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Messages - Devo

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331
Quote from: WosretBast
Em hotep,

When I was taking my religious studies degree, we went back and forth for ages about the definition of religion. Even religious scholars can't agree on its definition, so I doubt we'll all find a definition we can agree upon here.


Agreed.

Quote from: TahekerutAset
I'd argue that "community" could include just you and your ancestors or you and your gods.

Buddhism has bodhisattavas (in Mahayana) and the Buddha (which would be in most cases a revered ancestor instead of a god).  And there are plenty of myths here too and ritual depending on where Buddhism is being practiced.  

And Taoism has the Tao and deities depending on which branch of Taoism we're talking about here.  

 

Good to know. I don't know much about either, so at least someone knows a bit more about it than I do :P
-Devo

332
Quote from: TahekerutAset
Within my religious studies classes, religion was defined as:

1) Belief in an ultimate power (this could be deities, energy, ancestors, spirits etc)
2) Myth (sacred narratives, stories)
3) Ritual
4) Community  

This one is more open ended, which I thinks helps it to encompass more religious whatnot. Would belief in an ultimate power work for Buddhism? Since I'm not sure what exactly "Ultimate power" could be or cover. Course, I don't know a whole lot about the "Asian" religions such as Taoism or Buddhism, and am not sure whether they have myth or ritual either. Another question I would ask is does community count for, let's say, solitary practitioners of some pagan faiths. What constitutes community? (just curious).
But as I said, I think I'd prefer this definition or "criteria" over the others.
-Devo

333
Quote from: Maretemheqat

No, this isn't soley what makes a religion a religion. This is only a shared component within religions and traditions. Traditions are more culturally minded, religions are belief minded.

I missed the part about the component of religions and traditions. I guess I thought you were using the words synonymously. Sorry.

Quote

F. Maurice defined a religion as following:
1. Belief in God/ Spirits,
2. Path to altered personal consciousness,
3. Cohesive community for worship,
4. Divinely sanctioned morality, and
5. A promise of life after death.

A more recent definition of religion:
1. Organised approach to human spirituality,
2. Narrative, symbols and expressions that give meaning, and
3. Gives meaning to the life experience and life in general.

Basically from what I've been able to understand from my courses, the main thing that defines something as a religion is if it has an organised heierarchy or not.

Even with the above ideas, what may fit with Western religious Traditions (The super three; Judaism, Christianity and Islam) may not fit the ideas of Eastern Religious Traditions (Like Shintoism, Hinduism and Indeginous Religions).

Yeah, I have to say that the definitions above don't do it for me. I can think of exceptions to most of them. Hence why the word "religion" is so difficult to define. Go figure.
-Devo

334
Quote from: Maretemheqat


The only Universal similarities that exist between Religions/ Traditions is that there is always a major event marked for Birth, Marriage, Death and transition periods from Childhood to Adulthood.

If this is the basis for what makes a religion a religion, though, then one could say that different cultures are a religion. I've always found that rites of passage are more culture specific than religion specific.
-Devo

335
According to Te Velde, they don't really know what the Set beast is. Most think it's a fantasy animal- a bunch of animals all put together. So who knows. Te Velde mentions a couple other animal forms that Setekh takes, including a type of griffin.

As to the original question, I've found that the gods have a variety of personalities- they each act differently, and as always, might act differently to different people. I don't necessarily say this is due to their vastness (though to say they aren't vast would be wrong) but just like anyone- we act slightly different to other people.

It's like saying both Jim and Pete know Johnny. Jim and Johnny are great friends, Pete can't stand Johnny. We all perceive eachother differently. So I guess I just kind of look at it from that perspective when people view a god differently.

I hope that I remotely understood the question.
-Devo

336
Quote from: Senushemi
 

The non-state rite is actually taught during the beginner's class, so even if you decide that Kemetic Orthodoxy is not for you, you will still have the information pertaining to our most basic rite as a community.  I think of it as being akin to going to mass when I was Catholic, only we do this at home, just me and Netjer.  

I figured (after hearing the general difference) that the non-state rite is the senut that I hear about pretty frequently. I have a general idea how it works, and whatnot.
Quote

Edited to add:  You won't hear back about the beginner's class much before the next one starts, so please don't feel that you're being ignored for the next month or two.  Everyone else who applies for the next class will be in the same boat.  I think it's probably just easier for them to wait and see who all wants to be in the group, and then address everybody at once when the time comes, if that makes sense?

Yeah, I wasn't expecting to heat back until a date had been solidified, and am in no rush, now that I know where to put all the paperwork in at lol.
-Devo

337
Quote from: Metitaitui
As one of the ones who contributed to the off topic-ness I apologize though I don't think I was entirely in the wrong for doing so as I was directly responding to something you had said.

I have no problem with diverting from the topic, if the discussion moves that way. So no worries.

Quote from: HehiAset

The State Rite is carried out  specifically on behalf of the Nation as a whole, not to mention the world in general,for the good of all and protection from "evil".It is something you need not concern yourself with for 2-3 years at least,of Membership should you decide to join.

Only reason I asked was because I had seen it mentioned a few times, I just wanted clarification, so that I could understand better.
Quote

Without being rude, may I suggest that it is time you called an end this "fishing trip" and tried the new Beginners' course , after which you can reject or join as your inner feelings dictate.

As I have mentioned countless times before in this thread- I have sent in my information, and am currently waiting to hear back.
Quote from: Maretemheqat

State rite is done with all of Kemet in mind, and done as per the Nisut's direction. It is a formal aspect of worship, much like high mass for the Catholics.

Non-state rite is more informal and personal. That's something you do on your own time. You're not going to have to worry about state rite much at this point until you start looking at becomming a W'ab preist, or perhaps a Sau Magician.

Good to know.
-Devo

338

Quote from: ShadowLily

Basically, what I'm suggesting is this: Get to know the House first, interact with its members, and all else will follow. If you do decide to take the beginner's course (ours is just ending so the next one should begin upon wrapping up all the administrative stuffs involved with this one, so get your application in now if you want to!) you will then have access to these other forums. If you want to speak to Hemet right off the bat, you can (with e-mail), but if you're like me and want to kind of 'get a feel' for a person first before you go that direct, Letters to the Nisut/Kemet Today/Podcasts should help.

This is my goal, just seems that no one seems to read that this is my planned course of action :-\\

Quote from: Maretemheqat

I've seen you mention HPS a few times as well. Going on that vein of logic, whould a practicing HPS focus their attention outside their own coven? Most of the answer to that is no. Coven comes first, then those outside it will come afterwards... maybe. If you're a prospect for the coven, that is.

This is a very good point, and had not thought of it that way.

Quote

She'll respond to your email too, even if it is "I question your role and spiritual authority" sort of email.

I'm sure she would, but I would feel like such an ass for asking without first trying to learn about the faith/religion myself. That's all. I don't want to be rude.
Quote from: NiankhSekhmet

But if you want Her to answer, that is going to to be the approach that is made with Hemet in this forum.  No one said you have to approve of our way of doing things at all. However, this is the way we do things - and we are not about to change.  While that might come as a bit of a disappointment for you or my answer might come off as my being flip to you with regard to your questions, that's just the way it is.

I know that things aren't going to change for me, I never said I wanted them to change. Please don't jump on my back for something that I didn't say, or was even implying.  

Quote

I am looking at the topic and the points and issues that you yourself raised and I don't see how we could have responded any other way to them. You pointed a finger at us and the way we do things in this Temple as it relates to Leadership in the Common Era. If I am not mistaken, you take a bit of issue with the approach here.  Is that not the case?  If not, then what the other issues in relation to this that you would like to discuss?  Please feel free to point them out and we will be more than happy to adiscuss them with you.

I merely wanted to know how the Nisut relates to your practice. I'm not from a large faith with a huge figurehead- it's a foreign concept to me. I have no idea what one gets out of having a large figurehead- so I was curious to know how it related to your practice.
Quote from: Shefytbast

Something to bear in mind is that a HPS/HP is typically rooted in the idea of a coven, which is a very small, close-knit group, and which is designed to be an intimate spiritual setting in which all the members function as part of the priesthood. Also, each small group, though sharing ties and lineage with others, is essentially independent in operation. The House is a rather different working model, and it probably does bear more relationship to the Catholic church and the pope than it does to the typical neo-pagan approach. Not that either is better than the other, but they *are* different.

I have to admit it's a foreign concept that I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I'm sure you can tell, it's taking time. Hence my wondering how a larger figure plays into your practices and faith. I've never had anything like that before, so it's... different to me.
Quote

For me personally...she's important to my practices because
- her teachings supply the framework for the majority of my ritual practices
- I also learn from her continually via chats, podcasts, postings, and other writings
- I work as her deputy in performing the state rite
- she is a model of service that I strive to emulate
- she is the human heart and linchpin of this faith that has given me so much

I do a fair bit of studying on my own to further develop my knowledge, and much comes to me via direct connection with my Mother and the other Names, so Hemet isn't my sole source of spiritual direction. But she's a very, very important one, and I honor the work that she's done and continues to do in building this House.

Does any of this help?

YES. This is the kind of stuff I am looking for lol.
I have a question- what exactly is a "state rite" vs... a non-state rite?
-Devo

339
Quote from: Yamen


In any case, I hope you stick around and learn a bit more about us.

I'm intending to, through the classes. However, I still have to wait for that to start back up with a new session. Patience is a virtue, as they say.

Quote from: Maretemheqat


Devo, I've been watching this thread since it started, I've watched mamny members of the House, time and again, tell you that our Nisut is involved on all levels of state related matters and there for us personally if we need it through either email, phone, live chat, what-have-you, then have watched yourself basically shy away from actually emailing her yourself to speak with her, or publically deny that basically what we've told you is bunk.

If you'll go back to the root of the thread, you'll find that initially, I wasn't so interested in seeing how active the Nisut is within her own temple. I was more interested in finding out what role she plays in everyone's life- how important she is to the members in their daily practices, etc. I just happened to mention that I was glad to see that she was more active with people within the temple itself. Then the thread took a huge jump, with letting me know that "She is! She is active!" I just can't see it because I haven't taken the classes.
You're correct, I do shy away from the email form of conversing with your Nisut. You say I don't like the avenues available, but truthfully, without that little class under my belt, this is the only method available to me- email. And really, saying "Hi, Miss Nisut lady, I question your role in your own temple! What do you have to say about this?" Doesn't come off so hot. I'd rather learn more about KO first, and get a better understanding through the beginners course, than to just run in, and run my mouth off before I have a good understanding of how the faith even works to begin with.
I'm sorry if I seem repetitive, but when I talk in a forum, if people are speaking more or less directly to me, I try to respond to as many of the threads/responses as I can without being completely redundant. I keep getting the same responses, I'll keep responding with the same things.
But it still stands- initially, this thread was intended to talk about something besides what is being discussed now.
-Devo

340
Quote from: Awetitu

I'm confused now, Devo, are you seeking to hear Hemet's (AUS) voice? You can go back to Podcast 4 if that's what you're actually looking for.  Additionally, she has appeared on History Television in their special on the Egyptian Book of the Dead, portions of which have been uploaded to YouTube (type in Tamara Siuda in the Search Bar).

The person seemed to be implying that because of the podcasts and blog that the Nisut wasn't hidden. However, if it is not the Nisut speaking in the podcasts, to me, it is like comparing apples to oranges, unless I misunderstood the reference.

Quote

The easiest way is to say hello, I guess, Devo.  From there, you can ask her questions that are pressing on your mind and see what happens.  It can be frightening and off-putting to e-mail a stranger, but it can also be very rewarding. I wish you luck in finding the answers you are seeking and I hope that some of the resources that we have pointed you at are helpful.  


I guess this depends. I'm not sure how I would start things, and would need to consider it before just randomly talking to her.

Quote from: Tanebet

I am sorry that find that there our Nisut (AUS) isn't easily approachable and of course I have no idea about your past religious experiences and of what kind of interaction you are used to. I have been Catholic before I joined the House of Netjer and as such I can only say that as Catholic I never expected to meet, talk and interact with the pope, either directly or via the internet (and I think that's how the majority feels). Here in the House of Netjer I have and had many opportunities to interact with our Nisut (AUS). I guess that's why I don't think that there isn't much interaction.

My previous religious exp. are more or less null and void. I never took active role in any religion until I found paganism, and moved into Kemeticism. To me, a religious figure should permeate all levels of their temple/church/coven/whatever. While I would never expect to meet hte Pope, I'd expect to meet my HPS or HP and get to know them. To me, religion should be a close knit experience. Not having the leader be a part of the organization at most levels causes it to fall apart, and to create misconceptions, IMO. So to me, not to see her interacting with all members and non-members gives a not so great feeling to me.
-Devo

341
Quote from: Tanebet
Em Hotep *henu*,

there are the "Kemet this week" podcasts
http://kemetthisweek.libsyn.org/

Then there is the blog "Kemet today"
http://dailykemet.blogspot.com/

IMHO one cannot really say that our Nisut (AUS) only talks in hidden forums

Senebty
Tanebet
 

The podcasts confuse me, as it sounds like a guy speaking, not a female. I only went a few back, but all I ever heard was a guy.
I've seen the daily blog before. however, in my opinion, that is not interacting with people. That's writing some thoughts out in your journal for people to read. That's the main different btwn forums and journals- the very nature of a forum is to talk amongst one another, like a non-instant chat room as it were. It's not the same.
Quote from: kathleen
Quote from: Devo
I've been chastised in the past for using HoN and KO synonymously, and honestly don't know which is which is which (lol).



this comes as a surprise to me.  it's always been *my* understanding that HoN and KO were/are synonymous, and i must say i'm curious as to who would chastise you for thinking otherwise.

I went to go find the link to it (it's an LJ comment on someone else's journal) but it's no longer accessible to me. So the owner of the journal either hid or deleted the post, so I can't quote it for you, nor can I remember who said it.
Quote from: Raheri
Hemet (AUS) is easily able to get a hold of at her email. She may not answer right away but she usually has an inbox with several hundred emails.
 

Email seems to be the best bet, but I must admit I'm uncomfortable with emailing a "random" person that I don't know, and I'm not sure with how I'd even start to talk to her. I'm thinking the best bet is to wait through the beginner's courses, and read the hidden forums, so that I can learn a bit more that way.

-Devo

342
Quote from: NiankhSekhmet


And you think that she might have done this for "Power"?

I'm not saying that was her motivation, I'm just saying, for some people, it is a motivator- good, bad or indifferent.
Quote

Well, there is a concept that is called "safe space" and some of our Membership, myself included, feels that there is great benefit to be had that is not so easily perused by those who are not members of the Temple.  I want a place where I can discuss with members of my faith things that concern us and our community. That shouldn't bother anyone, really. Do you give access to the whole of your life and privacy to the world at large? I am betting you don't. No one does.

I can understand safe space. I've belonged to many forums where there is a full members section that the avg. joe can't see. All I'm saying is, the leader of KO only talks in a hidden forum. It gives a very misleading perception.

Quote from: Sedjemes


First of all, there is no such thing as the "HoN section of KO." Kemet.org is the webpage Internet presence of Kemetic Orthodoxy which is the House of Netjer which is Kemetic Orthodoxy. These forums are just one part. Sometimes people come straight to the forums, sometimes people find kemet.org and then the forums. In either case we certainly encourage people to read kemet.org while also participating in the forums especially if they have interest in our faith and practice.

To me, they were separate websites, and I refer to them separately. I've been chastised in the past for using HoN and KO synonymously, and honestly don't know which is which is which (lol). I found kemet.org first, and thought that nothing was going on because of the lack of updates. Now that i know that those links still work, I'll probably go sign up, but when the website it out of date, I think that links are as well.

Quote from: Coty

I found information on applying very easily. All it takes is glancing around the kemet.org page. No, the front page isn't updated very often, but it's not too difficult to find relevant information. For instance, in the "Next Beginner's Group!" update on the front page about the beginner's class (which is outdated, yes) there is a link to apply right there. In link form.

As stated above, when things are out of date, I tend to think that links are as well. I'll be signing up soon, so that I can catch the next class.

Quote

Edited to add: Additionally, the beginner's class that started at the end of October (the one that I'm in now) has been the only publicly unannounced class in awhile, as far as I can see. The class before the current one was announced in the Public Announcement forum of this board.

Yeah, I noticed that after I started here (which I think was in late August) someone in a thread mentioned the new class that had just started. So I must have missed it or something.

-Devo

343
Quote from: Vethorn
Em hotep Devo!
if you become a Beginner or higher, you have access to a special forum where you can ask the Nisut questions directly and she responds.

Yes, I'm aware that there are forums that I don't have access to, that I'd need to take the beginners course to gain access to. However, despite being here for nearly 6 months now, I have yet to find where the new classes are being posted, where to sign up for them, or anything of that sort. I will admit, I find it frustrating that the websites aren't kept more up to date. Until I knew of the HoN section of KO, I honestly thought that KO had gone under, because of the lack of updates.

I'm waiting to see if and when a new class is posted, to hopefully learn more, to see if my current views and feelings change.

Quote from: NiankhSekhmet
Hotep Devo

I saw your words "chose" to be Nisut and I had to giggle. That is a common misconception from many outside of Kemetic Orthodoxy.  It is my personal observation that no one but the biggest masochist or the most undeniably stupid person on the face of the planet would ever "choose" that position.

And as for not seeing her anywhere, well our Nisut (AUS) is a part of the Parliament of World Religions. She is a regular contributor in many places, not just here. And she most definitely is not absent from Her people.  We have access to her - probably more than many modern spiritual leaders. She has absolutely no problem interacting with and being available to the People within the Faith. Everyone from Beginner's on up have access to Her.


I would like to hear further why someone wouldn't "choose" such a position. Seems to me that being the head of one of the most prominent Kemetic groups would be a lot of power, and more often than not, people like power.

I must just be missing this access due to not being a "beginner". Perhaps after I've taken the beginners course, and have access to other boards, my thoughts will change.

Quote from: Huyitu

Its unfortunate that the Nisut only interacts on her own forum, but she does so for a reason. I imagine if she tired to be on every section of our forums she wouldn’t have any time to do her other functions! That and many people, including myself, would probably be a little more uneasy about posting if they knew she chimed in regularly, I know that seems silly but I bet its true especially for beginners and guests.

 

I honestly have to say that I completely disagree with this. The places I feel the most comfortable are the places where the admin are most see-able. I get nervous when the leader of a group doesn't interact with their people on all levels. The leader of a group is the most watched and prominent figure in said group. So to me, you should strive to know as many of the people in a group as can be.

I understand that I lack the ability to see all forums, but even so, at first glance, she appears very hidden, which has always concerned me.

-Devo

344
Good bad or indifferent, most of these make her sound more like a priest than a Nisut. I guess I don't understand why she chose to be one over the other.
I'm glad to see that she seems to talk to people once they are a part of KO. I personally find it a bit disconcerting that she is the leader of a group, yet I have yet to see her anywhere here on the forums, or anywhere else. Not to mention the state of the websites and everything else. Which also was part of my confusion, in that a leader seems to be very absent from her people.

-Devo

345
How does her leadership affect you personally, though? Really, through your description, she sounds more of an HPS than a Pharaoh/King type thing. Am I to understand this correctly?
-Devo

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