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Author Topic: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer  (Read 16936 times)

"Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« on: January 04, 2010, 10:27:53 am »
What are anyones feelings on these?
For example, Ausar as somewhat cold or distant, Set as somewhat overzealous and too "pssionate" Iset as manipulating, Djehuti as long winded or arrogant/humorless, etc etc.
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Offline Padjaiemweru

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 11:52:57 am »
That's a big topic, anything in particular that you are looking for?

and welcome to the forums, by the way :D
Padjaiemweru
The Great Ones provide (for) me
Son of Bast-Mut and Heru-wer
Beloved of Sekhmet-Hethert, Seshat-Nit-Nebthet, and Set

Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 12:16:46 pm »
No, just a general discussion of the sometimes less-than-perfect aspects of the Names.

Thanks, been here for a little while!
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Offline NiankhSekhmet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 01:08:39 pm »
Em hotep Ara:

Unlike Wesetern religious society or Western occultism, we do not view the Divine as necesarily being "perfect" or "omnipotent" or even "omnicient".  They all seem to have their quirks and likes and dislikes, etc.  

To use my own Mother as an example, Sekhmet is viewed as being unreasonable, out of hand, dangerous, unpredictable, etc. At least that is what I was told about Her before She entered into my life, and I have to admit, when She did, I was a fair bit of intimidated (if that can ever be said to be possible!)   Certainly such percieved "negatives"  may be true in certain instances - or according to legend.

I just wonder how can we as people judge the temperament of beings Who are not us? What is "negative"? What is "positive"? That would be like making a judgement on people. Example, "You know what? I think so-and-so is a whiny, high maintenence pain in the neck and I don't even want to deal with them."  How fair is that?  We may not understand certain aspects or behaviours of individual people or even individual Names of Netjer, but it's with Them, it's all Netjer. Just because we can't wrap our heads around it isn't necessarily Their fault. ;)

God can very well squish us like a grape - but doesn't because God loves us. How we deal with each of the Names is an individual thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by NiankhSekhmet »
NiankhSekhmet
Sat Sekhmet-Mut/HetHert
Meryt-Amun (Beloved of Amun)
Heri Seshta Sekhmet-Mut / HetHert

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 01:20:11 pm »
Hotep!

Thing is, our gods are in fact not just any of those. Aset may be manipulative, but she is also charming, warm and loving (so say some of her children certainly), holds folks up to high standards, is wise---

Wesir, being of fertility and growth, is also I dare say very warm when need be---and i often think of Set as dispassionate---

all opposite qualities to those mentioned.

Because Netjer to us is vast, It encompasses many varied qualities and combinations thereof. So we try not to pigeonhole the gods--tough though that is for us since human beings love labels and niches.
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 01:23:36 pm »
Ok, I feel this has been misconstrued,  (and misrepresented by me as well)no offense Niankh.

I guess "less then perfect" was a bad way to put it. I guess (maybe) a better way to put it is: what are anyones thoughts on the anthropomorphizations and humanizations of Netjer? Do you (whoever wants to answer) feel that these are truly aspects of the divine, and/or of the Names), or are they aspects we GIVE to them (or they give to themselves, or show of themselves) so that we can better communicate with them? Or are they truly aspects that are PART of them?

This is also something I have philosophically been rolling over in my mind a general way. On another thread there is talk of the "uncreated" and Apep. Or even Sekhmet is a good example. Is something "Bad" intrinsically (such as Apep, or the destruction of a large part of humankind by Sekhmet, at the creators will) or is it all a matter of viewpoint...?
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Offline NiankhSekhmet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 01:43:11 pm »
Em hotep Ara:

I do confess to getting a little bit prickly whenever someone says "negative aspects of Netjer". I do apologise for having misunderstood you. You were rather brief in your original post and so trying to ascertain what it was you were saying was difficult for me. I do tend to like specificity to an extreme. ;)

That is the 64 million dollar question isn't it?  I think every person percieves of various Names and relates to Them in a personal way. Certainly the Sekhmet I experience is not the same as any of Her divined children or beloveds etc. or those who just like or dislike Her. To sort of apply our own personal filters on Them is just that....personal. You initially used Wasir - I don't get Him....at all. I try, but that particular Name of Netjer is more foreign to me than any other Name. Why that is,  I honestly do not know. It isn't that I think Wasir is "bad" or off-putting, I just simply don't understand Him.  I am not sure that I want to at ths point. I think I will wait a bit to try to understand Him more. Otherwise, I still respect Wasir very much.

To clarify, we do not view Apep as a Name of Netjer. That particular being is considered flat-out Uncreation. You do not want uncreation. That is against Life itself.  That being is senseless, unfathomable destruction of anything that IS and that being cannot ever be rectified to anything within the Created - ever. I honestly think that there is somehow out there this mistaken idea, mostly on the part of Western Occultism and the symbolist's view - that it is somehow equated with the Christian notion of a Devil figure, etc. That is most definitely not the case. It is a completely different thing altogether.

I hope that helps.

Senebty!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 01:48:24 pm by NiankhSekhmet »
NiankhSekhmet
Sat Sekhmet-Mut/HetHert
Meryt-Amun (Beloved of Amun)
Heri Seshta Sekhmet-Mut / HetHert

Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2010, 02:03:27 pm »
Hmm, I think I might still not be hitting at exactly the idea I'm trying to get at here....

I know that we will all experience them differently, and I certainly understand that Apep is not a "Name" nor do I think equating it to the "devil" is any kind of appropriate, I mean, I KNOW what it is....


I guess this line sums it up best: Are there intrinsic personality traits of the Names?

I guess it seems your answer to that would be, no, it's in your perception of them....is that about correct?
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Offline NiankhSekhmet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2010, 02:10:43 pm »
Em hotep Ara:

I think perhaps that this is just a question of our own particular communication styles being at odds. No harm, no foul. :)

I guess I would percieve Sekhmet's personality to be extremely direct; short, sweet, to the point. No punches are pulled, no flowery speeches, no mollycoddling - and most definitely no obfuscation  of any sort. She loves children and protects them. She is a healer and upholds and enforces Ma'at. She can be very loving and She can be the model of severity, depending. WHatever it is, definitely it is at all times appropriate. I guess that would be what I would construe as Her "personality" traits. Some find some of those things unnerving.

Maybe others can comment and give their perceptions and add their commentary to the mix and it may be a little more helpful for you. :)

Senebty!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 03:06:17 pm by NiankhSekhmet »
NiankhSekhmet
Sat Sekhmet-Mut/HetHert
Meryt-Amun (Beloved of Amun)
Heri Seshta Sekhmet-Mut / HetHert

Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2010, 02:26:56 pm »
Yes, seems we're horses of different colors! LOl....

Thank you Niankh, for your input.
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Offline Tahai

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2010, 02:57:27 pm »
Em hotep, Ara.

Quote
I guess this line sums it up best: Are there intrinsic personality traits of the Names?


Do They have intrinsic personality traits?  I believe so.  Can I tell you what they are?  Nope.

Netjer is vast beyond imagining.  The pieces of Itself we are able to comprehend (Names) are vast to the very outer limits of our imagining.  How can we, as humans, possibly comprehend the intrinsic personalities of such beings?

All any one of us can tell you is how we percieve Them, and how They have been percieved by others historically.  From this we must make our best guesses about Their personalities.  

Personal gnosis is an important part of the Kemetic Orthodox faith, and I think you'll find, as you study us, that very rarely are there yes/no or black/white answers.  Quite often the answer to a question is 'both can be true.'

Hope this helps.

Blessings on your Journey.

Tahai
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tahai »
TahaiBast
Daughter of Bast.  Beloved of Sobek-Ra, Djehuty, and Sekhmet-Hethert.

Self-care Sekhmet and Sobek-Ra Keeper

Feed the Ka Association (FKA)

Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 03:15:10 pm »
Thank you Tahai! That does help, yes.
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Offline The Tai'awepwawet System

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: scotland
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2010, 10:36:38 am »
I wish I could give input on negatives, but what can I say, Wepwawet is perfect ;) Dontcha'll know it.
Tjema'awy | Sekhemib
Meset Wepwawet her (Hekatawy Alexandros)|
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Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2010, 11:40:45 am »
*grinning*

Hotep Ta'ia. Spoken well as his daughter yep yep yep :D
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Offline Khesretitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: "Negative" aspects of the Netjer
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2010, 01:42:29 pm »
I can tell you about my experience with Set, but you'll discover a wide variety of opinions about him. He's got several threads dedicated to this concept if you look about.

For me, Set is exacting. He is demanding. He is also brutally literal and will give you *exactly* what you ask for if he doesn't tell you "no" outright. Ask him for strength, for instance, and in my experience he will ensure that you have ample opportunity to develop said strength on your own.

He has never been a happy, fluffy, or humorous god to me -- at least not in the conventional sense. This unnerves some people.  The kindest thing he's ever told me is, "I'm impressed." As for the harshest thing...well...when people compare him to a drill sergeant, the comparison is pretty accurate.

His harshness earns him a negative reputation among some folks, but he doesn't seem to care or to worry about rectifying it. That bothers some people. He does all the "dirty jobs" that need doing because only he can do them. He's less a rockstar and more some kind of post-apocalyptic vigilante biker who Gets [Expletive] Done.

He's also, in my experience, a god of vast primal power and deep, cosmic antiquity. The savage, the primitive, the cold of space, and the mind-crushing complexity of the cosmic balance itself are all wrapped up in him. He can make your head hurt.

Whether that's positive or negative I couldn't say. I tend to find myself unable to deal in binaries with my First Father. He is the enemy of boundaries, after all, and will defy most any expectations you have.
Khesretitui
"My Fathers Dispel Evil"

Sat Set her Ra-Heruakhety
Meryt Heru-wer her Yinepu-Wepwawet

 


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