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Author Topic: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?  (Read 25814 times)

Offline Kadu

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: br
Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2011, 09:35:02 pm »


Quote from: Senytmenu
I would say it would be against Ma'at to try to be someone you aren't.
  That's what I think, too. Beautiful words Senytmenu
Son of [color:grey]Wepwawet-Yinepu[/color] &  [color:red]Hethert-Sekhmet[/color], Beloved of [color:blue]Djehuty[/color] & [color:navy]Nut[/color]


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Offline Linda

  • Remetj
  • Country: gb
Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2011, 05:01:45 am »
I agree with everything that has been said. Netjer made us the way we are, and we should be true to ourselves. To go against it, in my opinion, is to go against Ma'at and Netjer.
You don't know what you can do until you try.

Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2013, 05:07:26 pm »
I think it is important to try to see how moral values change throughout history, and also to try to understand WHY certain values were held by societies as a whole.

One core value has always been LIFE, and I can see why many people in earlier times would see homosexuality as something negative. Homosexuals simply have no natural means of procreation. I think one aspect that is very often forgotten when discussing homosexuality is the fact that many things we take for granted today - healthcare, old folks homes etc - were nonexistent. Families had to rely on their offspring to provide for them when they got older. Having a homosexual relationship would mean giving up a family, raising children and to be frank, some much needed help around the house/farm when you got old yourself. There have been rulers not only of ancient Egypt, but elsewhere, that are thought to be homosexual, but all of them raised families nonetheless.

I personally see a strong correlation between a growing population, welfare and acceptance of homosexuality, and while it may not be the whole truth I do believe that it's an importance piece of the puzzle.
'Let me be satisfied seeing You, Oh Living Aten!'
- adapted from the Hymn of Tutu, Chamberlain of the Two Lands

Offline Vaalea

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: 00
Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2013, 05:27:30 am »
Quote from: Meritaten
Homosexuals simply have no natural means of procreation.


Actually, no. That's just plain trans*phobic and trans*misogynic, as well as intersex phobic. People that are homosexual (or any form of non-hetero orientation) come with all sorts of bodies, it would be greatly appreciated if you didn't spread things that are outright wrong as this.

(Please note: This note isn't personal and I do not mean to be 'harsh', it's just that particular belief that simply does not work and is born out of prejudice, something I do not believe we need to perpetuate as having discussions of issues that are to this day so filled with bias already, and very very personal, as connection of orientation and one's spiritual practice. I certainly do not mean harm, it's harmful *stereotype* I'm defensive against, here, not individual.)

Quote
I think one aspect that is very often forgotten when discussing homosexuality is the fact that many things we take for granted today - healthcare, old folks homes etc - were nonexistent. Families had to rely on their offspring to provide for them when they got older. Having a homosexual relationship would mean giving up a family, raising children and to be frank, some much needed help around the house/farm when you got old yourself.


That's still though conflating social issues and institution of family? Like I see your point, but basically saying 'not having children of one's own' is the same as not being useful to society in other ways (or even helpful in *raising those children*) just contradicts the evidence, modern day and before.

Quote

I personally see a strong correlation between a growing population, welfare and acceptance of homosexuality, and while it may not be the whole truth I do believe that it's an importance piece of the puzzle.


Agreed on that, that perhaps being more socially secure may lead to less inherent prejudice and hate, less focusing on 'the other'  and driving people perceived as Them (as opposed to Us) away for a sense of 'protection'.

Though again, that's just Western centric. Societies as China have had *long* time acceptance of what say US activists have achieved in past few *decades*.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Vaalea »
Vaalea, Shemsu em Kemet.
Sa Wepwawet-Ra her Bast, KO Sa Serqet.
Friend to Khepera and Sobek-Ra.

Tarot reader for Wepwawet & Serqet.

Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2013, 09:05:48 am »
Hi Vaalea! I am well aware of those facts, I was just trying to simplify things to get my point across - hope nobody is offended! I am myself an ex-homosexual and transperson so I understand where you're coming from ;)

And I am not saying that being homosexual would mean being totally useless, I am just proposing that not directly participating, in most cases, in bringing new life into this world would be one cause for some people to reject homosexuality - as opposed to feeling that the sexual orienation itself is outright immoral, even if it so described. I believe that many older values are based on pragmatism and practical issues, rather than purely ideological.
'Let me be satisfied seeing You, Oh Living Aten!'
- adapted from the Hymn of Tutu, Chamberlain of the Two Lands

Offline Arefsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2013, 11:47:19 am »
Em hotep!

I have to agree with Senytmenu here. I don't think Ma'at, or any of the other Netjeru, would be happy about Their children burying their feelings and pretending to be something that they aren't.

I'm a lesbian and couldn't imagine being any other way now. For a long time I supressed what I was feeling and just told myself that I must be bisexual because there was no way I could be gay. How wrong I was.

Anyway. I hope to, one day in the future, get married and have a family. I've never felt from the Netjer that homosexuality is wrong. If anything, I firmly believe that they helped me to come to terms with it :)

Senebty!
"Enclosed by Two"
Sat Bast her Wepwawet-Yinepu
Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert her Heru-sa-Aset

Offline Mesetibes

  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: ca
Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2013, 05:39:29 pm »
Quote from: Meritaten
I am myself an ex-homosexual and transperson so I understand where you're coming from ;)


Em Hotep,

I wonder, could you clarify this for me? I know that homosexuality is not mutually exclusive to Transperson Identity, but I want to make sure I understand what you are saying correctly.

Are you saying that you are an Ex-Homosexual; As in no longer someone who finds interest in members of the same sex- and that you now identify as a Transperson?
Or are you saying that you are no longer homosexual or a transperson?

Just wanting to clear up confusion on my part.

Senebty,
~Maret
Rev. Mesetibes
Sat Heqat, meryt Djehuti her Ptah her Heru-wer
Fedw Diviner
2011 Wep Ronpet Frog Princess/
W'abet Nekhen Sha'a Sha'at Imef

Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2013, 06:03:45 pm »
This is were we get into tricky territory - I have for most of my adult life (feels funny to say that at 27) identified myself as a gay male. However, for the last couple of years I have come to some realizations about myself, and am well on my way to becoming a heterosexual woman ;)

So my sexual orientation has always been towards men, but I am a MTF transexual and therefore can no longer describe myself as a homosexual :)
'Let me be satisfied seeing You, Oh Living Aten!'
- adapted from the Hymn of Tutu, Chamberlain of the Two Lands

Offline Senusenu

  • Shemsu
Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2013, 08:02:45 pm »
Quote from: Meritaten
This is were we get into tricky territory - I have for most of my adult life (feels funny to say that at 27) identified myself as a gay male. However, for the last couple of years I have come to some realizations about myself, and am well on my way to becoming a heterosexual woman ;)

So my sexual orientation has always been towards men, but I am a MTF transexual and therefore can no longer describe myself as a homosexual :)


Em hotep Meritaten,

Makes perfect sense to me. I ID internally as FTM, but outwardly still present as female, as it makes life easier for me, and I'll likely never transition. I have, however, been able to come to terms with myself, and variably ID both as genderqueer and fluid, moving away from strongly identifying with either side of the gender divide. I am simply a person that likes stereotypical masculine and feminine hobbies and aspects.

I do really dislike being called "girl" or "woman", but I make due. I am much happier with myself pulling both aspects of my identity together and accepting being difficult and no longer actively striving for transition.

I am always happy to see fellow trans and queerfolk making their lives much happier, and wish you good luck with your journey through life. :)

As to the original poster to the thread, KO has absolutely been the most accepting of people within the GLBT spectrum, both the members and the UPG reports. I remember at one time there being speculation whether certain Names "collect" more GLBT members than others, but I don't think it was ever verified in anyway. That said, my father Wepwawer-Yinepu (and His other aspects) have a lot of outspoken GLBT members here on the boards. My other father, Set, also has a little bit of an ambiguous sexuality according to some stories about Him. Both names have always been very accepting of me, and I've never sensed the least bit of disapproval.

Personally, and I feel it's likely somewhat widely agreed upon, that sexuality that isn't harming others (so anything not involving rape, molestation, manipulation, and so on) is of little interest or consequence to the Names. Unless your own actions are hurting you in some way, physically or psychologically, then it's not something that I see the Names caring much about. They are, afterall, above these silly mortal issues, and with Their own consorts and various other encounters, I just don't feel it's something They would ever proscribe from us.

What I write is in itself my own UPG, but I have confidence in it considering how widely similarly thoughts have been stated and the threads and people asking these questions have been supported.

I don't know about anyone else, but any god who hates me or hates any aspect of me that isn't harming anyone around me is no god I have any interest in being around. Aside from being agnostic (I consider myself both agnostic and Kemetic), it is one of the major reasons I rejected the religion of my family. If a god exists and hates who I am or how I love, then I will happily stand in opposition to them.

Luckily, the only gods that matter to me are Kemetic, and have no issues with who I am.

Well, that got much longer than I expected :)

Senebty
Senu
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 08:03:48 pm by Senusenu »
sa Wepwawet-Yinepu her Set, mery Khonsu, Heru-wer her Bast

Senusenu "Companion of Two" Divined 01/21/09, named 01/28/09

Eljay

Offline Mesetibes

  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: ca
Re: Is Homosexuality Against Ma'at?
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2013, 12:03:38 am »
Quote from: Meritaten
This is were we get into tricky territory - I have for most of my adult life (feels funny to say that at 27) identified myself as a gay male. However, for the last couple of years I have come to some realizations about myself, and am well on my way to becoming a heterosexual woman ;)

So my sexual orientation has always been towards men, but I am a MTF transexual and therefore can no longer describe myself as a homosexual :)


Em Hotep,

Thank you for clearing that up. I wanted to make sure I understood you correctly.

~Maret
Rev. Mesetibes
Sat Heqat, meryt Djehuti her Ptah her Heru-wer
Fedw Diviner
2011 Wep Ronpet Frog Princess/
W'abet Nekhen Sha'a Sha'at Imef

 


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