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Author Topic: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters  (Read 20154 times)

Offline Aashemmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2009, 09:02:07 pm »
Quote from: Tuwer
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
If done on an adult animal it could alter the personality of your pet.

I have to agree with this statement. I remember my cat Cookies going through both the neutering and (front) declawing process... and his personality wasn't at all the same afterwards as it was going in. :(


Declawing will do that... methinks there is another thread around here somewhere on that particular subject.
Sat Sekhmet-Hethert her Bast, Meryt Shu her Sokar-Wesir.

Offline Maainakhtsen

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  • Country: 00
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2009, 06:16:46 am »
Quote from: Tuwer
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
If done on an adult animal it could alter the personality of your pet.

I have to agree with this statement. I remember my cat Cookies going through both the neutering and (front) declawing process... and his personality wasn't at all the same afterwards as it was going in. :(


Spaying/neutering alone can definitely do it too.

Even so, I have to agree that the benefits of spaying and neutering outweigh the change in personality traits. Regardless of what the vets say, you can tell the difference if you know your animal.

For this reason, I have taken on the practice of spaying/neutering as early as possible. I find that my pet develops more uniformly this way and there is no crushing moment of "omg, you're just not the same anymore, what have I done?"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Maainakhtsen »
Senebty,
Ma'ai

"A great pleasure in life is doing what others say you can't." -A Fortune Cookie

Offline Aashemmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2009, 08:11:51 am »
Spaying and neutering is, of course, also a surgery which comes with its own inherent risks. Years ago I lost a kitten who had seemed perfectly healthy, but somehow ended up dying in the spay surgery.

As with the birth-control options for us humans, none of the methods available are perfect.
Sat Sekhmet-Hethert her Bast, Meryt Shu her Sokar-Wesir.

Offline Tamiwi

  • Rev Danielle, Ordained Priest
  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2009, 08:57:35 pm »
I have to agree with Weshebut a million and one percent and I'm going to try and not get too excited, because it is something I feel very strongly about, having also worked in a shelter and being so heavily involved in rescue work as I am.

There are some "guidelines" one can follow when considering spaying and neutering, and yes that involves an early 'intervention' so to speak. But that doesn't mean surgery on a five week old kitten. A kitten must be at least two pounds in weight and, I believe, over eight weeks old. You are *not* neglecting your cat of 'adulthood.' You are making sure hormones do not develop that cause behavioral issues like spraying, heat cycles (which increase with age and can become almost non-stop until the cat becomes pregnent) and territorial aggression. Your cat still becomes an adult. They do not drive cars and reach a drinking age and marry and have children with picket fences. Heck even some adults don't do that and they are still considered adults..LoL..bottom line is don't believe you are giving your cat its 'adulthood' by keeping it in tact. The risk for cancer increases many times over once the cat goes through its first spray/heat cycle. A cat's personality is also minimally affected. Declawing can affect a cat's personality and physical attributes much, much more. If you allow your cat to go through its first cycle it will take a month for the hormones to calm down, meaning your cat will still spray, heat, etc. This may appear to be affecting its personality but, really, its just hormones settling down into a new pattern that do not result in any mood changes or behavior issues. I've gone through kitten alterations and adult alternations. I'm sorry Fern you lost your kitten due to an underlying issue. Prep work such as blood work and in depth exams will sometimes serve as early warnings, but my feeling is that it isn't the surgery--which is minimally invasive, especially for males--but some other issue that may have come up later in life. The procedure also does not make your cat lazy, fat or unmotivated and subdued. This isn't a lobotomy you're performing..just as we get lazier, fatter and less motivated to run around as we grow from children to adults, so do they.

End rant..but spay and neuter your pet..it is one less health issue to trouble them in this world where they, too, are exposed too air pollution, poor diets, lack of exercise, depression and emotional habits. I swear between the autism, OCD, irritable bowel system, diabeties, kidney stones and urinary issues I feel like I'm running more of a health clinic for people than a happy home of six cats, two dogs and one fostered kitten.
W'abet Nekhen Miu Wer
Sat Bast her Ra her Hekatawy I (AUS)
*Meryt Hethert-Sekhmet her Heru-Sa-Aset*
Fedw Diviner | Heri-sesheta Bast

Offline Aashemmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2009, 09:04:18 pm »
I always thought it was a given that companion cats and dogs should be spayed and neutered... it's how I was raised to believe, I guess. And I have seen so many intact tom cats worn out by fighting, and females by birthing many, many litters of kittens. (Think of a feline Michelle Duggar...)

My main point is that I can see the issues some people might have with it; it is a scary thing to me just because it is a surgery and there are risks anytime one goes into surgery. But I think it's worth having done, at the right age and when your animal is in good health, and of course with a trusted veterinarian.
Sat Sekhmet-Hethert her Bast, Meryt Shu her Sokar-Wesir.

Offline Sekhmetbitu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2009, 09:08:19 pm »
Quote from: Akhytsenu
Tai'a, most recent studies show that early castration has no proven negative effects on a kitten. The only effect that has been documented at all is that male cats that have been castrated early in their lives (3-8 months) tend to grow somewhat bigger than those left "wholly male" since testosterone production closes off some growth receptors as an effect of the normal cat puberty, but this doesn't seem to have any negative effects.


Considering that an intact male cat will roam, fight, and spray, I still say that neutering is better for the overall health of the cat, physical and mental. I have seen rural cats get maimed in fights with other toms (I have no idea how much FIV is spread this way, but that's another thing to consider), and queens become pregnant while they themselves are still kittens. This is what cat "adulthood" is like. Sure, this is what cats would do in the wild, but since we can give them healthier lives where they don't have to physically endure that, I think we should. (After all, we humans can start having babies around age 14, but I'm sure many of us use birth control to make sure that doesn't happen.)

I've also seen that people too lazy/cheap to properly care for a cat will get rid of him/her as soon as he/she begins howling and marking (spraying foul smelling stuff in your house, for those who have never experienced this). Now this is an owner-based problem, but if it can be remedied with a routine surgery, it means less cats in shelters or worse.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 09:24:01 pm by Sekhmetbitu »
Sekhmetbitu "Sekhmet's (Good) Charachter"

[color:#CC0000]Sat Sekhmet[/color]
[color:#990099]Meryt Mut & Khenty-Amentiu[/color]

Offline Sekhmetbitu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2009, 09:14:25 pm »
Quote from: FernGreen
In fact, as I understand it the female cat can actually develop problems if allowed to go through repeated heat cycles without bearing kittens.


I believe I mentioned earlier about how our queen Storm began licking off all her fur while she was intact. We were at a loss to figure out why, and were told it was hormonal, and to get her spayed. We did, and all her fur grew back, and now she is healthier than she has ever been.
Sekhmetbitu "Sekhmet's (Good) Charachter"

[color:#CC0000]Sat Sekhmet[/color]
[color:#990099]Meryt Mut & Khenty-Amentiu[/color]

Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2010, 04:31:23 pm »
I contemplated even making my post for this, as it may give people the wrong idea....

so a disclaimer.  SPAY AND NEUTER.

from the animals point of view, this is undesired though.  animals are hard wired to breed.  for them, without human intervention, this is their soul reason for being.  most do not live long due to harsh migrations(whose soul purpose is raising young on better eating grounds), territorial fighting, and so much of an animls natural behavior like marking territory, including your furniture and even you.

when an animal comes into the life of a human and that human alters them, many of those hard wired behaiors cease: if the steralization is done at the suggested times by many of these posters.  i would dare to go so far as to say that by steralizing, and breaking that strong core program to reproduce, you open the animal up to a more fulfilling, self serving, and even more spiritual journey.  

but if you ever sit with a tom or a female unaltered cat, or even a non fixed dog, they will tell you how important it is for them to breed.  if you sit with them long enough, you will see how it consumes them, the fighting for territory, the marking territories and keeping them established, leaving the safety of house and yard.  they sing it to you, the desire to reproduce.  and no matter how hard you try, asking them to give that up falls on deaf ears.  

but we see more with our eyes.  we understand concepts that escape them.  we know that that wandering for a mate gets them hit by cars, and takes them far from home where they can be picked up by uncoothe humans.  the fights lead to injuries and the unprotected sex to diseases as leathal as aids for humans.  so though we hear their song loud and clear, when the time comes, we do what is best.

the old tome gets neuterd, and soon he learns to sing a new song.  one of peace and tranquility like being in the blue grey place of death.  where he is not driven to find a queen and wander to mark his territory.  he has food and home and does not desire to fight other toms as his testostrone slows in his body.  he sings a new song of laps and warm houses and sitting in front of the couch.  the dog who is neutered is no longer roaming the neghborhood risking being hit by car to chase the [censored] in heat.  he too learns to sing a new song.

so if we listen to them and talk to them, they will refute it(spaying and neutering).  but the new song they sing is far more beautiful than the one before being fixed.  and the song of death at the shelters and pounds would wain as well.

so those are my odd two cents.

i had an old tom whom i neutered well into his adulthood(i found him as an older stray).  i had to give him up sadly, but he was one of the best cats i have had, as are several other toms neutered into adulthood.  his personallity and mind didn't change, just the song he danced to.

i spay and neuter all my animals even while knowing their strong desire to make babies.  i have seen too much suffering to know that it is the right thing to do.  

i envite anyone who is anti/spay neuter to do some volunteer work at a shelter.  before long you will be the proud owner of a live trap, perhaps more than two, trapping cats and taking them to free spay/neuter clinics or to low cost ones, and rounding up a good number of dogs as well.

for ferrals and strays:  remember, if you trap the kitties to have their ears clipped(a small triangle of skin on the ear is cut away) so that other humans can tell from a short distance and certainly from seeing a cat in the trap that it has already been spayed, or even neutered, and can save it from a second operation.  then take it to where you trapped it and re-release.  this is called trap, neuter and return(TNR).
Some souls wear bodies like some people wear spandex: poorly.

Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 05:25:58 pm »
Yes, definately spay or neuter your pets.  There are far too many cats and dogs living out short, painful lives in ally ways, trailer parks, and other such places.  These animals are not the native fauna.  They are former pets and their offspring.
 
Trap, neuter, return programs are wonderful things, and are worth donations of time or money.  They can't completely solve the problem though.  If people keep losing and abandoning their un-fixed animals these populations can keep refreshing themselves.  I would also say something about human overpopulation, but this is not the time or place.
Kehawi
Sa Amun-Ra her Set
Mery Serqet her Heru-wer



Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 05:33:09 pm »
oh, please say something about human overpopulation.

i have a funny story.  i was at a SNAP(spay and neuter assistance program) offsite location picking up an animal i had dropped off for surgery and was backing my truck up when two boys started running around it while i backed out.  so i stopped and told them to quit befoer i accidentally backed over them.  i then drove up to the SNAP truck and told them what had just happened and asked if they could steralize the boys if i caught them...they jokingly said, "If it fits in the cage we will neuter it".
Some souls wear bodies like some people wear spandex: poorly.

Offline Tarytenyinepu

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2010, 06:20:08 pm »
LOL There are quite a few people who really SHOULD be sterilized IMO o.o but of course free will and rights and dignity and blah blah blah...

Point is, humans have the ability to keep it in their pants and make a conscious decision as to when they want children. Animals don't have that choice, so we have to help make that choice for them. I believe that animals are people too; but like children, the parent is responsible to do what is best for their pets as if they were children.
Taryt En Yinepu "Respect for Yinepu"
Sat Yinepu-Wepwawet her (Hekatawy Alexandros)|, Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert her Djehuty her Montu
--Sau Apprentice--
"The best thing in life is to wake up tomorrow." -- Uncle Jack

Offline NiankhSekhmet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2010, 07:50:38 pm »
Em Hotep!

We are on the local animal rescue mailing list as well as a Labrador Retriever rescue list.  Our county doesn't have a shelter, so we try to donate when we can to the coffee can funds around town and my partner and I make it a habit to help where we can. My boy, Pirate, is a rescue.  Someone pretty much dumped him and he has scars and a really messed up set of hips because of probably being thrown out of a vehicle. :-/  And before we adopted him we had Buddy, who was also an elderly rescued Labrador. The only bad part we have found is that we cannot adopt more of them at a time.

Thanks for posting this, Weshebut!

Senebty!

NiankhSekhmet
Sat Sekhmet-Mut/HetHert
Meryt-Amun (Beloved of Amun)
Heri Seshta Sekhmet-Mut / HetHert

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2010, 08:31:14 pm »
www.alleycat.org has a wealth of information for anyone interested in promoting TNR (trap/neuter/return) programs in their area.  :)
Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

Offline HedebBast

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2010, 08:52:39 pm »
I just became a Foster-er for a T-N-R rescue here in New Zealand a month ago.  Thanks for the link Kath :).
-HedebBast-
Sat Bast
Meryt Sekhmet-Mut
Thankful to Set and my Akhu
Facebook|Blog

Re: Spay and nueter your pets; adopt from shelters
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2010, 12:52:09 am »
I definitely agree to spay and neuter pets, but I can't stress how important it is to adopt from shelters. I've volunteered in shelters and have seen some of the most friendly, amazing, wonderful animals there. Even the shy ones have very gentle mannerisms once they get to know you.

Quick story time: my mother and I were shopping at our local grocery store and were surprised to see a woman standing outside the store, behind a table which had 4 kennels on it. Upon inspection of the kennels, all were empty but one, which had two 4-week old kittens huddled in the back of it.

We talked to her and she, being a devoted cat-lover (and I now suspect perhaps an agent of Bast) would go to her local animal shelter and take animals that were "on the list"; basically, the animals next to be killed to make room for more animals. She worked with the shelter and would take the animals for a few days and attempt to find them homes in return for donations. She had found homes for the other 3 cats she had, but couldn't find one for the kittens because they panicked when separated and they would need to be specially fed since they were so young.

About 6 months prior to this, our cat Fluffy, aged 11 years, died due to cancer. We also had another cat, Buttercup (15 years old to date and still going) but we weren't sure about getting a new one. Obviously, as you can probably guess, we took the two kittens in and they are amazing friends and I love them dearly.

So, story aside, PLEASE adopt from shelters! You'll find a friend waiting for you.

P.S. Here's a picture of the 2 kittens
http://tinypic.com/r/n4fgpc/6
Guenhwyvar is on the left and Misty is on the right. :)
"If you ain't laughing, you ain't living."
-Carlos Mencia

 


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