some of my 'innocent' gossip is probably still hurting someone and made a vow to [try] not to gossip.  I am doing a lot better these days.  Even if I don't like someone, I [try] not to discuss their lives, and will even go to try and diffuse 'gossip' conversations.

Thank you, Djehuty, for assisting in making me a better person and please continue to help me be strong against Gossip and keeping my words thoughtful and considerate. x
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on July 07, 2010, 12:44:48 pm
I've had that happen to me Iait, my secrets betrayed by ex "friends". To me it's a total backstab...my experiences luckily left me with an intense desire to do better and *never* behave that way and thus when someone shares confidence with me, it goes to the grave with me unless they say it's ok to do otherwise. I don't care how much I may or may not like them, it's not my place to "out" them in any way. Unless, of course, it's something actually dangerous to someone else which nulls any other understandings. Some of my more fruitful mistakes...
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on July 07, 2010, 11:14:17 pm
Secrets and the betrayal of trust. For me, this sort of thing boils down to a question of the truthfulness, helpfulness, and necessity of my talk. If the words I use are a genuine attempt to be honest, helpful, and useful then those words are good.

Gossip is usually questionable information, at best. It's purpose is rarely helpful, as well. It usually amounts to idle entertainment. Idle entertainment in and of itself is not worth condemnation. But when idle entertainment is petty and spiteful... Well, there are better forms of entertainment.

I've heard it said that one of the problems with people is that they do not know how to properly handle boredom. There are creative, playful, and fun things to do with downtime that are not hurtful to oneself or others.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bennu on July 08, 2010, 05:15:46 pm
Well said, Wolf Cub.  :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on July 16, 2010, 12:59:06 pm
Quote from: Wolf_Cub
Secrets and the betrayal of trust. For me, this sort of thing boils down to a question of the truthfulness, helpfulness, and necessity of my talk. If the words I use are a genuine attempt to be honest, helpful, and useful then those words are good.

Gossip is usually questionable information, at best. It's purpose is rarely helpful, as well. It usually amounts to idle entertainment. Idle entertainment in and of itself is not worth condemnation. But when idle entertainment is petty and spiteful... Well, there are better forms of entertainment.

I've heard it said that one of the problems with people is that they do not know how to properly handle boredom. There are creative, playful, and fun things to do with downtime that are not hurtful to oneself or others.  


I agree WolfCub, well said. To play devils advocate tho, one thing in particular caught my eye and brought me to consider gossip in another light, and that is as a form of information transmittal in/about your local community. Gossip has GOT to be a ridiculously old practice, precisely because it DOES just that, it keep you in "the know" about your community. It lets you open up the non-verbal and verbal undercurrents flowing in and around the people in your immediate environment.

Just a random thought I had...
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on July 16, 2010, 11:46:46 pm
I suppose that depends on what you mean by "the know". In my experience, gossip tends to be like the childhood game of Telephone. The message distorts further with each new telling. In the end, one winds up knowing nothing much, but succeeding mostly just in making noise.

As for opening up non-verbal and verbal undercurrents flowing about... Well, I suppose that is one form of social interaction. But I cannot help but think that the great success of magazines, TV shows, and blogs based of celebrity gossip is based on tapping into some sort of vain, illusory "social pipeline". There's the feeling of being "in the know" to be sure. And that carries a kind of satisfaction, and subsequent urge to anticipate what comes next. But looking honestly at what supposed to be known, it all just comes up hollow. So and so might have done this. And such and such might have happened. And people get caught up in it. And they assign a degree of reality to the (highly suspect) information based on emotional reaction to it. Believing something is true, because of the fear that it might be true. Or the hope that it might be true.  

I think that gossip gives the illusion of "the know", but actually muddles one's social interactions and perceptions. It muddies the waters by stirring up dirt. It doesn't let you see things and events clearly. But it makes you feel that you are. And therein lies the danger.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on July 17, 2010, 10:50:12 am
Quote from: Wolf_Cub
I suppose that depends on what you mean by "the know". In my experience, gossip tends to be like the childhood game of Telephone. The message distorts further with each new telling. In the end, one winds up knowing nothing much, but succeeding mostly just in making noise.


True, largely would depend on the "gossip" I'd imagine.

Quote from: Wolf_Cub

As for opening up non-verbal and verbal undercurrents flowing about... Well, I suppose that is one form of social interaction. But I cannot help but think that the great success of magazines, TV shows, and blogs based of celebrity gossip is based on tapping into some sort of vain, illusory "social pipeline". There's the feeling of being "in the know" to be sure. And that carries a kind of satisfaction, and subsequent urge to anticipate what comes next. But looking honestly at what supposed to be known, it all just comes up hollow. So and so might have done this. And such and such might have happened. And people get caught up in it. And they assign a degree of reality to the (highly suspect) information based on emotional reaction to it. Believing something is true, because of the fear that it might be true. Or the hope that it might be true.  


Yep. The best thing you can do (and what I do) is simply not participate. Such a waste of time if you ask me....I was really thinking more on a local scale however. Honestly that kind of drama doesn't even hit my radar...


Quote from: Wolf_Cub

I think that gossip gives the illusion of "the know", but actually muddles one's social interactions and perceptions. It muddies the waters by stirring up dirt. It doesn't let you see things and events clearly. But it makes you feel that you are. And therein lies the danger.  


Yup. Again depends on the people involved. For instance, a "good" example (I think) of gossip would be:

"Did you hear Theresa broke her ankle?"

"Nooooo! That's awful!"

"Yep, she had a nasty fall down her front step."

"Oh that's awful, I'll have to send her a get well card."

And the card gets sent, Theresa is touched by the gesture from a relative stranger and she strikes up a friendship with said card-sender....

Good gossip at work...
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 17, 2010, 11:04:32 am
This purification does not so much talk about idle chit-chat, but more on the private information which can hurt oneself and others.

Quote
gossip –noun
1. idle talk or rumor, esp. about the personal or private affairs of others: the endless gossip about Hollywood stars.  


We live in an information age where everything is known about everything. Heck, I can write about my BMs on facebook and let everyone know about it. The kind of talk we are referring to is the talk which can and may intentionally hurt someone else.

Quote from: Ara
Yup. Again depends on the people involved. For instance, a "good" example (I think) of gossip would be:

"Did you hear Theresa broke her ankle?"

"Nooooo! That's awful!"

"Yep, she had a nasty fall down her front step."

"Oh that's awful, I'll have to send her a get well card."

And the card gets sent, Theresa is touched by the gesture from a relative stranger and she strikes up a friendship with said card-sender....

Good gossip at work...


This isn’t really a correct view of gossip. There is no intention to discuss her private matters, nor are we intentionally trying to harm her. We are acting out of concern for her and compassion. We are not trying to figure out if she actually through her self off the front step to try sue the carpenters that made them for some extra cash. In that case I think we would cross the line into gossiping.

This purification is about secrets though. The most important which are the ones we keep.

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sedjemes on July 17, 2010, 11:10:44 am
Hotep~

I don't think of "gossip" as being "oh dear, X got hurt" or "haven't seen Y in a while, I think he is home sick".

Gossip to me is defined as something like "X and Y broke up, did you hear anything about that? I heard he was cheating on her/she was jealous" or even something like "X is always so bossy/Y is way too silly all the time."  Gossip is about stuff that may or may not be true, and way too often is about the speaker's own personal feelings or perceptions, which may or may not be valid, may or may not be true. It is appealling too often because those talked about are sometimes people we *want* to hear juicy tidbits about maybe we don't *like* them, or, we made our own judgments about, negatively, and the gossip feeds into that. And the stuff gets talked about over and over and passed around, each listener "accepting" it somewhat as true, mostly because the previous speaker is perceived as "trustworthy" (which should have nothing to do with the acceptance of the "gossip."

The listener probably does not stop to think, is it even true, is it possibly not true. Instead, it becomes truth simply because it was spoken. Oh yes, and, I forgot to mention--often the gossip is none of the listener's business. The listener has no reason to know it, or care about it.

And yes, I have been guilty of this way too often. It is something I am still working on, because it is too easy for human nature to want to know "private" stuff, especially as it takes us out of our own little circle of *stuff* for even a little while. And our gods often have told us to stop stuff like that especially because it distracts us from taking care of true business.

That does not make it easier hah.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Maretemheqat on July 17, 2010, 11:34:04 am
Quote from: Sedjemes
Hotep~

I don't think of "gossip" as being "oh dear, X got hurt" or "haven't seen Y in a while, I think he is home sick".

Gossip to me is defined as something like "X and Y broke up, did you hear anything about that? I heard he was cheating on her/she was jealous" or even something like "X is always so bossy/Y is way too silly all the time."  Gossip is about stuff that may or may not be true, and way too often is about the speaker's own personal feelings or perceptions, which may or may not be valid, may or may not be true. It is appealling too often because those talked about are sometimes people we *want* to hear juicy tidbits about maybe we don't *like* them, or, we made our own judgments about, negatively, and the gossip feeds into that. And the stuff gets talked about over and over and passed around, each listener "accepting" it somewhat as true, mostly because the previous speaker is perceived as "trustworthy" (which should have nothing to do with the acceptance of the "gossip."

The listener probably does not stop to think, is it even true, is it possibly not true. Instead, it becomes truth simply because it was spoken. Oh yes, and, I forgot to mention--often the gossip is none of the listener's business. The listener has no reason to know it, or care about it.

And yes, I have been guilty of this way too often. It is something I am still working on, because it is too easy for human nature to want to know "private" stuff, especially as it takes us out of our own little circle of *stuff* for even a little while. And our gods often have told us to stop stuff like that especially because it distracts us from taking care of true business.

That does not make it easier hah.


Having been the subject of people's gossip before, what Kai Imakhu Sedjemes has written here is very true.

NO ONE stopped to think about what was being said, about whom the information was comming from, and if it was even their buisness or not.

Only two people within that group stopped the gossip when it happened by comming directly to the other person involved, but no one came to me directly to ask what was going on. That, in and of itself, was more hurtful than what was being said in the first place.

~Maret
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on July 17, 2010, 02:20:26 pm
I also strongly agree with you Sedjemes. That compulsion towards secret and/or private knowledge is a pernicious one. I find that just taking a moment before I speak to examine my motives is usually enough to catch that negative motivation before I indulge in it. Once we recognize it for what it is, it hold is loosened.

As Maret has pointed out from personal experience, it is too easy to hurt others with the malicious spreading of information (accurate or suspect).

Part of it has to do with the entertainment factor. It is a comfort to forget one's troubles, even momentarily. But to do so by wallowing in the troubles of another is less than noble.

And there is also the allure of "secret knowledge." But we have to remember that this is a part of someone's life that we are talking about. And if it is taken out of proper context (as I find it usually is), then it's hardly any sort of knowledge at all. It's like taking a wristwatch apart to see what the insides look like, but having no real understanding of how it works, or how to put it back together.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 19, 2010, 06:32:03 pm
Purification #18

Hail Backwards-Walker, coming forth from Per-Bast, I do not babble.


We all know these people. I was on the phone with one today. I repeated the same thing five times before they figured out I might be busy and I heard what they said, in the 25 different ways that they said it. Some people talk because they like the sound of their own voice, and no one else is probably listening.

This purification calls on the Confusing One. The one who speaks by sending the mouth out. This spirit talks in a meaningless manner. Sometimes we use words to try an make ourselves seem more intelligent and for people to take us more seriously, however all we wind up doing is making ourselves look more foolish than we actually are.

We should always make sure our speech is clear and to the point. We should not twist it, to be vague, confusing, or try to harm others with it. The person that does this should look deep into themselves and see why they are doing this, why are they so insecure in themselves, that they have to make other look foolish or cannot accept that someone else’s viewpoint may be right. Once we start down this ego-centric path, are we truly following the gods will in our lives. Are we practicing the teachings of ma’at, or is that just lip-service?

In the Old Testament, the people of the world built the Tower because they were arrogant and filled with themselves. They were going to prove to YHWY that they did not need him. So YHWY played a good trick on them and confused there speech and no one could understand the other. That is kind of what happens when babbling or confusing talk happens. We kind of shut ourselves off from the real communication, and just stop hearing what the other person is.

Everyone who knows me I am a man of few words. If something needs to be said I will say it. If not, you may not hear from me or even remember I am there. Maybe its part of the nature of my father. Or maybe I am afraid I will look foolish.

We should be careful what comes from our lips. We should speak clearly. It echoes back to the last purification, and keeping the secrets. Speak with a clear, concise tongue. Do not speak to deceive or hurt others.

Lots to think about.

Senebty,

Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on July 19, 2010, 10:58:51 pm
This is a tricky one. Clarity in language requires clarity in thought. For language is just how we express our thoughts and communicate them to others. And if we are muddled in our words, then we are likely muddled in our thinking somehow. If we speak compulsively, then it is because we are thinking compulsively, and so on.

Changing this is difficult. It entails looking deeply and seriously into our motivations - as so many of the purifications do. As human beings we come out naturally as great collections of impulses, both inherited and learned. Raw metal ore is similar. It comes out of the earth full of impurities, until it is heated to melting. Then the slag and pure ore are seperated.

I wonder if each of these purifications is not unlike that smelting process. Calling us to look at a specific set of actions and attitudes, and lose the excess material in ourselves that keeps us less than ideal. What is it that makes us who we are? And what might we be better off just losing?

This is much like what I learned when studying English in college. To speak and write clearly, one must start from a clear point of thinking. With experience one learns the difference between those essays written with clarity, skill, and confidence, and those written without.

To act and speak with purity, we need to see inside ourselves the origins of our thoughts and deeds. To trace to the root.

As many who have studied the martial arts learn. A weak stance results in weak technique. One does not punch with the hand, or the arm, but with the entire body.

To avoid babbling, we must speak with our whole being, from a center of strength.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on July 20, 2010, 03:21:14 am
"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."  ~ Mark Twain
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bennu on July 20, 2010, 04:40:52 am
Quote from: Senushemi
"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."  ~ Mark Twain

Yup.

I agree with Wolf_Cub about clarity of speech depending upon clarity of thought, which, in my opinion, ultimately means mind over matter and mastery over emotion. It takes A LOT of self-awareness and inner wisdom, I think, to be able to make this a viable, doable MO 24/7. Some people are naturally better than others at clarity of thought and speech - like Spock and the Vulcans in the Star Trek franchise. Others, like James T. Kirk, instinctively tend to act first and think later. I think both ways of being have their good and bad points. The real trick is knowing when to use which approach while upholding ma'at.  

... or am I just babbling... ?  ;)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Maretemheqat on July 20, 2010, 09:19:55 am
Thanks for pointing this one out Raheri.

I have a patient at work who babbles quite frequently at me. She always asks me the same questions, every single time she sees me on Monday, wednesdays and Fridays. She's told the same stories several times.

No, she doesn't suffer from dementia as far as I know, but she is very lonely.

~Maret
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tahai on July 20, 2010, 09:37:56 am
"Sometimes we use words to try an make ourselves seem more intelligent and for people to take us more seriously, however all we wind up doing is making ourselves look more foolish than we actually are."

When I drank a lot, I was exceedingly guilty of this.  I would spend hours in the bar pontificating on multitudes of subjects.  I look back with embarrassment now on a great many of those conversations. I still have a tendency toward being a know-it-all, but I'm working on that :D
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Niheri on July 28, 2010, 04:26:53 am
What an interesting thread! I haven't had time to read all of it yet, but as a very new newcomer indeed, it has been very enlightening.

A lot of the stuff on the earlier pages reminded me of a spiritual practice I came across years ago, called "Mental Gardening". Basically, it means "weeding" your thoughts so that you don't think anything bad or limiting about either yourself or others, and you choose your words very carefully,(eg, instead of saying, "so-and-so is an arrogant person", you could say, "so-and-so can be arrogant at times", which means you don't limit either the other person, or you own view of them, but leave room for change). It sounds straightforward, but is almost impossible to do!
(I apologise if this is not quite on topic).
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Nitimai on July 28, 2010, 04:28:28 pm
I just got done reading all of this! WOW Thank you all who have contributed.

I admit that I am a babbler... This is something I have been working on. I would like to think I have gotten better but I am not to sure.

This is a hard one indead
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on July 28, 2010, 04:30:45 pm
Yep, I am a big fat babbler. Especially a nervous babbler....
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 29, 2010, 10:52:18 am
Purification #19

Hail Goose, coming forth from Iunu, I do not argue without reason.


I do not argue without reason. This purification goes really well with the last one. How many times do we get irritated and annoyed by people who believe they know it all? This purification calls on Shu, one of the primordial gods. Shu is the air around us. We can feel Him in the wind, see Him moving the trees, and feel His presence with each breath we take.

This purification goes well in our internet-world. Here on these boards, we make posts. Some people disagree, some people are nonchalant about it, and then the inevitable flame war begins. We argue just to argue. We feel we have a moral obligation to let this “fool” know just how wrong they are. We are doing the world and everyone who reads this thread a service by clarifying the misinformation. And there is nothing wrong with clarifying information, if we are doing it for that reason. The problem seems to come from our own ego. We want to prove others are wrong, and then it makes us look better. But who is the real fool? The one making the mistake out of true ignorance or the one with the correct information proving how foolish the other is.

Argument is important. It provides learning and the development of critical thinking skills. Tibetan Buddhist monks of the Gelupa Tradition use academic argument as a means of teaching, learning, meditation, and development of the mind. But arguing for the sake of arguing easily develops into anger and attacks on the ego.

Anger is like Shu. Anger flows easily from one place to another. At one moment the anger is there, and just like the breeze, in the next moment it is gone.

Shu, Goose of Iunu, please help me to not argue without reasons. May my reasons and convictions be strong and true. May I never seek to hurt another with my arguments. May I always realize my anger is like the wind. It will not last forever. Always allow me to take a step back, regain my footing, and educate those who wish to learn.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Menemaset on July 29, 2010, 10:56:19 am
A wonderfully appropriate Purification to discuss right about now! I'll be pondering it all day and hopefully have something to add this evening. :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on July 29, 2010, 01:05:21 pm
As an old saying goes, "When arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on July 29, 2010, 01:13:12 pm
What is reason.....
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senushemi on July 29, 2010, 02:44:09 pm
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."  ~ Mark Twain

Yep. I like Mark Twain.  Could you tell?  :D

Also, my last quote I posted from him has also been attributed to Abraham Lincoln, another great man I like to quote.  :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bennu on July 29, 2010, 06:49:01 pm
I love argument in the context of debate. Nothing like a good old fashion debate to get the intellectual and cerebral juices flowing. Where argument degenerates into war, I believe, is when one feels threatened in one's paradigm and not comfortable enough to agree to disagree, enthuse about how much fun it was to debate the matter at hand, and please, let's continue this fascinating discussion over a friendly latte, shall we?  :grin:

We would probably avoid a world of hurt, misunderstanding and resentment if we learned not to take ourselves as seriously as we often do.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on July 29, 2010, 09:21:22 pm
Debate is one of the most potent tools we humans posses to spread and mingle our ideas and conceptions of the world and universe around us. Though, like this purification touches on, arguments are very negative; they cause problems that make one or the other engaged in the argument feel uncomfortable or enraged.  Now, we must not forget that sometimes argumentation in the form of teaching is necessary: The teacher needs not necessarily argue, though he/she needs to be strong in voice and opinion to instill his/her knowledge into his/her pupil.      
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 30, 2010, 12:46:04 pm
Hotep Imsetra Imsety!

Yes debate is an important tool, but I do not feel it is one of the most potent. Debate is a way for the mind to understand issues better. However if there is no growth in one's own learning, then debating just turns into babbling. I will also say that I beleive arguements can be productive and not necessarily negative. I have had many healthy arguements with those I love, employers, and in many other professional circumstances. The important concept to take about arguements, is not allowing your anger to become involved. There is a big difference in being agressive in arguement versus being assertive. It took me a long time to be less passive-agressive with people and to become more assertive. However I will say that I have a problem still with this, but I am trying to recover.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sobeqsenu on July 30, 2010, 01:49:17 pm
Em hotep, all!

This Purification has turned many interesting thoughts in my head. "I do not argue without reason." So many scenarios in which this could apply: In the home, with family members about minor inconveniences (put forks tines down in the dishwasher, not tines up!); In the workplace, about paperclip usage; With brothers and sisters in faith, about offering appropriateness... so many. This calls us to examine our hearts and minds and find what in our beliefs is truly worth fighting for, and what is worth stepping to the side quietly without dispute. What are we willing to cause strife for, to risk babbling for?

I feel it carries a corollary, as well. If we are not to argue without reason, does this mean that we are encouraged to argue when there is reason? What shall we do when we are being attacked and when we do need to stand up for ourselves and cause turmoil?

I strive daily to recognize when I should fight and when I should step aside and let the moment go. :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kehawiitu on July 31, 2010, 09:15:56 pm
I like this purification.  It doesn't tell you to never argue, but to only do so for a good reason, like when not arguing or asserting yourself would do more harm.  

A big problem with arguements, I believe, is that the participants take disagreement too personally.  "I think you are wrong" is interpreted as "I think you are stupid and don't know what you are talking about".  This person then feels the need to defend his/her ego.  The conversation quickly degenerates into an angry battle of insults and accusations.  I have seen two grown men nearly get into a fistfight arguing about what side of the road a gas station was on.

Is it really worth ruining relationships and causing turmoil over such petty things?  Or starting an arguement with someone you don't like just so you can "make them wrong" about something completely insignificant?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bennu on August 01, 2010, 01:23:24 pm
Quote from: Kehawiitu
A big problem with arguements, I believe, is that the participants take disagreement too personally.  "I think you are wrong" is interpreted as "I think you are stupid and don't know what you are talking about".  This person then feels the need to defend his/her ego.  The conversation quickly degenerates into an angry battle of insults and accusations.

This is exactly what I meant in my earlier post. All too often, we take ourselves too seriously and thus our egos are that much more susceptible to taking disagreement with our paradigms as personal attacks on our paradigms.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on August 01, 2010, 02:00:29 pm
In one of my favorite recorded talks from Alan Watts he prefaces the discussion with an invitation for the audience to leave their thoughts and opinions at the door. He then explains that he says "at the door" because they can pick them up again when they leave, if they feel uncomfortable without them.

I like this, because I do not think that there is real learning of any kind without some change in one's mental view of the world (however slight the change may be). This is also why I prefer the interplay and openness of what I would term "discussion" as opposed to "debate". Debate too often devolves into a show of who can present their ideas in the best form so as to appear "correct" to others (or to oneself). Or even into outright arguement for its own sake.

I will usually stop discussion with someone when it begins to turn into debate/arguement (unless I see/feel a compelling reason to continue). I have few uses and little desire to fight for the sake of fighting. The point when discussion becomes arguement is usually the point when people are just making noise to justify their own point of view. Trying to have a discussion with someone who is in the mood to argue can be pointless. Even if you say something worthwhile, would he or she hear it?

But exploration of thought and experience. That very much interests me. :)

Of course, there are moments where it is good and just to stand up and make one's voice heard. The progress in the fight for civil rights for all human beings across the world, for example.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Maretemheqat on August 03, 2010, 09:48:35 am
Hotep everyone!

When I was in Couples Concelling with my now Ex (Story for another day), the Concellor suggested a few things in how to argue "properly", and one of the things he suggested was not using "You" language when arguing.

What do I mean by this?

Here are some examples of "You" language:
You never take out the garbage,
You're too busy to spend time with me,
You don't listen to me at all,
You do the dishes when it's easiest for you.

"You" langauge deliberately points out faults of the other person in a fairly aggressive fashion. The Councellor suggested instead to basically get out the feelings that one feels when something comes up, and not to be the person to have the last word or to win the argument.

Case in point, I used these exact words when I was in Councelling with my now Ex:
I feel smothered when we're out in public and there's an attempted made to touch me. I feel like we're strangers because there's been a lack of intimacy, and I don't like it when strangers touch me. I prefer to have my space respected and would appriciate it if I could make the first move, if that's what I want to do.

Anyway, food for thought.

~Maret
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Nitimai on August 03, 2010, 06:51:31 pm
  The Instructions of Ptah-Hotep

Rules for Courteous Debate

If you find an debater talking, one that is well disposed and wiser than you, let your arms fall, bend your back, be not angry with him if he agrees not with you. Refrain from speaking evilly; oppose him not at any time when he speaks. If he address you as one ignorant of the matter, your humbleness shall bear away his contentions.

If you find an debater talking, your fellow, one that is within your reach, keep not silence when he says anything that is evil; so shall you be wiser than he. Great will be the applause on the part of the listeners, and your name shall be good in the knowledge of princes.

If you find an debater talking, a poor man, that is to say, not your equal, be not scornful toward him because he is lowly. Let him alone; then shall he confound himself. Question him not to please your heart, neither pour out your wrath upon him that is before you; it is shameful to confuse a mean mind. If you be about to do that which is in your heart, overcome it as a thing rejected of princes.


I found this while studding the Instructions of Ptah Hotep
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on August 03, 2010, 08:21:10 pm
Thank you for posting that Nitimai!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on August 03, 2010, 10:06:12 pm
Excellent points for debate, indeed.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Niheri on August 05, 2010, 04:37:15 pm
Sometimes comstructive argument is necessary. Stasis gets no-one anywhere... If something needs to change, it will. It may take some kind of upheaval to get there, but that is not to say that it needs to be destructive upheaval. It's more a matter of using the strife to create, or direct, energy to make something "better" happen.

Hope that made sense?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on September 01, 2010, 09:44:48 pm
Purification #20

Hail Evil One, coming forth from Ity, I do not have sex with a man’s wife.

Purification #21

Hail Blazing Snake, coming forth from the execution place, I do not have sex with a man’s wife.


Not so nice, so they said it twice. Why? Because it was important enough to say twice.

Even though the purifications are basically the same, they both call upon different aspects of Apep, the Uncreated. The Uncreated itself was in charge of making sure that this did not happen. The ancients knew that if the Uncreated is the one who will punish if this purification was not adhered to. The person would cease to exist in the past, present, and future. Frankly this was a terrible crime in the mind-set of the ancients.

These purifications talk about adultery. Adultery is frowned on in many societies. The reason being it destroys families. First let us examine why this was important to our Kemetic Akhu, and then we will discuss what this means to us today. This purification is important not for any sexual connection but because adultery was a breech of contract. Marriage was seen as a contract in Kemet. Both parties agreed to a set of conditions and followed those conditions. By living to your contract you were upholding Ma’at in your home. What they felt was wrong about adultery wasn’t a moral objection to the sex, but the violation of a vow made. We have already discussed the importance of vows in previous purifications, so I wont repeat that here. Hemet (AUS) instructs us in the purification that marriage was important because of inheritance issues and other legal benefits which are closely tied to a person’s children. Children contracted during affairs could upset the entire economic system of the house-hold, by disrupting the inheritance of the legitimate children. The act of adultery was so horrendous to the ancients that it was a crime punishable by death.

Today we as modern Kemetics come from a variety of cultures and background which make us quite unique. Where does adultery fit in? Does it still violate ma’at? Marriage remains a contract. Some religions see it as more, but for us it remains a contract. Adultery breaks that vow and disrupts ma’at. Honesty is important. If we are dishonest with the one we love, then we must be dishonest to ourselves as well.

I have difficulty with this purification. Not that I am an adulterer or anything, but I have never been married. I am in a relationship of 5 years, and we have mutual agreements. Promises we have made to each other. So if I go out and cheat with someone, then I am being dishonest to him and myself. This would disrupt ma’at in my home and my life.

We can find meanings in these purifications even if we do not think anything they say pertains to us. We can look deeper at our lives and see how some of these actions can separate us from ma’at and even disrupt our relationship with Netjer. I pray that I always remain strong in my promises and know that I love someone enough to never hurt them. Hurting him would wound me.

I wou.d love to hear from others on this purifications. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kheper on September 03, 2010, 12:21:03 pm
M Htp

@Raheri
 
Who says you aren't married?  If I recall correctly marriage was simply an agreement between two people (not necessarily of the opposite sex) to form a lasting committment to each other in order for the propagation of the species and to accomplish goals that one couldn't do alone.  Love wasn't always involved but it helps tremendously as it covers over faults one or both may exhibit during the course of the marriage.
Marriage licenses and who can and cannot be married is a recent invention and not something practiced the world over.
In ancient Israel for example when two people decided to get married the father of the bride would escort her (along with her family and the rest of the community) to her future husband's house.  Then the future husband would take her into his house in front of others and as far as the community was concerned they were now husband and wife.
I like the Wiccan perspective on this and one of the vows that is made is as follows: "We promise before the God/desses to live together in harmony for as long as love lasts."  Or something to that effect.  meaning love was the cement that held them together and so long as love was present they considered themselves married and wanted to be seen that way by the rest of the community.  However if at some point love ceased to be in the relationship, then they would split amicably.
I've never understood the concept of cheating on one's spouse.  If a person has reached the point to where they no longer want to be with that person, then they should split rather than willfully hurting the other person through adultery.  I don't believe in "it was an accident, I didn't mean to cheat."  This is my own point of view on the matter (your mileage may vary).
Even people who do not have a piece of paper saying they are married ARE in fact married (at least in my own point of view) which is why I make it a point not to flirt or respond to flirting from anyone in a relationship, unless it's polyamorous and they are seeking another person.  Polyamorous relationships can be quite complex, I've been in one myself to an extent and have been invited into others.  Trust is a key issue and not making assumptions before all the facts are in, which is only possible if there is excellent communication between all those involved.

I think I'm getting somewhat off topic.

To me, a marriage license doesn't equal a marriage, but mutual agreements between two people who care for one another does.  A marriage is simply a contract be it verbal or written.  In South Carolina there is a concept known as "Common-Law Marriage" and there has been a Bill waiting in the State House for a few years now that seeks to make Common law Marriage as valid as licensed marriage.  Common Law Marriage (in SC)is simply when two people have lived together for more than a year, share the same mailing address, have bills or bank accounts in both names or when the "wife" uses the "husband's" last name on any official documents, such as bills, mailing address or such.  There are more things to it, but that's all I can recall presently.
I think the problem that si presenting itself (at least to me) is having grown up in a Western Society under the influence of Judeo-Christian influenced laws and trying to conceive of how the ancients may have perceived certain topics such as these.  I think for my own part that I must divest myself of the J/C influences and simply consider the ancient sources on their own without any comparison's.
Basicall to quote Yoda, I must "unlearn what I have learned."  Or as Zen Buddhism teaches, to empty myself so that I can be filled.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: ubenetsenu on September 03, 2010, 03:03:06 pm
Quote from: Kheper

To me, a marriage license doesn't equal a marriage, but mutual agreements between two people who care for one another does.


i think this is a very good point.  my uncles have been in a committed relationship longer than my parents; a friend of mine is waiting for his divorce to become final.  according to pieces of embossed paper, one pair is married and the other is not; according to love and commitment, it's the other way around.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Linda on September 03, 2010, 05:19:28 pm
I agree, you don't need a piece of paper to tell you you're married, it's the commitment and love that you give to each other that does.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on September 04, 2010, 02:34:06 pm
Em-Hotep,

All in all, legal papers and jargon behind, marriage is a bond that should not be broken; and it is (as it was seen in the eyes of our Akhu)a lifelong bond of agreement and love. I feel that marriage is a subject in today's world that is taken too lightly...(Oh, we both 'love' each other, we've been dating for a few years now, let's get married... and then a few years down the line a divorce follows.)  Now, I am not saying this is how all divorces come about, and I am not saying that all divorces come about without good meaning; but in my personal opinion, if you are going to marry someone, then the love should be boundless and divorce should never cross your mind.

I feel the reason why this purification was written twice; and calls upon two 'respectable-'demons' to carryout punishment, is because the Egyptians saw the act of adultery as being the worst thing one can do to their lover.  If you took a vow to love someone for ertenity, then that it what you should do.

What I find most intriguing about this purification is, the act of adultery is not void in myth: (Nithphys betraying Set and having a child with Osiris...) Even still, the Egyptians saw that 'Just because the Netjer did it, does not make it right for us to do the same.' I think this attitude towards this subject it remarkably revealing.              
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kheper on September 05, 2010, 09:58:17 pm
M Htp!

I agree with this wholeheartedly, especially when you consider such stories as Sekhmet killing thousands of humans or Set bring storms of destruction to mankind, yet we are told we must not murder etc.  The rules that apply to Netjer and to humanity are two very different things.  I think those stories were also related to us to demonstrate what the outcome could be, if we engaged in such activities and Netjer's viewpoint on them.

Senebty,
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kehawiitu on September 06, 2010, 10:12:31 pm
I find it strange that these purifications do not say that you didn't cheat on your own spouse.  Instead it says you did not sleep with another's wife (or husband).  Whether or not you personally are married, you should not be messing up soneone else's family and relationship.  They can do that all on their own. :)  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on September 07, 2010, 01:47:05 am
Em-Hotep,

Perhaps they did not specify cheating on your own spouse because in their time, having more than one wife was commonplace: so, technically, if you slept with your first wife of Monday, then slept with your second wife of Wednesday, you were cheating on your first wife with the second...?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on September 21, 2010, 10:23:05 pm
Quote from: Kehawiitu
I find it strange that these purifications do not say that you didn't cheat on your own spouse.  Instead it says you did not sleep with another's wife (or husband).  Whether or not you personally are married, you should not be messing up soneone else's family and relationship.  They can do that all on their own. :)  

You hit the nail on the head for me. To me this purification seems to focus on harming others. Harming ones brother or harming ones spouse. By committing adultery we are breaking into someone’s house and stealing something precious. This could be trust, inheritance issues, legitimacy of family lines, and basic rights.  It also causes harm through emotional and psychological problems.

If we think about purity in these purifications, we can see that a priest would have a hard time approaching the gods in shrine. If a priest could not control his own house and not break into the house of his brother, what does that say for him as a priest? If he would do this to his fellow man, then why not to a god whom he cannot see?

I do not think  this purification focuses primarily on marriage. It involves concern for others and destroys trust. Trust in the gods and in ones fellow countryman. It destroys a vow, something we have discussed. It splinters ma’at in the individual and is an offence to ma’at. This purification goes right along with not speaking lies, making sure what comes from our mouths is keeping with one’s speech, and holding honesty as a high characteristic for all men.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on September 27, 2010, 10:46:28 pm
Purification #22

Hail Looking-upon-His-Offerings, coming forth from the House of Min, I do not engage in careless sex.


In keeping with a theme, the next purification calls on Min. I think we all know why Min is mentioned in this purification. I mean, He is quite straight forward when it comes to sex. Min was not just seen as pure sexuality, but represented growth to the ancients: the growth of the potential lying in the male sees, and the growth that can come from positive actions, especially those focused on the consenting behavior of adults.

I do not engage in careless sex. This purification has multiple translations. In Hemet’s (AUS) teachings and translations she gives us this wording. This purification speaks specifically against indiscriminate or promiscuous sex. The kind of sex we are focusing on is sex in the sense of not caring who, where, when, how, what, or why we are engaging in it with another person. In other words, being a bit skanky.

One should be true, in whatever relationship bounds they are in. Racking up a score card does not necessarily seem like actions of a just and moral person. When one engages in careless sex, they have no concern for the other persons feelings or psychological state, nor their own. People start to become objects to lust after and possess, and that is when one disconnects from the world around them.

In our day and age, promiscuous sex is a bad idea. Sexually transmitted diseases (STD) abound, some without cures. AIDS is rampant in Africa and continues to spread here in our home countries as well. Even though a diagnosis of an STD isn’t quite as devastating as it was 20 years ago, side effects from medications and the stigma associated with these diseases can still destroy lives and lead to death.

This purification in no way says that sex is bad. Sex is good. It is a wonderful gift we have from the gods, which we can share with those special to us, and can help us to be intimate in ways we cannot verbalize. It is not to be used frivolously or as entertainment. It should be respected and approached with safety, honesty, and be given out full attention.

Hemet (AUS) also states that this purification  that we can re-word this purification as I do not have sex without reason. This is a good lesson to meditate on.  What are your thoughts?

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: WindWeaver on October 03, 2010, 08:34:05 pm
Please correct me if I'm wrong... But I believe this would also cover having sex with someone you care about but do not share the same level of commitment with?

Or perhaps, even having sex with your partner without being fully present?  Simply going through the motions to get the end result without truly connecting?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Iaityinepu on October 03, 2010, 11:53:42 pm
Sorry, this post may be TMI for some people :P

Quote from: WindWeaver

Or perhaps, even having sex with your partner without being fully present?  Simply going through the motions to get the end result without truly connecting?


I am not sure if I feel comfortable with this approach to the purification.  I love my husband. I am in love with my husband.  I am in a committed, monogomous relationship with my husband.

However, our sexual needs do not always match up. Since having children, I often find myself tired.  

I do want to have sex and I do find my husband attractive, but I don't always have the energy so end up "Simply going through the motions to get the end result without truly connecting?".  If I didn't, then we'd never have sex, and this would in turn begin to affect our relationship, as some people 'need' that release and connection. (this is not to say my husband would cheat on me, however - or vice versa).

Does this mean my sex is careless?  Or that it is against Ma'at?  I don't think so.  I know what I am doing.  I enjoy it when I do it, but I am not always there at full capacity emotionally or energy-wise.  Also, sometimes I just 'go through the motions' to re-spark myself, as it may have been some time since we'd done it and I needed to be kickstarted into the swing of things again too.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: WindWeaver on October 04, 2010, 04:15:09 am
You've raised good points... I suppose what I meant was to have sex simply for the sake of having sex and not as a way to connect to your partner.

I fully understand that there are physical desires and this contact can be needed (I say can be, because not all relationships do - and that isn't a judgement call, neither way is better than the other, each relationship is different and requires different things to work).


However, I would say (again, this is only my "newbie" opinion) that these purifications are meant to be ideals for us to try to live by and thus setting the bar higher than what is easily done. (for lack of better wording).

I believe the ideal would be to fully connect when having sex with your partner.  I think that sex can still become "frivilous entertainment" and "disconnecting" even in a monogamous relationship if one does not strive to fully connect with their partner during what I consider a sacred act.

However, I may be totally off base with the interpretation of this purification.  I also recognize that what feels right for me, may not be what feels right for another.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Aashemmuti on October 04, 2010, 07:20:46 am
Quote from: Iaityinepu


Quote from: WindWeaver

Or perhaps, even having sex with your partner without being fully present?  Simply going through the motions to get the end result without truly connecting?



I do want to have sex and I do find my husband attractive, but I don't always have the energy so end up "Simply going through the motions to get the end result without truly connecting?".  If I didn't, then we'd never have sex, and this would in turn begin to affect our relationship, as some people 'need' that release and connection.



I would suggest that if you are willing to have sex with your husband, and you want to do so for above purposes, and it is *not* unenjoyable for you, then this is how you have connected. Your willingness to do so, even if you might not be *ahem* the horniest in the world on a given night, is a loving connection to your husband.

What is "Truly connecting" anyway? That is too hard to define.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: WindWeaver on October 05, 2010, 02:50:21 am
I cannot judge your intentions or connection to your husband or anyone else's... I wouldn't even begin to.  So please don't take this personally...

You can eat at a 7-11 and get full but have you really nourished your body with stale nachos and slim jims?  I totally get that it can be hard , especially with children, to maintain that sexual connection to your spouse... But even in those "we've got 5 minutes" moments it can be done with the spirit of connection, love and truth to nourish your relationship vs. just trying to get some because you need a physical release.

Again, totally NOT a judgement call on anyone's relationship.  I've been guilty of this myself.  The whole point is that Purifications are not meant to be "easy"... They are meant to be a higher ideal for us to strive for...

Sometimes we are successful, sometimes we are not... The point is to reach for something better isn't it?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kehawiitu on October 08, 2010, 08:15:00 pm
My best guess is that this purification is about sexual discretion and self-control.  There are so many ways you can physically and psychologically harm yourself and others with sexuality, and it is up to you to consider all of the consequences.  Just jumping into an experience without considering issues like diseases, pregnancy, consent, everyone's emotional needs, etc. is a recipe for trouble.

Avoiding careless sex is a matter of respecting yourself and your partner(s), not viewing them as objects to used for the  sensual pleasure and ego gratification of yourself or another.  Completely suppressing your sexuality isn't necessary, the purification doesn't say to do that.  Do not be its slave either, ruled by carnal passions and out of control. Instead master it and use it with a conscious care and discrimination.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 15, 2010, 02:21:14 am
Em-Hotep,

Being both born under Min and being his child, well, not sure how to put this, but I fell this connection with Min makes me more susceptible to the act; and this is what I fear. I have had a few long term girlfriends before, and there was a strong connection between; for how ever it long it may have lasted, though I was young... than again, I'm still young, soon to turn twenty. And now that I am single again, have lived in Cancun and now live in Cabo I find myself even more tempted by the "Part zone of Bes and Hethert' which sits right in my backyard. I will admit it, I do enjoy a party, but I know I must stay pure... and this purification, no matter how hard it is to stick to, is one that I personally strive to adhere to. I know I still have much to learn and still have much to grow, though I am glade I have these purification to guide me... this on especially.    
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Bestekeni on October 25, 2010, 03:21:52 pm
Heh, leave Bes out of this.  Wanton partying and reckless, unsafe behavior are not His domain.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 25, 2010, 06:22:59 pm
Besetekeni, why are you being so hostile! I said I lived near an area that is a prime playground for Bes and Hethert: this does not mean it to be a zone of recklessness. Just because one goes to a dance/night club does not make that a place of reckless partying. If in that place there was nothing more than people doing all manner of drugs and drinking far beyond the needed consumption and engaging in act of unlawful sex, that would make it a zone of recklessness.  An normal night club with music and fun is not a reckless zone; and Bes and Hethert and happy there :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: NiankhSekhmet on October 25, 2010, 06:33:42 pm
I am not sure I like your inference about "unlawful sex". The idea that between consenting adults it isn't the State or the Church's business. Responsible behaiviour all the way around is what is Ma'at - and the other variables that you keep harping on really are no one's business but your own.  

You seem very set, Imsety, to try to make the Negative Confession into the "laws of Ma'at" when they are nothing of the kind. I am not sure what all of this is about, but I don't feel the argument is worthy of particular note.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on October 25, 2010, 09:51:36 pm
Purification #23

Hail Heru-wer, coming forth from Yam, I do not terrorize people.


Today we look at this confession which calls to Heru-wer, son of Nut. This particular form of Heru-wer is of Yam, which is an ancient part of lower Nubia, today part of Sudan. Heru-wer has been a very popular god throughout Kemet’s history, and remains so today. He is a sky god, sun god, and the god of kingship. Calling him Lord of Terror, echoes an epitaph of Wesir as well, who was also known as Lord of Terror. Heru-wer, who invokes terror in those who are making terror, is an appropriate Name to call in this purification.

So what is terror? Terror is an intense state of fear. Terror can be caused by a person or a situation. Physical and mental violence against another person or animal can be a form of terror. Out Nisut (AUS) teaches us that not making terror would include acts of physical or mental violence, using influence to intimidate others, or simply acting in ways that inspire fear in others. Out society and world are plagued by terror. Some people live in terror if they will have a job tomorrow, some live in terror if they will have a home or food, and others live in terror because they have no safety in their own home. Governments control people and attempt to manage them through punishment and torture. Other organizations preach fear and intolerance in order to scare their followers into their beliefs.

As a child I was raised in a Pentecostal home. During my childhood I observed glossolalia (speaking in tongues), being baptized in the Spirit or being slain by the Spirit, and of course healings. In a young age, the coming of the Rapture and Apocalypse was hard wired in my brain to be happening very soon. If I did not give my heart to Jesus I would not be caught up in the Rapture, instead I would be left behind to live in the world of the Anti-Christ. If I died there, my soul would be swept to hell for all eternity.

Pretty cheerful stuff, right? It was terror into believing. If I didn’t believe then I would be tortured for all eternity. Spiritual terrorism in essence. This type of terrorism is so rampant today. If you don’t follow the rules, if you are not in the norm, if you are different according to the “natural laws” then you can look forward to eternal damnation.

I hope I am not the only one who can see how ignorant, intolerant, and sad this is. It deeply moves my ka to tears to think of all the ancestors who have experienced this in the past, for all those you are terrorized like this today.

“Heru-wer, Lord of Terror, help those who cannot help themselves. Those who are threatened, abused (physically and mentally), put down, insulted, all because of who they are. May those who are in religious groups which are intolerant of differences, those who do not rejoice in diversity, find peace from their persecutors and happiness in their lives on earth. And may I be a vessel of that peace in any way I can, and share my love, smile, courage, and stories and help even just one.”

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Padjaiemweru on October 26, 2010, 12:09:56 am
wonderful prayer at the end
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: WindWeaver on October 28, 2010, 12:37:11 pm
I agree... very beautiful prayer at the end!  Thank you for this post... I hadn't thought about the religious aspect of this as I, too - like so many, grew up with the "fear" of god's wrath... I think it's also poignant to note this purification when we are in a time of such bullying of others, children and adults alike.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senneferet on October 28, 2010, 02:35:11 pm
Why do you define as being 'pure' Imsetra? Sex, alcohol and enjoying the life Netjer gave us (in moderation and responsibly) are not deemed as sin from what I can see. How is a celibate person more 'pure' than one that engages in sex in a loving and spiritual way?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 28, 2010, 06:31:10 pm
Quote from: Senneferet
Why do you define as being 'pure' Imsetra? Sex, alcohol and enjoying the life Netjer gave us (in moderation and responsibly) are not deemed as sin from what I can see. How is a celibate person more 'pure' than one that engages in sex in a loving and spiritual way?


Let me make it clear that I do not believe in sin :) ... as it is defined by a Christian dictionary; though, I do believe we can all do 'bad' things which Netjer may not like or that they frown upon: this does not make them sin. What I meant by pure was not being celibate; and by no means do I believe I am more pure than another. One can by all means have a good time and enjoy all the fun things Netjer has given us. Though, through my own eyes, if one simply does these thing for the personal satisfaction, and engages in sexual pleasure with anyone anytime just for satisfaction: this just seems shallow to me; something Netjer would not like. Like I have mentioned I have a girl back home in the States; so I do not want to dishonor her by pleasuring myself with the many beautiful woman who are here. Do you find it alright to cheat on your other? Because I know I don't.      
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Hemka on October 28, 2010, 08:59:28 pm
Emhotep Imsetra,

Adultery and the other prohibitions of the Confessions are wrong because they create Isfet,Literally it uncreates reality to do evil,tell lies etc.And one of the worst sins is to "eat ones heart out"that is to allow ones self the luxury of anger,envy hatred(even for sin)
Laughter,beauty, goodness,and everything that build up creation nourish Netjer and our own ka.And I think its a lot easier to build up rather than always fretting about the Judgment.As long as one is in this life they will give you the chance and the means to amend whatever errors you make.Though the servant is quick to sin,Netjer are swift to forgive.(to paraphrase an ancient prayer to Amun.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 29, 2010, 02:00:48 am
Em-Hotep-Rh'ekh,

Thank you for your words of wisdom Hemka :) . My original post here was in regards to my own life and own situation. If one, in my honest opinion, is single than what has been discussed above regarding the previous Confession/Purification is acceptable. I never meant for people to get the impression that I believe that having fun or pleasure is a horrid act; all good things in moderation! ;) . I simply stated my own reasoning/view of this Confession as it pertains to my life.

Also, may I make a statement to NiankhSekhmet: You posted above: “I am not sure I like your inference about "unlawful sex". The idea that between consenting adults isn't the State or the Church's business. Responsible behaiviour all the way around is what is Ma'at...”  This is very true, and I have not contradicted this. Though, may I sate this: Can one call 'careless sex' as this Confession calls upon, fully consensual between two adults who are either to drunk or to 'horny' to make a rational decision? If one is unable to make a rational decision that they can't fully contemplate, be it due to an outside impalement of their judgment, than does that not make the consent to engage in 'sex' corrupted?
 
Also, in my view of this Confession, 'careless sex' does not solely pertain to two married, or in love, people deciding to have sex just for the fulfillment; it leans also towards people who just have sex with other people to have sex. How is this nothing more than self-gratification? How is this not going against this Confession?

If I may, allow me to share a story about a friend of mine which runs along the parameters of this Confession: (For his privacy I will refer to him as X.)

Now, X had a girlfriend throughout high-school, and they were very much in love with each other.  They met each other sophomore year and never dated anyone else throughout high-school but each other. After senior year, X went off to join the army and his girlfriend said she would wait for him. Well, she did, and when he returned after two years they got back together and soon married. X would go away on vacation with friends (including me) and would sleep with countless girls. I recall one year in particular when we went to Cancun, he met a drunk girl in a bar. He took her around back an engaged in sex with her on the beach and after that they both went their separate ways... before the night was over, he met another girl he took back to the hotel. This went on for years, may it be that he went away on vacation or for business, he would always engage in sex with other woman and come home to make love to his wife.  Well, after five year of being married the guilt finally ate away at him and he told his wife about everything.  Needless to say she was irate and kicked him out. Now he is living with the pain of his actions; desiring to go back with his high-school sweetheart, but she wants nothing to do with him. Throughout all the years I told my older friend X what he was doing was wrong and would come back to haunt him. In reply to this he told me that I just did not have the balls of a true man; and that what he was doing with all these woman was in a scene 'make up time' for all the years he lost being a teen and having fun because he was with is one girlfriend.  Is what he did right? Is what he did moral? I cannot agree with this... What he did was without doubt wrong and went against not just these Confessions... but against moral law.

This is what I mean by 'unlawful' sex: or as this Confession puts it, Careless Sex. How is what my friend did anything but going against this, and a few others, Confession?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senneferet on October 29, 2010, 08:23:08 am
Thank you for clarifying things Imsetra, I despise cheats in all their forms as well as people who sleep around and do not respect themselves or their partners (this does not apply to polyamorous or swingers, who conduct their lifestyle with caution and dignity imho)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tahai on October 29, 2010, 09:07:30 am
In my opinion, the only "unlawful sex" occurs when 1.  someone is being forced or coerced, 2. someone is breaking a willingly given vow, or 3. someone is knowingly spreading illness via sexual activity.

Other than that, it's all good.  Sex and Sexuality are so much a part of kemetic history, both the Akhu and the Gods, that I don't view it in any way to be a bad thing, as long as the above 3 conditions are avoided.

Senebty,

Tahai
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senneferet on October 29, 2010, 09:33:47 am
I think I may be a little bit jaded from my teen years. All my friends were sleeping around and taking drugs but I never joined in. I guess I saw what messes they became and wrongly associated that with the promiscuity. Don't get me wrong, I love sex. I suppose some people, including myself, have to un-programme what society and years of repression has also taught us about sex.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on October 29, 2010, 10:25:49 am
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Em-Hotep,

All in all, legal papers and jargon behind, marriage is a bond that should not be broken; and it is (as it was seen in the eyes of our Akhu)a lifelong bond of agreement and love.              


Um, actually I've read quite a bit about how this doesn't seem to have always been the case. I've seen quite a bit about what we would consider "divorce documents" or the splitting of partnerships. I don't think it's wise to assume that the AEs always looked at it that way.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on October 29, 2010, 10:36:59 am
Quote from: Tahai
In my opinion, the only "unlawful sex" occurs when 1.  someone is being forced or coerced, 2. someone is breaking a willingly given vow, or 3. someone is knowingly spreading illness via sexual activity.

Other than that, it's all good.  Sex and Sexuality are so much a part of kemetic history, both the Akhu and the Gods, that I don't view it in any way to be a bad thing, as long as the above 3 conditions are avoided.

Senebty,

Tahai


Well said Tahai!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Aashemmuti on October 29, 2010, 11:19:04 am
It is my opinion that sex is over-rated and that our society focuses too much on it. However, that is just my feeling and opinion, perhaps because I have a low sex drive.

I feel that so long as it is between consenting adults, and substances are not being abused as part of the relationship, there are many variations of sexual activity that can take place within ma'at.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senneferet on October 29, 2010, 11:53:09 am
I have mixed feelings on divorce. Obviously it would be great if everyone could get along and stay in love forever but more often than not,  forcing a relationship it is actually damaging to both children and parents. What if one partner is incredibly unhappy or is being abused?

Also, wasn't the AE view on marriage completely different to ours? Correct me if I am wrong but over the years I have been studying (17 years and with a degree under my belt) I always assumed there was no legal paperwork or formal ceremony behind their marriages. It was a union of lives and property where the couple would set up home together and have children.

I suppose the nearest thing we have to it today is common-law marriage. My parents have been together to nearly thirteen years without signing any documents and they have a good relationship. However if things turned sour and they decided to split I would support them in this.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on October 29, 2010, 02:29:55 pm
"I do not terrorize people."

In the most obvious sense, I think this holds true for me. Insofar as I am reasonably certain that no one has ever felt a chill of fear when I walked into a room. I am not a physically intimidating figure. Although tall and somewhat athletic, I am on the lean side of things. I have a goofy sense of humor that is well known among my friends, family, and coworkers. And I think people are more prone to categorize me as the "dreaming optimist" or "absent minded professor" than the "walking terror".

But fear and violence manifest themselves in sneaky ways sometimes. For one, I practice the martial arts. And while I am certainly no intimidating kung fu master, I do sometimes question the philosophical defense of martial arts as not being violence in themselves. Am I really just being a mirror reflecting motion back at the attacker. Or does some part of me enjoy this? If so, am I reconciled with that instinct. Does it have its place, too?

And sometimes, my sarcasm and wit take me too far. I was raised in a household where scathing, acidic humor among family members was the rule. And so I have developed a strange "over the top" sense of humor as a sort of safety measure, to ensure that others obviously know when I am joking. But I'm not sure this works as well as it is intended too.

And I know that I am capable of the anger necessary to hurt people. I have felt wrath that courses through the veins and makes the body itch to hurt another in any possible way. Restraining and diffusing that is an empathy for others.

And then there is the matter of terrorizing oneself. I must admit that while I am usually quick to forgive others, I am very slow to forgive myself sometimes. My flaws and failings disappoint me. My anger disturbs me. And I let myself feel fear when presented with challenges. Am I not terrorizing myself when I indulge in these habits?

My hope is that terror cannot hold onto me unless I am also holding onto it. And that someway, somehow, all the terror in the world is somehow absorbed, digested, and integrated into a more wondrous and beautiful totality. It is easier to see this some days than on others.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on October 29, 2010, 02:39:06 pm
Quote from: Imsetra
Also, in my view of this Confession, 'careless sex' does not solely pertain to two married, or in love, people deciding to have sex just for the fulfillment; it leans also towards people who just have sex with other people to have sex. How is this nothing more than self-gratification? How is this not going against this Confession?

Some people enjoy sex for the sake of sex. They may go to swingers parties, they may go out to clubs specifically for their kink, they may look people up online they will sexually connect with. They may be in a committed relationship and have permission to go and fulfill their urges with other people.

Are they creating isfet for enjoying the act of sex? I do not believe so. You are wrongly equating "just having sex for the sake of sex" with cheating/adultery. Sometimes when I have sex with my partner, it has nothing to do with him being my partner, I don't care that he's my partner, it's just about sex.

The idea you create here is that sex without love, the act of sex, is inherantly wrong. It needs something to 'make it right', 'make it okay', 'make it Ma'at'. Be that love, a relationship, a marriage, whatever. Sex doesn't need permission to be natural and enjoyable and good.



Quote from: Tahai
In my opinion, the only "unlawful sex" occurs when 1.  someone is being forced or coerced, 2. someone is breaking a willingly given vow, or 3. someone is knowingly spreading illness via sexual activity.

This is how I see it. Only in these kinds of situations is wrong being done. "Safe, sane, and consensual" are the mottos of kink communities, and should be the ideals behind all sexual contact. Beyond that? Who are we to judge.

We call people promiscuous, we condemn them for it, even I do it. But so long as they are using protection, know what they're doing, and aren't doing it for the wrong reasons (mental ill health, eg negative reaction to past trauma, or nymphomania) then all they are doing is enjoying themselves, such as any of us has the right to.


If no one, absolutely no one, is getting hurt, then define how and why it is wrong.


~Isha
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 30, 2010, 03:49:45 pm
All in all, I do believe in 'all good things in moderation,' that is just me :) . Though, I do find it very interesting that we are the only creations of Khnum who engage in sex just to have sex. All of his other creatures only engage in sex once or twice a year to procreate.

(In Regards to the "I do not Terrorize" Confession/Purification)

I think you made a wonderful point Wolf_Cub on self terrorizing. I think we all end up terrorizing ourselves from time to time; and it does seem like not engaging in this act is more difficult because it is forced onto ourselves and not another. Many times I find that I can be my own worse enemy when trying to figure things out that just rattle my mind.

Also, I feel this confession does not hinder heavily on religious terrorizing. Seeing as when it was written Judaism was not around or just in its primordial developing stages; nor was Christianity and Islam around. Today yes, most defiantly can we look at this confession and superimpose it onto religious terrorizing because we know far to well what other religions are capable of or have done in the past... ex: The Inquisition. I could go on about how I see these other religions trying to justify their 'terrorism' (no pun intended) on other faiths and peoples; though, best I leave that for another time and place.

We should also see this as not terrorizing each other. I think that is how the Akhu would have viewed it more likely: not terrorizing your neighbors or acquaintances and friends. Terrorizing does not necessarily drive right into the notion of causing spine-tingling fear; terrorizing could also be viewed as simply pestering or bullying. We all know that there is a lot of bullying going around these days, and not just in schools; where bullying in some states has been taken to such extremes as to be a criminal punishment if escalated. Honestly I think that is overly harsh, because the underlying problem behind a child bullying another is due to bad parenting (parenting not only from the child's parents but from mentors like teachers.) I have come to find, by event in my life, most people these days simply do not want to deal with anyone else's issues; and this is why problems like bullying or terrorizing arise. I feel the only way we can truly stop these kinds of act is to simply be with each other; listen to each other; and just be civil/human. Sometimes we all get to caught up in our own realities to realize that most issues in this world that we see as being to big to handle could have been prevented by such a simply act of compassion.

Senabty
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senneferet on October 30, 2010, 05:01:52 pm
Dolphins have sex for the pleasure, and after seeing the latest video featuring a rude monkey I wonder if they 'fornicate' too! :o
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: ubenetsenu on October 30, 2010, 05:05:12 pm
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Though, I do find it very interesting that we are the only creations of Khnum who engage in sex just to have sex. All of his other creatures only engage in sex once or twice a year to procreate.


that's actually a common myth. at the very least, bonobos and dolphins also have sex "just" to have sex; plenty of other animals also engage in sexual behavior that is not strictly procreative.

http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/pleasure.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on October 30, 2010, 05:39:09 pm
very interesting stuff! i never knew this before... though, these creatures, like us, are classified as mammals... do animals from the other kingdoms do this as well?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Iaityinepu on October 31, 2010, 03:56:26 am
Quote from: Senneferet
Dolphins have sex for the pleasure, and after seeing the latest video featuring a rude monkey I wonder if they 'fornicate' too! :o


If that's the same video I saw, then I wonder the same thing :D

I thought This Article (http://www.helium.com/items/104268-species-other-than-humans-that-have-sex-for-pleasure) made an interesting point "Most animals cannot understand that by having sex, they will reproduce. It is said that reproduction in animals is a natural instinct. In fact, this natural instinct is pleasure (orgasm)"

But I guess that doesn't explain why organisms that only have sex once (like the male, black widow spider and many insects) have sex, if they are doing it for pleasure?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: WindWeaver on November 01, 2010, 01:56:17 am
Perhaps it is this innate and evolutionary pull to "procreate" to continue their own species?  Ultimately, in our basest forms isn't all creation a continuous cycle of birth, maturity, reproduction and death?  But that is sort of off the subject I think.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on November 01, 2010, 11:08:21 am
Evolutionary pull to mate, but it's unlikely they realise that the reason they mate is to procreate. Basically.

Even if they don't specifically do it for pleasure (even though it may be pleasurable), they don't do it to make babies. They do it because they feel the need to.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on November 02, 2010, 12:26:20 pm
Quote from: Senneferet
Dolphins have sex for the pleasure


Ahhh....you beat me to it...
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on November 02, 2010, 12:30:50 pm
Quote from: Senneferet
I always assumed there was no legal paperwork or formal ceremony behind their marriages. It was a union of lives and property where the couple would set up home together and have children.

 


Well, I've read about "divorce papers" in a manner of speaking. Wife gets this, husband gets that, wife gets child one, husband child two, or whatnot. Would seem to me that you went in with what you had, and left with the same, or near-and anything accumulated was divided equitably. If I am remember correctly.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Devo on November 02, 2010, 12:47:36 pm
Quote from: Ta_Imu_Aset

Well, I've read about "divorce papers" in a manner of speaking. Wife gets this, husband gets that, wife gets child one, husband child two, or whatnot. Would seem to me that you went in with what you had, and left with the same, or near-and anything accumulated was divided equitably. If I am remember correctly.


There are contracts still surviving btwn some marriages in AE. Sometimes things were split up evenly- but not always. Some contracts had clauses in them, where if one party cheated on the other, they could lose their belongings, if the non-cheating member decided they wanted to break up, etc. Much like with wills- there were no hard and fast rules. Also, the contract of marriage was also optional. It's generally considered that you didn't make a contract unless you actually had stuff to lose.

-Devo
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kehawiitu on November 03, 2010, 06:00:51 pm
Of all the nasty things mentioned in the Purifications, I'd say that the terrorizing others is the most prevalent in society.  Terrorists do it.  Governments do it.  Gangs, police, businesses, abusive individuals, and, as in Raheri's example, religions  all invoke fear to control people.

Everday people do it too.  Threats and intimidation are easy to fall back upon if one feels backed into a corner.  "Do what I want I'll expose your secrets, abandon you, stop giving you the  money you live upon, beat you to a bloody pulp, stop loving you, etc."   I don't think there is always a sense of maliciousness behind it.  Heck, one may even feel justified for terrorizing someone that "deserves it" or "brought it upon themself".  Religious fear-mongers probobly believe they are doing your soul a favor.    

What to do about this?  I have no idea.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Qefathethert on November 20, 2010, 10:37:11 am
Quote from: Raheri
Purification #10

Hail Bright-Flame, coming forth from Ptah’s temple in Mennefer, I do not dislike myself.


All I can say is just look at how simple this statement is, and how much meaning it conveys. It is incredible and extremely powerful. In this purification we call on Sekhmet, the beloved wife of Ptah. Sekhmet is a beautiful Name who can show us what self-love is.

How often to we say things about ourselves which degrade us, and make us dislike ourselves? How many of us can look into that me and tell that person that you love them. If you can, then I envy you. Many times in my life I have not liked the person I am. I could go on and on about the punishments I have inflicted on myself in my life because I thought I was a horrible being. Thanks to Netjer, especially Wesir and Aset, I can say I like myself. I am proud of the man I have become. Am I perfect? No. Do I need work? Of course. Striving to achieve to be the best person you can be is a daily exercise. It is something we should constantly strive for.

I thank Sekhmet for her power of purification. I pray that she makes me pure, and that she drives out all self-pity and self-disgust. I have an activity for all of us to do. Tonight I am going to look into the mirror. I am going to talk to that person on the other side. I am going to tell Raheri that I love him just the way he is, and how loved he is by God. Try this purification exercise.

Senebty,
Raheri


I haven't even made it through half of this thread, but as soon as I got here, my stomach dropped. No kidding. I can't even recount all the horrible things I've said about/done to myself if I sat here and typed all week. All year. I have lots of work in this area, and that's putting it lightly.

Raheri, I'll definitely try your exercise. I'll likely have to ask for help from Netjer, but, I'll do my best.

Also, your avatar cracks me up. :D Just wanted to let ya know.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Qefathethert on November 20, 2010, 10:57:39 am
Quote from: Senushemi
For example, telling yourself that you're stupid when I seriously doubt anyone here actually *is* stupid is not only a lie, but it is definitely bad heka and damaging to oneself.  Sure, we've all done stupid things in our lives, but on the whole we are not stupid people; everyone makes mistakes now and again, yes?  A one time event certainly doesn't define the whole person.  :)


Oh man, I'm laid open again here. My boyfriend gets so frustrated with me on this very thing. I call myself stupid all the time, and it's a horrible habit. And he usually says "You are NOT stupid, I wouldn't be with you if you were! STOP SAYING THAT!"
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Qefathethert on November 20, 2010, 12:07:50 pm
Whew, got through the whole thread! Lots of awesome and interesting things to think about. I'll think more on them, especially the ones I mentioned above.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sekhenetnut on November 20, 2010, 02:04:18 pm
The first time I read the tenth purification, I actually stopped and grimaced. I stood there for a minute, my Mother and Beloveds patiently waiting until I acknowledged it was something I still had to work on, a lot.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on November 20, 2010, 05:12:54 pm
Purification #24

Hail Overthrower, coming forth from Qis, I do not lead myself astray.


The first time I ever read this purification I just kind of skimmed over it and did not think much from it, but today.....wow. I do not lead myself astray. We hear so much in the news and through gossip about people who are lead astray by drugs, poor lifestyle choices, alcohol, cults, and peer pressure. Do we ever really think how one can lead oneself astray? What is my behavior going to result in? Is this helping me or harming me?

The Overthrower from Qis, according to Hemet (AUS), is Heru. Heru is a protector and warrior. He reminds us not to lie to others or ourselves. When we lead ourselves astray, we mislead or lie to ourselves. It is so easy to lie to oneself. Especially for those things that we see no immediate effect from. This hamburger will taste yummy and do nothing to my cholesterol. It would be even yummier with melted cheese and grilled onions on it!

Sometimes we lie to ourselves deeply. Our actions, behaviors, and thoughts are all examples of what we lie about. For years and years, I looked at myself everyday in the mirror and lied. I acted and tried being someone who I was not. Someone who was all an act and for show. I was not true to myself. And it took a goddess with love and big wings to get it through my head, that I did not have to live that lie. Once we start lying to ourselves, we break open the door to other issues. We start to eat our own heart. We start damaging ourselves with lies. We start disliking ourselves.

We can lie to the world and we can lie to ourselves, but we cannot lie to Netjer. Netjer sees right through our acts and cover-ups. Netjer sees us as we really are. Despite this, they still love us.

"Heru, great Overthrower of Qis! Help me to overthrow my own self-destruction. Protect me from the lies which easily come into my mind. Help me see them for what they are. And when I see the results of these actions and how they hurt the greatest of Netjer's creation, may I dispel them and scatter them to the four winds. May I live in ma'at and know I am that creation."

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Qefathethert on November 20, 2010, 08:47:28 pm
Quote from: Nitimai
 The Instructions of Ptah-Hotep

Rules for Courteous Debate

If you find an debater talking, one that is well disposed and wiser than you, let your arms fall, bend your back, be not angry with him if he agrees not with you. Refrain from speaking evilly; oppose him not at any time when he speaks. If he address you as one ignorant of the matter, your humbleness shall bear away his contentions.

If you find an debater talking, your fellow, one that is within your reach, keep not silence when he says anything that is evil; so shall you be wiser than he. Great will be the applause on the part of the listeners, and your name shall be good in the knowledge of princes.

If you find an debater talking, a poor man, that is to say, not your equal, be not scornful toward him because he is lowly. Let him alone; then shall he confound himself. Question him not to please your heart, neither pour out your wrath upon him that is before you; it is shameful to confuse a mean mind. If you be about to do that which is in your heart, overcome it as a thing rejected of princes.


I found this while studding the Instructions of Ptah Hotep


I should have this by my computer at all times! I need to remember this, and aspire to it.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on November 20, 2010, 09:06:03 pm
Em-Hotep-Rh'ekh,

This is a very important purification, I think. It helps use understand what kind of life we are living; as if to step back and look in from afar. I personal strive to not lead myself astray; in fear that I might end up doing more harm to myself than good. Honestly, I think i might be too protective of myself... I sit there and think about all possible outcomes to a situation. Sometimes this make me think I am a little crazy, worrying to much about an outcome; though when the outcome eventual falls to my favor, I thank myself for not going astray and thinking before I act. :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on November 20, 2010, 09:24:20 pm
"I do not lead myself astray." To be astray, to be lost off of the correct path.

I agree with Raheri. Lieing to oneself rarely results in anything of benefit. For ourselves or others. Again, honesty is the key. And honesty demands a clear vision. You cannot be honest if you shut your eyes tight. Nor can you be honest if you only focus on one thing to the exclusion of all others.

But. There is an ornery, spiritual wanderlust in me. And that word "astray" just sticks in my craw, because of it. Yes, we can become lost. And being lost is dangerous. But is being lost a matter of being off of the road? Or is it a matter of having lost one's perspective of relation to things?

I think spiritual and moral traditions are useful, precisely because they are like paved roads. Offering smoother, more efficient progress with the comforting presence of the company of our fellow human beings. And when we veer off course, we can enter into the wilderness of the soul. And that is not an especially forgiving place to be. "Here there be dragons," as they say.

And yet, as Tolkien wrote, "Not all those who wander are lost." I think that there is a perspective that sees opportunity and crystal clear pathways where others see only obstacles. And as a matter of personal temperment, I think some enjoy driving the highways and others enjoy hiking the hills. Honesty, however, is equally necessary for both. After all, one can get just as lost on the roads as in the woods.

We all need to take moments to be utterly honest with ourselves. Ask ourselves: What is this path that I am on? Who is it that walks this path? Where is it going? The answers tell us much about ourselves, and the kind of people we choose to be.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Devo on November 22, 2010, 01:05:50 pm
Quote from: Lunatic_Heathen


Oh man, I'm laid open again here. My boyfriend gets so frustrated with me on this very thing. I call myself stupid all the time, and it's a horrible habit. And he usually says "You are NOT stupid, I wouldn't be with you if you were! STOP SAYING THAT!"  


I constantly have to tell my s.o. not to do that. That it is hurtful for me to watch him do that to himself. Slowly, over the years, he has dropped how often he belittles himself. It's a nice change.

-Devo
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: HenutPtah on November 23, 2010, 10:52:22 pm
Quote from: Wolf_Cub
But. There is an ornery, spiritual wanderlust in me. And that word "astray" just sticks in my craw, because of it. Yes, we can become lost. And being lost is dangerous. But is being lost a matter of being off of the road? Or is it a matter of having lost one's perspective of relation to things?


I think that this purification pertains to being willfully lost and untruthful with yourself. I think the saying, "Old enough to know better and still too young to care" is an excellent example of what this confession seeks to address.

I also think that you have some very excellent points to the effect that no two people will ever travel the exact same road and that regardless of which path you take, honesty is always tantamount to having a fulfilling journey.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kehawiitu on November 28, 2010, 11:58:46 pm
This purification reminds me reminds me of something a high school english teacher told my class years ago.  He was expaining the difference between being ignorant, dumb, and stupid.  His illustrative example was plagiarism, in an effort to stop us from plagiarizing of course.  To copy his example because I can't think of anything better:
Ignorance would be to simply not know what plagiarism was and to do it without realizing that what you are doing is not okay.
Dumbness is generally not paying close enough attention.  One could forget to put in a citation or put a wrong name in a reference.
Stupidity would be to know full well what you are doing and the possible consequences, but you still copy-paste that Wikipedia paragraph into your essay anyways.
To lead oneself astray is to be stupid.

Quote from: HenutPtah
I think that this purification pertains to being willfully lost and untruthful with yourself. I think the saying, "Old enough to know better and still too young to care" is an excellent example of what this confession seeks to address.


Yeah, that.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Seperenamunra on December 24, 2010, 01:45:30 am
Quote from: Raheri
Purification #22

Hail Looking-upon-His-Offerings, coming forth from the House of Min, I do not engage in careless sex.


In keeping with a theme, the next purification calls on Min. I think we all know why Min is mentioned in this purification. I mean, He is quite straight forward when it comes to sex. Min was not just seen as pure sexuality, but represented growth to the ancients: the growth of the potential lying in the male sees, and the growth that can come from positive actions, especially those focused on the consenting behavior of adults.

I do not engage in careless sex. This purification has multiple translations. In Hemet’s (AUS) teachings and translations she gives us this wording. This purification speaks specifically against indiscriminate or promiscuous sex. The kind of sex we are focusing on is sex in the sense of not caring who, where, when, how, what, or why we are engaging in it with another person. In other words, being a bit skanky.

One should be true, in whatever relationship bounds they are in. Racking up a score card does not necessarily seem like actions of a just and moral person. When one engages in careless sex, they have no concern for the other persons feelings or psychological state, nor their own. People start to become objects to lust after and possess, and that is when one disconnects from the world around them.

In our day and age, promiscuous sex is a bad idea. Sexually transmitted diseases (STD) abound, some without cures. AIDS is rampant in Africa and continues to spread here in our home countries as well. Even though a diagnosis of an STD isn’t quite as devastating as it was 20 years ago, side effects from medications and the stigma associated with these diseases can still destroy lives and lead to death.

This purification in no way says that sex is bad. Sex is good. It is a wonderful gift we have from the gods, which we can share with those special to us, and can help us to be intimate in ways we cannot verbalize. It is not to be used frivolously or as entertainment. It should be respected and approached with safety, honesty, and be given out full attention.

Hemet (AUS) also states that this purification  that we can re-word this purification as I do not have sex without reason. This is a good lesson to meditate on.  What are your thoughts?

Senebty,
Raheri
 


I think that when speaking of careless sex a lot goes into the topic. However, the Gods created sex for us to enjoy and so we do. It certainly is not something to be taken lightly. IN my opinion, it is not wrong or considered "careless sex" if you have sex before you are married. But I do think you should take all things into consideration. Sleeping around is definitly a bad thing. But if two adults happen to have sex willingly then I don't believe there is a problem. For example, having a "smush" room like on jersey shore is a real problem. They are the type of people that have carless sex. You could also say it is having sex without a condom. But for example, if I were to go out to a party and end up having sex with someone, as long as we were both aware adn willing, I think netjer does not per se have a problem with this.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Seperenamunra on December 24, 2010, 01:51:12 am
Also, how does Porn fit into this. Is it considered "careless" or not. Also, to add to the previous post, there is evidence of accepted "ritual" prostituion in ancient Kemet. How does this figure into "careless sex".

I guess none of this really matters much for me because I do not have sex often. lol. but it is interesting.

There is plenty of evidence to say that the ancient Kemetics had sex before marriage, even possibly promiscuous sex. How does this figure in? How am I to view this? Please tell me honestly, not what sounds good. Thanks.

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Seperenamunra on December 24, 2010, 01:54:40 am
One more thing. sorry. Lol. I know that KO has several Homosexual members. This is totally ok with me. However, one translation that I read of the Confessions mentions "I have not lain with men." So what are your thoughts? Is homosexuality really ok, or have we changed with the times? Or was this just a homophobic person who wrote this translation? And was homosexuality apart of Netjer's plan in the beginning? If not, where did it come from?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 24, 2010, 08:32:04 am
Quote from: Tutankhheru
One more thing. sorry. Lol. I know that KO has several Homosexual members. This is totally ok with me. However, one translation that I read of the Confessions mentions "I have not lain with men." So what are your thoughts? Is homosexuality really ok, or have we changed with the times? Or was this just a homophobic person who wrote this translation? And was homosexuality apart of Netjer's plan in the beginning? If not, where did it come from?  

This translation comes from an older translation. It is often mistranslated and since our understanding of Middle Egyptian continues to grow, so do our translations. Translations are not infallible. Please see the threads I linked to on your question on the Ask the Nisut thread for more detailed answers.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on December 28, 2010, 02:22:19 pm
Purification #25

Hail Binder-of-Speech, coming forth from the Inundation, I do not enflame myself.


This purification is a self-contained anger management class. It talks about enflaming oneself, or making oneself on fire. It refers to anger as a fire that burns and consumes everything. It will consume even its own fuel until it dies. Except this fire is burning in our own heart.

Anger is a powerful emotion that can come easily to all of us. It also can be justified as easily. For don’t we all generally feel that our anger is appropriate.

“He pulled out in front of me! Why shouldn’t I give him the finger and ride his bumper!”

“She should have not been so rude. I will show her what rude really is.”

“But someone on the Internet is wrong!”


Hemet (AUS) refers us to the writings of Ptahhotep, and the wisdom texts of Kemet. They frequently refer to the silent man or the calm man; one who is in control o their emotions and steady and unmoving. The texts tell us to allow people to vent in their anger. Let them blow of some steam. I always feel better about screaming and yelling behind closed doors. By venting, we allow that fire in our heart to be quenched. As a brother and sister to others, we should allow others t vent their feelings, listen, and just be there. They call this active listening, and it is a wonderful therapeutic technique.

It seems appropriate that this purification calls on the one who can bind speech. Speech itself is a fuel to anger at times and can cause the fire to burn brighter and fiercer. It also calls to Him who comes from the Inundation. The Inundation brings the rising waters. They can quench the fire and stop it from consuming. The water can extinguish in an instant what nothing else can.

Does this mean we should never speak our mind? No. It means we should think twice or three times before we open our mouths or let our fingers do some walking. A calm person can debate an argument without anger, and feel even more passionate about it then one enflamed.

What are your thoughts?

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Maretemheqat on December 29, 2010, 09:48:34 pm
Hotep Raheri!

Thanks for posting this, and really, I should be taking this particular one to heart.

Far too often, I find myself angry, and far too often, I keep things bottled to myself. Things are better now that I have removed a major source of my stress and irritation, and have found someone that I can vent to appropriately when I need to. I find getting it out is much better than just letting it simmer and get to the boil where it almost boils over.

Recall The Simpson's episode when Homer gives Lisa the advice of just putting her anger into a little bitter ball of rage and releasing it at an inappropriate time... that was me. Holding things down until I would boil over, which is NOT healthy. People often get confused as to why you're angry, and when you explain to them why you are, chances are they'll look at you like you've sprouted a third head because they've already moved past the issue weeks ago.

Walking away from a source of anger is a good thing, if only because it allows you to cool off before opening your mouth and inserting your foot. But it's also good not to let too much time pass. People, like cats, have short attention spans. If it's really a big issue that's got you white hot under the collar, I'd sleep on it first before making any decisions.

Thanks for this Raheri!

Senebty!
~Maret
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shefytbast on December 31, 2010, 02:14:20 pm

Em hotep, Raheri! ^_^

I think this can be read as a great statement about not meeting anger with anger and thus escalating a situation. Meeting anger with silence--not feeding it with the breath of life contained in our words--and with a cool heart and a clear head can go a long way toward keeping things from getting too hot.

Also, the purification says "I do not enflame myself." Other people don't really *make* us be angry. We might respond to something that they've said or done with anger, either justified or not, but that anger is our own internal reaction. And if we own it, then we can choose to control it and to keep it from blazing out of control.

Sometimes venting our anger is helpful, but there may come a point where we're just replaying old grievances over and over. The time may come when we need to let go, to let the floods wash away that habitual and ingrained anger, and to move on.

Senebty,

Shefyt
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Niheri on February 01, 2011, 05:58:49 am
Em hotep, Raheri.

I think this is an ongoing process for all of us, especially within relationships. As Shefytbast said, above, we can get stuck in a pattern where old ground and old grievances can be constantly stirred up, especially when other stresses, such as financial worries exacerbate the situation. I try very hard these days not to "fan the flames" of arguments,(same old ones, usually), which usually occur when my husband is very tired or having issues at work. Likewise, it can be difficult not to rise to the bait with my 15 year old daughter, who can make some very hurtful remarks when she's angry. I try to take a mental step backwards, and there is usually some truth in what the other person has said, even though it can become distorted if an argument is heated. No-one is perfect, but we can all make changes, and we can all listen to another person's view, even when it really clashes with our own point of view.

I also think that "I will not inflame myself" can refer to anger against ourselves. There are plenty of situations in my life that I could be very angry with myself about, but that isn't very constructive. Self-blame is OK if it leads you to examine how you could have done things differently, and to try to handle things better in the future, but not if you are so angry with yourself that you become a worthless person in your own eyes.

Just my thoughts.

Senebty.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on February 11, 2011, 10:27:36 pm
How would this apply in a situation when the anger is linked to the larger feeling is of being overwhelemed and/or out of control of a situation..I wonder..? (As opposed to say, a reactionary response).
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on February 20, 2011, 08:16:50 pm
Purification #26

Hail Young One, coming forth from Wabui, I am not neglectful of Ma'at.


This purification speaks once again of the good god, Wesir. Wesir is frequently identified as the Young One, the Beautiful Youth, or He Who is Permanently Benign and Youthful. One of His epithets is Lord of Ma'at. As the King of the Dead, and Judge in the Hall of Ma'ati, Wesir presides over the proclamation of the dead soul's innocence when the precepts of ma'at are recited. Wesir, Lord of Ma'at, represents the good god, the truth and the justice, and it is in front of him that one justifies oneself by the weighing of ones heart.

This purification can be translated in other ways as well. One is "I do not shut my ears to the words of truth." But what does it meant to be "neglectful of ma'at?" To be neglectful, we either disregard something entirely or we just don't show it the attention we are required to give it. Hemet (AUS) advises us that in this purification and in others we need to remember that it is where we are deliberately misleading, not acting by mistake, or out of ignorance. It is when we do something that we know is wrong, or that is contradictory to the principles of ma'at, and decide to go ahead and do it, that is when the ethical principle kicks in. It is also when the punishment of Wesir kicks in, and that is not a particular fate I would wish my worst enemy.

As i contemplate on this purification, I look deep into the depths of my ka. Am I neglectful of ma'at. As a w'ab priest, my first though is to tending shrine. It is in that shrine that I offer ma'at in the name of my King to Wesir for the nation of Kemet. Do I take this vow seriously? Do I do it for my nation or is there selfish reason behind it?

As a member of society, am I neglectful of ma'at with those I associate with throughout the day? Do I follow the Golden Rule, and treat others the way I want to be treated? Do I only follow the principles of ma'at when they suit me, or do I follow them even if it hurt myself? Do I believe in ma'at, or am I just pretending when I want to?

Isfet is the opponent to ma'at. By being neglectful to ma'at, I allow isfet to come to power and destroy all I love. Isfet seeks to uncreate. It seeks to destroy. Isfet is poison, and spreads like a virus.

Living in ma'at isn't just a set of principles. It is a journey and way of life. When I say that I live in ma'at, it means that I seek to establish what is true and just. I strive each day to live according to these principles. Sometimes it is very hard. Isfet is sneaky, and easily warps are minds and views.

“Wesir, my gracious King, Lord of Ma’at. Help me to live faithful according to ma’at. May my life be and echo of Yours. May I learn from my mistakes and vow never to commit them again. Help me to learn and grow. Fill me with your love. Give me the skills and knowledge to follow ma’at all the days of my life, till I stand before You in the Hall of Two Truths, and am found True of Voice.”


Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on February 20, 2011, 11:29:46 pm
"I am not neglectful of Ma'at."/"I do not shut my ears to the words of truth."

Being someone who draws heavily from traditions that emphasize pantheism and mystical union with the godhead, this purification really perks up my ears. Mahayana Buddhism says that everyone has innate Buddha nature. Taoism says something similar about one's relationship with the Tao.

You never really get away from it, or can cut yourself off from it. But you can delude yourself about your relationship with Ultimate Reality. You can "shut your ears to the words of truth" even if you cannot silence the word of truth itself.

As someone learning about KO, I am discovering a strong trend for something similar concerning the nature of Ma'at. In that it is never destroyed or defeated. That one cannot cut oneself off from the balancing scales of Ma'at. But one can delude oneself and create an unhealthy situation/relationship for oneself within it.

There's a beautiful simplicity to this purification. One can be neglectful and walk about blindfolded if one wishes. But what does that really get one but bruises from running into things? The wall you are going to run into does not vanish when you close your eyes to it. It continues to stand there, while you create your own shock and pain from running into it blindly. It's up to you to open your eyes. And really, why not? Why not take a moment to try to be mindful and aware rather than neglectful?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Seta on February 25, 2011, 08:11:01 pm
Quote from: Wolf_Cub
"I do not shut my ears to the words of truth."


I am guilty of this one, at least as far as some things are concerned.  Such as the news; it is a very depressing world we live in, with all the bad going on.

Thinking just now as I typed the above, yeah, it is true - how much good in the world is happening?  How many people gave another a reason to feel better about something, for even just a moment?

But, when the news gets to be too much, I turn it off.  I just have to, or feel I do.  It's all the details about the world's ills. :(

I wish - for like five minutes out of the broadcast - they could speak about something positive.  Something, somewhere in the community - even if boring, even to me thinking about it right now! - has to be going positive!

Rare positive thought from me.  :D
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Imsetra_Imsety on March 04, 2011, 08:48:25 am
Quote from: Seta
I am guilty of this one, at least as far as some things are concerned.  Such as the news; it is a very depressing world we live in, with all the bad going on ... But, when the news gets to be too much, I turn it off.  I just have to, or feel I do.  It's all the details about the world's ills...


I too can relate to this, in a slightly different manor. I enjoy reading about daily events and watching the broadcasts because I do want to see and know what is going on in the world. Even through all the negativity out there, I never feel I need to shut the news off; because I feel I need to know what is going on in the world. I suppose more often than note I will find myself walking away from the television not because I find the news overly saddening, but because it becomes boring (as awful as that sounds). News stations play the same story over and over again for days on end. They trick us into believing we are hearing new developments by changing the journalist or anchor telling the story and changing up the way they present the story; but in the end its the same as the day before... and I suppose I too find myself becoming slightly 'detached' from the world while watching the news. Because, its very easy to not truly or fully grasp that what you are watching on your screen is actually happening in real time to real people. You know that its real: you know you are not watching a movie, but when you walk out your door to go to the store it is sunny and everything is calm. There are no fires, bombed houses or cars, people screaming in pain or in anger; no natural devastation...

So, while I live my days in and out by Ma'at, am I turning a blind I to it because the news does not always sink in as actuality in my life: because I am not living it? Many times the saddening news stories make me more proud to live in a place where these things do not happen; where these horrible happenings are illusions. But, is this being blind to Ma'at? ... I am not so sure, because television let alone radio existed in the times of our Akhu. However, it is without a doubt that while everything was sunny and happy in Karnak, something horrible was happening elsewhere: a volcano was devastating an island city in the Aegean, or the Romans were laying waist to a village of innocent people; or the Aztecs where sacrificing thousands of people and then eating their bodies. Where they neglectful of Ma'at because they did not know what was going on in the world? Or is ignorance a blessing of Ma'at. Yes, we live in a different world than the Akhu... but is it not the same? if I did not watch the news, while I had some thought in the back of my mind that something might be happening a world away from me that is not good; would I be being neglectful?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Qefathethert on March 04, 2011, 07:08:19 pm
This talk of news and such brought to mind something my boyfriend told me. I was fretting that I was being hypocritical to have followed the Egypt turmoil almost to the hour, but I feel so very disconnected to the Christchurch earthquake, even to the horrors in Libya. I asked if this was selfish, and horrible of me. He said to me "There is only so much you can grieve."
I think Netjer understands this. We can't give our hearts and minds to every single horrible happening in the world - we'd go mad. I certainly feel for those in Christchurch and Libya, and hope the very best for them, but I don't have the emotional investment in those places as I do New Orleans, (since I live here!) Egypt, and Haiti. I don't think that makes me a bad person, nor do I think it means I'm shutting myself off from truth. I don't deny those situations are horrible, but I can't spend every waking moment wailing and beating my breast.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Iaityinepu on March 04, 2011, 11:38:40 pm
I think if I were to focus so much on all the events happening in the world, I'd start to eat my heart out with the grief I'd feel.

Whilst I am aware of things that happen in the world and I include such events in my prayers, I don't actually follow the news (I've never got news on my television unless I know of a story that is going to be presented that I am particularly interested in).  I might glance over the headlines that come up on some of my internet pages before logging into sites I go to, and I might listen to the 'talk' via those who do listen to news.

I find the news to be very bias, however, and unless I have first hand knowlege I am not hearing all the words of truth.

Whenever I think of or deal with a situation, I try to remember that there are as many different points of views as there are people involved, before I become emotionally invested.  It is easy to be caught up in your friend's angst over a bitter divorce and begin to think horrible thoughts of their ex, because you're their friend, but that's not taking all aspects, and all truths into consideration.

The same goes for the news.  Whilst I supported the 'people' of Egypt, with the recent events, I am not in the situation, I am not in Egypt and I have never experienced this kind of event.  I don't know the reasons behind the leaders, nor the protesters.  I only know what was told via the news and other sources.  Now while I can make an educated decision on the information that is presented to me, unless I am there and unless I have first hand experience/knowledge, is it right of me to invest any emotional feelings?  I can be upset because I have *been* to Egypt and can see the events. I can sympathise because of lives lost (I know what it feels like to lose a loved one) but I don't think I have a right to truely take sides.  Each side believes they are right.  What truely makes one more right than wrong?  A majority belief?

I believe that when it is stated "I am not neglectful of Ma'at."/"I do not shut my ears to the words of truth." it refers to the thought that I remember that there are two sides of a story.  That I don't make decisions light-heartedly.  That I listen to both sides of the story.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Seperenamunra on March 06, 2011, 03:58:18 pm
I would just like to comment on the news conversation. I think that the world only seems to be in more turmoil than anyother time because of the fact things can be known around the world sooner than before. Not only that, but the reporters don't report positive things on the news, because positive does not sell. Only war, death and drama do. Just my thoughts though.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Qefathethert on March 06, 2011, 06:57:30 pm
Quote from: Iaityinepu
I think if I were to focus so much on all the events happening in the world, I'd start to eat my heart out with the grief I'd feel.


I guess this right here was what I was trying to say.
Also, I see your point about balance. That's definitely a part of Ma'at.

And, Kahotep, I would love to see more positive news. I wish for it every day.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Brooklynfan on April 08, 2011, 11:23:22 pm
I will agree completely with Kahotepamun.

I was having a very similar discussion with a co worker the other day about the news, and in particular the large number of depressing (and distressing) things that we hear over and over every day.  This particular person is convinced that we are nearing the end times because of all of the turmoil and violence that is about.

But the thing is, there has always been turmoil and violence throughout history.  Weather you believe that it is human nature to be in conflict or there is some other reason, it still has always been there.  The difference is that before, people who werent there didnt get to see it.  Sure, they heard it happened, either through word of mouth, or newspapers, etc, but they werent actually there.  With modern news, you can be 'there'  That changes a lot of things, including, naturally, our perceptions of events, which in turn are manipulated by those holding the cameras, and in the editing room.

I have often wondered how differently things would have been if there had been news crews present at Thermopylai, or The Great Chicago Fire, or Spotsylvania Courthouse or any one of a thousand other remarkable moments in history.  

And whats sad is that I really dont know if their presence would be a blessing or a curse.  I'm reminded of a quote by General Sherman-
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are.
If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."  

Now im not a huge fan of the man, but I think he had a point.

In the end, I think it is a twofold thing.  I think that we must be certain not to shut our ears to the words of truth, but we must also have the wisdom to know the truth from falsehood (which can be harder than it looks) and the will to act when we can to right the wrongs we see, and if there arent any wrongs to help keep Ma'at by following our own moral compasses and attempt to do what it right, even if it is not necessarily what we want to do.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Helmsman_of_Yinepu on April 09, 2011, 09:12:12 am
IMO there is a huge gap between what actually happens and "visual news". I think it's easier to detect bias in the written word. The camera focuses on the angry young man with a scar instead of the concerned mother clutching her child, and our whole perception is skewed in a subtle way. We don't see the images they don't choose to show. Obsessively watching the news gives us the illusion that we know what's going on.

A few years ago, in the coverage of an airliner going down in the ocean the image, shown for hours on a news channel, was of water. Was that water anywhere near where the plane crashed? I very much doubt it. Were people expecting wreckage or bodies bobbing to the surface? Heck, it could have been the duck pond behind the studio.

The corollary is that if they can't come up with a good image, it will not be shown, and it never happened. A thousand people die because they don't have access to medical care, 20 people die because a fairground ride falls apart. Which makes the news?

Watching the news doesn't equate with "opening your eyes to the truth" in my book.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Seperenamunra on April 10, 2011, 04:16:03 pm
I agree with those last two posts. The editing room is where the whole "story" comes together. Also I agree that the news gives us the perception that we know what's going on, when in fact, we have no idea.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on April 30, 2011, 07:49:01 pm
Purification #27

Hail Shrouded One, coming forth from the clouds, I do not cause suffering.


This purification calls out to Amun, king of the gods. Amun is the hidden god, the one who is in the wind and as intangible as sunlight. I have also heard of Him referred to as the hidden light within. He was at the moment of Zep Tepi, and has the special designation of being the god to have created himself. Amun is similar to a mirage; once you think you have an understanding of Him, you reach out your hand and the image dissipates. As intangible as He may seem, there are many prayers that call out to Him as a assistant of the helpless. He judges justly and is not influenced by bribe, what He has not seen, or the status of others. His words are soft and speak to the heart (ib) of all shemsu.

I do not cause suffering. Some synonyms for suffering are agony, torment, torture, pain, and distress. I feel most of us can say that we do not cause the needless suffering of any person or animal. I believe that we are all good people brought together by our love of Netjer. I do not think we cause agony or torment. I am sure there have been times where I may have added to the suffering of people, whether stranger or friend. What is important is that we realize what we have done and make amends, even if that amends is a simple sorry from the bottom of the heart.

I work with the physically and mentally ill. I see suffering on a daily basis. Some get better and some do not. Seeing people suffer and not being able to help is frustrating and works on your heart. Although I am realistic in knowing that I can't take away all of their suffering, I still wish I could. I care about their well being and do my best. If I could just help one person, even if it is bringing a smile to their face and letting them know someone does care, then I have done what is right and help alleviate some of the suffering isfet brings.

"Amun, Hidden Breeze that Brings Breath to my Ib, hear my prayer. May your light shine from my heart to all those who suffer. Destroy the power of isfet in all our lives and let ma'at prevail always. Help me never to be an agent of the Uncreated. Let no suffering ever come from my actions, my voice, my mind, or my inaction. Enlighten my heart Amun, and create in me that spirit of compassion which destroys all suffering."
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wolf_Cub on April 30, 2011, 11:55:31 pm
This is an intriguing purification. Especially for me, as I draw heavily from Buddhist, Taoist, and pantheistic philosophies. The case of suffering is a key one for me. The association with of not creating suffering with a Name who is Hidden also intrigues me. Here are my thoughts.

I must admit straight out of the gates that I do not believe that a life completely without suffering is possible, or even desirable, in the conventional sense. Minimizing physical and/or emotional suffering certainly is possible and desirable to an extent. But the very circle of life itself is a process that feeds upon itself. I grew up in a family of deer hunters. I would come home from school sometimes in Autumn as a small child to find the skinned carcass of a deer hanging from the rafters in our garage. It left me with a lasting visceral image of the ever-devouring nature of life and death. And few illusions about pain not being involved the process.

That being said, causing unnecessary or unwarranted pain is another matter. Being raised as by hunters, I was taught that it is right to make the death as quick and painless as possible. And to eat (and/or otherwise make use of) the animal. One ought not to kill merely for sport. As a martial artist, I was trained in how to fight. To this day, I continue to train in arts that are, at least outwardly, concerned with how to quickly and efficiently deliver maximum pain and damage to the human body. But I was taught to avoid it, until it is necessary. I like to think that true, honorable martial arts are not about creating pain and violence. But rather, learning how to dive headfirst into that ocean of physical pain, to grapple pain, to change the direction of the energy of violence, until it is transformed into something else that is at least a little better.

It can be difficult to see that better "something" in the midst of great suffering. It takes an open eye and a clear heart to see the hidden potential, unclouded but judgements. Like the sculptor who sees the statue already waiting in the stone block. It's already there, here and now. But not yet. It makes me think how very appropriate invoking the Hidden One may be here.

Ultimately, human beings are not responsible for creating the condition of suffering. But we are responsible for what we do with it. That is a great challenge, I think. What can we do with this? A drum can be used to make beautiful music. Or it can make a cacophony to wake the neighbors at 3:30 AM. What am I doing with my pain? What am I doing with the pain of others?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shezep_shuty on May 02, 2011, 10:19:22 am
I am always reminded of the immortal words of the Dread Pirate Westley, "Life is pain Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something." It's virtually impossible to walk or breathe or eat without causing some suffering somewhere, but was can try to limit it where we can. We can have compassion for those around us who are not quite on their game because they're having a bad day too.

Most of my good friends are crazy in one way or another. We joke about it, but I am talking in a clinical sense. Depression, bipolar, anxiety disorders, gender dysphoria, borderline, PTSD, DID, SAD, asperger's, ADHD, self mutilation, a couple of nerve disorders thrown in for good measure, and those are just the ones I've been told. They don't always get along with each other. I remind them that we're all in the same boat and they need to cut each other some slack. They're all good people though. They wouldn't be my friends otherwise.

They all know what it's like to be on the receiving end of suffering. Most of the time all we can do is offer virtual hugs, but even that can help.

I also practice, and teach, martial arts. (Though most people forget that tai chi chuan actually is a martial art. It was once taught to the Chinese imperial guard.) My sifu has a saying, "And then you break the elbow with all the lovingkindness in your Taoist heart." We all laugh when he says that, but it's true. Force may sometimes be necessary, but at least do it with compassion.

In my experience, martial arts relive suffering more often than inflicting it. It sounds strange, but it instills people with confidence that they can take care of themselves. They become less fearful and more aware of themselves and their surroundings. Simply changing the way you walk can be enough to avoid a fight. The health benefits go a long way toward relieving physical suffering as well.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on June 17, 2011, 08:00:31 am
Purification #28

Hail Bringer-of-His-Offerings, coming forth from Sau, I am not spiteful.


In Hemet's booklet, The 42 Purifications, she states that this purification is dedicated and refers to the god Heka, the Son of Nit. And since it discusses spitefulness and Heka, we are referring to spitefulness in speech.

In today's computerized world of blogs, texts, forums, chat rooms, and Facebook this purification seems readily important. Spitefulness is defined as full of spite or malice; showing spite; malicious; or being malevolent. Spite itself means a malicious, usually petty, desire to harm, annoy, frustrate, or humiliate another person. If you have ever been a teenager or seen children interact with each other, then you should be familiar with spite. Adults do it everyday. I see it at work constantly between colleagues, among the GBLT community here at home, and unfortunately frequently here on the boards as well.

This purification is directed at peri-'a, to "go out against the arm," to be on the defensive against others. We are frequently reminded in this country that we have a freedom of speech. That we have a right (and some feel duty) to say what we desire. We have to make our opinion (among millions) known, regardless of who it hurts. If someone does something, then they need to know that you disapprove even if you only know them through a friend of a friend.

Being spiteful is actively going out and using your words like your fists. You are ready to do battle and cause some damage. But is this the kind of person YOU want to be? While some may (and that is fine for them), for myself I do not. I don't want to be the person who feels superior in his speech because I hurt another. I do not want to be the person who only feels better when I bring someone down a notch. I want to be better than that, and I know my Father expects it out of me.

Don't we as follows of non-mainstream religions have enough people against us? We have enough hurdles to jump through in regards to family members who don't understanding, spouses who ridicule us, friends that laugh at us, preachers that damn us, and acquaintances that whisper behind our backs, without doing the same to each other. We are family in our beliefs. Whether we are Kemetic Orthodox, Kemetic Reconstructionalists, Independents, Tameran Wiccans, Pagans, or Isis, Anubis, or Bast worshipers.

"Ma'at, Lady of Purity. May my lips remain pure. May my tongue remain pure. May my mouth remain pure. May my voice remain pure. Allow my words to create, never destroy. For my voice is my heka, my words are my heka, my thoughts are my heka, and my intent is my heka."
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Mezaenaset on June 17, 2011, 10:40:25 am
Thank you, Raheri!  I really needed to hear this today.   :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shefytbast on June 19, 2011, 10:14:36 am
Back when I was involved in fandom, I named my LiveJournal "velvetpaws" to remind myself to keep my claws in. ^_^  I think spiteful speech is harmful even if it's not a face-to-face attack on someone but instead is cutting them down behind their backs. It makes us smaller; it makes our hearts shrunken and hard.

May our speech be free of poison; may our speech be filled with ma'at.

Shefyt

 
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Deswy on June 19, 2011, 01:12:44 pm
Raheriwesir, Henu....all that you've said is true.  When I was married to my third and final husband (don't laugh..it takes time for some of us to realize we were meant to be loners)..his sister, who considered herself High Priestess of a coven in NYC, and also ran two "occult" stores on St. Marks Place...put sll her spite and malice into some herbal "mojo" blend and threw it in front of the doorways of all her competition in the City.  She died of cancer several years later...but the cough she had that precipitated it...I told her it was not a "good" cough and she should get checked by a doctor.  Her bad heka I believe turned on her.  

"Ma'at, Lady of Purity. May my lips remain pure. May my tongue remain pure. May my mouth remain pure. May my voice remain pure. Allow my words to create, never destroy. For my voice is my heka, my words are my heka, my thoughts are my heka, and my intent is my heka."

Word is Bond.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shefytbast on June 20, 2011, 05:23:33 pm

Not Kemetic, but I thought that this blog post (http://inthemistsofavalon.blogspot.com/2011/06/cause-and-effect.html) was a lovely expression of the cause-and-effect relationship that we see in ma'at, and of the consequences of anger and spite.

Shefyt

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on June 21, 2011, 11:47:53 am
Thank you for sharing that Shefyt!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Niheri on July 16, 2011, 09:40:35 am
Em hotep.

This purification is so relevant for me at the moment. I know that there are people spreading rumours about myself and my family that have absolutely no basis whatsoever in fact. The person concerned is feeling very bitter towards a member of my extended family and is just hitting out at anyone and everyone who has any connection at all. I have, literally, had to bite my tongue in order not to rise to the bait.

Words have power. My word is heka. I use my words in helpful, constructive ways, as far as I possibly can.

Thankyou for this very timely reminder.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Khenneferitw on July 19, 2011, 11:38:14 am
Oh goodness, it's as if whenever one checks this thread, it's because there is something they need to read, isn't there?

I have been quite spiteful lately - with my boyfriend, with some people in a group I'm in, with the Universe in general!

But I have held back the words, veiled my anger ever so thinly to those who have invoked it - but you just reminded me, our intent is heka too.

Dua Ma'at, Dua Heka, and thank you Raheri! May I use my voice for pure heka, with you all to remind me to follow this Purification. :]
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Blissi on July 20, 2011, 11:28:29 am
I try to watch what I am saying or doing, but it can go out the window big style when I'm in the mood to be a you know what. I cleanse myself of bad thoughts and feelings occasionally.. using natron, and do a banishing which is more about unseen energies. I always speak the truth to my god/goddesses .. its not like they are going to buy any lies anyway  :whistle:
 
I try not to destroy or give bad heka .. I just explain a problem to my dietys, and let them make a decision of how to deal with it .. and then it is their decision not of my own spite/ anger . Usually I have a few ideas of how to deal with a problem, and they give me a hint of which to do.
Seems to work for me .. I've never got the impression of over stepping boundaries when performing magic .
I also try and turn situations / problems into something positive.. but that rarely works . Some people are not ready for help or do not want it.
I would feel terrible if I'd done some thing unjust.

I have seen the tables turned for 2 people who crossed me in a big way ( and others FOR  years ) and I have no guilt what so ever about it. People get what they deserve when I'm around.  :/
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shezep_shuty on July 20, 2011, 04:18:40 pm
I got warned about just the opposite of this one last night. In my dream, a friend who had helped me was being ridiculed in public, and I said nothing. Today I feel bad about it. The thing I should have said might not have been nice, but in that instance, silence was worse.

In all things there needs to be a balance.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 26, 2011, 01:42:27 pm
Purification #29

“Hail Foreteller of Speech, coming forth from Wensy, I do not cause tumult.”


Confusion and disorder. How appropriate that this purification falls during this time of the year. As the year ends, and we enter the days outside the year, confusion and disorder can present itself.  

The god overlooking this purification is Set, the Creator of Terror. As one of the most famous stirrers of strife, we should look at Him and examine why it is there in the first place. Confusion leads to understanding. Disorder and chaos leads to stability. Change is an awesomely terrifying force; one in which no one really wants to deal with, but one we have to anyway. Set’s strife is always for the better.

It is important to remember that disorder will end. Ma’at will bring everything back to Herself. Confusion ends, once we examine why were are confused in the first place.

I know many people are in this state right now. I myself am among them. Change is painful. However we need to look at the opportunity this presents. What a powerful form of heka we have in our midst. What a wonderful way to end the Year of Zep Tepi and begin anew. Everyday can be a new beginning. Even every moment. Don’t let Zep Tepi pass you by in confusion

“Set, Lord of the Desert. Protect me from harm, both physical and mental. Help me not to be frightened of your power, but instead to rely on the knowledge that you would not harm me. You see what I cannot, and I trust in you.”
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Qefathethert on July 27, 2011, 02:27:10 am
How very appropriate - I have felt Set hanging around quite a bit. I do my best to trust that He knows exactly what He's doing. Which I'm sure He does.

May I keep my center in this storm, and not add to the confusion and chaos around me.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sarytsenuwi on July 27, 2011, 09:03:48 am
Quote
Set, Lord of the Desert. Protect me from harm, both physical and mental. Help me not to be frightened of your power, but instead to rely on the knowledge that you would not harm me. You see what I cannot, and I trust in you.


This could not have been more perfectly timed. Set currently guides me through the end of a four year relationship, the death of a childhood friend, the illnesses of multiple family members, and next month's move to another state for the beginning of my graduate studies and my first time living alone. I can hardly remember a more tumultuous period in my life. Yet I find comfort in the knowledge that He who guides knows that I will learn from what has happened and believes that I can stride forward from the storm stronger for the experience.

In the meantime I meditate on the actual purification, particularly "I do not cause tumult." While I am new enough to the faith as to not be sure who is stating this, I found a powerful reminder in this short phrase. Though chaos and confusion goes on around me, it is Set's place to create and form it, not mine. If I am to get through the uncertainty, emerge from the storm whole, I must not lash out at those around me, but remain calm as the eye of the maelstrom. It is tempting to find release through uncontrolled anger when others' inability to understand my grief pushes my frustration to the breaking point. But to allow myself to do such would, as I understand it, go against ma'at. To find my way out of the storm more swiftly, through binet, is to do a terrible disservice to myself, my loved ones, and He who stands with me, pushing me forward in ma'at and strength. It is not worth the end of the tribulations to live with that guilty weight.

Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts, and for leading us through these purifications.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Taysatwesir on July 27, 2011, 09:29:58 am
Quote from: Raheri
"Set, Lord of the Desert. Protect me from harm, both physical and mental. Help me not to be frightened of your power, but instead to rely on the knowledge that you would not harm me. You see what I cannot, and I trust in you."


Thank you Raheri I will remember these words the next time there is change. :) I'm curious did you write this yourself or is it from a ancient text?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 28, 2011, 10:13:26 am
Hotep Taysat!

All the prayers I have in my posts are my own. :o)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shukheperas_ankhi on July 31, 2011, 12:43:18 am
I've been reading through this thread slowly but surely, and taking notes on questions that I have - I've only made it through the first two pages, but those posts are nearly 5 years old.  Is it alright with Raheri in particular, and anyone else if I post my thoughts and questions from posts that are so old?  I can make sure that my posts include quotes and such if that will help.  :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 31, 2011, 12:24:56 pm
That is fine with me. I would love for people to contribute and start discussions.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shukheperas_ankhi on August 01, 2011, 02:02:16 am
Alright, let's see if I can organize this well enough.  :P  It's a bit late, and sometimes my mind gets muddled.

The first Purification:
Hail Strider, coming from Iunu (Heliopolis), I am not doing (making) isfet.

Shemi replied explaining what isfet is - thankfully because I have not taken classes and I did not know what was meant by this Purification at first glance.

Quote from: Senushemi
To paraphrase Hemet, isfet is the action of undoing creation itself. We add to this by doing bits and pieces that can further the uncreation of creation;


So.. does this apply to all of mankind?  Is every person who does not adhere to ma'at contributing to the isfet in the world?  Or does this only apply to those who know and understand these concepts, aka does it apply only to the people who know better than to create isfet?

Quote from: Raheri
Making isfet is something we aren’t going to do by accident. That is gereg, but not isfet.


I'm not sure I'm understanding gereg properly - from what Shemi said, I thought that gereg was lying.  So, how does one gereg on accident?  I don't really understand the idea of lying on accident.  Am I misunderstanding what you're saying here, or am I just not understanding gereg?

Quote from: TheDisreputableDog
Have you seen or read The Neverending Story? If so, the Nothing is an example of isfet.


I thought this was a very simple example of isfet, but it led me to wondering more things - in Neverending Story, the Nothing is destroying the world, making it disappear.  It's very literal.  If we create too much isfet, do we destroy the world as well?

In addition to that idea, I'm also wondering if it balances out.  Say that someone creates isfet today, but I am doing ma'at.  Does the ma'at of others help to quell or remove the isfet that is created by others?  

I figure this is enough to start with.  :P  I have so many other thoughts racing in my head, but some of them may be answered with your responses, so I won't overwhelm anyone yet. Hopefully.  >.>
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Niheri on August 06, 2011, 04:00:17 am
Em hotep, LadyTanha.

I'm a very new Shemsu, so please don't think that I am speaking for anyone else here - this is just me thinking :).

With regard to "gereg" - To me, it seems that gereg is the sort of situation when you say or do something you later regret, but you weren't intending to do harm. For instance, you say something in the heat of the moment, which you didn't really mean, but then the other person is dreadfully upset or offended. You were not purposefully setting out to do harm...but, you did. If, on the other hand, you deliberately set out to be spiteful, or nasty, or stir up trouble between people on purpose, I would say that that was isfet.

I really hope that someone more experienced comes along! I'm glad you asked about that - I am very late to following this thread, too :).

I, too have many questions...

Senebty.  
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Helmsman_of_Yinepu on August 06, 2011, 08:11:10 am
Here's my two cents on it.

Quote from: LadyTanha
So.. does this apply to all of mankind?  Is every person who does not adhere to ma'at contributing to the isfet in the world?  Or does this only apply to those who know and understand these concepts, aka does it apply only to the people who know better than to create isfet?


I think anyone in the world who knowingly does something "anti-Ma'at" contributes to isfet. It doesn't matter if they understand the concept or not.

As I understand it, it's constant work to keep the universe "above water". Literally, from sinking back into the primeval Nun.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Blissi on August 06, 2011, 01:04:38 pm
Quote
In my dream, a friend who had helped me was being ridiculed in public, and I said nothing. Today I feel bad about it.



I hate that heart sink feeling.. Because some times actions are louder than words.. or rather the lack of it.
Having the courage to speak during a challenging time is tough going.


I have really only had two personal experiences with Set, and I trust that any thing that flys my way is for a reason.

Last year was quite enormously challenging and horrific for me, but I am alot stronger as a result with courage and confidence not just for myself but for helping others too , were other people may back away from.

It is an interesting purification .. I am going to have a good think about it.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: TabauAmunet on March 12, 2012, 06:04:56 am
Yay this thread is back! Nekhtet! Lots of good work by Raheri and others in here!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Itenumuti on March 12, 2012, 10:46:13 am
Nekhtet! Now I have lots of tasty reading material. :D
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Niheri on March 12, 2012, 02:05:29 pm
Thank you! :).
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Linda on March 13, 2012, 06:03:57 am
Thank you Raheri! I have so much to learn and this is a wonderful place for me to start.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on March 21, 2012, 09:52:36 pm
Believe it or not I had forgotten completely about this thread. Out of sight out of mind. Regardless, let's pick up right where we dropped off.

Purification #30

Hail Lord of Faces, coming forth from Nedjfet, I am not impatient.

We all know how it is. We live in a fast-food society where we have instant gratification. We have information at our fingertips, twenty-four hours a day, every day. We expect our food fast, our items delivered as soon as we order them, always be the first person in line, and never be told “no.” And we expect this every time and become angry when it doesn’t happen. Hemet (AUS) writes that in this purification a direct translation of the text is “to hurry my heart.” It is hard to look into our heart and tell god that we are not impatient – that we don’t hurry our heart.

There are times in our lives that we want something so much that we can taste it. It is so tangible dangling in front of us that when we reach for it we just cannot quite make it. But we lose something in that anticipation. When we only focus on the ends, we miss the journey. That journey is so important. How we got there is tells a story about who we are and what we have done.

I would love for my degree to be finished right now, but if it magically happened I would have missed an understanding. I would have missed what it was all about. I would have missed the process.

Are you looking so single-minded on something that you have disregarded your peripheral vision? Are you missing something wondrous and beautiful? Stop! Take a moment to think why you want to be there. What is Netjer trying to tell you during the journey?

“Heru, Lord of Faces. Teach me patience. Take my fears and anxieties about what is to come, and help me to see what is now. Today is zep-tepi, tomorrow is its own. Today I will slow down, and listen to my heart. May it speak to me, and open me to this day and the blessings in it.”
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Padjaiemweru on March 22, 2012, 12:00:01 pm
good lesson to think about, thank you.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Linda on March 22, 2012, 01:14:45 pm
This lesson has given me a lot to think about. I can be very impatient, and the lesson has made me stop and think, and to realise what I'm missing in my hurry. Thank you Raheri!  :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Wenidjehuty on March 22, 2012, 02:11:32 pm
Thank you for that, Raheri! Impatience is a negative quality I'm having to grapple with in my own life right now. Impatience gives rise to negative thoughts, to imagining one's own time and wants to outweigh those of others...

On this birthday of Heru-Sa-Aset - indeed, Heru teach me patience!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on April 03, 2012, 01:30:53 pm
Quote from: Raheri


....if it magically happened I would have missed an understanding. I would have missed what it was all about. I would have missed the process.

Are you looking so single-minded on something that you have disregarded your peripheral vision? Are you missing something wondrous and beautiful? Stop! Take a moment to think why you want to be there. What is Netjer trying to tell you during the journey?

“Heru, Lord of Faces. Teach me patience. Take my fears and anxieties about what is to come, and help me to see what is now. Today is zep-tepi, tomorrow is its own. Today I will slow down, and listen to my heart. May it speak to me, and open me to this day and the blessings in it.”
 


This is a very challenging one for me, very relevant.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: izabellsa on April 04, 2012, 02:29:40 pm
This is a wonderful topic and each lesson teachs me a plethora of things to do in my own life.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Niheri on April 23, 2012, 12:10:45 pm
"Bump" :).
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Kaiserin on May 02, 2012, 09:14:21 pm
Thank you for posting this, Raheri. :)

I have to say that I try my best not to be impatient if at all possible. I do find that occasionally I'm in a hurry and need something to be done, and of course forget to slow down entirely. But for the most part, I think I struggle least in this area (thankfully!)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Vaalea on May 12, 2012, 08:50:00 pm
This prayer for patience and guidance toward it is actually very mattering to me, useful. I'm constantly in a rush, not slowing down (ties in with stress levels I'm only slowly working past), so this is very relevant.

Thank you for posting it, Raheri. I've noted it down and will try to keep in mind.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tahesatmuti on May 12, 2012, 10:08:40 pm
I can be impatient at times too. Not as bad as I used to be. Thanks for that beautiful prayer Raheri.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: izabellsa on May 24, 2012, 05:52:24 pm
I am so thankful that you posted this, it helps me remember what is important:)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: JadeVal16 on June 08, 2012, 06:45:19 am
I've been practicing patience recently.  After returning to the House I have decided that Shemsuhood is something I want to persue in, but I want to take it slowly.  I want to make sure it is definately something I want.

When I was buying bits for my shrine I got a bit impatient when it came to finding baking soda and incense because I wanted it 'NOW'!  But now that it's all together and I have time to get back into the swing of things I can relax.

I'm always being told by Netjer to slow down, especially at work.  I also ensure that my tasks at work and home are completed now and then, often making me very tired.  So I will definately practice this Purification :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: GryphonMagi on October 30, 2012, 01:06:43 am
I have finally made it through this post and have found it quite enjoyable. It has given me tons to think about. Raheri, are you still going to be continuing on with it?

Senebty,

Gryphie
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on November 09, 2012, 04:54:32 pm
Purification #31
Hail Maker-of-Plans, coming forth from Utent, I am not an eavesdropper.

Snoop. Gossip. Spy.

These are all words that come to mind when I think about eavesdropping. An eavesdropper is a person who listens to conversations, but who isn’t part of that conversation. They listen to get information, which usually tends to be used maliciously. In the temples, secrets were important. Today they still are.

When we eavesdrop or listen to others conversations secretly, we are being deceitful. Basically an eavesdropper is someone who has a lack of trust. Trust is hard to have sometimes in people, communities, and governments. Frequently we say that trust has to be earned. But sometime we just have to take a leap, like with faith, and put our trust in someone or something and not entirely know why. Is it gods, man, money, things, or animals we put our trust in?

The eavesdropper is out of balance with ma’at. They are pushing their own agenda and not flowing with ma’at. They are creating their own heka, which is not necessarily beneficial.
 
“Heka, word of life, may I never place the seeds of destruction in the ears of my brothers and sisters. May I only create and bring ma’at. May my words, actions, and intent always help, never harm, and become.”
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Pawabitui on December 12, 2013, 02:41:38 pm
Em Hotep

It's funny to stumble upon this topic since I just started reading "The Egyptian Book of the Dead" by Wallis Budge. I'll read through the book and this thread simultaniously, this way I'll enjoy the lecture and see thoughts of others about it at the same time. ^^

Eavesdropping. I can see the point because I've been harmed greatly thanks to someone who had been eavesdropping on me, caught only half a sentence and judged me on that. Afterwards that person never paid attention to the truth of my words and what I had actually said.

On the other hand I do it myself. I know I'm out of balance when I do it, that's no secret to me. Still, if I do it, I do it because I am afraid of some sort of ambush, people who act friendly infront of me might actually hold a grudge against me or something. That is my reason why I do eavesdrop sometimes.

Nonetheless I know it is no good and there are better ways to get rid of my fear than by simply following what ever it forces on me. For my personal situation I know what to do, though I can't do it instantly. I'll learn and someday soon overcome my fear without harming my balance. ^^

Senebty
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on February 02, 2014, 01:01:34 pm
Purification #32
Hail Lord-of-Two-Horns, coming forth from Saunty, I do not talk too much.

We have all seen  them. Those people who love the sound of their own voice. They monopolate time, energy, and conversations of everyone around them. When the conversation ceases, you question yourself they they really said anything at all.

The Ancient Kemetics had much respect for the Silent Man. Throughout the Wisdom literature we can see verses supporting the person who actively listens and learns, over those persons who consistently use empty words. This does not mean suffering in silence. What we need to focus on is using our words appropriately and honestly. So when we do speak, others will listen, knowing what we have to say is truthful, important, and filled with the weighing of the conscious.

"Wepwawet, my voice is the path of creation and destruction. Whatever I issue from it can be the heka of ma'at or isfet. May I ever speak with love, compassion, empathy, support, and wisdom. May my words not harm any of those I love, but only bring us together and not separate."
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shezatwepwawet on February 18, 2014, 10:42:43 am
Quote from: Raheri

"Wepwawet, my voice is the path of creation and destruction. Whatever I issue from it can be the heka of ma'at or isfet. May I ever speak with love, compassion, empathy, support, and wisdom. May my words not harm any of those I love, but only bring us together and not separate."


I LOVE this heka!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on February 20, 2014, 09:07:06 am
Feel free to use it anytime!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Gleb on March 06, 2014, 04:53:42 am
I follow the 42 purifications / commandments, because of:
1) "Treat others as you want to be treated"
2) I must have specific rules to follow, so I won't be seduced by the evil of our world.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senuwierneheh on March 22, 2014, 02:27:30 pm
Quote from: Shezatwepwawet
Quote from: Raheri

"Wepwawet, my voice is the path of creation and destruction. Whatever I issue from it can be the heka of ma'at or isfet. May I ever speak with love, compassion, empathy, support, and wisdom. May my words not harm any of those I love, but only bring us together and not separate."


I LOVE this heka!


I love it too.

A couple of things I saw on the internet relates to this:

"Words cast spells. That's why it's called SPELLING.  Words are energy.  Use them wisely." -"@desireaspireinspire"

"Humankind has not woven the web of life.  We are but one thread within it.  Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.  All things are bound together.  All things connect."  - Chief Seattle

Chief Seattle's words to me really get at the gist of ma'at.

I've enjoyed reading this thread, by the way!

Meresankh
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Gleb on March 29, 2014, 03:07:39 am
When I think about it, there is an option of letting one to know his / her place without offending him, when it comes to be offended by this person.

Sometimes I just want to tell the offender everything I think about him / her. But I hold myself back in order to follow the 42 purifications. It's not easy.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: terrapin46 on March 29, 2014, 08:22:59 am
Tangential tech issue, I have this topic added to my "Watched Topics" so it emails me when posts are added, and its been doing that just fine, but then when I come on to the site, it doesn't show the new posts in the "Active Topics"/"Active Posts" listings.  From there it looks like nothing new has been posted, they don't show up in the recent activity. It's like they're in a vacuum.

It's very strange.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: GryphonMagi on January 02, 2015, 03:54:43 am
Hotep!

Raheri, I think it is time to continue with this. I again have been re-reading through.. and caught the last one posted two years ago about impatience. Now I understand that there are times when things get forgotten, or put aside for more important things, but I would love it if you started it back up again. (Netjer forgive me for my impatience  :P) Also, I was wondering, when all the Purifications are eventually posted, would you be able to create a sticky thread with just your posts on them? Your thoughts and prayers are wonderful, and are great for meditations, within and outside of Senut.

Senebty,

Gryph
Remetj
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Mutireshwi on October 09, 2015, 10:29:42 pm
I'll second that, Gryph! This thread has been absolutely wonderful, and I would love to see it continue.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 13, 2016, 11:21:39 am
Are we talking about the "42 Principles Of Ma'at ?

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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 13, 2016, 11:23:54 am
I have "The Egyptian Book Of The Dead" by E.A. Wallis Budge, Published by Penguin Classics


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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tanebet on November 13, 2016, 11:59:23 am
Em Hotep Johnny

there are many different terms.
The most common one would be "42 negative confessions".
Here we call them the 42 purifications.

Budge is widely and cheaply available but his translations are kinda outdated.
One of the best translations was made by Faulkner

Senebty
Tanebet
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 13, 2016, 12:03:53 pm
OK. Thank you for the information. I'm learning. Thank you all for accepting me as a Kemetic Teachings Beginner [Zep-Tepi]

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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 13, 2016, 12:06:32 pm
Is Muata Ashby "The Book Of The Dead" Coming Forth By Day, a reliable source ? I noticed on Amazon Kindle App, He is a Practicer and a Netjer Teacher as well..

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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tanebet on November 13, 2016, 12:22:47 pm
I haven't read that version so I can't really comment on it, but according to one review on Amazon it is not a translation of the Book of the Dead and according to one website it mixes Yoga with Kemetic thinking.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 13, 2016, 12:24:45 pm
I haven't read that version so I can't really comment on it, but according to one review on Amazon it is not a translation of the Book of the Dead and according to one website it mixes Yoga with Kemetic thinking.
OK. He does do yoga as well. I'll stick with Raymond Faulkner.... Thanks once again

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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Shezatwepwawet on November 13, 2016, 02:58:28 pm
Em hotep Johnny,

Budge is no longer considered an accurate source for translations, as his work was heavily influenced by Victorian morals and a wealth of information has come through since his time.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 13, 2016, 03:07:21 pm
Thank you. I'm new to this. Nevertheless, I was told Raymond Faulkner was a "accurate source."

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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Temseniaset on November 13, 2016, 07:44:16 pm
Hotep

 Faulkner imo is the best translation.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 13, 2016, 07:49:00 pm
Thanks

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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Johnny Charlton on November 17, 2016, 10:29:23 pm
I find myself meditating on the 42 Principles of Ma'at a lot.......

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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Rayashi on November 19, 2016, 05:23:45 am
During an Indy, IN gathering once, we made necklaces where the beads represented the 42 purifications and in the middle was a silver feather.  It is very helpful for contemplating their importance.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Saymari on November 19, 2016, 09:06:42 pm
During an Indy, IN gathering once, we made necklaces where the beads represented the 42 purifications and in the middle was a silver feather.  It is very helpful for contemplating their importance.
That sounds like a neat idea. Would it be appropriate to ask how they were made?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: nandor on February 08, 2018, 05:33:33 pm
I think geographical names could be read metaphorically also.
"coming from Iunu (Heliopolis)" means being the son of the Sun "I am not doing (making) isfet."
I`m not walk in darkness.
And so on. Every place name should be analyzed this way.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sedjfaiemitui on February 09, 2018, 04:52:37 am
I think geographical names could be read metaphorically also.
"coming from Iunu (Heliopolis)" means being the son of the Sun "I am not doing (making) isfet."
I`m not walk in darkness.
And so on. Every place name should be analyzed this way.

Em hotep nefer, Nandor. :)

An important thing not to do is to confuse Greek toponyms with Egyptian ones. One should be careful not to extrapolate meanings from Greek or Latin and apply them anachronistically to Ancient Egyptian material written and practiced long before the Ptolemaic and Roman Occupational Periods.

The name "Iwnw" means "Pillars," perhaps in reference to the Pillars of the Sky referenced in Egyptian cosmic geography, or to the pillars existing at the central temple. There are no explicit solar meanings attached to this particular native name of this city, as there is with the Greek name Heliopolis, plainly meaning "Sun-City" -- so named by the Greeks on account of the prominent cults of Re and Atum and Their bovine Wehem (Herald), Menwer (Mnevis).

Similarly, no less than two Egyptian cities were renamed after the Classical Hero and God Herakles: Herakleopolis Magna, and Herakleopolis Parva -- "Herakles-City Large" and "Herakles-City Small," respectively. The native Egyptian names of these cities mean completely different things than what Greeks and then Romans assigned to them. The largest of these, Hwt-nn-nsw or Hnn-nsw -- Hellenic Herakleopolis Magna -- translates roughly to "House of the Royal Child," for example. It could hardly have anything to do with Herakles when that Egyptian city and its cults were founded thousands of years before Herakles' cult first emerged in Greece. :P

Another important city, Hermopolis Magna ("Hermes-City Large"), was originally called Ḫmnw, or "City of the Eight" -- referring to the eight primordial deities that sacrificed Themselves to become Creation, with Djehuty, the chief deity of this locale (identified muuuuch later by Greeks with Hermes), as Cosmic supervisor of the act and then Their Setem (a kind of priest acting in a funerary capacity). Again, we shouldn't place any emphasis whatsoever on the meaning of the Greek name with respect to any pre-Ptolemaic Egyptian material.

Rarely, some foreign toponyms (most typically the Hebrew ones) do retain a meaning consistent with the original Egyptian ones. The Hebrew toponym "Pithom" is one such example, which in Egyptian was pr-itmw, meaning "The House of Atum." The Greek name of pr-itmw, "Heroonpolis," comes from a Greek term, heroa, which refers to the shrines commemorating Hero-cults. Thus, "Hero-Shrine-City." :P

Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea by now. ;)

I hope this helps!

Senebty,
Sedjfai
Title: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on April 30, 2018, 09:49:58 pm
Purification #33
Hail Nefertem, coming forth from Huwt-ka-Ptah, I do not wrong myself; I do not do evil (things).

What does it mean by wronging oneself? Earlier in purification #13, we discussed not eating out hearts, but this purification is different. We have just went through a litany of misdeeds and now we come to this one. What do we make of it? How does it affect us at this point in the purifications?

I do not wrong myself….

How many times have we done something we regretted? How many times have we done something that has harmed us physically, psychologically, and emotionally? Harm can leave scars, some very visible and others more difficult to see. How can we recover from these?

I believe this purification could possibly give an answer in the form of Ptah and Sekhmet’s son, Nefertem. Nefertem is more than the god of perfumes and flowers. He is an embodiment of the Tem, the Self-Created One. He emerges from the lotus which represents something very beautiful. Lotuses are born in the murk and mud. They begin life in very nasty surroundings, covered in filth. But as they grow, they reach for the light until finally bursting forth from the murky waters they reside in. They emerge as a beautiful pristine flower, fragrant and stunning.

How often have I saw myself like this? Sometimes I feel bombarded with all my past mistakes. But Nerferum reveals to me that no matter what filth and dirt I have to crawl through, I can wah it away. I can feel his purification envelop me. I too am something beautiful that is filled with the moment of Zep-tepi. I can begin anew.

"Nefertem, Lily of the Sun,
Take all that disguises my true self and wash it clean from my face.
Wash my eyes O Beautiful Youth with your healing hands and help me to see myself as You see me.
For I am pure, my ka is pure, and I am a child of Netjer."
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Awibemhethert on May 01, 2018, 08:28:46 pm
Beautiful. Thank you.


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Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Yinepuemsaes on May 01, 2018, 09:12:25 pm
"Nefertem, Lily of the Sun,
Take all that disguises my true self and wash it clean from my face.
Wash my eyes O Beautiful Youth with your healing hands and help me to see myself as You see me.
For I am pure, my ka is pure, and I am a child of Netjer." 

Beautiful.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tatuayinepu on May 02, 2018, 02:48:08 am
Purification #33
Hail Nefertem, coming forth from Huwt-ka-Ptah, I do not wrong myself; I do not do evil (things).

What does it mean by wronging oneself? Earlier in purification #13, we discussed not eating out hearts, but this purification is different. We have just went through a litany of misdeeds and now we come to this one. What do we make of it? How does it affect us at this point in the purifications?

I do not wrong myself….

How many times have we done something we regretted? How many times have we done something that has harmed us physically, psychologically, and emotionally? Harm can leave scars, some very visible and others more difficult to see. How can we recover from these?

I believe this purification could possibly give an answer in the form of Ptah and Sekhmet’s son, Nefertem. Nefertem is more than the god of perfumes and flowers. He is an embodiment of the Tem, the Self-Created One. He emerges from the lotus which represents something very beautiful. Lotuses are born in the murk and mud. They begin life in very nasty surroundings, covered in filth. But as they grow, they reach for the light until finally bursting forth from the murky waters they reside in. They emerge as a beautiful pristine flower, fragrant and stunning.

How often have I saw myself like this? Sometimes I feel bombarded with all my past mistakes. But Nerferum reveals to me that no matter what filth and dirt I have to crawl through, I can wah it away. I can feel his purification envelop me. I too am something beautiful that is filled with the moment of Zep-tepi. I can begin anew.

"Nefertem, Lily of the Sun,
Take all that disguises my true self and wash it clean from my face.
Wash my eyes O Beautiful Youth with your healing hands and help me to see myself as You see me.
For I am pure, my ka is pure, and I am a child of Netjer."

Em hotep Raheri!

This is beautiful heka, and a wonderful topic.

"I do not wrong myself"

I read this, and think upon a few things that I've read in Karenga's "Ma'at: The Moral Ideal in Ancient Egypt".

The first is a reference to human dignity in the Instructions for Merikare, "snn ntr" or imago dei conception, specifically, "snnw.f pw pri.w m h'w.f, or "they are his images and come from his body". From that, I would consider committing wrong against one's self as any thoughts or actions that are against one's human dignity. Lying, speaking out of turn, speaking hastily, speaking in a way that hurts others, and any number of behaviors that harm the self with or without harming others.

I am continuously working on recognizing my own human dignity and self worth, from a lifetime of feeling like I didn't have much of either. I have made bad decisions and many mistakes in my life, due in part to not recognizing these. I used to think that I had to somehow "earn" basic human dignity and "achieve" self worth. If I am reading the above correctly, though, I believe it suggests an inherent sense of human dignity, because we are children of Netjer. That isn't an achievement, it is a state of being, something that we didn't ask for. It is a precious gift. It reflects love, and causes me to ponder the love They have for us. I further believe there's a connection to our awareness of inherent human dignity within ourselves, and the concepts of self worth and self love.

Which leads me to another favorite topic within Karenga's book: A discussion on the essential goodness of human nature, which describes in detail the differences between the moral offenses in Kemetic ethical literature, and the Judeo Christian concept of "sin". The Augustinian concept of sin as a "disease of the soul", or a soiled and wounded soul does not have its roots in Kemetic ethical principles, instead, it is moral failure. According to Frankfort, it is foolishness and aberration which brings unhappiness because of the resulting disturbance with the harmonious integration with the existing world. Frankfort further states that it is lack of insight or lack of self restraint being at the root of man's misfortunes, not a basic corruption. One is capable of self transcendence by self understanding in community and self transformation rather than by grace. It is not by grace, but by following Ma'at, that is posed as the key to moral grounding and human flourishing (Karenga)

Karenga further elaborates on this by describing Ma'at as the grounds for the ontological unity between Creator and humans, and what is required is to recognize one's true nature and to act accordingly, as Ra. If Ma'at is the spiritual/ethical dimension of humans, the critical constitutive element of being human, then Ma'at must be cultivated by righteous thought, emotion, speech, and conduct in order for each human to realize his or her potential fully(Karenga).

He further states that learning Ma'at requires an openness of self to both instruction and change and involves hearing, acting, attentiveness, and putting into practice.

For me, this means a lot. This means I'm not inherently flawed as a human being, and that when I make mistakes it is due to ignorance of what the correct behavior is. That flies in the face of Judeo Christian tenets which refer to "original sin", which states that Man is "fallen", "prone to sin", and damaged beyond recall. I can work to perfect my understanding and I can act in ways that reflect a better understanding. Through right thoughts and right action, I can unlearn teachings that I interpreted to mean that something was inherently wrong with me that I couldn't fix.

I always have a chance to do better, and the heka of Nefertum does not have a time limit, or tell us that anyone that has made more than say, 2000, mistakes is un redeemable.

Through learning and practice, I can grow in awareness of my true nature, its inherent divinity, and its inherent worth. The more I am aware of it, the less likely I am to do something that is counter to it; thusly, I am less likely to commit a wrong against myself.

Thank you Raheri for the post, and for helping me to take another look inside one of my favorite books about Ma'at.

Tatuayinepu
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tjemsy on May 02, 2018, 06:13:10 am
Thank you so much for posting this. Nefertum(-Imhotep) is a newly-divined Beloved of mine, so I am always glad to hear about him. <3
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Senuwierneheh on May 02, 2018, 08:07:00 am
Thank you for those beautiful thoughts, Raheri and Tatua!  They are so needed!

Senebty,
Neheh...

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Sobeqsenu on May 02, 2018, 09:06:49 am
Em hotep Raheri! I am so glad to see these postings resume. Thank you for this beautiful reflection.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on May 03, 2018, 09:27:14 am
Thank you Raheri for the post, and for helping me to take another look inside one of my favorite books about Ma'at.

Tatuayinepu

Thank you for your insightful commentary!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Capra on May 03, 2018, 01:35:20 pm
Em hotep and thank you for resuming these posts! #33 is especially timely. <3
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tatuayinepu on May 03, 2018, 11:50:35 pm
Em hotep all,

Further thoughts on this Purification came to me after talking with a few other people about this.

"I do not wrong myself, I do not do isfet"

We've already discussed making mistakes as wronging ourselves, and that Nefertum heka which is so beautiful :) 

I also wondered about negative self talk counting as a wrong against ourselves, and the "disguises" referred to in the Nefertum heka that prevent us from seeing ourselves as Netjer see us, are to a greater or lesser extent, created by our own self talk?

I know that my earliest memories of myself as a child, had the beginnings of negative self talk. This continued throughout my life, although I am aware enough these days to be able to spot and to change that self talk.

At least for me, the habit and the content of negative self talk was learned behavior; behavior habits that were formed before I realized what they were and how damaging they could be.

Fortunately, even though those years of negative self talk did create "disguises" in how I learned to see myself, I am not a "damaged soul". Like the lotus that emerges from the muck, I can emerge from the particular yuck of negative self talk and the disguises it has created, and the mental habits from years of repetition.

One thing that I do, is the practice of being present in the moment. This practice is not necessarily KO, I learned it from the study of Tibetan Buddhism. Basically what it is, is focusing on just this present moment in time, which according to the Tibetan Buddhists, is all we have; not the past or the future (although our future is determined to a greater or lesser extent on what we do in the present).

I can, however, make a comparison to the Zep Tepi, which we have available to us in Kemetic Orthodox. We can, every day, recreate ourselves. If we break down a day to a number of hours, and an hour to minutes, we can similarly have "mini" Zep Tepy's.

This is applicable to being present in the moment, if I am able to slow myself down enough, if I am able to cultivate the habit of being present and able to catch the negative talk springing up and use this "gap" to reframe the negativity in words that are less caustic/untrue/nasty.

I am nowhere near 100% successful with this, but knowing I have the potentiality available and that what I tell myself can, and does, change how I see myself to something that is more in line with how Netjer see me, is very powerful.

Knowing that I am loved by Them, that this isn't conditional, and that I am like the lotus, makes all the difference. Knowing that I can recreate myself, any time, whether that means several times in an hour for bad days, or a few times on a good day, is really awesome. I'm no longer stuck in the idea that, because I've made mistakes I'm destined to continue to make them.

Destiny, to me, is variable.

Hope this made sense!

Tatuayinepu

Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on May 04, 2018, 02:26:38 pm
"I do not wrong myself, I do not do isfet"
Em hotep Tatuatinepu!

Actually the word here is not isfet but iry bin. According to Hemet's notes, bin is an evil action or thought which can be translated as bad or negative. Isfet is actually a state of being opposed to Ma'at. A quite different concept indeed! Bin could lead to isfet which according to Hemet is what this purification may be trying to prevent.

Mindfulness is an excellent practice as is used in many psychotherapies for the treatment of depression and anxiety. A very predominant practice in Mahayana forms of Buddhism, but seems to be crossing over into mainstream society as well.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tatuayinepu on May 04, 2018, 06:10:31 pm
"I do not wrong myself, I do not do isfet"
Em hotep Tatuatinepu!

Actually the word here is not isfet but iry bin. According to Hemet's notes, bin is an evil action or thought which can be translated as bad or negative. Isfet is actually a state of being opposed to Ma'at. A quite different concept indeed! Bin could lead to isfet which according to Hemet is what this purification may be trying to prevent.

Mindfulness is an excellent practice as is used in many psychotherapies for the treatment of depression and anxiety. A very predominant practice in Mahayana forms of Buddhism, but seems to be crossing over into mainstream society as well.

Thank you for the distinction in the terms, I was working from the Ancient Egyptian Prayer book and a few other translations...that did not make that.

Always better to define the terms, instead of assuming or categorizing things into one.

Tatuayinepu
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Gleb on July 08, 2018, 12:17:18 pm
Hi guys!

Recently I was thinking. How do the Netjeru view white lies?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on July 13, 2018, 02:59:18 pm
Hi guys!

Recently I was thinking. How do the Netjeru view white lies?

Em hotep Gleb! We touched on this a little back in Purification #8.

Purification #8

Hail Fiery One, coming forth backwards, I do not speak lies.


In this purification, we call on the Eye of Ra, the cobra. The cobra protects Kemet, the gods, and our Nisut Hekatawy I (AUS). It does this by spitting out its fiery venom.
 
The one who wears the cobra can act as Ma’at herself, thus seeing through lies. This specific cobra is the one which sits on the head of Wesir Himself. Thus we are stating to the one who sees through lies at our own judgment. At that judgment we will not be able to hide behind our own lies when questioned by the Great God.

So the question is, are we ready? Can we “honestly” say we speak no lies? Can we stand before the one who sees us as we are and make this proclamation? I know that at this point I my life, I cannot. This is a flaw which requires me to act. I am not perfect, but do I tell lies to those I love to save them form the harsh reality of the truth that I think I see? DO I tell my friends that juicy gossip I heard when I have no way to back up if it is true? Or do I let those little white lies slowly build up. I see myself as an honest man, but I still feel very uncomfortable walking up to my Father, the Foremost of the Westerners, and saying, “I do not speak lies.”
Senebty,

Raheri
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tatuayinepu on July 13, 2018, 04:06:57 pm
Em hotep *henu*

For me, this is an ongoing process. I grow in awareness, especially in this year of Sekhmet and Ma'at, and make myself open to Their teachings. Sometimes this seems to come from both ends, but I do learn and grow :)

In my experience, there is no middle ground. If it is untrue, it is untrue; and I need to ask myself why I might be tempted to say it.

Tatuayinepu

Tatuayinepu
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Gleb on July 15, 2018, 11:03:42 am
Hi guys!

Recently I was thinking. How do the Netjeru view white lies?

Em hotep Gleb! We touched on this a little back in Purification #8.

Purification #8

Hail Fiery One, coming forth backwards, I do not speak lies.


In this purification, we call on the Eye of Ra, the cobra. The cobra protects Kemet, the gods, and our Nisut Hekatawy I (AUS). It does this by spitting out its fiery venom.
 
The one who wears the cobra can act as Ma’at herself, thus seeing through lies. This specific cobra is the one which sits on the head of Wesir Himself. Thus we are stating to the one who sees through lies at our own judgment. At that judgment we will not be able to hide behind our own lies when questioned by the Great God.

So the question is, are we ready? Can we “honestly” say we speak no lies? Can we stand before the one who sees us as we are and make this proclamation? I know that at this point I my life, I cannot. This is a flaw which requires me to act. I am not perfect, but do I tell lies to those I love to save them form the harsh reality of the truth that I think I see? DO I tell my friends that juicy gossip I heard when I have no way to back up if it is true? Or do I let those little white lies slowly build up. I see myself as an honest man, but I still feel very uncomfortable walking up to my Father, the Foremost of the Westerners, and saying, “I do not speak lies.”
Senebty,

Raheri

Thanks :)
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Tatuayinepu on July 15, 2018, 01:02:25 pm
Em hotep,

We're also currently discussing the 42 Purifications at the weekly Thursday Fellowship discussion group. We just discussed this particular one a few days ago :)

Tatuayinepu
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Asethepetwi on July 17, 2018, 03:34:53 pm
Raheri, please continue posting your texts about each Purification, I just read the entire post and this has been very helping!
Thank you so much for this!
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Asethepetwi on July 23, 2018, 08:41:41 pm
So... I'll try to continue this.

Purification #34
Hail You-Who-Leaves-Nothing-Out, coming forth from Djedu, I do not revile authority.

(in another edition I have of the purifications it is said to be "O thou who lets none survive, who came forth from Busiris, I have not reviled (the king).")

I confess I don't know who is this confession talking to, maybe to Wesir himself (Not leaving nothing out... of the duat?), but the meaning of this is very clear to me: Respect those who you must respect and follow the laws you should follow - all in Ma'at.
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Capra on August 08, 2018, 01:35:07 pm
From here, a possibility:
http://volunteer.nelson-atkins.org/documents/Docent/Research%20-%20Ancient%20Art%20Docent%20Handbook%20-%20Egyptian%20-%20Aug.%202010.pdf

Quote
Assessor God 35 (human-headed)
O Temsep who came forth from Busiris
Spell 125 (Assessor God 35)
O Thou Who Lets None Survive who came forth from Busiris, I have not reviled [the King].

Could Temsep be the deity in question? Or is that a title for another?
Title: Re: The 42 Purifications
Post by: Raheri on August 08, 2018, 08:20:38 pm
So... I'll try to continue this.

Purification #34
Hail You-Who-Leaves-Nothing-Out, coming forth from Djedu, I do not revile authority.

(in another edition I have of the purifications it is said to be "O thou who lets none survive, who came forth from Busiris, I have not reviled (the king).")

I confess I don't know who is this confession talking to, maybe to Wesir himself (Not leaving nothing out... of the duat?), but the meaning of this is very clear to me: Respect those who you must respect and follow the laws you should follow - all in Ma'at.

I will continue these shortly. I only go to the next one when Netjer inspires me. This whole forum post is a very personal prayer that has encompassed years for me as I continue to commune with god, and I expect to continue for a few more or when Netjer chooses for me to complete it.