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Author Topic: Leadership in the Common Era  (Read 67720 times)

Offline Yamen

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2009, 11:34:41 pm »
Quote from: Devo
To me, a religious figure should permeate all levels of their temple/church/coven/whatever. While I would never expect to meet hte Pope, I'd expect to meet my HPS or HP and get to know them. To me, religion should be a close knit experience. Not having the leader be a part of the organization at most levels causes it to fall apart, and to create misconceptions, IMO. So to me, not to see her interacting with all members and non-members gives a not so great feeling to me.
-Devo


Em hotep, Devo.

The Nisut(AUS) does interact with all levels of membership. I'm sorry that you can not see that being in the very public area of the forums. The Nisut(AUS) is very busy and there is quite a large, active membership.

In the example you give about the Pope you admit there would be no interaction at that level, and you have been receiving replies in this thread from members of our priesthood. I don't understand why this gives you a "not so great feeling."

In any case, I hope you stick around and learn a bit more about us.

Senebty.
Yamen
Yamenaset ~ sat Aset her Nisut(AUS), meryt Heru-wer

Offline HehiAset

  • Shemsu
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2009, 04:16:50 am »
Em Hotep Devo,

I have been for a number of years in the position described by Wedjabi, and it gets to be lonely and lacking of input,both every-day and spiritual, not to be with/ in contact with  people who believe in the things you do (tho not all identically of course). That is the greatest value KO has for me. Simply belonging and getting the views of others, and on occasion their support.

I stand to be corrected but I think if you read the good books about Ancient Egypt you will find, as with KO, that the Nisut (Pharaoh in latter times) and the "ultimate" High priest were one and the same - as it is with our Nisut. Clearly the "King" in CE terms could not be at prayer all day , and fail to carry out the business of running the Country, leading his armies on trips to distant lands to bring back requirements such as wood,incense, gold etc. As a requirement of these circumstances a Priesthood was created, almost the Civil Service if you like) and the High Priest deputized for the Nisut as required in the Temple.
You have also to remember that only 1-2% of the population were literate so that all these function had to be exercised by the literate few.

Kemetic Orthodoxy (KO) the Religion it the Nisut's interpretation ,from ancient texts, of the Religion as practiced in Ancient Egypt (with necessary variations to allow for the fact that we are neither Ancient Egyptians nor even live in Egypt!). The House of the Netjer (HoN) is,if you like our Church - the Nation/entity to which we all belong as believers in KO.

These are just a few of my personal views on all this, and as Vethorn suggested above you would do best, if really interested, to come along to the Beginners' Classes - which are most enjoyable and where even long-term kemeticists can learn a thing or three.!

Hope this helps a little
Hehi

Sa Aset-Serqet,her Hekatawy1(AUS!)
meryt Hethert-Sekhmet her Yinepu-Wepwawet

Aset makes you bright,and makes  fair ways of vindication against your foes,and those who would have judgment against you in the realm of the dead"

Coffin Texts

Offline Tahai

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2009, 08:48:53 am »
Em hotep, Devo.

I am a Shemsu of the House of Netjer.  I interact with, am taught by, and converse with my Nisut (Ankh.  Udja.  Seneb) on at least a weekly basis.

I have done so since the day I became a Beginner in the House of Netjer.  

Quote
To me, a religious figure should permeate all levels of their temple/church/coven/whatever.


Hemet (AUS)does permeate all levels of the House of Netjer and the Kemetic Orthodox faith.  Guests are given the opportunity to speak with the Priesthood directly here on the forums.  They are the deputies of Her Holiness (AUS), and are the first line of interaction with Her.  Guests are also given the opportunity to speak with the Remetj, Shemsu, and Shemsu-Ankh of the House of Netjer, all of whom have been instructed by Her Holiness, both directly and indirectly.

It is perhaps regretful that you feel our Nisut (AUS) is not available to the masses, but She has decided, and we have agreed, that Her time is best spent caring for our Gods, caring for the spirituality of Her people, and maintaining our Temple.  

As has been stated previously, Hemet (AUS) is available by mail and email.  She is an exceedingly busy woman, with no full-time or paid staff, so responses take a bit of time, but they will be given eventually.  

Please do not say She is unavailable to the public when you have admitted a reluctance to reach out to Her via the channels provided.

Senebty,

Tahai
TahaiBast
Daughter of Bast.  Beloved of Sobek-Ra, Djehuty, and Sekhmet-Hethert.

Self-care Sekhmet and Sobek-Ra Keeper

Feed the Ka Association (FKA)

Offline Maretemheqat

  • Rev Shauna - Ordained Clergy
  • Country: ca
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2009, 09:19:13 am »
Quote from: Tahai

Please do not say She is unavailable to the public when you have admitted a reluctance to reach out to Her via the channels provided.


Quoted for Truth.

Devo, I've been watching this thread since it started, I've watched mamny members of the House, time and again, tell you that our Nisut is involved on all levels of state related matters and there for us personally if we need it through either email, phone, live chat, what-have-you, then have watched yourself basically shy away from actually emailing her yourself to speak with her, or publically deny that basically what we've told you is bunk.

You had already made up your mind when you came here, it seems. Which is too bad. You never gave yourself or us the fair handed chance that both deserved.

~Maret
Rev. Mesetibes
Sat Heqat, meryt Djehuti her Ptah her Heru-wer
Fedw Diviner
2011 Wep Ronpet Frog Princess/
W'abet Nekhen Sha'a Sha'at Imef

Offline Devo

  • Remetj
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2009, 09:50:38 am »
Quote from: Yamen


In any case, I hope you stick around and learn a bit more about us.

I'm intending to, through the classes. However, I still have to wait for that to start back up with a new session. Patience is a virtue, as they say.

Quote from: Maretemheqat


Devo, I've been watching this thread since it started, I've watched mamny members of the House, time and again, tell you that our Nisut is involved on all levels of state related matters and there for us personally if we need it through either email, phone, live chat, what-have-you, then have watched yourself basically shy away from actually emailing her yourself to speak with her, or publically deny that basically what we've told you is bunk.

If you'll go back to the root of the thread, you'll find that initially, I wasn't so interested in seeing how active the Nisut is within her own temple. I was more interested in finding out what role she plays in everyone's life- how important she is to the members in their daily practices, etc. I just happened to mention that I was glad to see that she was more active with people within the temple itself. Then the thread took a huge jump, with letting me know that "She is! She is active!" I just can't see it because I haven't taken the classes.
You're correct, I do shy away from the email form of conversing with your Nisut. You say I don't like the avenues available, but truthfully, without that little class under my belt, this is the only method available to me- email. And really, saying "Hi, Miss Nisut lady, I question your role in your own temple! What do you have to say about this?" Doesn't come off so hot. I'd rather learn more about KO first, and get a better understanding through the beginners course, than to just run in, and run my mouth off before I have a good understanding of how the faith even works to begin with.
I'm sorry if I seem repetitive, but when I talk in a forum, if people are speaking more or less directly to me, I try to respond to as many of the threads/responses as I can without being completely redundant. I keep getting the same responses, I'll keep responding with the same things.
But it still stands- initially, this thread was intended to talk about something besides what is being discussed now.
-Devo
dA | FB | Tumblr | WP

Offline Maretemheqat

  • Rev Shauna - Ordained Clergy
  • Country: ca
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2009, 10:03:08 am »
Devo,

I've seen you mention HPS a few times as well. Going on that vein of logic, whould a practicing HPS focus their attention outside their own coven? Most of the answer to that is no. Coven comes first, then those outside it will come afterwards... maybe. If you're a prospect for the coven, that is.

What is unique about Hemet is that while she does focus on making sure that her members are attended to, from out Ka's being spritually fed, to dealing with the Names' requirements, praying for members of the faith who've requested it, teaching people in the Beginner's class as well as other assorted classes we have through the Imhotep Seminary, answering various other questions pertaining to life/ magical practice in ancient kemet, as well as running the actual physical temple itself..

Whew!

She does all that, and then will take the time to personally email me with an article written by a collegue of hers that was writen on birthing practices in ancient kemet, or speaking with me over AIM about "Surprise Kitty" and other cat related nonsense...

Plus...

She'll respond to your email too, even if it is "I question your role and spiritual authority" sort of email.

She's involved in all levels of our faith, but also leaves us room to develop our own connections with our Gods as well.

Senebty,
~Maret
Rev. Mesetibes
Sat Heqat, meryt Djehuti her Ptah her Heru-wer
Fedw Diviner
2011 Wep Ronpet Frog Princess/
W'abet Nekhen Sha'a Sha'at Imef

Offline Bastmuttepta

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2009, 10:08:42 am »
Em hotep Devo,

I know how frustrating it can be at times not being able to find the resources you hope/wish for when you come to a website. I will say, however, having had experience in many religious paths, this is the *only* faith I have ever interacted with that allowed so much direct contact with its Spiritual Leader.

E-mail can be quite intimidating at first, I understand. This is why the "letters from the Nisut" pages and the Kemet Today blog are so useful- you get to know Hemet (AUS) initially from her writings which helps you to formulate your own questions. As far as the podcasts go- KI Antybast hosts them, but Hemet is a frequent guest. You won't see her in EVERY podcast but she is in quite a few.

The entire Egyptian Book of the Dead special is broken up into parts and available on YouTube. If you'd like the links, feel free to PM me and I will provide them. Hemet contributed to this production and you can also find the clips specifically of her by doing as Awetitu said (search her name in YT).

You're right- guests don't get too much interaction with the Nisut, but she is available to all levels of membership in the House- even pre-Membership, with the beginners. As a beginner I have had access to the Nisut 24/7 through the Ask the Nisut Forum and her e-mail. She even dropped by to answer all of our questions at yesterday's beginner chat session (the second to last one for our class) and will be dropping in for our Tuesday session as well.

Basically, what I'm suggesting is this: Get to know the House first, interact with its members, and all else will follow. If you do decide to take the beginner's course (ours is just ending so the next one should begin upon wrapping up all the administrative stuffs involved with this one, so get your application in now if you want to!) you will then have access to these other forums. If you want to speak to Hemet right off the bat, you can (with e-mail), but if you're like me and want to kind of 'get a feel' for a person first before you go that direct, Letters to the Nisut/Kemet Today/Podcasts should help.

Senebty,

Laura
Senebty!

Tepta

Bastmuttepta - "Bast-Mut since the beginning" or "Bast-Mut survives"

Sat Bast-Mut her Nisut (AUS)
Meryt Sekhmet, Serqet, Mafdet her Sobek
Fedw Diviner for Bast-Mut

Offline NiankhSekhmet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2009, 10:14:38 am »
Em hotep Devo:

Quote
"Hi, Miss Nisut lady, I question your role in your own temple! What do you have to say about this?" Doesn't come off so hot. I'd rather learn more about KO first, and get a better understanding through the beginners course, than to just run in, and run my mouth off before I have a good understanding of how the faith even works to begin with.


You are right. It doesn't.  But then you are not the first to feel that or have said that here.  And to be quite honest, no one says you have to contact Her via any channels that we have offered to you thus far. But if you want Her to answer, that is going to to be the approach that is made with Hemet in this forum.  No one said you have to approve of our way of doing things at all. However, this is the way we do things - and we are not about to change.  While that might come as a bit of a disappointment for you or my answer might come off as my being flip to you with regard to your questions, that's just the way it is.  

Others outside of this Temple have contacted Hemet through those same conventional means with far more of a chip on their shoulder when they arrived, and by the end of the conversation, came out understanding a great deal more about Her, about the Faith and were certainly no poorer for having done so. Interfaith dialogue for us is important to the members of this Faith, however, there are protocols, even for us - and it does not particularly concern us if the rest of the world disapproves of them.

Quote
But it still stands- initially, this thread was intended to talk about something besides what is being discussed now.


I am looking at the topic and the points and issues that you yourself raised and I don't see how we could have responded any other way to them. You pointed a finger at us and the way we do things in this Temple as it relates to Leadership in the Common Era. If I am not mistaken, you take a bit of issue with the approach here.  Is that not the case?  If not, then what the other issues in relation to this that you would like to discuss?  Please feel free to point them out and we will be more than happy to adiscuss them with you.

Senebty!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by NiankhSekhmet »
NiankhSekhmet
Sat Sekhmet-Mut/HetHert
Meryt-Amun (Beloved of Amun)
Heri Seshta Sekhmet-Mut / HetHert

Offline Shefytbast

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: 00
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2009, 11:50:06 am »


Em hotep, Devo!

Quote
My previous religious exp. are more or less null and void. I never took active role in any religion until I found paganism, and moved into Kemeticism. To me, a religious figure should permeate all levels of their temple/church/coven/whatever. While I would never expect to meet hte Pope, I'd expect to meet my HPS or HP and get to know them. To me, religion should be a close knit experience. Not having the leader be a part of the organization at most levels causes it to fall apart, and to create misconceptions, IMO. So to me, not to see her interacting with all members and non-members gives a not so great feeling to me.



Something to bear in mind is that a HPS/HP is typically rooted in the idea of a coven, which is a very small, close-knit group, and which is designed to be an intimate spiritual setting in which all the members function as part of the priesthood. Also, each small group, though sharing ties and lineage with others, is essentially independent in operation. The House is a rather different working model, and it probably does bear more relationship to the Catholic church and the pope than it does to the typical neo-pagan approach. Not that either is better than the other, but they *are* different.

That said, the House is probaby about as intimate as one can expect a global religion with some hundreds of members to be. ^_^


Quote
Good bad or indifferent, most of these make her sound more like a priest than a Nisut. I guess I don't understand why she chose to be one over the other.



I would say that she's both priest and Nisut; Nisut is just the title that raises the most fuss. ^_^ She serves the gods as the chief priest of the temple; she also serves as a focal point around which the human side orients itself by supplying direction, spiritual teachings, a model for our behavior with each other, a channel for communicating with the Gods--not the *only* channel, certainly, people can always pray and communicate with the Gods on their own, but the primary *group* channel. She's the reason that this is a cohesive group, despite its size, its geographic spread, and all the highly individualistic people that comprise it. She does also serve as the "face" of the temple in a number of venues, from her writing and interfaith work to the mundanity of dealing with the legal issues of being a not-for-profit organization. If you consider the title of "king" as an organizational and service-oriented role, then she fits the bill perfectly.

For me personally...she's important to my practices because
- her teachings supply the framework for the majority of my ritual practices
- I also learn from her continually via chats, podcasts, postings, and other writings
- I work as her deputy in performing the state rite
- she is a model of service that I strive to emulate
- she is the human heart and linchpin of this faith that has given me so much

I do a fair bit of studying on my own to further develop my knowledge, and much comes to me via direct connection with my Mother and the other Names, so Hemet isn't my sole source of spiritual direction. But she's a very, very important one, and I honor the work that she's done and continues to do in building this House.

Does any of this help?

Senebty,

Shefyt

Rev. Shefyt | daughter of Bast, beloved of Nut, Amun-Ra, and Wenut
Heri-sesheta Bast | Divinations
Blog: Gold of the Valley, Lapis of the River

Offline Bezenwepwy

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: gb
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2009, 05:58:13 pm »
I haven't been a part of this discussion since I'm just a remetj and have had next to no interaction with the Nisut myself yet, but Shefytbast - thank you so much for giving an answer to the original question! I thought it was a pretty interesting one, but I was kind of disheartened by how sidetracked it got.
On the Temple Steps - My amulet shop.
Per-Sabu.org - More jackals than you can shake a stick at.
Big Bad Jackal - Another jackal-laden venue.

Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2009, 09:41:26 pm »
Hotep Laura,

I'd be interested in those links if that's ok.

Senebty,
Corvina
[color:blue]Child of Aset[/color]

Offline Maainakhtsen

  • Guest
  • Country: 00
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2009, 03:45:21 am »
Em Hotep Devo,

Quote from: Devo

And really, saying "Hi, Miss Nisut lady, I question your role in your own temple! What do you have to say about this?" Doesn't come off so hot. I'd rather learn more about KO first, and get a better understanding through the beginners course, than to just run in, and run my mouth off before I have a good understanding of how the faith even works to begin with.


*Giggles @ the first part* XD Yeah, it probably sounds bad in your head, but really, it's nothing new. Plus, "challenging" questions are good, imo. If someone can't respond to them, they lose my confidence pretty fast.

On your second, I just wanted to recognize your openness to understanding how it all works. Even if you decide that it isn't for you in the end, you'll get the best answers this way for sure. Until then, I look forward to seeing you around! :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Maainakhtsen »
Senebty,
Ma'ai

"A great pleasure in life is doing what others say you can't." -A Fortune Cookie

Offline Devo

  • Remetj
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2009, 09:35:42 am »

Quote from: ShadowLily

Basically, what I'm suggesting is this: Get to know the House first, interact with its members, and all else will follow. If you do decide to take the beginner's course (ours is just ending so the next one should begin upon wrapping up all the administrative stuffs involved with this one, so get your application in now if you want to!) you will then have access to these other forums. If you want to speak to Hemet right off the bat, you can (with e-mail), but if you're like me and want to kind of 'get a feel' for a person first before you go that direct, Letters to the Nisut/Kemet Today/Podcasts should help.

This is my goal, just seems that no one seems to read that this is my planned course of action :-\\

Quote from: Maretemheqat

I've seen you mention HPS a few times as well. Going on that vein of logic, whould a practicing HPS focus their attention outside their own coven? Most of the answer to that is no. Coven comes first, then those outside it will come afterwards... maybe. If you're a prospect for the coven, that is.

This is a very good point, and had not thought of it that way.

Quote

She'll respond to your email too, even if it is "I question your role and spiritual authority" sort of email.

I'm sure she would, but I would feel like such an ass for asking without first trying to learn about the faith/religion myself. That's all. I don't want to be rude.
Quote from: NiankhSekhmet

But if you want Her to answer, that is going to to be the approach that is made with Hemet in this forum.  No one said you have to approve of our way of doing things at all. However, this is the way we do things - and we are not about to change.  While that might come as a bit of a disappointment for you or my answer might come off as my being flip to you with regard to your questions, that's just the way it is.

I know that things aren't going to change for me, I never said I wanted them to change. Please don't jump on my back for something that I didn't say, or was even implying.  

Quote

I am looking at the topic and the points and issues that you yourself raised and I don't see how we could have responded any other way to them. You pointed a finger at us and the way we do things in this Temple as it relates to Leadership in the Common Era. If I am not mistaken, you take a bit of issue with the approach here.  Is that not the case?  If not, then what the other issues in relation to this that you would like to discuss?  Please feel free to point them out and we will be more than happy to adiscuss them with you.

I merely wanted to know how the Nisut relates to your practice. I'm not from a large faith with a huge figurehead- it's a foreign concept to me. I have no idea what one gets out of having a large figurehead- so I was curious to know how it related to your practice.
Quote from: Shefytbast

Something to bear in mind is that a HPS/HP is typically rooted in the idea of a coven, which is a very small, close-knit group, and which is designed to be an intimate spiritual setting in which all the members function as part of the priesthood. Also, each small group, though sharing ties and lineage with others, is essentially independent in operation. The House is a rather different working model, and it probably does bear more relationship to the Catholic church and the pope than it does to the typical neo-pagan approach. Not that either is better than the other, but they *are* different.

I have to admit it's a foreign concept that I'm trying to wrap my head around. As I'm sure you can tell, it's taking time. Hence my wondering how a larger figure plays into your practices and faith. I've never had anything like that before, so it's... different to me.
Quote

For me personally...she's important to my practices because
- her teachings supply the framework for the majority of my ritual practices
- I also learn from her continually via chats, podcasts, postings, and other writings
- I work as her deputy in performing the state rite
- she is a model of service that I strive to emulate
- she is the human heart and linchpin of this faith that has given me so much

I do a fair bit of studying on my own to further develop my knowledge, and much comes to me via direct connection with my Mother and the other Names, so Hemet isn't my sole source of spiritual direction. But she's a very, very important one, and I honor the work that she's done and continues to do in building this House.

Does any of this help?

YES. This is the kind of stuff I am looking for lol.
I have a question- what exactly is a "state rite" vs... a non-state rite?
-Devo
dA | FB | Tumblr | WP

Offline Metitaitui

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: 00
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2009, 10:30:33 am »
As one of the ones who contributed to the off topic-ness I apologize though I don't think I was entirely in the wrong for doing so as I was directly responding to something you had said.

Anyway, the Nisut is both my teacher and my spiritual mother. While I take many avenues of learning, when it comes to this faith Hemet has contributed a lot to my knowledge. She is my spiritual mother because she was the one who initiated me into this faith if you think of initiation as a re-birthing process. I have much respect for her and while I may not always agree I do take into consideration all that she says. In a way I guess you could say she is one of my role models. :)
sat Set her Djehuty meryt Ra, Heru-wer, her Hethert

Offline HehiAset

  • Shemsu
Re: Leadership in the Common Era
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2009, 10:41:41 am »
Em Hotep,
In some ways we regard ourselves, in HoN, as a Nation  - albeit as the Jews were, without a Homeland (but no pretensions to annex one).

The State Rite is carried out  specifically on behalf of the Nation as a whole, not to mention the world in general,for the good of all and protection from "evil".It is something you need not concern yourself with for 2-3 years at least,of Membership should you decide to join.

The non-state rite is one given to us by the Nisut, after Beginner's, when we decide to "stay" in HoN at one of two levels (our choice entirely) and is between each of us and our God for our benefit (tho there is a portion within it where we can pray for family, friends etc on a personal basis.

Without being rude, may I suggest that it is time you called an end this "fishing trip" and tried the new Beginners' course , after which you can reject or join as your inner feelings dictate.



Senebty

Hehi


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by HehiAset »
Hehi

Sa Aset-Serqet,her Hekatawy1(AUS!)
meryt Hethert-Sekhmet her Yinepu-Wepwawet

Aset makes you bright,and makes  fair ways of vindication against your foes,and those who would have judgment against you in the realm of the dead"

Coffin Texts

 


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