The House of Netjer, a Kemetic Orthodox Temple

[PUBLIC] About the Kemetic Orthodox Religion => [PUBLIC] Kemet Today - Rev. Tamara's Blog & Podcast => Topic started by: Cirrus on May 02, 2009, 11:34:36 pm

Title: A Word on RPD
Post by: Cirrus on May 02, 2009, 11:34:36 pm
I read the latest entry regarding the "Rite of Parent Divination" and felt that it was highly applicable to me, and I'm not sure how happy I should be about that.  

It came to me in this way: I agreed with the Nisut's point that having the individual choose the Name they associate with themselves, puts the power in the hands of the individual.  As if I (for example) were browsing through a lineup in a store for just the right god to go with my wallpaper.  

I doubt it's so callous for anyone who takes this seriously, but I think we all have some idea of how fickle or muddled we, as flawed human beings, can be.  Our earthly preferences can be affected by so much, and by so little.  Our favorite animal, a cool picture we saw, a facet of the god's personality that we want to identify with, etc.  More then half the time we aren't even aware of the factors that influence us, or we rationalize them away without really understanding.  
It's not malicious, it's just the nature of people, of humans, trying to understand ourselves, and how our thoughts work (I'm reminded of one of my favorite quote from Mon Oncle D'amerique An individual's personality "...is built upon a grab-bag of value-judgments, personal prejudices and platitudes...remove a single stone from this edifice and it all crumbles, resulting in anguish")  

Even as I was reading, I nodded my head in agreement.  
But thinking of this brought another thought into my head: what if I ever take part in the RPD myself and find that neither Yinepu or Seth were related to me?  

I was honestly somewhat frightened.  They are the two who I feel the most strongly attracted to.  And I suddenly had to question how loyal I would still be if I were told that Hethert, or Bast, or a more traditionally "obscure" Name was revealed to me.  

It was a moment of very pointed self-invasion.  I felt somewhat ashamed, as if I had revealed a betrayal within myself (that may be part of the "anguish" that Professor Laborit meant in his quote).  

Overall, I feel that such introspection is what keeps us honest with ourselves, and while it's sometimes a kick-in-the-butt to our egos and our feelings of stability, it might help us better understand Ma'at and how it's not always a self-guided journey.

Cirrus
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Djehutyendy on May 03, 2009, 12:43:38 am
Em hotep, Cirrus

Quote from: Cirrus

Even as I was reading, I nodded my head in agreement.  
But thinking of this brought another thought into my head: what if I ever take part in the RPD myself and find that neither Yinepu or Seth were related to me?  

I was honestly somewhat frightened.  They are the two who I feel the most strongly attracted to.  And I suddenly had to question how loyal I would still be if I were told that Hethert, or Bast, or a more traditionally "obscure" Name was revealed to me.  
 


I just want to say that I understand your fear. I waited over a year before I had my RPD, and part of the reason was for what you have expressed in this post. I just want to say that no matter what your line-up is, it does not mean that you cannot have a relationship with another Name.

If Yinepu or Set were not related to you, I do not think that should weaken your relationship with Them. They are a part of your life for a reason (and only you can find what that reason is), and it doesn't matter if They helped make you or not. However, if you have such a strong relationship with Them and feel that They should be in your line-up somewhere, there is a great chance They are.

This is just my 2 cents. But everyone is different.

After I was divined, I was very content with Who showed up (Daughter of Djehuty and Beloved of Hethert), and I tried to accept that Geb didn't show up. I kept just saying that I just had a close relationship with Him. But after only a few months, I knew this was wrong (mainly by Geb telling me), so I asked Hemet to do another divination for me. It turned out He was a Beloved :) Then after this, I got thinking about the whole process of "obtaining a new beloved" and I learned that others have felt that a certain Name should be "related" to them, but that Name really is not. I don't know a whole lot on this, just that I know that quite a few people think a particular Name should be in their line-up, but is not. I do not know any examples that I could explain here (hopefully someone will chime in and add to this).

Ok, so I'm definitely rambling. I hoped this helped even a little. I have more to ramble about but I will stop here. Believe me, your fears are not uncommon among the people in this faith. I have spoken with many people who have said "If X-Name does not show up in my line-up, I will not become a Shemsu." And to be honest, all those I have spoken to about this are Shemsu.

Senebty
Endy
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Cirrus on May 03, 2009, 01:47:40 am
Thank you Djehutyendy for the comfort.  

It's an often overlooked truism, but at times it really is supportive to know that I'm not alone in my fears.  

While fear may now be too strong a word, the uncertainty of not knowing the outcome, and even more biting, not knowing myself, leaves plenty of room for second-guessing and hesitation.  

I try and look at these kind of things as the rumblings of instability as the foundation sits; and after the shift, the structure is more secure because of it.
 
I've only just started looking into this faith seriously and it's bound to happen that there will be some cataracts between the smooth water.  

So far the solidarity of this community, and the openness with which you share with one another is already doing a lot to help me overcome my trepidations, and I hope that as I have more of these "introspective moments" and begin to understand myself better, I can grow into a better person because of them, and be a better member of the community (if that's my future here).  

Cirrus
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on May 03, 2009, 02:43:15 am
Quote

Even as I was reading, I nodded my head in agreement.
But thinking of this brought another thought into my head: what if I ever take part in the RPD myself and find that neither Yinepu or Seth were related to me?


Em Hotep Cirrus,

I definitely understand your concerns. Every divined remetj has been there. I would say that as long as you don't take this evaluation as some kind of judgement, you should be fine.

There are no losers in the RPD regardless of prior relationships because all of our Gods are awesome, multilayered beings with different kinds of insight and support to share with us. So if you feel prompted to receive the RPD and happen to get a surprise; you aren't losing a God, you're gaining one (or more).

I think that in many cases, in addition to us having chosen our Gods pre-RPD, They may actually have chosen us and we have chosen Them back.

Another way to look at the RPD, is that it highlights whether The Gods we already venerate have chosen us as children, as beloveds or as something else.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tawaisenu on May 03, 2009, 03:41:29 pm
Ma'ai, what you last said is interesting, "Another way to look at the RPD is that it highlights whether the Gods we already venerate have chosen us as children, as beloveds or as something else."

I have heard people talk about their RPD's, saying that that was when their Gods "claimed" them....I am slightly confused by this, because aren't our Parent gods with us at least, our whole lives? Since They create our ba? I can understand Beloveds claiming someone, because They help shape our personality in this life.

I like what you said, but I am a little confused by the "choosing" part of it. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on May 03, 2009, 04:23:54 pm
Hotep, Riley.

It is my understanding that when people use the term 'claim,' they are referring to that first moment when their parent revealed his or herself, not that we are up for grabs for whoever claims us first.  

Please correct me if I am incorrect.

Blessings and Senebty,

Catlin
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tawaisenu on May 03, 2009, 05:14:45 pm
Oh ok-thanks for clarifying that Catlin! :)

Senebty,
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on May 03, 2009, 07:14:58 pm
Quote from: Djehutyendy
you have such a strong relationship with Them and feel that They should be in your line-up somewhere, there is a great chance They are.

I have spoken with many people who have said "If X-Name does not show up in my line-up, I will not become a Shemsu." And to be honest, all those I have spoken to about this are Shemsu.




i have seen quite a few people post stories like this too, and it's comforting to hear!

i understand your concerns as well, Cirrus.  i think the thing that may tend to worry us so is the idea that we may be expected to honor another Name or Names **before** the Name(s) we feel closest to.  we may understand that we can still have relationships with Those we've always had relationships with, but we worry that it somehow won't feel the same.  i think that whether it is or is not is probably largely up to us and the way we react to our results.  

any way you look at it, the RPD is a very big step, but whenever i think i'm getting too angsty about it, i remember that it's not required of us in order to be a member of this wonderful community, and we can take as long as we need to be ready!  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on May 04, 2009, 02:15:21 am
Quote from: RileyRose
Ma'ai, what you last said is interesting, "Another way to look at the RPD is that it highlights whether the Gods we already venerate have chosen us as children, as beloveds or as something else."

I have heard people talk about their RPD's, saying that that was when their Gods "claimed" them....I am slightly confused by this, because aren't our Parent gods with us at least, our whole lives? Since They create our ba?


That's the idea. :)

Quote
I can understand Beloveds claiming someone, because They help shape our personality in this life.

I like what you said, but I am a little confused by the "choosing" part of it. :)


In addition to what Catlin already said about claiming; I would add that "create" and "choose" are not mutually exclusive terms.

It might also be helpful to consider the idea of Parent Gods creating the ba and whether you feel it applies to people who are not Kemetic.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on May 04, 2009, 06:43:21 am
Excellent point, Ma'ai, and one I hadn't really thought much about.  

Quote
It might also be helpful to consider the idea of Parent Gods creating the ba and whether you feel it applies to people who are not Kemetic.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Awetitu on May 04, 2009, 09:05:32 am
I was almost 100% certain I was a cat-kid.  I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that Bast was my mother about 2 years ago.

Bast had been an influence in my life as a Wiccan and She had brought me by the House and pushed me (along with my roommate's gentle coercion...lol) to take the Beginners' Course.  As I took the Beginners' Course, the Name that I was certain was going to be in my line-up slowly started to feel more and more distant to me.  She had, apparently, done Her job and was effectively handing me off to those who, it turned out, are my Parents.  I was upset that She did not appear in my line-up anywhere, but that doesn't mean that I don't still have a relationship with her.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: flower_of_the_nile on May 04, 2009, 09:11:17 am
I understand of what you mean...
Though my experience of this is from past lives still effect me.


Though if it was two years and still feel a concencetion try to medatiate it will help guide you to her or to something greater
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Shezatwepwawet on May 04, 2009, 10:50:03 am
First, just because you get your divination, and whether or not you choose to become Shemsu, there's nothing in there that says you cannot honor other Names. They're probably still around and are VERY unlikely to turn down offerings/prayers/conversations/etc.

Before my RPD I prepped myself for almost Anyone showing up. Always had a jackal draw (even a few interesting dreams over the years), but I truly was not sure Who'd be my Parent, and at a complete loss for any possible Beloved.
Short form: I was divined Wepwawet's daughter (the ONE option I never considered), and looking at both His personality and His kids, and realizing that those qualities were part of me, I quickly got hit with the clue by four that I had been seriously underestimating myself for a very long time.

I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is, only that I needed to make mention of what my RPD taught me. well, one thing anyway.

Cirrus, having both those Names is also interesting to me, because Set is never a solo Parent; He's always one of two.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sobeqsenu on May 04, 2009, 01:14:12 pm
I think the most important thing to remember is that the RPD is not meant to close off relationships with other deities, but to expand, deepen, or introduce an extremely important kind of relationship with certain deities. I'd say it's equally as important to be able to maintain a relationship with deities not present in one's RPD as it is to honor one's Parents and Beloveds appropriately.

Personally, I didn't have any Names I was expecting NOT show up - the only one I was really hoping for was my Father, Wepwawet. Beyond that, all the Names Who stepped forward were surprising to some degree. There were Names I was interested in, but the fact that they didn't turn up in the divination hasn't eliminated them from my life.

That said, excellent points about the fickle nature of human attraction. Very very interesting stuff. :)

Senebty,
Sobeq
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Arienihethert on May 06, 2009, 11:34:03 am
Way back when I first found these gods, I had a very active relationship with Sekhmet. It was through her that I began to understand Hethert, and learning about Hethert helped me learn more about Sekhmet. I like them together, and always felt that I had connected well with both.

Then I was divined a child of Hethert-Mut--no Sekhmet in sight. So I put her statue a way for a while and just focused on the gods of my RPD. Then Taweret found her way onto my shrine, and then I moved, and when I set up my shrine here, it was time for Sekhmet to go back up. After thinking about it for a while, she's still a part of my life, and a part I value very highly. It makes me happy to have her up there next to Mom again. :)

Not sure if any of that is helpful, but that's my experience.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: TabauAmunet on May 06, 2009, 12:39:51 pm
mHtp Cirrus!

Quote from: Cirrus
Overall, I feel that such introspection is what keeps us honest with ourselves, and while it's sometimes a kick-in-the-butt to our egos and our feelings of stability, it might help us better understand Ma'at and how it's not always a self-guided journey.


Although my expected Parent--Amunet did show up, it wasn't exactly how i'd figured. And even then, She was so unusual and obscure, that the Nisut said She may just be a form of Mut, under a title or something. For that matter, I was almost certain Sekhmet was a Mother of mine, and even Hemet said it looked like She was my second Mother, but had stepped back to Beloved (how that works is beyond me.. Sekhmet always called Herself my Parent). And there's a long string of Netjeru that have made it apparent They've got some connection to me in more than just passing, but not a single one of Them showed up as a Beloved.

Just two Names, total. And yet some people have 6 or more?

Part of the reason i took the RPD was because i wanted to know a little more about myself. I was very confused at first, because of all the uncertainty, but anymore i realize the technicality of the matter isn't what counts. It's the actual relationship with Netjer that matters, no matter what you call it.

Heck, i forget where i read it, but i remember some old reference i found where there was a funerary text/inscription in a tomb where one man claimed to have 26 Names that loved/claimed him. 26!? Can you imagine?

That just goes to show that even when we think we've got it right, we can never be quite sure, on any level. We're only human afterall, and fallible. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Hetesibastmut on May 20, 2009, 08:29:06 am
I had joked for most of my life that I was raised by cats, as there have always been cats in my life and my relationship with them has been sibling-close for the most part.  I have always had a passion for books and learning, and my second home (and often my only solace in a world that has repeatedly made no sense to me) has always been behind a door of ink and paper.  

I had no expectations or preconceived notions when I approached my RPD.  I simply answered a call.  How surprising it is to learn that my life's passions have been a reflection of the Names that have taken an interest in me and that my observation in jest is not quite as much as joke as I thought it was.

Or perhaps not a surprise at all.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on July 22, 2009, 11:10:49 pm
I would just like to interject:  

Allowing someone else to choose who can and will have power in any facet of your life is a huge thing; a very powerful transaction.  You must accept the responsibility of any and all outcomes, as well as you must realise that you are giving your power away to someone else who may or may not have your best interests at heart.

I do believe this is a very important thing to keep in mind.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on July 23, 2009, 12:21:49 pm
Well, that implies a belief that someone is in fact choosing for you.  I didn't see RPD that way.  I don't think Hemet chose my gods for me so much as had the proper tools to see Who was already there.  Just a difference in perspective, I guess.  
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sedjemes on July 23, 2009, 12:38:42 pm
Hotep :)

The RPD does not choose for us who THE only gods are that we should ever talk or offer to, or expect to care about us. On the contrary--it tells us who set us into being at a profound level. But all of us have very meaningful and significant interactions with many gods--sometimes we even know about these interactions :) And every single Name of Netjer knows well about each of us.

And undertaking the RPD is not required, nor is accepting its decision after. Undergoing the RPD is necessary only if one wants to acquire the information it will offer.  One can be a Remetj and not undergo it. Accepting its information is expected only if one wishes to become a Shemsu of Kemetic Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on July 23, 2009, 02:10:16 pm
Quote from: Seta
Allowing someone else to choose who can and will have power in any facet of your life is a huge thing; a very powerful transaction. You must accept the responsibility of any and all outcomes, as well as you must realise that you are giving your power away to someone else who may or may not have your best interests at heart.


Em Hotep,

As a diviner, I see a huge difference between allowing another human to choose something and using a tool to reveal something already chosen.

As far as who can and will have power in ANY facet of my life is concerned; I do not even give my Gods such dominion over me, nor do They ask for it. I am responsible for my life because I do not hand it over to anyone.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Khesretitui on July 23, 2009, 09:21:56 pm
I don't see the RPD as a loss of power or control. It's a willingness to take a look at how things really are in terms of who gave rise to you. Looking at Things-As-They-Are isn't always fun. In fact, in my life, it's been enlightening, but never tons of fun.

Some people may feel that they drive the boat, so to speak, in terms of their spirituality, choosing their gods, and so on. If that's you, then go for it. By saying it like it is I don't mean any offense. However, be honest enough to admit this. Walk your path, but walk it honestly, and you won't go wrong.

In my case, I suspected Set was involved but didn't know. I was almost sure that Heru-wer or Yinepu would come up, and I figured one or both for parents. Ra-Heruakhety, though, threw me. I didn't expect him. In fact, I knew almost nothing about him.

I went into the RPD to find out how things are. I was surprised. I guess I could have gotten very upset that I wasn't a Heru or Yinepu kid (although both did show up after all as Beloveds), but what good would that do me? I can also get upset that I'm a white woman with green eyes. In neither case will griping "fix" it -- and there really is nothing to fix.

If you get surprised, don't say, "Hey! That's not right!" Say, "Huh. I wonder what I can learn from this?" And once again, if you know you've got too much riding on a possible result that's contrary to your expectations, and if you know that such a thing would hurt you more than help you, then don't do it.

You trade your expectations for certainty in taking the RPD. You trade your certainty to continue meeting your expectations without fail in not doing the RPD.

As for how much influence the gods exert, I'm apparently not a normal case. Set is very much first for me. He overshadows just about everything else in my RPD and definitely everything that makes up my spirituality that isn't Kemetic Orthodox.

Lately he got on my case about getting distracted with other things and gave me a nice, fatherly kick in the head. "I'm first," he said. "You can do that other [expletive], and that's fine, but I'm first. Don't forget it."

So your mileage may vary. Other gods are less like that, from what I hear.

All that to say, in summary, that you should do what you feel is right and accept the consequences of your choice. That's about all I can say.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on August 10, 2009, 11:23:10 pm
I believe that is what I said, Khesretitui.

Still, it's not a crime to follow one's heart.  I do not recall it being listed so in the 42 negative confessions.

If one's heart says that a god has a role in one's life (and one's personal experiences speak the same), even if other humans say otherwise, it is not wrong to continue to believe that as well as state that.

But, that free will is not presented here; one person claims that she knows about the souls of those who come to her.  That coming to her is free will...

I just do not really understand it.  I digress the point of the thread; for this, I'm sorry.  I think I've solved an issue I had with this subject.  Of course, since I'm here and 'spoke', I will be available for comment if any come forth regarding my posts.

Thank you for 'hearing' me out.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sekhmetbitu on August 11, 2009, 01:27:23 am
Quote
It is my understanding that when people use the term 'claim,' they are referring to that first moment when their parent revealed his or herself, not that we are up for grabs for whoever claims us first.


Yeah, that's pretty much how it was with Sekhmet and I, years before I was divined, or had even heard of KO.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sekhmetbitu on August 11, 2009, 01:59:26 am
The RPD among other things I'd heard kept me from being really involved with HoN for a long time. I'd heard all the stuff how "they pick your gods for you" etc. And even though I ended up being a daughter of Sekhmet after all, I really like to think I opened my mind to the possibility that it could be anyone, and went to my RPD half expecting Set and/or Wepwawet to show up. I even took off my Sekhmet necklace for the divination because I didn't want to seem presumptuous. It did take a lot of soul serarching to consider that I might be wrong, that perhaps I was misreading messages I'd felt so deeply like a baby duck following a human caaregiver who it thinks is it's mother.

After it was all done, I showed non-Kemetic pagan friends Hemet's article about what it was I just did, and they warmed up to it a lot more than before when I was considering it; the friends who study other indigenous (albeit North American) religions liked the fact that RPD puts the emphasis on the gods and community, and not on, as one friend put it, the "focus(ing) on it as a loss of freedom rather than simply an acknowledgment that we as mortals don't always know what's best and have it all figured out". From the perspective of a lot of North American tribes, contrary to modern New Age thought, one does not pick one's own totems, for example, one inherits the totems of tribe and family - the emphasis is on the community, not the individual's wishes or desires. One could say RPD is Hemet deciding for us who we are children of (I did not get this impression) but if one looks at a lot of traditions from the Near East/Mediterranean, one sees a lot of oracular/divinatory traditions (Delphi being the most famous example), where people for millennia put their faith in the hands of a mortal who was somehow showing the wishes of the divine.

Not trying to say that everyone should have an RPD whether they think they want one or not, far from it, as I said, I get hearing about the practice and raising an eyebrow.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on August 11, 2009, 05:06:59 pm
Quote from: Seta
If one's heart says that a god has a role in one's life (and one's personal experiences speak the same), even if other humans say otherwise, it is not wrong to continue to believe that as well as state that.


Absolutely, and Hemet has said as such many times. Just because a God isn't in your RPD doesn't mean your relationship with them isn't as valid!

Indeed, I still call Bast "mother". And she does not frown on this, in some way I am still her child like she told me many years ago. I just... don't find it to be the same thing as what's meant by the RPD term "Parent". Bast didn't make my ba, however close we have become in the lives since then.


Quote
But, that free will is not presented here; one person claims that she knows about the souls of those who come to her.  That coming to her is free will...


As I've said elsewhere, she doesn't claim to know. She claims to be able to find out through divinatory means. I don't claim to know about other people's lives, but when a friend asks me a question I can pull some cards and creep them out with what they needed to hear. Do you see the difference?


You don't need to understand it. This type of faith isn't for everyone. Here, the power to tell your elders who your Parents are is not in your hands. There are other religions where you can do that. There are others where you can't. It is *totally ok* that this type of religion is not for you. That doesn't mean it has to be bunk, though.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: VioletSkies on August 11, 2009, 05:54:40 pm
Quote from: Taiawepwawet


Quote
But, that free will is not presented here; one person claims that she knows about the souls of those who come to her.  That coming to her is free will...


As I've said elsewhere, she doesn't claim to know. She claims to be able to find out through divinatory means.


(Bolded by me)

This is an important difference to note. Because I myself don't necessarily fully agree with everything in the KO faith -- I moved on to where I am now (a Kemetic Witch) and I'm only a Remetj here instead of the Shemsu-Ankh I once was because of this fact -- so, the question is: Does that mean I believe my divination was incorrect?

No. Because I do maintain confidence in Rev. Siuda's abilities as a spiritual practitioner, and I firmly believe she was given accurate information through a divination process as to my Parents and Beloveds. This doesn't require me to have any faith in her "knowing" it for herself as "secret knowledge" of some kind (which would be Gnosticism, not Kemeticism, really) -- I do contain faith in the fact that she was able to connect with Netjer in such a way to figure it out, however.

That being said... I happen to think other people could potentially do the same thing through similar (or different) divination means, but I'm not here to undermine the faith or Rev. Siuda, I'm only here to add input that is hopefully potentially useful:

There is a difference between stating you contain a higher knowledge, and you were given a higher knowledge -- or, alternatively, you uncovered a higher knowledge.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on August 12, 2009, 08:06:31 pm
Quote

... I happen to think other people could potentially do the same thing through similar (or different) divination means, but I'm not here to undermine the faith or Rev. Siuda,




this leads me to ask:  is it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it?  She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on August 12, 2009, 08:09:18 pm
i wanted to add: i am not trying to undermine the faith or Rev. Siuda either; i just want to understand this point with perfect clarity.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tuwer on August 12, 2009, 08:28:49 pm
Quote from: kathleen
Quote
... I happen to think other people could potentially do the same thing through similar (or different) divination means, but I'm not here to undermine the faith or Rev. Siuda,

this leads me to ask:  is it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it?  She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?
...
i wanted to add: i am not trying to undermine the faith or Rev. Siuda either; i just want to understand this point with perfect clarity.  :)


Within the Kemetic Orthodox faith/mindset, the reason why the RPD is only performed by Rev. Siuda is because during the RPD, Rev. Siuda accepts the person as Her student (and child, in a way) if the person having the RPD vows to be a Shemsu. If other people were to perform the RPD, Rev. Siuda would not be able to accept thoe being RPD'd by other people as Her students/children.

(Weshem-Ib, aka the Shemsu-Ankh ordeal, is when those Shemsu who take it accept/confirm Rev. Siuda as their Mother back.)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on August 12, 2009, 08:46:57 pm
I think I remember Her saying at the RPD weekend though that eventually when/if the faith gets large enough, She might, by necessity, have to delegate RPD divinations to other senior priests.  I don't know how that would work heka-wise though.  And it could be that I misremembered what exactly She said.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on August 12, 2009, 08:56:55 pm
Em hotep,

Ritual of Parent Divination is a Kemetic Orthodox ritual.  It was created for the people of the Kemetic Orthox Nation by the Nisut of the Kemetic Orthodox Nation at the insistance of, and with the guidance of, Netjer, in the aspect of Sekhmet, if I remember correctly.

It may or may not be true that other persons can divine the intent of the Gods in regards to another's soul, I neither know not care if this is so.  

ONLY the Nisut of the Kemetic Orthodox Nation can perform the Ritual of Parent Divination of the Kemetic Orthodox faith.  So, if you want to be a member of the Kemetic Orthodox faith, and you choose to have your Ritual of Parent Divination, you MUST have it done by the Nisut, who, at this time, is Reverand Siuda.

It all comes down to trust.  You trust Hemet.  You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods.  You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods.  You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.  If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.

RPD is not a requirement.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: VioletSkies on August 12, 2009, 10:29:54 pm
Quote from: kathleen
Quote

... I happen to think other people could potentially do the same thing through similar (or different) divination means, but I'm not here to undermine the faith or Rev. Siuda,



this leads me to ask:  is it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it?  She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?


From a perspective from within the KO faith? The answer is yes (unless that has changed in the last 8 years since I've been here!)
 


Quote from: Tahai

 If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.
 


To be honest, I respectfully disagree. I don't think you have to fully and completely trust... that would be like telling a Christian who has doubts that they are not a Christian.

I had a lot of doubts... a lot. I started off as a Kemetic Wiccan, and when I came to KO I had doubts: as a beginner, as a Remetj, as a Shemsu, and as a Shemsu-Ankh. I'm the doubting type, and I don't trust easily, not ever. I still don't, and I never will, it's just part of who I am.

I still went through with my RPD back then, and I do not regret it one bit. It solidified my faith back then for a time, actually... a lot of my doubts became more clear instead on many subjects once my Father was revealed to me, though other things remained cloudy that, over time, pushed me to grow in different directions. But, that doesn't mean my divination back then was worthless or shouldn't have been done. It was what it was back then, it was part of my path, part of my growth, and is an important part of who I am.

Everyone's life path is different. Some people trust 100%, and other people trust 2% and need to take a 98% leap of faith. Genuine well-intentioned leaps of faith are not wrong, I'd hate for anyone to think that they are.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on August 13, 2009, 03:05:12 am
Quote from: Tahai
You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods. You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods. You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.


Um, excuse me, but **** no. No human is capable of this without some bias or error. Fortunately our Gods, thank Them, speak for Themselves, even while we in turn, receive Their messages with bias and error.

I trust Hemet to do the best she can. Anyone who hopes for more, from anyone, is setting themselves up for a world of hurt, imo.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Inibmutes on August 13, 2009, 12:29:23 pm
Perhaps the best thing I can say about Parent Divination for us, is that it doesn't tell us who we worship - it tells us about *ourselves*, not Netjer.  So, in many ways, it's a window into what we are, that we don't often get.  It's not, however, an absolute commentary on what relationships we may (or may not) have with the Gods.  It can be the opening of a door that leads into conversation on a new journey, it can be an affirmation of what was suspected, and it always quite transformative even if you don't see or behold the results for some time.  

What Parent Divination does for us, is begin a line of critical thinking and working in our spiritual lives.  Even if you agree one-hundred percent and aren't surprised, the act of beginning that line of inquiry is transformative - regardless of whether you accept it or not, stay here or not, do something else or not.  You begin to approach and look at yourself for who you really are.  No small feat to begin, to say the least.

As with most tools, the end result of your work depends on what you make with what you've been given.  Ultimately, the choice is yours where it takes you or not, and what it does for you, or not.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Herupaneb on August 16, 2009, 05:51:36 pm
 
Quote
it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it? She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?
 


Yes. Rev. Siuda created the concept of Parents and Beloveds as something that is divined for, under the guidance of Sekhmet. She created the Rite of Parent Divination as the medium to do this, and she is the only person who does it.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on August 16, 2009, 08:56:27 pm
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
Absolutely, and Hemet has said as such many times. Just because a God isn't in your RPD doesn't mean your relationship with them isn't as valid!

I was told (in so many words) that my relationship with Set was invalid.  Tamara, your Nisut, told me that because she didn't see Setian traits within me, she very well couldn't believe I was a child of Set.  Most of my spiritual doings had dealt with Set.  This was my own conscious doing, as well as something inside of my heart was awoken.  Set spoke with me, He named me, and I felt Him around me most of the time.  I was to let all of this go, despite everything.  It meant nothing.

As well, during my time observing both as an insider and outsider to the membership of this group, it's repeatedly happened that cliques form dedicated to the different Netjeru.  There's a habit that because one 'is a child' of a god or goddess, that one would be in some way more qualified than anyone else to speak about his or her parent.  Once again, it was painfully enforced to me that even speaking about Set was unwelcome - even in private matters between myself and other members.

My heart was stomped on and thrown back at me.

Quote from: Nesiwepwawet
I had a lot of doubts... a lot. I started off as a Kemetic Wiccan, and when I came to KO I had doubts: as a beginner, as a Remetj, as a Shemsu, and as a Shemsu-Ankh. I'm the doubting type, and I don't trust easily, not ever. I still don't, and I never will, it's just part of who I am.

...and...

Quote from: Maainakhtsen
I trust Hemet to do the best she can. Anyone who hopes for more, from anyone, is setting themselves up for a world of hurt, imo.

I truly need to develop my breaks when it comes to the trust factor; indeed, I believe I would not be in this mess I find myself in, spiritually, if I had knowledge of and used them.  I do and do not trust, and seem to lean, to the point of falling over, more so to the side of 'trust.'  As well, I could have and should have had a good dose of self esteem to know what was best for me.  At the very least, I should have given it all more time.  I realize this now.

Quote from: Sekhmetbitu
After it was all done, I showed non-Kemetic pagan friends Hemet's article about what it was I just did, and they warmed up to it a lot more than before when I was considering it; the friends who study other indigenous (albeit North American) religions liked the fact that RPD puts the emphasis on the gods and community, and not on, as one friend put it, the "focus(ing) on it as a loss of freedom rather than simply an acknowledgment that we as mortals don't always know what's best and have it all figured out". From the perspective of a lot of North American tribes, contrary to modern New Age thought, one does not pick one's own totems, for example, one inherits the totems of tribe and family - the emphasis is on the community, not the individual's wishes or desires. One could say RPD is Hemet deciding for us who we are children of (I did not get this impression) but if one looks at a lot of traditions from the Near East/Mediterranean, one sees a lot of oracular/divinatory traditions (Delphi being the most famous example), where people for millennia put their faith in the hands of a mortal who was somehow showing the wishes of the divine.

I cannot argue this point.  In all archaic cultures, there were elders, at least one, who were most trusted with all the divine and mundane doings of the group - though not always the same person.  I understand.  I can't think of anything to say to debate this paragraph.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Khesretitui on August 16, 2009, 09:41:14 pm
Frankly, I'm not even sure it's helpful to respond to this, but I dislike seeing my faith misrepresented.

I'm only going to say what follows, and then no more.

You've established your position, and it's clear that nobody will change your mind. This is more for the elucidation of others:

1. You are still allowed to be here. No one banned you. No one made you change your Username, your Signature, or your Avatar. No one censors or edits you here. You are treated as a guest.

2. You can choose to dissociate yourself from this group/site at any time. Nothing holds you here except for whatever you feel that keeps you coming to these boards.

3. Just because your relationship with Set may not work out in KO terms exactly as you see it outside of the faith does not invalidate it for you. You can have whatever relationship with Set you please, on whatever level you please. On the opposite hand, you cannot force something like an entire faith to change because you disagree with it. It's not negotiable. If your experience and the tenets of a faith don't match, you have to make a choice. You made a choice, and I have not seen one person who doesn't honor that choice here.

4. People will associate with whom they please. If they want to clique up, as you say, that is their right. At my workplace, people clique up by field. Biologists with biologists. Historians with historians. English scholars with English scholars. Cliques happen everywhere. They are not a personal plot against anyone. They are a byproduct of human interaction.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on August 16, 2009, 10:23:27 pm
Quote from: Khesretitui
...I dislike seeing my faith misrepresented.

I only ask that what I typed in response to this thread be seen as my own experience; in this, I misrepresent nothing.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on August 16, 2009, 10:42:22 pm
According to the rites of Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not a child of Set.  Within this context, which you are free to reject (and have), this is the case.  But I do find it difficult to believe that based on this that you were told that your relationship with Him was invalid.  No, within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not His daughter.  Within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you were named by another deity.  That is what it is.  And yes, when you took shemsu vows (which were never required), you were asked to honor the gods of your RPD first (but not only).  Like I can have a relationship with and honor Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox, but I cannot claim to be a daughter of Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox. If this didn't resonate, you were at no time obligated to accept these things.  You could not reject these things and be shemsu, but not everyone is called to be shemsu.  And this is totally fine.  It's also totally fine that you realized it didn't work for you and left the faith.  For you, it sounds like that was a good thing and the right decision.  So I just really don't get what all of this is about.  RPD and the rites and tenets of Kemetic Orthodoxy don't resonate with you.  You are not Kemetic Orthodox.  So it's all good, right?  
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on August 17, 2009, 01:33:18 pm
Quote from: Seta
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
Absolutely, and Hemet has said as such many times. Just because a God isn't in your RPD doesn't mean your relationship with them isn't as valid!

I was told (in so many words) that my relationship with Set was invalid.  Tamara, your Nisut, told me that because she didn't see Setian traits within me, she very well couldn't believe I was a child of Set.  Most of my spiritual doings had dealt with Set.  This was my own conscious doing, as well as something inside of my heart was awoken.  Set spoke with me, He named me, and I felt Him around me most of the time.  I was to let all of this go, despite everything.  It meant nothing.


If you were told to let it go and that it meant nothing, then I would stand 100% alongside you in calling that behaviour reprehensible. I do understand that KO's stances on things and their application of them have changed over time. All I can say is that right now, *that would not be the case*. You would be told that to become Shemsu you would have to admit Set did not create your ba (this is not to say he is not a 'father', see my mention of Bast wherever it was). That's only if you wanted to become Shemsu, though.

I'm with others when I express, these rules are only for KO people. If you're not KO, they don't apply to you. I don't really see what the problem is.


Quote
As well, during my time observing both as an insider and outsider to the membership of this group, it's repeatedly happened that cliques form dedicated to the different Netjeru.  There's a habit that because one 'is a child' of a god or goddess, that one would be in some way more qualified than anyone else to speak about his or her parent.  Once again, it was painfully enforced to me that even speaking about Set was unwelcome - even in private matters between myself and other members.


It can get cliqueish. I have heard that your experience of Set is often very different from some of his KO children, posting stuff like that will certainly get a lot of replies from the Set kids. And the fact that they get so much reinforcement (knowing their experiences are shared by other Set kids) can make people quite Certain when speaking to you one on one.

People do group up (I love me my jackal sibs!) but I've yet to see anyone exclude anybody. I'm really sorry you have felt this way :( And I'm really sorry if any members have been unduly harsh to you at any point. The Gods come across differently to all of us.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: VioletSkies on August 17, 2009, 02:03:48 pm
This whole latter part of the thread seems about as useful as debating whether or not Christ died for our sins. If you aren't a Christian, then I don't see why it matters so much... There is many a Christian Pastor / Priest out there who would readily tell any of us that we are going to Hell. Do we much care? No... because that person's opinion has no weight to someone outside of the Christian faith.

So I guess I don't know why this debate is even occurring... very confusing.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Huyitu on August 17, 2009, 02:22:53 pm
Quote from: Tahai

It all comes down to trust.  You trust Hemet.  You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods.  You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods.  You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.  If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.


Personally I disagree, one of the reasons why I went to have my RPD done in person was to evaluate Hemet, to see if she could be trusted, that the rituals were sound, and to see in what ways she was biased. Upon meeting and talking with her I was convinced she was intelligent and humble enough to lead and extremely knowledgeable. By watching her do the divination with a skeptical eye I could run the figures in my head and see that it wasn’t a false ritual. I didn’t trust those things but did the RPD any way and came out a believer, it was just what I needed. It was a very liberating experience for me.

Quote from: Inibmutes
Perhaps the best thing I can say about Parent Divination for us, is that it doesn't tell us who we worship - it tells us about *ourselves*, not Netjer.  So, in many ways, it's a window into what we are, that we don't often get.  It's not, however, an absolute commentary on what relationships we may (or may not) have with the Gods.  It can be the opening of a door that leads into conversation on a new journey, it can be an affirmation of what was suspected, and it always quite transformative even if you don't see or behold the results for some time.  

What Parent Divination does for us, is begin a line of critical thinking and working in our spiritual lives.  Even if you agree one-hundred percent and aren't surprised, the act of beginning that line of inquiry is transformative - regardless of whether you accept it or not, stay here or not, do something else or not.  You begin to approach and look at yourself for who you really are.  No small feat to begin, to say the least.

As with most tools, the end result of your work depends on what you make with what you've been given.  Ultimately, the choice is yours where it takes you or not, and what it does for you, or not.


I just wanted to quote you Inibmutes, because this is exactingly how I feel about RPD but much more eloquently than I ever could. Its perfect  
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on August 17, 2009, 03:29:09 pm
Quote from: Tahai
It all comes down to trust.  You trust Hemet.  You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods.  You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods.  You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.  If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.


I too disagree with this btw. Trusting Hemet or the divination are not prerequisites for having the RPD done. Like others I did not trust Hemet's divinations before she performed mine. I even did the oft frowned upon "If X isn't in it then I walk away" (with good reason, it seems. <3 Bast). The important thing is to go into it with an open mind.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on August 17, 2009, 04:55:34 pm
Em hotep, all.

I can't comprehend going through any life-changing ritual without trusting the person conducting that ritual.  

I had reservations prior to RPD, but had done a great deal of soul searching before asking Hemet (AUS) to perform it for me.  Of course I had doubts, I'm human and skeptical.  As a result, I backed out of my first appointment.  I did not request RPD again until I was as sure as I could possibly be that I trusted Tamara Siuda as Nisut, bearer of the kingly ka, Son of Netjer. Huy, I can understand your need to see the ritual performed and meet Reverend Siuda in person before making a final decision.  For you, that was an intentional part of developing trust.

I cannot conceive of a person undertaking any serious religious ritual without at least a majority of trust in the person they were asking to conduct it.  After all, if you don't trust the person performing the ritual, how on earth can you trust the results of the ritual?  

Even if a person chose to undergo RPD with a 'wait and see' philosophy, after RPD they would have to make a choice.  Either they trust the ritual was done correctly and was, indeed, a conduit for divine will or they don't, and they re-evaluate.  

Once again, I don't understand why any person would undergo a major ritual without trust.  I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that topic.  

Senebty,

Tahai
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on August 17, 2009, 05:04:14 pm
Quote from: Taji
According to the rites of Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not a child of Set.  Within this context, which you are free to reject (and have), this is the case.  But I do find it difficult to believe that based on this that you were told that your relationship with Him was invalid.  No, within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not His daughter.  Within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you were named by another deity.  That is what it is.  And yes, when you took shemsu vows (which were never required), you were asked to honor the gods of your RPD first (but not only).  Like I can have a relationship with and honor Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox, but I cannot claim to be a daughter of Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox. If this didn't resonate, you were at no time obligated to accept these things.  You could not reject these things and be shemsu, but not everyone is called to be shemsu.  And this is totally fine.  It's also totally fine that you realized it didn't work for you and left the faith.  For you, it sounds like that was a good thing and the right decision.  So I just really don't get what all of this is about.  RPD and the rites and tenets of Kemetic Orthodoxy don't resonate with you.  You are not Kemetic Orthodox.  So it's all good, right?  

You are correct, I am not Kemetic Orthodox any longer.  I realize that I spoke up regarding a hot subject for myself, and possibly others.

It's a valid question to ask, 'why is she/are you here?'  I must admit that question has many answers.  One of which is in truth that I don't want to see anyone else hurt.

In my opinion, it's not all good - but I have no place here to say what is and what is not beyond myself.  I stepped over that line; please allow me to restep backwards and chill.

Quote from: Taiawepwawet
I have heard that your experience of Set is often very different from some of his KO children, posting stuff like that will certainly get a lot of replies from the Set kids. And the fact that they get so much reinforcement (knowing their experiences are shared by other Set kids) can make people quite Certain when speaking to you one on one.

I appreciate your kindness Taia; but, you bring up a good point:  I don't recall talking with you, so how is it that you have come to hear about my experiences?  Unless I have misconstrued your meaning?

This is another hot button topic with me, all the talk.

In truth, my ideas and opinions do not matter here.  As I said above, I should just chill out right now.  It's true I have no control over anything beyond myself.  I need to keep reminding myself of this fact.

I just feel that the other side of this situation needs recognition; at least, as far as to say that the whole issue is one that needs a lot of personal reflection.  Going through the RPD is definitely a leap of trust, if not faith, and that is powerful, indeed.  (I learned the hard way.)

As for the differences in experiences with Set, some messages stated by others here are similar, though the method of transaction has been different.  Set is much harsher here.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seshagemseger on August 17, 2009, 06:19:12 pm
Em hotep!

I find it interesting that there are two very different perspectives on the question of trust.  Neither side is wrong, now that I think about it, even though they are coming at it from opposite sides.

As for me, I had spent a couple of years or more as an undivined remetj, yet had the opportunity to get to know the Nisut (AUS) in person.  At the time of my RPD, I trusted Her more than I trusted my own judgement -- and about many matters that is still the case.

(This despite the fact that my first "investigation" of the House was due to concern that a friend was getting involved with something scary... ;))
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sedjemes on August 17, 2009, 06:30:01 pm
Hotep Kai Imakhu Sesha,

I think there has to be an element of trust, in any religion with regard to rituals and rites of passage. It is not necessarily a question of trusting a person involved, although that kind of trust *can* be involved...

....a young man who is Jewish, undertaking Bar Mitzvah, trusts that this rite of passage means he is accepted now as a man;

...a young Catholic boy or girl, undertaking Confirmation, trusts that by this rite of passage they are seen as "mature" enough to understand the expectations of their lives as Catholics...

...and of course, in both of those cases, one trusts the rabbis, and the tradition of the Bar Mitzvah, one trusts the Pope, the Cardinals and bishops, the particular bishop officiating at the rite...otherwise, why would one do it?  

I might add that in my examples, since those undertaking the rites are generally minors under law, they also trust that their parents and families are guiding them into a good experience and situation. Later on they may make their own decisions, and that is all good.

Trust and faith can be the same, or at least similar, or at least run parallel paths. One should never ever join a religion or faith or take on a spiritual practice if one has not the slightest smidgen of trust, or faith, or both, that that religion, faith or practice will hold value, whether it be Buddhism, Islam, Shintoism, Asatru, Hellenism, Kemetic Orthodoxy, or name another.

From the moment one undertakes here the beginners course, one is encouraged to take one's time, make no decision lightly or quickly. The rest is up to one to do. Some take hours, some take years. It seems all good.

Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Aqheret on August 17, 2009, 07:05:01 pm
Em hotep Tahai and everyone! *henu*

*post disclaimer- post being written from theological point of view not as a Shemsu*

Quote
I can't comprehend going through any life-changing ritual without trusting the person conducting that ritual.


In the overall scheme of things trust isn't necessary to make any form of ritual, work.  I know that sounds very flippant but with the 1000's of babies each year, world wide, put through varying forms of rite of passage be it baptism, circumcision etc....for them trust doesn't come into it. Also trust doesn't come into for their parents either.  In way too many cases these rites are done out of tradition or "because it was done to me I'm doing it to my child as well" and not of devotion. Conscience choice is something of a rarity in a lot of religious practice.  

I know that sounds a bit off but after 3 years of undergrad theology its more often a case that people don't think, don't choose for themselves and use blind trust and end up deceiving themselves or put themselves in spiritual pickles because they are willing to be spoon fed gruel instead of stepping out of the box and doing the thinking and chewing for themselves.  

Quote
I cannot conceive of a person undertaking any serious religious ritual without at least a majority of trust in the person they were asking to conduct it. After all, if you don't trust the person performing the ritual, how on earth can you trust the results of the ritual?


Because the vessel doesn't count, its the power of the divine that does count.  Rites are not deemed invalid if a vessel is limited.  There has been enough coverage of child abusing priests around the world to show that vessel can be scum but despite that scum it does not invalidate the rituals they performed.

Its the power of the divine Beings in question that validates the ritual.  If trust comes in anywhere its at this point and its between you and the divine Being you believe in.  

*steps off theology soapbox*

In my own experience, I went to RPD having no foggy idea Who I belonged too and I came away stunned from the experience with no connection to Mum or my then Beloved Set.  As a matter of fact I didn't want Set as Beloved and was peeved that Djehuty wasn't there at that point.  I had some growing to do before I could cope with Him and Sekhmet came a while after that.

It wasn't until one of priests stepped in and helped me get a relationship with Mum did it start to feel real and its been a process ever since.  Its only in the last 12 months that I can say that yes I am sure of my RPD line up and my place in the faith.

For me the vessel aka Hemet didn't really have all that much to do with the process.  The process itself is internal.  
The core aim of any form of ritual is to make the person look inwards and bring about a change in the person.  The vessels can be cracked totally up what counts is what the divine does, not what the vessels do.

Senebty
Aqheret  

 
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on August 17, 2009, 07:57:20 pm
Quote from: Seta

I just feel that the other side of this situation needs recognition; at least, as far as to say that the whole issue is one that needs a lot of personal reflection.  Going through the RPD is definitely a leap of trust, if not faith, and that is powerful, indeed.  (I learned the hard way.)


I don't think anyone here is arguing the point that RPD is a huge step that requires a lot of serious personal reflection before it is undertaken.  We can debate the meaning of trust and what it means and whether it's necessary or not, but still I think everyone would agree on the point, however they define these things, that RPD is a big step.  There are people who are guests here for years before they take the beginners class.  Who are then remetj for years before being divined.  And then who are divined remetj for years before becoming shemsu.  This amount of deliberation is both respected and encouraged, though not required.  

So I guess I still don't understand where you're coming from.  Granted I was not here when you were a shemsu, so I cannot speak to how things were then.  In my own experience though, the priesthood of KO and the Nisut Herself were always the first to urge patience and being sure that one is ready before taking the step of RPD.  They rightly say that this is a life-changing ritual, one that there is no going back from (just in terms of that once you have the knowledge, you can't erase knowing it even if shemsuhood is not chosen.)

I'm really sorry that you weren't ready for RPD and feel that the process hurt you.  But it was something that you made the choice to do yourself.  So unless I am missing something, I don't understand the anger directed toward the HoN and the Nisut.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on August 17, 2009, 08:55:08 pm
Quote from: Taji
I'm really sorry that you weren't ready for RPD and feel that the process hurt you.  But it was something that you made the choice to do yourself.  So unless I am missing something, I don't understand the anger directed toward the HoN and the Nisut.

Taji, I welcome your kind words, but you have nothing to be sorry for. :) As far as I know, you had nothing to do with the issues I speak/write/type of.

I am aware of some reasons why I still come to the boards; at least two reasons are not very flattering.  There is also the reason that I realize that Tamara knows some stuff, and she does deserve a heck of a lot of credit because she's got the best thing going when it comes to an organized group dedicated to the Ancient Egyptian gods.  In that, I do come to learn.  Undoubtably, there are some reasons that I myself have yet to really come to terms with.

The anger towards the House held by me is in how I was treated by some within the higher levels of membership, as well as some goings-on that I saw both as a member and outside of membership.  I am saying this to explain; and, I recall my words of needing to step back and chill out.  No one person or group is perfect, but I do strongly feel that what I experienced was a conscious effort on the part of the participants.  It's not just one or two or three things; and, if things have truly changed to the point where those issues no longer go on, that's for the best.  I am honest when I say I do not care to see anyone hurt as I was.

To make a long story short, the goddess (Sekhmet-HetHert) I was claimed to be created by had never made much of an impact in my life, though the god (Set) I claimed (and who seemed to make clear He claimed me) made tremendous marks - for good and for ill, in my opinion.  There are some issues that I feel are related to Him that I still do not understand; yet, still, I felt very attached to Set.  

I can misconstrue things as much as the next person, but to have all of that - the confusion, the love, the experiences - and then be told, that he wants nothing to do with me, he needs nothing from me, and that everything I've gone through was basically a lie...  That was wrong.  No one has the right to tell anyone else that their personal experiences are invalid, as 'different' or 'unusual' to the 'norm' they may be.  I could understand if a person was in a life or death situation, but that's different, again in my opinion.

So that's me, to answer at least one question.

Plus the talk.  There was (and from what I have heard, is) a lot of talk behind peoples' back.  No one really likes it when this happens to them, but I believe in speaking up about it.  I'm not so brave (or brazen) all the time.  For this matter, I'm quite open and I do my best to be completely honest about my side of the situations (dealing with my time in the House of Netjer) regarding my own words, conduct, beliefs.

True, it's human nature to be 'clique-ish', but it's also human ability to rise above such.  I wish more people would play detective instead of believing that which comes easiest.  When I come here, now - many years after - I try to be courteous and state only that I feel the RPD is a very serious situation, grave almost.  Do not tred lightly.  While there may be deep feelings there, I really do try to keep my interjections to the point.  I wish that I had this in my own head and heart at the time, instead of trying to be acceptable to others (my pressures went beyond some of the House members).

Granted, I'll admit with some shame and guilt that I probably have stretched the tolerance of 'guest' status to some.  Again, hence, reason why I am doing what I can to watch my step.  I appreciate everyone who reads my words, at least trying to understand.  I guess a long story short didn't really happen.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on August 18, 2009, 08:07:06 am
Quote from: Tahai
I can't comprehend going through any life-changing ritual without trusting the person conducting that ritual.  


I agree strongly with Aqheret, in that it's about the ritual, not the person performing it. I don't have to trust Hemet to trust the Gods working through her and what they're showing her.

That said, I did not entirely trust the process either. Why? Because I hadn't gone through it. I have never and will never be one for 'blind faith'. without having gone through it I only had other people's word for its effectiveness, and that was nice but it meant nothing to me. It was only me, my experiences, my soul, and my results, that could show to me whether or not the rite had the ability to be effective.

Again, trust is not required for the RPD. Only an open mind. Which I had.


Quote from: Seta
I appreciate your kindness Taia; but, you bring up a good point:  I don't recall talking with you, so how is it that you have come to hear about my experiences?  Unless I have misconstrued your meaning?

This is another hot button topic with me, all the talk.


I have a rly rly bad memory, so forgive upcoming vagueness. I think it came up at retreat. "It" being this thread, not you. And there was no gossip that I recall, just a very brief "Why is that thread so boom?" and at some point someone mentioning "Their experiences of Set are really different to a lot of people here so they've had some bad times when they were Shemsu". A bad Saq experience was mentioned.

It was solely about this thread, and a passing explanation of why it was going the way it had. If it had turned to snarking or [censored] or gossip I would probably have smacked someone because it's not really fair =/

I am totally not dismissing your complaints about the Talk btw. Basically my sole bad experience at retreat was due to Talk. I have pretty much dismissed it as being because most everyone else there was American and they have different cultural rules regarding what is and isn't ok to talk about with people who weren't originally present, but at the time it was *extremely* hurtful and had me choking back tears.

So, yeah. It does happen and I really do sympathise. I'm really sorry you were the victim of it, and I hope we didn't make you feel bad with our discussion of this thread at retreat =/


Quote
To make a long story short, the goddess (Sekhmet-HetHert) I was claimed to be created by had never made much of an impact in my life, though the god (Set) I claimed (and who seemed to make clear He claimed me) made tremendous marks - for good and for ill, in my opinion. There are some issues that I feel are related to Him that I still do not understand; yet, still, I felt very attached to Set.


I will say to this, I had no experience with Wepwawet before my RPD. He left some breadcrumbs as he tends to do in the weeks before, but many Gods don't do that. The Goddess who my heart belonged to, who had been my mother since I was a child, was revealed to be a Beloved. But remember, she was Bast.

Notice a trend of people disappointed Gods didn't show up who turn out not to have been there because they needed to accustom to their initial line up first. If your line up did not include Set it is likely a later divination would have added him. But that the initial one was saying "If you have Set now, you won't get to know these Gods, His power and your love for Him will overwhelm their presence." It seems to happen a lot in divinations.

Also, notice the trend of people who feel the Gods that made them *don't* have much of an impact in their lives. Like they made them and then sit back, and it is the Beloveds who mould their ka as they live.

(I am not trying to convert you to the RPD, not remotely, merely trying to show you that... other people have experienced your frustrations. That you are not alone in them.)


Quote
I can misconstrue things as much as the next person, but to have all of that - the confusion, the love, the experiences - and then be told, that he wants nothing to do with me, he needs nothing from me, and that everything I've gone through was basically a lie... That was wrong.


If that happened then it was indeed completely and utterly wrong.

The Gods 'need' nothing from us that is true (they are deities after all), but if a person told you the above then that was utterly uncalled for. My experience of Heru-Wer is different to what some others get, different even to what is shown in Saq, but it is still valid.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on August 18, 2009, 08:39:47 am
Quote from: Tai'a
I have pretty much dismissed it as being because most everyone else there was American and they have different cultural rules regarding what is and isn't ok to talk about with people who weren't originally present, but at the time it was *extremely* hurtful and had me choking back tears.


I am really sorry to learn that you had this experience. It isn't ok in America either.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Raheri on August 18, 2009, 12:06:32 pm
Hotep Seta (henu),

I would ask that that while you are a guest in our temple if you could refer to our Nisut as Rev. Tamara or Rev. Siuda, and not just by her first name. It is a title she has earned and deserves. Thank you.

Senebty,
Raheri
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on August 18, 2009, 03:40:07 pm
Quote from: Raheri
Hotep Seta (henu),

I would ask that that while you are a guest in our temple if you could refer to our Nisut as Rev. Tamara or Rev. Siuda, and not just by her first name. It is a title she has earned and deserves. Thank you.

Senebty,
Raheri

For the fact that my wish to be called Seta is honored, I will do this.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on August 19, 2009, 04:54:32 pm
some people have expression confusion over why this debate is occurring.  i for one would like to say that i am quite intrigued, fascinated, and pleased that it is occurring.  it's excellent reading for anyone contemplating what their place in this faith is or should be.  :)  
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on August 19, 2009, 04:58:21 pm
Quote from: Herupaneb
Quote
it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it? She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?
 


Yes. Rev. Siuda created the concept of Parents and Beloveds as something that is divined for, under the guidance of Sekhmet. She created the Rite of Parent Divination as the medium to do this, and she is the only person who does it.




can someone please explain fedw divination to me, then?  what if someone is told in a fedw divination that a particular Name is their Parent?  where does that information come from?
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sedjemes on August 19, 2009, 05:05:57 pm
Hotep Kathleen

Fedw divination is a system taught by the Nisut AUS in person to Shemsu at Wep Ronpet. She is the only one currently teaching that system to members of the House. It cannot be taught online.

Fedw is not used to perform the Rite of Parent Divination. Currently the Nisut uses a system with cowrie shells according to some years of experience and some fairly coherent notes regarding the specific throws.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahotep on August 19, 2009, 05:06:42 pm
Quote from: kathleen

can someone please explain fedw divination to me, then?  what if someone is told in a fedw divination that a particular Name is their Parent?  where does that information come from?


Fedw diviners have rules about what sorts of questions they are/are not allowed to answer.  For example, medical advice and RPD-type stuff.

I know before I went through RPD I had a VERY strong experience with Hethert, but I knew my diviner in question couldn't tell me if She was my mother or not.  I managed though, to find out that Hethert wanted me to sing for Her, and seemingly as a temple chantress, which I'm working on currently :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on August 19, 2009, 05:30:55 pm
Quote from: Tahotep


Fedw diviners have rules about what sorts of questions they are/are not allowed to answer.  For example, medical advice and RPD-type stuff.





question a:  so this doesn't happen?

question b:  if they are not *allowed* to answer, it implies they have an answer to give or withhold.  could they?  or is it considered to be impossible for them to know?
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sedjemes on August 19, 2009, 05:38:51 pm
Hotep Kathleen.

Not being allowed for our purposes of being Fedw diviners mean we simply do not agree to divine. One can approach a diviner and ask them if they will divine via the Fedw for such and such a purpose, and the Fedw diviner simply replies "sorry I cannot divine for that." Whether or not an answer could be derived via the Fedw does not even enter the equation.

I am not one of our more accomplished readers or diviners--we have many members who use Tarot and Fedw and runes and other means---but I would not divine to provide medical advice in general using any tool. Just as an aromatherapist I am careful about sounding like I am offering medical advice.

And none of us could divine for the RPD. We *could* try it I suppose--we can try anything. But since within our practice there is a heka and a specific purpose to the RPD that requires the Nisut's doing it, there would be no point to anyone else divining for it.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Khesretitui on August 19, 2009, 05:42:49 pm
I believe it means that they won't ask the question. I haven't been trained as Fedw yet, but I have had some throws done for me, and certain topics are always off the table from the beginning.

I've encountered, for instance, the fact that Set seems to dislike leading questions. He won't even begin to consent to answer them from what I was told. He's also apparently stubborn about questions you already know the answer to. He has responded to someone throwing Fedw for me before, though, and very strongly. This was a clear, yes/no question that I was not emotionally wrapped up in.

Others who can actually throw the Fedw will have more to tell you if they can.

It seems like asking RPD questions would be poor form and would indicate a lack of trust, since you would be potentially "going around" the system.

ETA: Check it out! By the time I got my thoughts sorted I ended up repeating what someone else said. KI Sedjemes must type faster than light! ;)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on August 19, 2009, 06:02:28 pm
Tbh, I think fedw is not a case of "could but won't". It's a case of "won't and couldn't". I don't reckon the Gods would co-operate with the questions.

So if you try to do parent divinations, you'll probably get gibberish, or a gentle slap from the deity in question.

(ofc, for some reason it's still stuck in my brain like "Don't press the shiny red button" so some day you may hear a startled yelp and me running away from Wepwawet's smitestick >.>)(Edit: And suddenly my icon shows its appropriateness :grin: OOO WHAT'S THIS)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: NiankhSekhmet on August 19, 2009, 06:20:57 pm
Em hotep!

Quote
Tbh, I think fedw is not a case of "could but won't". It's a case of "won't and couldn't". I don't reckon the Gods would co-operate with the questions.


In the case of Parent Divination, as has been said in the thread earlier, Within the House of Netjer except Hemet performs Parent Divination. This may not always be the case. However, I would like to point out that this is something that is not just a simple divination such as Fedw. Neither thing works that way, really. There are offerings that have to be made in specifics for each Parent Divination.

As for knowing how to use the Fedw and not doing so, for me you are right. I won't read the Fedw simply because as a Divinatory tool, I do not prefer it, preferring the Tarot because of my years of experience with it. As a Querent, wouldn't you much rather get a Divination from someone who connects with that particular form of Divination? If I do get someone who asks me for a Fedw Divination, I will always refer them to someone else who has connected with that Divinatory tool. So just refusing and then not referring is not a very kind thing to do to someone. They got up the courage to ask for a Divination. The least the Diviner could do is refer them to someone else.

And if someone does ask for a Parent Divination, I refer them to the Beginner's Class and then to Hemet for that when and if they choose that. ;)

Senebty!
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seshagemseger on August 19, 2009, 07:32:56 pm
Em hotep!

Even just mathematically, using any sort of yes/no divination system to attempt to figure out a person's Parent(s) and/or Beloved(s) would be very awkward.  There are a LOT of Names of Netjer, and just because many of them have not yet come up in anyone's RPD doesn't mean they won't someday.

Fedw is a method where a Shemsu asks their Parent (just one of them if dual-Parented) a question -- and that Parent has a few ways of declining to answer.  Many Names are disinclined to answer certain types of questions, and in some cases, ANY question.  It's common to be denied answers to things that can be determined another way.  Certainly any attempt to ask a question that breaches the Fedw diviner's contract would not work out very well.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on August 19, 2009, 10:46:13 pm
Quote from: kathleen
Quote from: Tahotep


Fedw diviners have rules about what sorts of questions they are/are not allowed to answer.  For example, medical advice and RPD-type stuff.





question a:  so this doesn't happen?

question b:  if they are not *allowed* to answer, it implies they have an answer to give or withhold.  could they?  or is it considered to be impossible for them to know?  


Hotep ::henu::

Because of the way Fedw works, it would be impossible to do an RPD properly using Fedw. The cabability for that kind of revelation just isn't built into it. The most you could accomplish would be some level of yes/no but if there were Gods you didn't think to ask about, the opportunity for Them to make Their presence known wouldn't be there other than to say, "Stop, this divination is wrong".

When you learn Fedw, you agree not to attempt to answer questions of this kind, but really once you've learned it, the only logical answer to a querent who asks for RPD info through Fedw is: "Fedw doesn't do that."
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on August 20, 2009, 08:44:05 pm
thank you to everyone for your input.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Mehetibeminpu on August 22, 2009, 03:50:48 pm
Em hotep,

I'd also like to add that it has been my experience with fedw that if asked a question it doesn't want to answer (especially if you think you're going to outsmart it by asking the same question in a different way --  seriously don't try this at home  lol)  your Parent can and will stop the divination by giving you a certain type of answer that requires a cleansing of the fedw tools that takes at least 4 days.  The Netjeru seriously will keep you to your contract as a diviner, so there's just no point in trying to get around and ask things that you shouldn't.

Senebty!
Mehet
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: TheDisreputableDog on August 22, 2009, 06:07:04 pm
That is absolutely fascinating, Mehet. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Mehetibeminpu on August 23, 2009, 12:53:56 am
Hotep, Dog.  :)

Yeah, it is fascinating.  And a bit disconcerting as well.  But then, in my experience Netjer will always protect us, even from ourselves.  :D

puppy hug,
M
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: alpen on August 25, 2009, 09:58:53 am
Quote from: Mehetibeminpu
Em hotep,

I'd also like to add that it has been my experience with fedw that if asked a question it doesn't want to answer (especially if you think you're going to outsmart it by asking the same question in a different way --  seriously don't try this at home  lol)  your Parent can and will stop the divination by giving you a certain type of answer that requires a cleansing of the fedw tools that takes at least 4 days.  The Netjeru seriously will keep you to your contract as a diviner, so there's just no point in trying to get around and ask things that you shouldn't.

Senebty!
Mehet


Em Hotep Mehet
Quote from: Mehetibeminpu
Hotep, Dog.  :)

Yeah, it is fascinating.  And a bit disconcerting as well.  But then, in my experience Netjer will always protect us, even from ourselves.  :D

puppy hug,
M


Hotep Mehet and Dog,
I just wanted to add my tiny 2 cents worth here as a new guest.  I feel the same as you posted above, Netjer will always protect us even from ourselves.  I am amazed at how patient and careful they are being with me, helping me to grow and expand my awareness of them.  This was unexpected by me as I expected as a beginner to be buffeted and be knocked about spiritually speaking and haven't been.  Now I want to go study what I can of fedw-the questions always come faster than the answers!

Alpen
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Mehetibeminpu on August 25, 2009, 04:41:51 pm
Em hotep Alpen!

Sounds like you're having good experiences, though.  Netjer loves us a lot, and will give us what we need.  They don't want to hurt us, so I'm sure they are careful to give us what we need.  

I think you'll find that the questions will never cease, but that is a strength inour community: there is generally someone who can help you with the answers.

Senebty!
Mehet
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on August 29, 2009, 08:58:14 pm
i just wanted to say that i hope that none of my posted questions on this thread have been seen as offensive or hostile.  that has certainly not been my intention.  i have been doing some intensive soul-searching in the past month or two as to whether or not to have RPD done, and have basically concluded that i am not ready at this time and may not ever be, but i do still cherish my status as Remetj and will still be here even if i do not post much for a while.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Khesretitui on August 29, 2009, 09:03:19 pm
I don't think you've been offensive, and I think that it's great that you can be honest with yourself. :) Asking questions and doing the soul-searching is the only way to be sure in your life, so I think that if you feel you're on track, then you are.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on September 01, 2009, 02:26:58 pm
thank you, Khesretitui.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Senusenu on November 01, 2009, 03:06:01 pm
It took me a few months before I requested to have my RPD done.

I had a lot of the same thoughts. What if the Gods I felt closest to weren't there? What if my Parent was a Name I've never heard of, or worse, a Name that for whatever reason I was not fond of? What if my Parents turned out to be Names that I felt nothing for, that I couldn't identify with in the least?

For me, the results of my RPD meant the difference between accepting Hemet (AUS) as my teacher and becoming Shemsu, or rejecting KO altogether.  It was a matter of whether or not my RPD reconfirmed what I already felt internally- and if it didn't, then it wasn't going to be the right place for me.

When my RPD came around, I was incredibly nervous. But Hemet (AUS) was quick, and the results were rather astounding for me.

As I was waiting, I had a visual image grow into my mind. I saw myself sitting in the grass at night with a bright full moon above me, a jackal at one side and a Set animal at the other. I even briefly said to myself "I wonder if there's a cat there, too?"

And then she came back. I was a child of Wepwawet and Set, beloved of Khonsu, Heru-ur, and Bast.  I didn't "see" the hawk, but I knew He was a given for any child of Set.

And then I had my Akhu reading. It was very good, and the one "warning" they gave me was thus- "Within yourself there's a struggle between two things - They say to work on making two things one. ... There's a whole subcurrent of two things that pull each other apart."  At the time, Hemet (AUS) did not know that I was trans, and that I have had a struggle for a very long time in figuring out exactly who I am and my place in everything.

So, of course with this information, I immediately decided to join. I have been a bad Shemsu, though :) but it is another struggle to work on.

In the end, it is truly up to you and what resonates within you.

Senebty
Senu
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on November 06, 2009, 06:49:36 pm
Quote from: Senusenu

For me, the results of my RPD meant the difference between accepting Hemet (AUS) as my teacher and becoming Shemsu, or rejecting KO altogether.  It was a matter of whether or not my RPD reconfirmed what I already felt internally- and if it didn't, then it wasn't going to be the right place for me.




yes, this is exactly how i felt, too.  and i got angsty and nervous about it for a while, but then i realized that it didn't have to be that way.  i've basically decided that it's not necessary to go there, at least not at this point in my journey.  i like being a "friend of the faith" while i walk my own path.   :)  
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Nehet on November 14, 2009, 11:30:48 am
Quote from: kathleen
yes, this is exactly how i felt, too.  and i got angsty and nervous about it for a while, but then i realized that it didn't have to be that way.  i've basically decided that it's not necessary to go there, at least not at this point in my journey.  i like being a "friend of the faith" while i walk my own path.   :)  


Em Hotep, everyone :)

This is basically where I stand as well.  I have heard people say "well, you can get the divination done, and if you don't agree with it, you don't have to accept the results!"

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.  I don't like the idea of going into a ceremony like that and saying that I'll disregard the results if I don't like them.  The forms of divination that I am familiar with are completely different, and I hate to make a trite analogy, but I think it fits in this case:  I don't get a tarot reading and then throw the cards across the room if I don't like what they're telling me.  If I'm not ready to get a reading that tells me something that I'm not comfortable with, then I shouldn't be getting a reading.

So, for me to go into divination and say "okay, I'll get divined, but I'll only believe in it if Wesir shows up."  Well, that seems like sort of a bait and switch to the Gods.  If I already know, there is no point in getting divined. If I am going to disbelieve the results if I don't agree with them, how can I really say that I believe the results if I do agree with them?  Either I believe in divination or I don't.  

Right now I believe in what my heart tells me.  I believe I am going in the right direction.  

I haven't been a very good Remetj.  Well, I know that being a Remetj doesn't come with any obligations to HoN, but I have started to miss the place.  I had to do some soul-searching, but I'd like to come back and hang out :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Senushemi on November 14, 2009, 12:23:44 pm
Quote from: Nehet
I had to do some soul-searching, but I'd like to come back and hang out :)


Welcome back Nehet.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tuwer on November 14, 2009, 12:33:10 pm
Quote from: Nehet
I haven't been a very good Remetj.  Well, I know that being a Remetj doesn't come with any obligations to HoN, but I have started to miss the place.  I had to do some soul-searching, but I'd like to come back and hang out :)

Welcome back Nehet. :)

And from a purely personal point of view (all my opinion, nothing official from the House of Netjer), I think you're doing a darn good job of being a Remetj. You know what you want, you know what's feeling right, and that is what matters for Remetj. It doesn't matter if you get a divination (for anything: the RPD or otherwise) done... so long as you follow your heart, you're being a good Remetj.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: weshebutAmunRa on November 14, 2009, 01:28:49 pm
Quote from: Tuwer
so long as you follow your heart, you're being a good Remetj.


This.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on November 14, 2009, 03:05:14 pm
Hotep Nehet,

I agree with you whole-heartedly about divination.  I'm happy you were able to put these sentiments into words, as I was not.

Blessings, and welcome back.

Tahai.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on November 14, 2009, 07:10:13 pm
Quote from: weshebutAmunRa
Quote from: Tuwer
so long as you follow your heart, you're being a good Remetj.


This.





:)   :D
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on December 05, 2009, 09:20:25 pm
I... have to admit, I know the feeling of being in the want to come back and hang out.  My issues - as well known to some, others not - are not with the majority of the membership; still, I cannot come back, and it would not be proper if I do, knowing how feelings and memories ebb and flow within me.  Right now, I am in a peaceful place, so I can approach things in a calmer state.

Well, with current happenings in another thread, I think I'm in a lesson to learn more about something here that's troubled me for a long time.  People who have followed this thread will know of it, so I will not digress the point.  I have always been a stubborn sort, sometimes choosing things depending on the manner in which the facts are presented to me.  While this example holds nothing that pertains to this group, I've had people resort to physical means to have me go their way, to no avail.  I refuse to follow force when what is being presented has no bearing on lives and an immediate bearing at that.  In fact, such treatment has only caused me to remain steadfast in my place, despite any lessons postponed or lost and consequences that I would gain.

Saying this, I need to clarify that when it came to my RPD, it's not that I hadn't know what the outcome was.  In fact, at least two people, Rev. Siuda being one, at unrelated times, claimed my soul had a divine mother, and She be Sekhmet-HetHert.  I honestly wanted my mother there in my RPD.  I prayed and begged Her to be there.  Once it was stated officially for the House of Netjer, I heard a sarcastic female voice in my head say "Are you happy now?"  Of course, perhaps Her sarcasm was due to the fact that my attentions and my desire to learn was drawn towards Set, who I know has always been a guardian in my life.

My beloved, whom has also been described as my Father, is Amun-Ra.  This is interesting for I always felt a grandfatherly feeling towards Ra before I even knew of the House of Netjer, and Amun afterwards, when in my dreams, has always been fatherly.  As well this is interesting because as I (slowly) progress in my study, I learn there is connection between Set and Amun.  While I'm not sure if the Ancient Egyptian texts mention the exact connection, I feel Amun is an older form of Set - more mature, and wiser.  Basically, Set: grown up.  Perhaps a few gods associated with Set grown up.

I felt to describe this while I was feeling more content and open-minded.  I do realize I was on a war-path earlier in the thread; and, for better or for worse, I cannot say that my feelings have changed when it comes to my experiences.  I am willing to accept right now that my own attitude, persistence and rebelliousness caused at least a few of the initial issues.  Problem was, they snowballed into something monstrous, and I feel deeply not right - as previously explained.  I am sorry to those who witnessed my anger, because again - for the most part, the members of the House are decent people.  For those who I had issues with in the past - it is over, but I do not feel I should accept responsibility for what transpired towards me from others.

Anyhow...  I saw this thread had a boost, so I wished to take this opportunity to present a better side to myself and my own issues regarding the RPD.  As well, I can empathize as well as sympathize with Nehet's feelings of being drawn back to the House.  Just to summarize, while I cannot fully call my own RPD experience negative (or false), I do not agree with it's performance - though that is not in my hands; as well, I think it's highly unwise for anyone - endowed with the 'Kingly Ka' or not - to be so sure of one's self that the results be considered unquestionable.

Again, this is the soul we're talking about - not exactly the mortal frame.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Senusenu on December 07, 2009, 01:50:21 am
There's something about this that just sits wrong with me, but I can't exactly pinpoint it.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on December 07, 2009, 06:17:14 pm
Quote from: Senusenu
There's something about this that just sits wrong with me, but I can't exactly pinpoint it.

What?  Please describe or pinpoint what 'sits wrong' with you?
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Senusenu on December 09, 2009, 08:02:57 am
Quote from: Seta
Just to summarize, while I cannot fully call my own RPD experience negative (or false), I do not agree with it's performance - though that is not in my hands; as well, I think it's highly unwise for anyone - endowed with the 'Kingly Ka' or not - to be so sure of one's self that the results be considered unquestionable.


The results can be questioned. When we request the RPD, there is no obligation to accept the results. What Hemet (AUS) divines, we can reject and step away from the House.

I hate to be one to talk about faith- what could potentially be called blind faith- in this instance, but when we are asked if we accept our RPD, there are a lot more implications than just the words on the screen.

We are asked if we accept Hemet (AUS) as our teacher, and if we accept the ritual itself as imparted to the Nisut. The ritual was given to us by Netjer itself- will we accept that this is true, take a leap of faith? We are not taking this as Hemet (AUS) "telling" us who our parents are- we are accepting that she has been instructed by the same One that we choose to worship, and that she is told how the ritual will be performed.

It is my understanding that the RPD does not involve interpretation at all, that there is instead an exact meaning of each throw, the way each shell lands, and all of it taken together to produce an answer. She does not look at the results and "decide" what it means. There is a set meaning, and each throw that lands that way will always share that same meaning.

You make it sound as though she is arbitrarily picking and choosing for us.

Is she infallible? No one is. But our acceptance of the results is also acceptance that she has been instructed, acceptance that what she has been told by Netjer is what is right and appropriate for us as followers of the House of Netjer. If we reject these results, we also reject that she was instructed by the gods we worship.

I do not consider myself a blind follower. I am and will always be a skeptic. I am and will likely also always remain agnostic. Do I KNOW that Netjer is up there? No, I don't. Not on a fundamental level in the way that I know that a ball rolls down hill, or that I know the sun rises, or that I know the moon cycles from full moon to new moon and back again. I can't pick up Netjer and hold it in my hands, I can't put it into a box and tote it around, I can't show it to another person and say "This is the One."

But I still accepted the results of my RPD and chose to become Shemsu and become named. Why? Why did I do this when I still doubt? Why did I do this when I am still skeptical of it all?

My choice came because I felt, in my own heart, that I was in fact lead here, and my own personal experiences, my own UPG aligned with the words that were spoken(written) when my RPD was performed. I do not believe that Hemet (AUS) is infallible. What I DO believe is that the results she gave me were profound in a way that no other spiritual experience has ever been for me. What I saw, felt, and experienced were nearly mirrored back to me in the results of my RPD. If I can take a leap of faith that there is ANY god out there that cares that I exist, then I can take the leap of faith that those same gods- in this case Netjer itself, and the Names that present Themselves to us- instructed her so that the results would remain true and unbiased.

My RPD was a profound and moving experience. She said things to me that she could not have known. She said things to me that struck such a chord personally that I don't believe that she would have come up with them herself, out of the blue, without the hand of Netjer guiding her.

That is why I accepted my RPD, became Shemsu, and got my name. And that is why it does make me bristle when it seems that others either do not understand the process of the RPD, or seem to misconstrue it despite the testimony of other members. I don't think that anyone should do something that they are not comfortable with, and I don't think they should accept the RPD if they truly don't feel it is right, and I don't think they should just accept every word that Hemet (AUS) speaks. We're all human, we all make mistakes, so it is up to each individual person to decide for themselves what level of faith they are willing to give to this.

Obviously, you have had issues here. I have also seen your posts where it appears, to me, that you have misunderstood the process of the RPD. I see a lot of "Hemet TELLS us who our parents are" or "Hemet tells us we can ONLY worship our parents." No, neither of those are true, and seeing it come up again and again, no matter how many others say it's incorrect, does tend to aggravate after a while.

I am new here, and I don't know you very well. I see your passion for Set- I share it, even if my experiences with Him are different from yours, that's the nature of Them. What I also see is someone who was hurt, but who chooses to remain to speak with us, either to gain knowledge, or to share it, or both. The constant questioning of methods is NOT wrong in the least, however, the questioning of what appears to be misunderstood methods, despite so many members saying over and over that that was NOT what they experienced, does start to rub the wrong way after a while.

You're entitled to your opinions, and your questions. But continually saying "this is such" when everyone else is saying "but this isn't such," well, it makes me wonder if you are actually looking for understanding, or if you simply just want to argue for argument's sake.

I apologize if this comes off aggressive. I don't mean it to, but this has been festering inside me for a while, I just couldn't ever find the words for it.

Senebty
Senu
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on December 09, 2009, 12:36:15 pm
Quote from: Senusenu
My choice came because I felt, in my own heart, that I was in fact lead here, and my own personal experiences, my own UPG aligned with the words that were spoken(written) when my RPD was performed. I do not believe that Hemet (AUS) is infallible. What I DO believe is that the results she gave me were profound in a way that no other spiritual experience has ever been for me. What I saw, felt, and experienced were nearly mirrored back to me in the results of my RPD. If I can take a leap of faith that there is ANY god out there that cares that I exist, then I can take the leap of faith that those same gods- in this case Netjer itself, and the Names that present Themselves to us- instructed her so that the results would remain true and unbiased.

My RPD was a profound and moving experience. She said things to me that she could not have known. She said things to me that struck such a chord personally that I don't believe that she would have come up with them herself, out of the blue, without the hand of Netjer guiding her.

That is why I accepted my RPD, became Shemsu, and got my name. And that is why it does make me bristle when it seems that others either do not understand the process of the RPD, or seem to misconstrue it despite the testimony of other members. I don't think that anyone should do something that they are not comfortable with, and I don't think they should accept the RPD if they truly don't feel it is right, and I don't think they should just accept every word that Hemet (AUS) speaks. We're all human, we all make mistakes, so it is up to each individual person to decide for themselves what level of faith they are willing to give to this.

Obviously, you have had issues here. I have also seen your posts where it appears, to me, that you have misunderstood the process of the RPD. I see a lot of "Hemet TELLS us who our parents are" or "Hemet tells us we can ONLY worship our parents." No, neither of those are true, and seeing it come up again and again, no matter how many others say it's incorrect, does tend to aggravate after a while.

I am new here, and I don't know you very well. I see your passion for Set- I share it, even if my experiences with Him are different from yours, that's the nature of Them. What I also see is someone who was hurt, but who chooses to remain to speak with us, either to gain knowledge, or to share it, or both. The constant questioning of methods is NOT wrong in the least, however, the questioning of what appears to be misunderstood methods, despite so many members saying over and over that that was NOT what they experienced, does start to rub the wrong way after a while.

You're entitled to your opinions, and your questions. But continually saying "this is such" when everyone else is saying "but this isn't such," well, it makes me wonder if you are actually looking for understanding, or if you simply just want to argue for argument's sake.

I apologize if this comes off aggressive. I don't mean it to, but this has been festering inside me for a while, I just couldn't ever find the words for it.


I did misunderstand and was not in the right place when I was a member and undertook the RPD.  I will give everyone this; my thoughts were not on implications, maybe even the seriousness of the commitment.  I had, at the time, accepted Rev. Siuda as Leader, King, and Founder of the House of Netjer - I thought that was covered, at the time.  I agree also that my past posts were emotionally charged, and I must admit that sometimes it was to argue for the sake of argument.  On the whole, I have tried to stick to the rules here on the boards - not claiming I've been 100% successful.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 29, 2010, 09:48:40 am
Thanks Senusenu.

You've managed to sum up my own feelings about the House, The Nisut, and the RPD in one post.  I've had these feelings and thoughts for years and like yourself I was lead here.  I've been involved in most every religious practice or almost every faith at one time or another or researched it, trying to find God.  I've found something that I am comfortable with and that suits me just fine.  If I had joined the House when I first came around, i might be a Priest by now, but I may also no longer be a member.  The Divine can only lead us to water, they can't or won't MAKE us drink.  We have to stoop down , cup our hands and decide whether we will take that leap of faith and drink (hoping all the while that the water isn't poisoned) and become refreshed.  We must put our own self-doubts aside for a moment and think about all the things that lead us here.  For me it wasn't a big "WOW" moment where I had a great epiphany but rather a lot of little things rolled together.  It's the Jackal sitting in the room that says "Do you see me now or am I still just a figment of your imagination"?

Seta.

I like your posts they're very thought-provoking and you seem like a person who has been hurt in some way in the past and is trying desperately to come to terms with it.  If you weren't you wouldn't be here, nor would you be trying to explain things from your own point of view.  I think the greatest human tragedy is to be misunderstood and vilified by those we most care about and have them turn away from us.  History is full of such stories and yet people continue to not learn from them.  I myself have already made one enemy here (off-boards) and I feel terrible about it.  But I made a mistake and hope they can forgive me for it. As for myself, I try to do what I think is best for me because I really can't control what others say, think or do.  That was a big lesson for me to learn in my life.  I believe the group Alcoholics Anonymous refers to it as the "Serenity Prayer".
So even if you aren't well liked by a certain few, you are most definitely liked by others, especially me.  I see in you a kindred spirit who has also been wronged by others who was only trying to understand and who still may have some unresolved issues. Even though the answers have been given by others, you still have the need to speak of them, because what the head knows, the heart sometimes has trouble accepting. So be it.  I understand this completely. I drive my friends crazy with my constant prattle about topics they thought were settled.  It's settled in them, but not within myself.
I don't think the Niust is infallible.  She's a human, Kingly Ka or not.  The KK to me is like any other name in that it speaks to us and gives us direction, but doesn't MAKE us do this or that.  I may be wrong since I do not possess it.  Do I trust the Nisut?  Not completely.  I have never met her and without an in-person contact, I would have trouble getting a real feel for the person she says she is.  I do not mean it as an insult at all.  It's just common sense.  But, I will say this, others that I do trust, who in my opinion have great common sense, do in fact trust this person a great deal. So that is good enough for me for now until I have the chance to speak to her myself either in person or otherwise.  I do however respect her a great deal.  She has accomplished so much for someone as young.  She has dedicated her life, put aside all other interests to pursue the Will of Netjeru for the benefit of others.  I have GREAT admiration and respect for that for it is way beyond anything I hope to ever accomplish.
If you can't trust in the Nisut, trust in the Netjer who led you here.  The rest will come in time.  I don't worship the Nisut, i worship the Netjeru.  From conversations I have had with certain clergy, the Nisut doesn't want your worship either and doesn't see herself as infallible, that may be an assumption all your own and a holdover from your view of other spiritual leaders of different or related religious orders.
I don't know, only you do.
So think about it.  Do you trust the Netjeru?  If the answer is yes, then come back to the House because the netjeru led you here for a reason and I don't think it was to stand outside the window and simply look in.  The Netjeru want you in the House.  Take the leap.  You may find that all your misgivings were a false and there really is a a pure Oasis to drink from and not a mirage after all.

Senebty

Henu.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on January 29, 2010, 11:19:33 am
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
The Gods 'need' nothing from us that is true (they are deities after all  [/quote


Hmmm, I think I disagree with this statement.....

This thread is really really enlightening though. It's so interesting to hear the differences in opinions, the experiences, the thoughts.

Sad to hear about your experience though Seta. As someone has undergone a rite of passage, I can imagine how damaging to the psyche it would be to have something like that gone wrong.  :  (

In my opinion, there is no wasted experience. I've had some pretty [censored] things happen to me. I would not give back or change the [censored] experiences though, ever, for aything-anymore than I would watching my sons first steps, the blue sky or chocolate! All my life has been *neccesary* to making me who I am, even and sometimes *especially* the bad experiences. I am not always comfortable with who I am, or happy, but I am ME warts and all, and I accept that, and love myself despite my flaws, and those of others.

Try to smell the rose growing out of the manure pile, I guess is what I'm saying!

*steps off sappy encouragment soapbox*
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 29, 2010, 12:14:18 pm
I want to add something.

You really feel Set is in your life.  I have the same feeling that he is in mine.  However, what if He doesn't show up in the RPD?  Then what?  Will I step away from the House and go my own way?  No, definitely not.  I have had a conversation with Him about this already and here's what was said to me:

"Some are led to the House by Bast,Yinepu and many others but they do not show up in the RPD.  Have you ever thought why that is?  It's because the person had certain traits or problems that only that particular God/ess could deal with in the best manner possible. Perhaps they were self-doubters, perhaps pessimists and so on.  So a certain Netjer takes it upon him or herself to interact with said person until they are ready to have their Parents and or Beloveds revealed.  You must understand, this is not for our benefit, but for yours.  The principles of Ma'at bind even the Netjer to do what is BEST for the ones having the RPD done and not what those ones may necessarily want.  Having your Parents and Beloveds revealed is a teaching tool and also a test of your committment to the Netjer and the Kemetic Orthodoxy whom the Netjer speak through.  If you accept it, then more lessons are to follow by the ones who know you best. Have you even considered that when I work with you that I may have consulted your Parents and or Beloveds first or even went back to Them with questions or opinions as to how They thought things went with you?  You're making a big assumption that the only interaction going on here is between you and I.  That certainly isn't the case.  The same is true of everyone in Kemetic Orthodoxy.  We of the Netjeru communicate with one another all the time, we simply do not share that information with you or that we even do such a thing.  Being one of the Netjeru does not give one all the answers to where the others are ignored.  We are all part of the same Divine Spirit and as such we each have our specialties.  Right now you are being taught by me.  Think of it this way:  You go to school and are taught by a variety of teachers, you graduate and them move on to university, to be taught by other teachers who are more qualified than the latter and who build upon the foundation of what you have already learned.  Their teachings do not invalidate what you learned nor your own experiences, though it may seem so at times.  You simply do not have the entire picture and we do, but you must be spoon fed it slowly, less you choke on it or it becomes distasteful you and you look for food from others who do not know your tastes as well as your Parents and or Beloveds.  I may or may not show up on your RPD, but that not a cause for grief, but rather one for joy as it means you no longer need me.  It means you have progressed beyond what I can teach you and are ready for solid food young grasshopper.  No one could be more proud of that.  It also doesn't mean we won't interact in the future, it only means that it won't be as often.  Trust in the Netjer, trust in the Nisut. If she wasn't trustworthy we wouldn't speak through her"


A long conversation to be sure and I'm not sure if I should even post such a thing.  Being a Diviner in my own right and having given readings that weren't well received (although they proved to be true later on) I can say the Nisut is in an awkward position to give out such life changing information.  But someone has to.
I guess the only thing left to say is that it's everyone's choice whether they take the RPD or not.  Since you did and you didn't like the results, the problem really isn't with the Nisut or the House of Netjer, but with you.  You didn't get what you wanted and rather accept the growth that could come from it, you choose to ignore it and constantly questions it's validity.  Such is your choice, but I suspect eventually your relationship with Set will deteriorate to the point that he no longer speaks to you because you just won't listen to the One the Netjer have put this responsibility upon.  So be it.  There are other Houses who have similar opinions.  Go there if you must. Or stay here and accept what you were given and learn from it.  Who knows, Set may show up in a later divination.  Then how will you feel?

Senebty
Henu
*kiss on the cheek*

edited for grammatical errors (there might be some I missed)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Awetitu on January 29, 2010, 12:36:00 pm
There is something else to remember:
Hemet (AUS) did not choose this path, it was chosen for her.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tuwer on January 29, 2010, 02:53:44 pm
Hotep Kheper,
Quote from: Kheper
"Some are led to the House by Bast,Yinepu and many others but they do not show up in the RPD.  Have you ever thought why that is?  It's because the person had certain traits or problems that only that particular God/ess could deal with in the best manner possible. Perhaps they were self-doubters, perhaps pessimists and so on.  So a certain Netjer takes it upon him or herself to interact with said person until they are ready to have their Parents and or Beloveds revealed.  You must understand, this is not for our benefit, but for yours.  The principles of Ma'at bind even the Netjer to do what is BEST for the ones having the RPD done and not what those ones may necessarily want.  Having your Parents and Beloveds revealed is a teaching tool and also a test of your committment to the Netjer and the Kemetic Orthodoxy whom the Netjer speak through.  If you accept it, then more lessons are to follow by the ones who know you best. Have you even considered that when I work with you that I may have consulted your Parents and or Beloveds first or even went back to Them with questions or opinions as to how They thought things went with you?  You're making a big assumption that the only interaction going on here is between you and I.  That certainly isn't the case.  The same is true of everyone in Kemetic Orthodoxy.  We of the Netjeru communicate with one another all the time, we simply do not share that information with you or that we even do such a thing.  Being one of the Netjeru does not give one all the answers to where the others are ignored.  We are all part of the same Divine Spirit and as such we each have our specialties.  Right now you are being taught by me.  Think of it this way:  You go to school and are taught by a variety of teachers, you graduate and them move on to university, to be taught by other teachers who are more qualified than the latter and who build upon the foundation of what you have already learned.  Their teachings do not invalidate what you learned nor your own experiences, though it may seem so at times.  You simply do not have the entire picture and we do, but you must be spoon fed it slowly, less you choke on it or it becomes distasteful you and you look for food from others who do not know your tastes as well as your Parents and or Beloveds.  I may or may not show up on your RPD, but that not a cause for grief, but rather one for joy as it means you no longer need me.  It means you have progressed beyond what I can teach you and are ready for solid food young grasshopper.  No one could be more proud of that.  It also doesn't mean we won't interact in the future, it only means that it won't be as often.  Trust in the Netjer, trust in the Nisut. If she wasn't trustworthy we wouldn't speak through her"

Thank you for posting this. Thank you so very much.

Would you mind if I copied it and either print it or put it into my private journal? It has that vibe of "keep me and read me again", so I don't want to forget about it. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 29, 2010, 04:27:54 pm
Henu Tuwer

By all means, do as you like.

Senebty
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tuwer on January 29, 2010, 04:48:51 pm
Thank you Kheper. I appreciate it. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on January 29, 2010, 06:38:55 pm
I'm probably reposting that too. That's a wonderful thing to keep in mind for anyone{/u] who may end up disappointed in their RPD results. And I'm sure Seta isn't the only one.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Bastmuttepta on January 29, 2010, 06:49:49 pm
Ditto on that one. You ever read something that makes so much sense and you connect with so deeply that there's really no explanation you can think of other than divine influence?

THAT is what I get when reading that interchange. I'm definitely going to have to write that one down, keep hold of it, and remember it for my own RPD.

Senebty :)

Laura
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 29, 2010, 07:27:22 pm
*Squee*

I'm so happy I could be of help.

  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maretemheqat on January 29, 2010, 08:49:35 pm
Well said Kheper.
Well said indeed. :)

~Maret
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 29, 2010, 09:29:16 pm
Thanks so much Maret.  Coming from you this means a lot. Really.

:)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maretemheqat on January 29, 2010, 10:02:51 pm
Why from me?
What you posted have been my thoughts all along regarding this specific issue. I just couldn't write it down as eloquently as you have.

~Maret
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on January 30, 2010, 03:39:46 am
Quote
Trust in the Netjer, trust in the Nisut. If she wasn't trustworthy we wouldn't speak through her"


I think it is really important to keep in mind what she is being trusted TO DO. Being a diviner does not make someone more 'holy' somehow than anyone else. The Nisut is a human being who has hurt people in her life, just like you and me and everyone else. It has happened, and will probably happen again.

Keep the RPD in perspective. It's not even necessary, it's a choice. The ancients didn't do this.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 30, 2010, 05:17:57 am
Because I admire the wonderful work you do in your profession that harmonizes so well with Heqat.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 30, 2010, 05:27:11 am
Em Hotep Maai.  

It's good for people to understand the role of the Diviner.  No it most certainly doesn't make anyone more "holy" than another.  In fact it can be quite a scary calling which many will run from because of the nature of the responsibility and the impact it can have on other people's lives.

Senebty
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on January 30, 2010, 05:32:34 am
Quote from: Kheper
Em Hotep Maai.  

It's good for people to understand the role of the Diviner.  No it most certainly doesn't make anyone more "holy" than another.  In fact it can be quite a scary calling which many will run from because of the nature of the responsibility and the impact it can have on other people's lives.

Senebty


Having divined as my full time job for a total of about 9 years off and on, I think the responsibility is kind of misunderstood.

It's more like being a kind of technician. Maybe more like using an x-ray machine or something. Meaning, seeing something that isn't visible otherwise. You have to know how to use and maintain the tool, how to position things and how to interpret the results. If that is scary to some people, I suppose divining could be too. What's really scary, from my perspective when divining, is how people react to the results.

You can do everything possible to help the client keep it in perspective, but you can't completely control where they take it. The most important thing to emphasize to someone who comes to you for a divination is that they have control over what they do with the information.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: TabauAmunet on January 30, 2010, 07:57:49 am
Quote from: Ma'ai
You can do everything possible to help the client keep it in perspective, but you can't completely control where they take it. The most important thing to emphasize to someone who comes to you for a divination is that they have control over what they do with the information.

QFT!
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Djehutyendy on January 30, 2010, 12:35:53 pm
Thank you, Kheper, for sharing. But this particularly hit home for me, and has given me much to ponder:

Quote from: Kheper
Have you even considered that when I work with you that I may have consulted your Parents and or Beloveds first or even went back to Them with questions or opinions as to how They thought things went with you?  You're making a big assumption that the only interaction going on here is between you and I.  That certainly isn't the case.  The same is true of everyone in Kemetic Orthodoxy.  We of the Netjeru communicate with one another all the time, we simply do not share that information with you or that we even do such a thing.


While I was/am content with my line-up, it was still nice to read this. Thank you!

Senebty
Endy
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 30, 2010, 12:38:02 pm
I agree.  I tell people the future is not set, that things can be changed, however if things continue on their present course, then what I have divined is a likely outcome.  Unfortunately some people will do everything in their power to avoid the possible outcome and it ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.  That is by actively trying to change it, they cause it to come about.  My take on this isn't so much divining so that the situation can be avoided, but more to the point of being prepared for it when it does occur, whereas if they had not taken steps, the result would be that much more dramatic.  Often the diviner is blamed for the "bad" outcome.  "You're not doing it right, that won't happen, or you're wrong" is what I've heard many times.  Their future (or what's occurring presently) isn't up to me, it's totally within their hands.  So they can either accept what they have been told and learn from it and be prepared when and if it does come about or ignore it and suffer the consequences of their actions.  This was the whole point of my post about the RPD and my conversation with Set that I posted. Basically one change in step, one pebble falling or a word uttered or not uttered can change an entire result of a divination.  It's a huge responsibility, which is why I sometimes refer to it as a cursed blessing. A belessing to know the future and be able to help others and a curse when people ignore what they asked for and blame you for the result.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on January 30, 2010, 12:56:55 pm
I understand that what I have and can say will incite anger in many if not most people within the House of Netjer due to the fact that they do have trust for Rev. Siuda (and have had no reason given to them not to.)  All I can ask is that you keep in mind that there have been people who have been shown reason to distrust Rev. Siuda and her priesthood.  It's interesting to me that Set does not make emphasis of the fact she is human and sometimes can make mistakes, divinity imparted to her or not.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on January 30, 2010, 01:12:21 pm
If I couldn't trust anyone who had ever made a mistake, I couldn't trust anyone --including myself. I don't think even the divine is immune from this, though They make them far less frequently than we do. Nevertheless the RPD seems pretty "idiot proof". You toss the shells, they form a pattern, you look the pattern up in a book and there you have it. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 30, 2010, 01:22:37 pm
Quote from: Kheper
Often the diviner is blamed for the "bad" outcome.  "You're not doing it right, that won't happen, or you're wrong" is what I've heard many times.  Their future (or what's occurring presently) isn't up to me, it's totally within their hands.  So they can either accept what they have been told and learn from it and be prepared when and if it does come about or ignore it and suffer the consequences of their actions.  This was the whole point of my post about the RPD and my conversation with Set that I posted. Basically one change in step, one pebble falling or a word uttered or not uttered can change an entire result of a divination.  It's a huge responsibility, which is why I sometimes refer to it as a cursed blessing. A blessing to know the future and be able to help others and a curse when people ignore what they asked for and blame you for the result.



Please re-read this.

Of course you are free to believe as you like.  You do not accept what you were told.  So be it.  Others have went through the RPD and had similar feelings and yet after they accepted what they were told they considered it and looked within and saw the truth of the matter.  It didn't change any pre-existing relationship they had with a given Name (from their point of view) but merely added new concepts and ideas they had never occurred to them when they accepted the outcome of their RPD.

Trust is earned.  The ones who have come here, had the RPD and accepted it's outcome obviously trust the Rev. Tamara Siuda (Nisut) that she wouldn't led them astray.  From a Diviner's standpoint it's inconceivable to do such a thing willfully, the consequences for such actions are....dramatic to say the least. Not that you have said she has done any such thing, you're merely convinced that she made a mistake.  Fine.  Have it your way.  No matter what anyone has said in three years, you refuse to budge, which in some cases in commendable, in this case not so much.  For it seems to me that you seem to be more interested in sowing discord and placing doubt in the hearts of the present and future members, than you do in actually learning anything. You can still be a member here if you do not agree with the RPD, which is what all these posts seem to be about, but you seem to want to be Shemsu or a Priest and still have your RPD your way.  Under the precepts of Kemetic Orthodoxy that just won't happen and those who have become Shemsu and Priests accept that and live with it.  You seem unwilling to do that.  This is not going to change, your seeming insistence that the Nisut was in error shows that you want the House of Netjer and the Netjeru themselves to bend to your will.  Frankly other than accepting your RPD and learning from it and seeing what the future holds or going elsewhere and joining with those who hold your viewpoint and forgetting about Kemetic Orthodoxy,...other than that, I don't know what else to tell you.

Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on January 30, 2010, 01:28:49 pm
Quote from: Taji
If I couldn't trust anyone who had ever made a mistake, I couldn't trust anyone --including myself. I don't think even the divine is immune from this, though They make them far less frequently than we do.


Love this.

Quote from: Taji
Nevertheless the RPD seems pretty "idiot proof". You toss the shells, they form a pattern, you look the pattern up in a book and there you have it. :)


I think it is worth considering what it points to as well. Maybe this could be an ongoing discovery in certain ways. What I've taken away from conversations with Hemet about post RPD beloved divinations is that the results can be puzzling and it is still not 100% clear what they are really revealing.

To me, a Parent is the one who agreed to look after me when I was all vulnerable and stupid and couldn't function in the world without a tolerant, committed individual to protect me from outside dangers and from myself. When we are new to the Kemetic 'world' and culture and Universe, the RPD gives us that. But I don't know a lot of people who would call their biological parent their best friend, for example. Other relationships are commonly a source of more general feelings of joy.

I know that's been said before, probably better, but given how hung up people can get on the RPD results (I did, in my particular way), I think it bears repeating, and repeating and repeating. :P
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on January 30, 2010, 01:38:32 pm
Well said Taji

Well said Maai

I have nothing further.

Henu to you both.

Senebty
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on January 30, 2010, 02:12:49 pm
Quote from: Kheper
Trust is earned.  The ones who have come here, had the RPD and accepted it's outcome obviously trust the Rev. Tamara Siuda (Nisut) that she wouldn't led them astray.


Trust is indeed earned. My 2c here is that while I did indeed trust Hemet not to *willfully* lead me astray, I believe diviners can be wrong. Shells can fall wrong, cards can go in the wrong place or be read incorrectly.

Blind faith is IMO, not a particularly good idea. I have faith in my RPD result and my RPD result only. I still don't believe the process is flawless. Only if I could see all events in the future and into people's souls could I make such a claim.


Quote
For it seems to me that you seem to be more interested in sowing discord and placing doubt in the hearts of the present and future members, than you do in actually learning anything.


Note, I haven't read through the whole thread here so I may have missed something big. But I have no problem with someone "placing doubt in the hearts of present and future members", and I would hope many others don't either. It's a good thing. Full stop. Anybody who's faith is shaken by such a thing didn't have faith to start with. Anybody who is turned away by it already had doubts. Contrary points of view are to be relished and treasured. Bad experiences should be shared openly and be easy to find. People new to the House should be able to read any and all experiences, from the ecstatic to the utterly dreadful.



Going to go back and read the whole thread now I think, as I'm currently a bit confused as to why everybody's so heated. Relax! Life is varied, our experiences are all different, our paths all follow different roads. So long as we're moving forward, be glad for each other.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on January 30, 2010, 02:44:18 pm
I can only say that I cannot disagree that my own posts seem to spread discord and hopelessness.  Let it be clarified, I only say to think greatly before partaking the RPD, as it does have great consequences.  As far as I recall, no time recently have I ever told someone not to undergo this ritual.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on January 30, 2010, 04:00:42 pm
Quote from: Kheper

Of course you are free to believe as you like.  You do not accept what you were told.  So be it.  Others have went through the RPD and had similar feelings and yet after they accepted what they were told they considered it and looked within and saw the truth of the matter.  It didn't change any pre-existing relationship they had with a given Name (from their point of view) but merely added new concepts and ideas they had never occurred to them when they accepted the outcome of their RPD.
 


Perhaps I'm wrong, but as I've read through this thread, it seems to me that she's not necessarily saying the RPD was wrong, but that it was wrong to be told that her prior relationship with Set was now null and void.

Maybe I'm misreading, but that is my impression. Not the results of the RPD as much as being told she was wrong for feeling she has a relationship with Setekh.

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on January 30, 2010, 04:37:29 pm
Quote from: Devo
Perhaps I'm wrong, but as I've read through this thread, it seems to me that she's not necessarily saying the RPD was wrong, but that it was wrong to be told that her prior relationship with Set was now null and void.

Thank you Devo.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on January 30, 2010, 04:57:13 pm
Kheper, I think you hit the nail square on the head.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sobeqsenu on January 30, 2010, 06:20:07 pm
A few thoughts here:

1. The RPD does require some amount of trust, but as others have said: if we couldn't trust anyone who has made mistakes in the past, we can't trust anyone.

2. If someone has been hurt by a mistake in the past, they are not required to forgive the person who hurt them just because a majority of others now trust that person and see that things are different. This means that they may speak negatively about the person or event, and no amount of cajoling will change that. Forgiveness is something internal that can only be triggered by the offended individual alone.

3. The RPD is not for everyone nor is the House of Netjer the place for everyone. We all need to understand this and accept this.

I'll say that I agree with the idea of doubt being useful. I recently had a professor say that he does not believe in any scientific theory, but instead accepts the only plausible theory while actively attempting to poke holes in the theory. That is how I treat my faith, and I believe that to be a responsible attitude. Constant questioning of my world and the world of faith keeps me spiritually active and aware.

I do also agree that we all need to relax a little bit. Nobody has said anything really controversial here, other than someone publicly saying that they have been hurt by a mistake of the past. Why shouldn't that be said? While as a faith we do claim that Hemet (AUS) is endowed with the Kingly Ka, everyone needs to remember that she and her priesthood are also totally human. Mistakes were made, people were hurt. Let the number of content Shemsu present in the House now speak to how things have changed. While I don't think a thing we Shemsu can say will change what has happened in the past, we can live as examples of our positive experiences with the Rite of Parent Divination. I pray only that those who reject Kemetic Orthodoxy for any reason find another place in which they are as happy and content as I am here.

The RPD may not be infallible. Remember when it was suddenly discovered that all children of Set should have Heru-wer as Beloveds, and vice versa? Maybe down the line something will be revealed that will change the way the RPD is performed. Can we see the future and know if this is true? Not reliably. Until then, we can only choose to place our trust in a woman who has been charged with a very daunting, very formidable task-- or not. Both are 100% okay.

That's just my $0.02, though.

Senebty,
Sobeq
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on January 31, 2010, 12:19:25 pm
I have a question, and I'm not trying to be disrespectful, it just happened to cross my mind, and I wondered the answer.

The RPD is supposed to tell you who your parents are, yes? Which they are your parents because they fashioned your ba, right? (making sure I have the basics correct). Since the AE didn't have this ritual back in their time- who fashioned their bas? And how did they figure out their parents/ba creators? Since it wasn't in this fashion. Is the ba creation thing literal, or more metaphorical?

Hope that wasn't too jumbled... I'm out of it right now.

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on January 31, 2010, 12:30:19 pm
In antiquity, people generally worshipped the god(s) of their town or region. The RPD was instituted at Sekhmet's request to substitute for this as none of us now live in Kemetic communities with their own patron deities.  How this figures into the "parents create the ba" concept I don't know and that would be a good question for Hemet (AUS). :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: kathleen on January 31, 2010, 10:30:04 pm
Quote from: Taji
Nevertheless the RPD seems pretty "idiot proof". You toss the shells, they form a pattern, you look the pattern up in a book and there you have it. :)



i am curious about the role is played by the pre-RPD questionnaire that we fill out at the end of the beginner's class.  why is the questionnaire necessary?  isn't the actual divination process sufficient to reveal a person's lineup?
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on January 31, 2010, 10:46:11 pm
Yes, but I think part of the point is to really get us thinking about what we are about to undergo and why.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Bastmuttepta on January 31, 2010, 10:53:27 pm
Quote from: kathleen
i am curious about the role is played by the pre-RPD questionnaire that we fill out at the end of the beginner's class.  why is the questionnaire necessary?  isn't the actual divination process sufficient to reveal a person's lineup?


It's my understanding that the RPD questionnaire (that I have yet to do... haven't been bumped up to Remetj yet ^.^;) exists moreso for one's own benefit, than for Hemet (AUS). I think the questions are designed to get us thinking about the Names, our feelings about them, our considerations prior to having the RPD done... basically giving us a chance to really examine ourselves before undergoing such a big rite. Also, it gives Hemet the opportunity to see that this is something we have actively put a lot of thought and time into and that we are taking it seriously.

Of course, there could be more to it/other reasons that I don't know yet... we'll just have to see :D

Senebty,

Laura
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Maainakhtsen on February 01, 2010, 01:23:21 am
Hmm... seems like if that were the case, we wouldn't have to send back the answers.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on February 01, 2010, 05:56:57 am
In my opinion the reason would be so that the Nisut could invite the ones we put down on our questionaire into her presence and ask them to influence the casting of the shells.  In my experience an invited deity or spirit can affect their surroundings, causing objects to move, lights to flicker, thunderstorms, rain, lightning, whatever is needed to get a point across.  So we answer the questionaire as to who we think is our Parents and or Beloveds and the Nisut invites those ones to her presence, circle, whatever and they do or do not influence the outcome.They then let her know by certain pre-arranged signals a yes and a no.  Basic Divinatory practice.

  Could you imagine how much energy would be shooting around if ALL the Netjer were in the same building at the same time, not to mention overlapping spiritual presences? They would be replacing all the lightbubs in the building for the next week. Hence the reason for the questionaire and why it's prudent to do it this way, rather than invite ALL the Netjer.

 Also the ones we think are our Parents and or Beloveds (who we have had contact with) would send out their own invite to the proper Netjer and they would show up and influence the result by changing the pattern in which the shells land and or giving positive/negative answers to to the Nisut's questions.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Satra on February 01, 2010, 07:15:28 am
Quote from: kathleen
i am curious about the role is played by the pre-RPD questionnaire that we fill out at the end of the beginner's class.  why is the questionnaire necessary?  isn't the actual divination process sufficient to reveal a person's lineup?


We fill out the questionnaire to help Hemet(AUS) get to know us better that's all; because by undergoing the RPD and potential Shemsuhood we become her students.

During my RPD and Akhu divination there were many specific things that were said that Hemet(AUS) could not have known any other way.  These were things that I never discussed on the forums or in the beginners class, on the class/RPD questionnaires, or with anyone else in the House.  They were also things I had never posted about anywhere online.

The RPD process is one of the most intense and enlightening experiences of my life, and it still sends a thrill through my heart whenever I think about it.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Padjaiemweru on February 01, 2010, 08:31:21 am
Quote from: Sati
Quote from: kathleen
i am curious about the role is played by the pre-RPD questionnaire that we fill out at the end of the beginner's class.  why is the questionnaire necessary?  isn't the actual divination process sufficient to reveal a person's lineup?


We fill out the questionnaire to help Hemet(AUS) get to know us better that's all; because by undergoing the RPD and potential Shemsuhood we become her students.


Actually, there is more to it then just that.  Yes, some of the info on those sheets is, as you said, to help Hemet get to know us better, but not all of it.

The RPD is not just the casting and reading back of results.  There is a lot of heka built into the ceremony (remember, the RPD is similar to other culture's coming of age ceremonies).  It starts with accepting the Hemet is able to direct knowledge from Netjer to us.  One has to accept that, and then you spend time thinking about your connections (past and present) with Netjer.  You spend 4 days (duality doubled) with your thoughts in written form (the most powerful forms of heka are written) in a shrine that you have constructed (or one a few rare occasions, that you share with family).

The thoughts that you have had are sent to Hemet, where She completes further heka, invluding purchasing offerings to Netjer (both in general and to Those who you have said have had past or present connections with you.  Offerings are also purchased for your Akhu, to invite them to that part of the divination, and to help open the door for you to work with them.  (All of these offerings are where the fees for the RPD go, and often times the offerings cost more than the fees that Hemet gets from us, either because we pay a reduced costs due to our own financial situations, or because some Names demand higher priced things.)  I believe this period of offerings on your behalf is also for 4 days, although I may be incorrect on that specific (but this is why they have to be scheduled in advance).

Finally, Hemet and the individual get in contact, either by phone, instant messenger, or some other method, the shells are cast, interpreted, recorded, and the information is relayed.

So what many of us think of the RPD is just the last flashy bit.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sobeqsenu on February 01, 2010, 09:32:57 am
I think it has a very practical application as well. In the questionnaire, you talk about your relationships with the gods before your RPD. If you say "I LOVE BAST AND SHE IS GOING TO BE MY MOTHER AND I WILL HATE EVERYTHING IF BAST IS NOT MY MOTHER", and in the divination, Bast is nowhere to be found, Hemet (AUS) is prepared for your reaction. Even if it has no other purpose than to give Hemet a little bit of preparation as a spiritual counselor during the reading, not in the results of the reading, but in being prepared for the potential reaction of the candidate.

I'm sure there are also other ritual purposes, but I can see it being a very useful and important tool for communication purposes.

Senebty,
Sobeq
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Seta on February 01, 2010, 09:54:24 am
Quote from: Taji
In antiquity, people generally worshipped the god(s) of their town or region. The RPD was instituted at Sekhmet's request to substitute for this as none of us now live in Kemetic communities with their own patron deities.  How this figures into the "parents create the ba" concept I don't know and that would be a good question for Hemet (AUS).


People were not limited to who they could beseech and why.  True the household deities (Taweret, Bes, etc.) were in each house's shrine due to their allocation of 'specialty', and then the town or city's group of deities, were probably the first recognized and perhaps even acknowledged when an issue was at hand, but not always.  Sometimes people would go to different deities' oracles for guidance and assurance.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on February 01, 2010, 10:16:31 am
After much thought on this, it really doesn't matter to me who shows up in the RPD and who doesn't.  One Name is not somehow "better" than another.  All have things to teach.  They want me to learn specific things about them and myself.  I will accept whomever shows up, for it would surely stunt my spiritual growth not to mention harm my relationship with them were I to do otherwise.  This is simply MY opinion as it applies to MYSELF ONLY.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on February 01, 2010, 11:46:34 am
Quote from: Kheper

  Could you imagine how much energy would be shooting around if ALL the Netjer were in the same building at the same time, not to mention overlapping spiritual presences? They would be replacing all the lightbubs in the building for the next week. Hence the reason for the questionaire and why it's prudent to do it this way, rather than invite ALL the Netjer.


I have to disagree with this. I commonly ask the Netjer (as a whole) to help me with divination, meditation, etc. Granted, I'm no Nisut, but all of netjer is all of netjer- no matter how you slice it. Seems to me, if the soul purpose of the questionnaire was for her to ask the specific gods of the person to come forth, that should could more or less say 'Hey netjer, I have so and so here- whichever of you wants to have a say in this, do so" and the same general gist would be there.

I do like some of the other reasonings proposed here about the need for the questionnaire. It used to make me raise my eyebrow, knowing that you write your wanted deities on a paper, and gave it to her- like it was a cheat sheet. Glad to see that there are other potential purposes for said sheet.

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sedjemes on February 01, 2010, 11:57:21 am
Hotep!

" It used to make me raise my eyebrow, knowing that you write your wanted deities on a paper, and gave it to her- like it was a cheat sheet."

Oh I can attest to how that would NOT work here. Aset was nowhere on my questionnaire, not even as a "maybe." Neither was Ra for that matter. Months after my RPD I learned that many folks back then snickered as I happily extolled about how I was probably the child of this or that deity--never Aset.

So, no cheat sheet that I can ever see. Nope nope. By the way, I am SO an Aset child ;) I wonder how I ever missed it. Ten years later haha.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on February 01, 2010, 11:58:05 am
Quote from: Seta

People were not limited to who they could beseech and why.  True the household deities (Taweret, Bes, etc.) were in each house's shrine due to their allocation of 'specialty', and then the town or city's group of deities, were probably the first recognized and perhaps even acknowledged when an issue was at hand, but not always.  Sometimes people would go to different deities' oracles for guidance and assurance.


This is so.  Neither are we limited today to the gods of our RPDs only.  
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on February 01, 2010, 12:00:36 pm
I would think that it may give valuable information to the *person* in question. How they view themselves, how "accurate" they are on diety perception, how they manifest devotion in their life etc etc. You can learn alot from someone by how they see themselves and what they profess to want.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on February 01, 2010, 12:02:11 pm
Quote from: Sedjemes
By the way, I am SO an Aset child ;) I wonder how I ever missed it. Ten years later haha.


Ok, so what "makes" you an Iset child....     :  )
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Mezaenaset on February 01, 2010, 12:50:40 pm
Quote from: Sedjemes
By the way, I am SO an Aset child


Yes, KI Sedjemes, you SO are!  
But just remember, I'm Aset's favorite!!!   ;)


*runs for cover*
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on February 01, 2010, 01:58:30 pm
Quote from: Sedjemes

Oh I can attest to how that would NOT work here. Aset was nowhere on my questionnaire, not even as a "maybe." Neither was Ra for that matter. Months after my RPD I learned that many folks back then snickered as I happily extolled about how I was probably the child of this or that deity--never Aset.

So, no cheat sheet that I can ever see. Nope nope. By the way, I am SO an Aset child ;) I wonder how I ever missed it. Ten years later haha.


Yeah, I'm slowly starting to see that- as I read more about people's experiences with the RPD, etc.

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on February 01, 2010, 02:02:02 pm
Quote from: Devo
I do like some of the other reasonings proposed here about the need for the questionnaire. It used to make me raise my eyebrow, knowing that you write your wanted deities on a paper, and gave it to her- like it was a cheat sheet. Glad to see that there are other potential purposes for said sheet.


I felt the same way. I think I actually spoke to her about it because I was that concerned.

Part of the way it was explained to me is that she puts the print out of our answers into the shrine she makes for the RPD. So what it sort of is, is a piece of us. Sort of? A connection to us.


This stuff all made me curious and I went back and checked my answers. I said I was most drawn to Bast, Heru (in many forms), Sobek, and Wepwawet (he had by that time suddenly reared his head). I was rly rly careful to keep my language equal in tone, showing no preference. I even added a disclaimer at the end that, regardless of my answers, Hemet was to understand that since the class I had felt pulled in all directions and so I had no thoughts as to my possible line-up. I didn't want to bias the results, but at the same time felt I had been given a good enough explanation to give an honest answer. I said the Gods I was fascinated by were Sobek, Ra, and Heru, particularly the combinations of the latter two Gods and their many forms *peers at Ra-Heruakhety in her line-up*

I didn't mention Serqet. Only that I hated Aset (and Wesir) >.>

I am inclined to trust it because of my personal experiences. Anybody not having actually seen the relationships with the deities that I had would be more than forgiven for being cynical. I certainly would be.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 01, 2010, 02:26:57 pm
I feel like a horribly boring person, having mentioned all but one of my Lineup in the questionnaire :D
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tuwer on February 01, 2010, 03:38:29 pm
Heh.

In my RPD questionnaire, I mentioned Bast, Set, and Geb as Those I have talked with or feel close to. I said how I was scared of Aset (I'm not now), and I really didn't know much about anyOne else.

Hemet(AUS) mentioned, in Her response to my questionnaire, that I "smelled" like Bast, but that I have the temper/protectiveness of a Sekhmet kid. She had no idea how such things would manifest through my RPD.

And then we got the results from the shells... and I was a daughter of Bast-Mut and beloved of Amun-Ra. I never, ever would have guessed Amun-Ra, and I had never heard of Bast-Mut before (I was Her first divined "anything" in the House). So, to say that the questionnaire could have been anything of a "cheat sheet" or whatnot for my RPD... I'd have to completely disagree. ;)

(Then again, two years later when my husband was going into his RPD, I didn't vocalize my prediction that he'd be a Bast-Mut kid too. Didn't want everyone to say that I was just hoping it 'cause I wanted more siblings. ;) :grin: )
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on February 01, 2010, 04:05:34 pm
You kind of had me pegged too, though didn't you, sis?  :)

I think I did have Bast-Mut in my questionaire.  I said I was close to Bast, Bast-Mut, Yinepu and Sekhmet and somewhat Set.  I said that I was afraid of Aset (I'm not anymore either).

So I am really not the walking poster child for "Hey look how this questionnaire had nothing to do with my RPD!"  But it can work that way too.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on February 01, 2010, 05:35:29 pm
Why are so many seemingly afraid of Aset? Any particular reason?

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tuwer on February 01, 2010, 05:40:37 pm
Quote from: Devo
Why are so many seemingly afraid of Aset? Any particular reason?

-Devo

For me, it was the idea that She is BIG and SCARY... and that didn't sit well at all with me at the time.

After having interacted with Her, I understand that She is still BIG and SCARY, but Her form of BIG and SCARY isn't harmful to me (unless I really, really, REALLY f-up). :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on February 01, 2010, 06:07:06 pm
Quote from: Devo
Why are so many seemingly afraid of Aset? Any particular reason?

-Devo


All I can relate is my own experience.

I dedicated to Iset last year (well, earlier in the year).

I did this with severe miscalculations about what I was expecting her to be like. I dedicated not quite thinking she was all love and light and rainbows for sure, but definitely not expecting what I got. She has since then set me utterly and mercilessly straight on my "miscalculations"....

and then some....

She is BEYOND powerful, beyond truthful, she will run you ragged and sore, in the pursuit of forcing you to be THE best you can be. (Sorry if the army slogan is now flitting in your head like it is mine...) She gives NO quarter, she has no patience for lazy misktakes, false assumptions or obtuse stubborness. The sometimes harsh glare of truth can be a bit hard on the eyes. I could keep going but I'll quit babbling now...

.....at least in my experiences with her, that is what she's like....
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on February 01, 2010, 06:58:34 pm
I suppose I'm used to that sort of regime. I've been working with Setekh for a while now, and as the weeks/months progressed with him, she slowly has been making herself far more known in my life. I'm not sure what she wants- but she's there. But she doesn't scare me. I guess I'm just used to is XD

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 01, 2010, 07:36:00 pm
-laughs- Another person whose questionnaire doesn't reflect their RPD. Nefertem was on it, yes. But I mentioned that I was 100% sure that Bast wouldn't show up, and Wepwawet-Yinepu wasn't even anywhere on my mind, much less on my questionnaire.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on February 01, 2010, 07:56:03 pm
Quote from: Devo
I suppose I'm used to that sort of regime. I've been working with Setekh for a while now, and as the weeks/months progressed with him, she slowly has been making herself far more known in my life. I'm not sure what she wants- but she's there. But she doesn't scare me. I guess I'm just used to is XD

-Devo

Honestly she doesnt scare me either. We both tough broads. *wink*

She's got my number (of course) and has thus far not given me any time to twidle my thumbs....

Another explicit trait I forgot to mention....it cannot be overstated exactly how much the word Queen matters...lol....
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tawaisenu on February 01, 2010, 10:24:46 pm
In my questionnaire, I wrote that the Names I didn't know but WANTED to get to know were Taweret and Amun. Look how that turned out. :D

Also, the Names I had a relationship prior to the RPD was Bast and Nut, and Hemet(AUS) said that my Mother is sort of like Them, but not. Maybe They were in cahoots with each Other.....
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Arienihethert on February 05, 2010, 01:47:35 pm
Quote from: Sobeqsenu
I think it has a very practical application as well. In the questionnaire, you talk about your relationships with the gods before your RPD. If you say "I LOVE BAST AND SHE IS GOING TO BE MY MOTHER AND I WILL HATE EVERYTHING IF BAST IS NOT MY MOTHER", and in the divination, Bast is nowhere to be found, Hemet (AUS) is prepared for your reaction. Even if it has no other purpose than to give Hemet a little bit of preparation as a spiritual counselor during the reading, not in the results of the reading, but in being prepared for the potential reaction of the candidate.


This was kind of the case for me. Because of something in my past (which I mentioned on my questionnaire), it was inevitable that I would have an emotional reaction to what came up in my Akhu reading. It was good for both Hemet (AUS) and me that she had an inkling before hand so could warn me that I was probably going to cry, because she was about to cry. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Iwaat on February 20, 2010, 04:30:34 am
O.o i have a question...
what exactly is the purpose of the Akhu divination that i have seen mentioned a few times in the thread?
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Iaityinepu on February 20, 2010, 09:38:21 pm
Quote from: Kheper

"Some are led to the House by Bast,Yinepu and many others but they do not show up in the RPD.  Have you ever thought why that is?  It's because the person had certain traits or problems that only that particular God/ess could deal with in the best manner possible. Perhaps they were self-doubters, perhaps pessimists and so on.  So a certain Netjer takes it upon him or herself to interact with said person until they are ready to have their Parents and or Beloveds revealed.  You must understand, this is not for our benefit, but for yours.  The principles of Ma'at bind even the Netjer to do what is BEST for the ones having the RPD done and not what those ones may necessarily want.  Having your Parents and Beloveds revealed is a teaching tool and also a test of your committment to the Netjer and the Kemetic Orthodoxy whom the Netjer speak through.  If you accept it, then more lessons are to follow by the ones who know you best. Have you even considered that when I work with you that I may have consulted your Parents and or Beloveds first or even went back to Them with questions or opinions as to how They thought things went with you?  You're making a big assumption that the only interaction going on here is between you and I.  That certainly isn't the case.  The same is true of everyone in Kemetic Orthodoxy.  We of the Netjeru communicate with one another all the time, we simply do not share that information with you or that we even do such a thing.  Being one of the Netjeru does not give one all the answers to where the others are ignored.  We are all part of the same Divine Spirit and as such we each have our specialties.  Right now you are being taught by me.  Think of it this way:  You go to school and are taught by a variety of teachers, you graduate and them move on to university, to be taught by other teachers who are more qualified than the latter and who build upon the foundation of what you have already learned.  Their teachings do not invalidate what you learned nor your own experiences, though it may seem so at times.  You simply do not have the entire picture and we do, but you must be spoon fed it slowly, less you choke on it or it becomes distasteful you and you look for food from others who do not know your tastes as well as your Parents and or Beloveds.  I may or may not show up on your RPD, but that not a cause for grief, but rather one for joy as it means you no longer need me.  It means you have progressed beyond what I can teach you and are ready for solid food young grasshopper.  No one could be more proud of that.  It also doesn't mean we won't interact in the future, it only means that it won't be as often.  Trust in the Netjer, trust in the Nisut. If she wasn't trustworthy we wouldn't speak through her"


I know Tuwer already asked, but I wanted to be sure it was ok for me to print out and keep a copy of too...  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on February 20, 2010, 10:33:58 pm
Ailouros,  I replied to your FB post.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Iwaat on February 21, 2010, 05:06:18 am
Thank you Tahai, that makes sense.and was rather helpful :).
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Kheper on February 21, 2010, 04:31:57 pm
Anyone can copy and keep this.  It was for everyone's benefit, not just now but in future times.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Iaityinepu on February 21, 2010, 05:41:50 pm
:) thanks Kheper!
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Senusenu on February 25, 2010, 02:38:47 pm
I did peg the majority of my lineup in my questionnaire. I missed Bast, but I mentioned Set, Yinepu (turned out I got His reverse side :D ), and Khonsu I believe. I also mentioned Sobek if I remember right, and said that I found Heru a little intimidating.

Just as Hemet (AUS) went to get my results, I actually saw all of them sitting with me together, all except for Bast, but it did vaguely cross my mind to wonder if there was a cat present. I have always loved dogs more >_>  I ended up with a bunch of strong, powerful, somewhat scary and intimidating men and one fluffy,happy cat. It was rather strange!

But I knew absolutely that it was right, and so here I am.

Senebty
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on April 21, 2010, 10:53:46 am
I can't currently find where it was posted in this thread, but it's my understanding that when the RPD is done, the shells are tossed, and then a list of forms is consulted to match the form of shells to the proper deity, yes?

If this is correct, then is there a complete list of ALL deities of AE? Or is only a portion of deities available to be utilized in an RPD? And has there ever been a case where the shells have fallen in a non-recognizable pattern?

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tai'awepwawet on April 21, 2010, 09:35:59 pm
If this is correct, then is there a complete list of ALL deities of AE? Or is only a portion of deities available to be utilized in an RPD?

This has been on my mind too. Given that a notebook can only be SO big, you know? It MUST be limited, given the thousands of possible Gods. Personally I would love more flexibility in the throws for aspected Gods, like the possibility of Aset-Hethert or plain Aset coming up, but that would vastly increase even the current list.


I haven't heard of the shells falling in unknown formations, but an older member might be better qualified to comment there.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Setkheniitw on April 22, 2010, 12:41:11 am
I was totally unaware that so many people had put Aset as a Goddess they were afraid of... I totally put the same thing.  Part of my personal, emotional stipulation when I decided to get the RPD was "Would I throw a fit if something happened such as, say, I only get one Parent and that Parent is Aset?"

Actually, though, I think "afraid" is a strong word.  I am intimidated, which is like... fear lite.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sekhenetnut on April 22, 2010, 03:37:50 am
Honestly I'm the same. If I have the RPD and Aset shows up, I think I'll be hiding under a blanket for a while.
I'm completely intimidated by Her (and Sekhmet).

...What if both show up?!O.O
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Menemaset on April 22, 2010, 07:46:53 am
Quote from: Utusitusi
Honestly I'm the same. If I have the RPD and Aset shows up, I think I'll be hiding under a blanket for a while.
I'm completely intimidated by Her (and Sekhmet).

...What if both show up?!O.O


Awe, my Mother? :D She doesn't bite. . .hard. :D

I think all of the Names have their own intimidating aspects about Them, but Aset doesn't strike any particular fear within me. I just have this huge sense of awe because She created me. I want to give Her reasons to be proud of me. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on April 22, 2010, 09:11:02 am
Like I said, I must be a glutton for punishment. Me and Aset have been working together for quite a while now. I honestly don't get what is so scary (same goes with Setekh... he's not scary).

To me, that's a shame and a flaw that only certain deities can be utilized. I work with, or at least assoc. with, some obscure gods. And the fact that they may not show up in an RPD because she doesn't have a layout for them would make me sad.

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tanebet on April 22, 2010, 09:15:45 am
You can work with any Name you want, not only the ones appearing in your RPD. It is a common misconception that one can only have a relationship with those Gods.

Senebty
Tanebet
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Ta_Imu_Aset on April 22, 2010, 09:46:14 am
Quote from: Devo
Like I said, I must be a glutton for punishment. Me and Aset have been working together for quite a while now. I honestly don't get what is so scary (same goes with Setekh... he's not scary).

To me, that's a shame and a flaw that only certain deities can be utilized. I work with, or at least assoc. with, some obscure gods. And the fact that they may not show up in an RPD because she doesn't have a layout for them would make me sad.

-Devo


I've never heard anyone say you can only work with your parents, in fact exactly the opposite.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on April 22, 2010, 09:58:22 am
I have to say that a system that allows for "Mut in Her Name of Amunet" as a result must be pretty damn inclusive, but that's just me :D So I wouldn't worry about obscure Gods not appearing :P
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on April 22, 2010, 11:02:51 am
I'm not saying that you can't work with gods outside of your RPD, however, in theory- *any* god can be your parent. And to have a ritual that has such emphasis on it, to only have a select few deities be "allowed" to be recognized... just seems... unfair?

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on April 22, 2010, 11:09:43 am
Quote from: Akhytsenu
I have to say that a system that allows for "Mut in Her Name of Amunet" as a result must be pretty damn inclusive, but that's just me :D So I wouldn't worry about obscure Gods not appearing :P


Yeah, I was going to say that there are a lot of assumptions here about what can and can't happen in RPD that may or may not be accurate.  I've seen some pretty obscure gods come up in RPD.  Like Satet.  I'd never even heard of Satet before I saw Her in someone's sig line.  So before sayinng "RPD is limited because it can't show X", I would make sure that was actually true.  Of course there can only be so many shell combinations, but my sense is that even so the possible combinations are pretty darn extensive.  :)  I mean it's a system that allows for "Mut", "Mut in her Name of Amunet" and "Amunet".  I mean that's pretty darned specific.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on April 22, 2010, 11:14:55 am
Yeah, that's why I wanted clarification... but only one person really addressed that.

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sedjemes on April 22, 2010, 11:32:40 am
I am hoping to get clarification on this question btw ;) just have not been able to as yet.
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tuwer on April 22, 2010, 11:45:11 am
Having been at two RPD weekends, and watching Hemet(AUS) consult the shell-result book (though, I haven't looked at the book myself), I'm fairly confident that there's room for just about any and every combination you could think of to be in there.

(The book is probably 50-100 pages, is about 5x7 inches, and from what I saw, every single page is full. Which gives the possibility of THOUSANDS of Names and combination's.)

Also, when I had my RPD back in 2004... the House had never seen any divination with Bast-Mut. Yet, the Bast-Mut affected the shells, and Hemet(AUS) had that result in Her book. :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Tahai on April 22, 2010, 12:11:02 pm
Em hotep, Devo.  

As our Nisut (AUS)is the only person who does RPD, and is the only person with a full understanding of the system, you should ask her what it's limitations are.  

Once again, we are all just guessing.  Go to the source.

Blessings,

Tahai

Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on April 22, 2010, 12:15:46 pm
Quote from: Devo
Yeah, that's why I wanted clarification... but only one person really addressed that.

-Devo


I agree with Tahai.  Hemet (AUS) is the only person who really can address that.  This would be a good question for "Ask the Nisut".  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Devo on April 22, 2010, 12:22:50 pm
I guess I was hoping that perhaps someone here would have an answer before I bugged her. I try to be very selective in what I ask, since I know she's a busy person.

-Devo
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Sedjemes on April 22, 2010, 12:46:58 pm
Actually Devo ;) you may be the first person to ask the question in just that way, which is why nobody has already come forward with a response.

People have generally asked about what gods tend to show up, or, will certain gods ever show up (which usually gets answered by "the gods can show up whenever they want" and then sometime soon after a god never before seen in an RPD does show up), or, why do some gods show up in huge blocks and others only once in a while.

Even questions about the process of RPD itself have only started being asked, which makes sense as we get more and more and more people going through it. One of Hemet's favorite answers is something along the lines of we have only been doing this for a few years, not enough time to talk about patterns or make any sort of guesses. Which I tend to interpret pretty much as anything could happen where the gods are concerned :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Taji on April 22, 2010, 01:29:17 pm
Yes, I don't remember this question being asked of Her before.  And I'm looking forward to learning about it too.  :)
Title: Re: A Word on RPD
Post by: Iaityinepu on May 03, 2010, 07:20:04 am
Quote from: Taji
 I've seen some pretty obscure gods come up in RPD.  Like Satet.  I'd never even heard of Satet before I saw Her in someone's sig line.  


That'd be me.. and I'd never even heard of Satet before she showed up in my line either.. but now that I've gotten to know her, I can reflect on all the times she was around before.