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Author Topic: how to dispose of offerings?  (Read 57864 times)

Offline Khesretitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2010, 08:06:43 am »
My general gut feeling is that if you won't use it or find some ethical way to use/dispose of it, you shouldn't offer it, as I've said elsewhere, I think. They seem to really deplore waste.

Offline Blissi

  • Remetj
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2010, 03:39:29 pm »
I am happy that Ma'at is helping you Jet. I am currently hoping she is backing a work issue I have, potential grievances I will have to be sending.

Thanks for the advice on foods/ offerings.

Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2010, 09:14:41 pm »
I enjoyed reading your post, Blissi, as it really made me smile.  Your love for the deities shines through your writing and your enthusiasm to please them is most apparent.  Thank you for sharing this.
Deep into the darkness, peering
     long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal
     ever dared to dream before.

     - Edgar Allan Poe, "The Raven"

Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2010, 02:50:24 pm »
Em-Hotep,

I cannot exactly recall where in this thread I saw it, for I have been following it on an off for a while, though it was mentioned that one can eat an offering of food or beverage after it had been offered to a named Netjer... I honestly feel this is very wrong; my personal opinion.  When you offer food, beverage or even items up to the Netjer or even Akhu, through the proper magic of incantations that offer has passed into their realm; into their dimension. If you were to eat that offering you made, it would be like taking that food right out of their hands; or even worse, right out of their stomach.  Even when you offer items up to the Netjer of an Akhu, it too has passed on into their realm.  So, to use or ware that item after it had been offered would be like taking it back from them.  In ancient times, in Karnak, Dendurah, Men-Nefer, Iunu, in what ever sacred temple you could think of, there were great storehouses in which all offerings of all non-perishable items were kept.  Food on the other hand, after a period of about a day had passed, was burned.  I myself, follow this same ritual: for all food and beverage items I offer towards the Netjer and my Akhu, after a day has passed I burn them in a small fire basin I have in my backyard; and as for items, like jewelry or perfume, I offer onto the Netjer of my Akhu, I keep in a decorative chest I purchased from an import store.

So by the opinion of my Ba & Ka, I do not eat or use offerings I have made to the Netjer or my Akhu. It just does not feel correct.          
Ne'sip - Thii - Mu - Pah - Ma'at
(Never Wander From The Truth)

Hk'hk - Mu - Th'n - Ib - Gh'ert - Netjer
(Keep Netjer In Your Heart Always)

Nin - Mesin'i - I'usi - Sa'ahu...
(No-one is born a sage) - IOPH

Offline Tanebet

  • W'ab (priest) - Kherep Sebau (Education Director), Semer-Wati
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Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2010, 03:13:45 pm »
Em Hotep *henu*,

actually the Ancient Egyptians did eat the offerings.
Unfortunately I do not know the English word for it but the German term for it is "Opferumlauf", I am refering to an article in The Lexikon der Ägyptologie, Volume IV, P 596 f.

Offerings were part of the payment of the priests.
There is interesting article here: http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/display/?id=5499

May I ask where you read that the food was burnt?

Senebty
Tanebet
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Offline The Tai'awepwawet System

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: scotland
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2010, 03:53:53 pm »
One of the reasons it's weird that we don't eat akhu offerings.
Tjema'awy | Sekhemib
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Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2010, 03:59:33 pm »
Quote from: Tanebet
actually the Ancient Egyptians did eat the offerings.
Unfortunately I do not know the English word for it but the German term for it is "Opferumlauf", I am refering to an article in The Lexikon der Ägyptologie, Volume IV, P 596 f.


I think the English phrase is "reversion of offerings."  Either that, or it refers to giving offerings to the Akhu after giving them to Netjer... it's one of the two.  I've seen it used for both.  Hey, maybe it means both :P

I consume my offerings, except for the small amount I offer to the Akhu which I put outside or (if I'm in close vicinity) in a cemetery.
Son of Set and Wepwawet-Yinepu.
Beloved of Sekhmet-Hethert, Heru-Wer, and Aset-Serqet.

Offline Blissi

  • Remetj
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2010, 04:37:40 pm »
I have never gotten any bad feelings or signs when eating an offering, as i feel the whole point was to share some thing together and enjoy it.

Offline Mesetibes

  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: ca
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2010, 06:31:04 pm »
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Em-Hotep,

I cannot exactly recall where in this thread I saw it, for I have been following it on an off for a while, though it was mentioned that one can eat an offering of food or beverage after it had been offered to a named Netjer... I honestly feel this is very wrong; my personal opinion.  When you offer food, beverage or even items up to the Netjer or even Akhu, through the proper magic of incantations that offer has passed into their realm; into their dimension. If you were to eat that offering you made, it would be like taking that food right out of their hands; or even worse, right out of their stomach.  Even when you offer items up to the Netjer of an Akhu, it too has passed on into their realm.  So, to use or ware that item after it had been offered would be like taking it back from them.  In ancient times, in Karnak, Dendurah, Men-Nefer, Iunu, in what ever sacred temple you could think of, there were great storehouses in which all offerings of all non-perishable items were kept.  Food on the other hand, after a period of about a day had passed, was burned.  I myself, follow this same ritual: for all food and beverage items I offer towards the Netjer and my Akhu, after a day has passed I burn them in a small fire basin I have in my backyard; and as for items, like jewelry or perfume, I offer onto the Netjer of my Akhu, I keep in a decorative chest I purchased from an import store.

So by the opinion of my Ba & Ka, I do not eat or use offerings I have made to the Netjer or my Akhu. It just does not feel correct.          


See, IMO, this makes no sense to me. At all.

In my experience, Netjer wants us to live and go about our daily lives and Netjer also does not want us to go without. Netjer also wants to participate in many of the things we do in our daily lives. Religion and life should not be separate, as it was not seen as separate in antiquity. Given the very nature of Heka, the act of simply doing is usually enough for most Names.

Food offered to Netjer can be consumed so long as it's alright with Them in the first place. If They're happy with it, then why should it go to waste? Once They've recieved it, They've taken what They want from it, so They give it back to us for consumption. It's a way to reflect the cycles that exist that They have created.

Food sharing with the Akhu, on the other hand, is different. While Netjer blesses what we give to Them because it was in fact They that created it, the Akhu are spirits that have passed West. We the living feed the Akhu with our prayers and our offerings. They take from our offerings to feed their kau so that the kau can still exist. The Akhu did not create our food, so eating what we offer them is..well, innert. The spirit within it is gone.

Same goes for non-food offerings. If it's alright with Netjer that you wear/ share it, then it should be worn/ shared. For example I've offered chocolate to my Mother, and She in turn wanted me to share it with my co-workers. So I did. Turned out to be the best day ever at work.

Either way, burning offerings might be alright, but it depends on the Name you've offered it to. My Mother, for example, prefers me to "recycle" what I offer to Her if I won't use it. Flower and food offerings (That I don't eat and that aren't meat or dairy) get put into the composter, which I then use to feed my flower and herb beds. Paper gets recycled. Jewelry is rarely offered and when it is, I know it's not for me, so it goes to the person in specific that it's intended for. For them to wear.

To me, not to use the offerings that They've given to us is almost insulting.

But that's just my thoughts.

~Maret
Rev. Mesetibes
Sat Heqat, meryt Djehuti her Ptah her Heru-wer
Fedw Diviner
2011 Wep Ronpet Frog Princess/
W'abet Nekhen Sha'a Sha'at Imef

Offline Iaityinepu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: au
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2010, 08:21:49 pm »
I can't remember my sourcing (will go and hunt it down), but in AE there was evidence that the food was offered to Netjer in the morning, and then at the end of the day that same food had some offered to the Akhu and the rest was taken home by the priests to share with their families as payment for their dedications to/care of the shrines.
Sat Yinepu-Wepwawet Meryt Satet her Amun-Ra
Iait (with an i, not an L): Adoring

I offer affordable guidance readings, distant healing and developmental courses.  Please take a look - Readings by Caroline

Offline The Tai'awepwawet System

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: scotland
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2010, 08:39:36 pm »
I do have a source, and idd, food that was offered to the akhu was nommed by the ka-priests (priests who were in service to that tomb) and their families and such.

That we don't is a purely modern thing, unless somebody has any information that the Egyptians got turned off the idea at some point?
Tjema'awy | Sekhemib
Meset Wepwawet her (Hekatawy Alexandros)|
Meryt Serqet, Bast, Ra-Heruakhety, Hethert-Amenti, Nit-Nebthet-Seshat, her Sekhmet-Hethert
𓃧-𓆫𓃠𓅊𓋀𓋌𓁴
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Offline ubenet

  • Guest
  • Country: us
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2010, 09:10:32 pm »
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Food on the other hand, after a period of about a day had passed, was burned.


even if there were evidence of this, wasting food is really not a practice i'd revive. your mileage may vary.
ubenetsenu - "two appear shining"
sat Sekhmet-Mut her Khonsu
meryt Wesir her Serqet-Aset

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Offline Iaityinepu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: au
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2010, 09:56:38 pm »
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
I do have a source, and idd, food that was offered to the akhu was nommed by the ka-priests (priests who were in service to that tomb) and their families and such.

That we don't is a purely modern thing, unless somebody has any information that the Egyptians got turned off the idea at some point?


Hrmm I just went back and checked (my source was: Rosalie David's Handbook to Life in Ancient Egypt), and actually, you're right.  According to that book, Ancient Egyptians did eat the Akhu offerings too.  I asked Hemet about this (it's in the AtN Archives, a thread I started called "Re-offering of food") and she was the one that told me that the priests would leave a portion of the food at the Akhu Shrine.
Sat Yinepu-Wepwawet Meryt Satet her Amun-Ra
Iait (with an i, not an L): Adoring

I offer affordable guidance readings, distant healing and developmental courses.  Please take a look - Readings by Caroline

Offline The Tai'awepwawet System

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: scotland
Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2010, 10:40:07 pm »
Leaving a portion doesn't explain why we can eat none of it at all. On Hemet's advice, no less.

Like we said. Modern practice. At least without a counter. (mine was Death and the Afterlife in AE by John Taylor)

I think what can be taken from this is, if you feel that the dead consuming the energy makes it unfit for you to eat, don't eat it. If you feel that they're spirit so they eat the spirit component, and you're physical/alive so you eat the solid component, and that's fit for you to eat, also fine (I suspect this was the reasoning behind the Ancient practice).


We are vaguely in the not-comfortable camp, so we don't consume it. If  we come to be okay with it, we will alter our practices accordingly.


~Isha
Tjema'awy | Sekhemib
Meset Wepwawet her (Hekatawy Alexandros)|
Meryt Serqet, Bast, Ra-Heruakhety, Hethert-Amenti, Nit-Nebthet-Seshat, her Sekhmet-Hethert
𓃧-𓆫𓃠𓅊𓋀𓋌𓁴
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Offline Tanebet

  • W'ab (priest) - Kherep Sebau (Education Director), Semer-Wati
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Re: how to dispose of offerings?
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2010, 12:19:20 am »
Quote from: Setkheni_itw

I think the English phrase is "reversion of offerings."  Either that, or it refers to giving offerings to the Akhu after giving them to Netjer... it's one of the two.  I've seen it used for both.  Hey, maybe it means both :P
 


Thanks, that seems to be the term
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

 


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