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Author Topic: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?  (Read 32457 times)

Offline Wesirempet

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« on: July 31, 2010, 02:18:54 pm »
I hope this question is alright to ask here.

In this faith what is your view on other cultures Gods and Goddesses? Do you see them as true, just not part of your chosen pantheon? Do you see them as manifestations of you Gods? Or do they not exist?

If anyone believes in many different deities across the planet I would like to ask: If I was in England and watching the rain outside, would I be seeing Tefnut or would I be seeing the native rain Goddess?

Thank you,
Olivia
𓅭𓏏𓁐𓊩𓁹𓀭𓌻𓏏𓏌𓏏𓇯𓉡𓁥𓏣𓏏𓁴
Sat Wesir, meryt Hut-Hor-Sekhmet.

Offline Aashemmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2010, 02:40:29 pm »
From what I have seen and learned here, it seems to vary according to the individual. I know there are some here who also work with deities from other pantheons. I am among them and I personally view them as very real and powerful beings. For instance I work with the Norse God Thor quite a bit.

But I always put my Mothers (Sekhmet and Bast) first. Agreeing that one's Parents will alwayshave priority, if you will, is part of becoming a Kemetic Orthodox Shemsu.

In my life, on a practical level this means I have gone over this with Thor and it seems to be an okay arrangement with Him as well as with my Mothers. Some Names and Deities would seem to be more possessive than others. I also suspect that with my Mother Sekhmet being a fierce Name, she and Thor are understanding of one another on some level.
Sat Sekhmet-Hethert her Bast, Meryt Shu her Sokar-Wesir.

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2010, 02:41:20 pm »
Hotep

It is always good to ask questions :)

I have heard from those who are also Asatru, following Norse gods, for example, that there are similarities between some of those gods and the gods of Kemet. We also have some that are Hellene as well as Kemetic. But Odin is not Ra, and vice versa, and Loki is not Set, and vice versa; Demeter is not Aset and vice versa, etc etc-similarities aside.  

That being said, we see other gods as valid for those who follow and worship them. Just as the ancient Egyptians did. We respect that some can follow more than one pantheon--as Kemetic Orthodox we deal with the gods of Kemet. That does not mean we see other gods as true or not true--they are just not our gods.

As Kemetic Orthodox, when I see the sun, no matter where on earth I am, I greet Ra. I don't greet Apollo or Helios. When I feel the wind I greet Shu, not Aeolus. I could tel you that if you feel rain no matter where you are that is Tefnut, but that is my context. If you do not worship Tefnut, of what value is it if I tell you it is Tefnut. You would have to believe in Her existence. The same would be true, I think, for any other gods of any other culture.
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Offline Wesirempet

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2010, 02:52:05 pm »
Thank you, your answers were really helpful :)
I do wonder, Aashemmuti, you reminded me, as you said that your parents should have first priority. If I never go through the RPD will I never know who they are, or will they show themselves to me eventually?
 
 
𓅭𓏏𓁐𓊩𓁹𓀭𓌻𓏏𓏌𓏏𓇯𓉡𓁥𓏣𓏏𓁴
Sat Wesir, meryt Hut-Hor-Sekhmet.

Offline Aashemmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2010, 02:59:57 pm »
As I understand it, according to Kemetic Orthodox belief, your parents can only be truly revealed to you by Hemet in the RPD rite.

Sometimes it turns out They have been making Themselves known to you before hand (or some have only one Parent). But in my opinion, unless you have Hemet (The Nisut AUS) perform the RPD, you will never know for sure.
Sat Sekhmet-Hethert her Bast, Meryt Shu her Sokar-Wesir.

Offline Wesirempet

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 04:02:47 pm »
And why is it that only Hemet can do such a Rite? Why would the Netjeru show themselves to you only through her?
Thank you :)
𓅭𓏏𓁐𓊩𓁹𓀭𓌻𓏏𓏌𓏏𓇯𓉡𓁥𓏣𓏏𓁴
Sat Wesir, meryt Hut-Hor-Sekhmet.

Offline Tanebet

  • W'ab (priest) - Kherep Sebau (Education Director), Semer-Wati
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Country: 00
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 04:13:46 pm »
Em Hotep Amuntihera *henu*,

a similar question was just asked on the Zep Tepi mailing list for the beginner class. Did you see that email? As a beginner you should be on this mailing list. Kai-Imakhu Sedjemes wrote a great answer to that question.

The RPD is a rite of passage for the members of the House of Nether and as such it is performed by our spiritual leader.

The RPD is not about telling anyone what their connection to God is. One can have a connection to any God, not only the Names which appear in your RPD. And at no point it is mandatory to undergo the RPD

Senebty Tanebet
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tanebet »
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 04:19:22 pm »
Hotep

No. This is not about Netjeru showing Themselves only through the Nisut.

This is about a rite of passage, singular to the Kemetic Orthodox, whereby one undergoes a divination performed by the Nisut the leader and founder of our faith, so we can know who the very specific gods are that Created us. Like baptism or Eucharist for Christians, this is a rite of passage that one does NOT have to undergo. One can have an extremely deeply profoundly richly rewarding fullfilling spiritual life as a Kemetic Orthodox and never ever undergo the RPD.

Why? Because the RPD does not tell one that one must only interact with the gods disclosed in the RPD. Just as one interacts with many people throughout one's life besides one's biological/legal parents, so one interacts with thousands of gods, not just the gods of one's RPD. We believe that the gods approve of the RPD and in fact that They requested the Nisut offer it to those who wish to undertake it. Just as Christians believe baptism and Eucharist may be necessary (although one could be a devout Christian, IMHO, and not undergo those.

Hope this helps!
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Offline Wesirempet

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 04:35:01 pm »
Thank you for your answers!
And Tanebet I am on the mailing list so I will go and check it, thanks!
𓅭𓏏𓁐𓊩𓁹𓀭𓌻𓏏𓏌𓏏𓇯𓉡𓁥𓏣𓏏𓁴
Sat Wesir, meryt Hut-Hor-Sekhmet.

Offline Khesretitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 06:59:26 pm »
I practice both Shinto and Kemetic Orthodoxy, and I see no conflict. Shinto is, historically speaking, a belief system that Plays Well With Others, and there are a great many similarities in terms of offerings, ancestor veneration, ritual purity, and the like.

Additionally, I find that my relationship with the Kami and the Netjeru is overlapping and interwoven. For example, Set and Susanowo no Mikoto are distinct entities, but they share an essence in many ways that, in my very much personal experience, springs from the same "stuff." Understanding the one enhances my understanding of the other.
Khesretitui
"My Fathers Dispel Evil"

Sat Set her Ra-Heruakhety
Meryt Heru-wer her Yinepu-Wepwawet

Offline TahekerutAset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2010, 08:41:33 pm »
Everyone sees the world through their own eyes.  Rain to me is Aset while someone else could see rain as Yemoja.  I don't think this depends on a place necessarily.  

I'm Kemetic Orthodox, but I also worship Heathen gods and some Orisa.  They are all very distinct and very different.  

Other cultures' gods and goddesses are exactly that, someone elses's gods.  I'm not going to tell someone their gods don't exist just because I don't worship those same gods.  I think it would be uncivil and impolite to do so.
TahekerutAset "Aset's Jewel"
Sat Aset
Meryt Nebet Het, Wepwawet, Sekhmet-Mut, Ra, Mut,  Bast-Mut, Shu, Tefnut

Website:  Fiercely Bright One

Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 10:28:18 pm »
Em-Hotep-rh'ekh,

I have a rather 'controversial' view on this matter; and I apologize in advance if I offend anyone: for this is not, and never is, my intention when sharing my thoughts.  I am Kemetic, and always have been; the Netjer are my gods.  I, like most here, accept the existence or worship of other deities and gods that are not mine; though, this is where I begin to raise questions.  Some people like to say that they are accepting of other gods, but their gods (the Netjer, in this case) come first.  Others like to say that the gods of different religion who represent the same concept or ideal are not equal: one is greater then the other; As well, others like to throw the idea around that while one god represents this, the other of the same representation does not.... this is where I become confused.

I understand we all as humans posses different ideas about the same thing (Some people like to believe that Italian food in America is 'true' Italian food when a person living in Italy knows it has been altered for American taste... :) )  The same goes for this view in Faith; This is how I see it:

If you believe, like I do, that Ra is the Sun, then he is the Sun; while at the same time you accept the existence of other gods like Hielos, Apollo, Huitzilopochtli, Tezcatlipoca, Tonatiuh and Kinich Ahau, just to name a few.  Now, In my opinion, there are several different ways to accept this idea, but only one can be the true acceptance.  

1: You believe and know that Ra is the essence and Netjer (god) of the Sun.  At the same time, you accept the existance of the other gods of the world assosiated with the sun: In conclusion, Heilios, Apollo, Kinich Ahau ex. are simply other names for Ra.

2: You Know and believe that Ra is the essence of the Sun, and at the same time you accept that other gods associated with the sun exist and are potent gods. Ra is the Sun, but... Helios, Apollo, Tezcatlipoca, Kinich Ahau ex. also make up the sun.  Without each, the sun would not exist.

3: You know that Ra is the essence of the Sun.... but only over Egypt.  In Greece the sun is the essence of Apollo; in Rome/Italy the sun is Heilos, in the Mexican Yucatan the sun is Kinich Ahau, in northern Mexico the sun is both Huitzilopochtli and Tezcatlipoca.

4: You accept that Ra is the true essence of the Sun, and no other gods are the sun; thus, only Kemetic gods exist.

Now, I suppose you are wondering how I view this; and it is not a straight answer.  I do believe in the first option I presented in which the other gods of the world are the Kemtic Netjer with other names.  Though, I will say I also accept part of opinion two; and I present this: In the Yucatan Jungle of southern Mexico, the rain feels like no other rain you will ever feel.  The Mayans called the rain god Chac-Mol, and his essence is nothing like Tefnut who I have a strong conection with. On top of this, the Mayan had another god assosiated with rain: Quetzalcoatl. Quetzalcoatl's essence when it rains is unique in comparision to Chac-Mol and even Tefnut.... Though, in the northern Mexican desert, where I reside for most of the year, the rain there does not feel like it does in the Yucatan, and I can clearly feel Tefnut; not the Aztec god of rain who is known as Tlaloc.

I strongly believe we all need to take a look, not only within ourselves, but at the universe. I believe the Netjer are Ma'at; they are truth. Though, can the Netjer have a 'split-personality' like a human can?  

Tefnut is rain; though, is Quetzalcoatl, Chac-Mol and Tlaloc just another side of Tefnut? I say yes....      
Ne'sip - Thii - Mu - Pah - Ma'at
(Never Wander From The Truth)

Hk'hk - Mu - Th'n - Ib - Gh'ert - Netjer
(Keep Netjer In Your Heart Always)

Nin - Mesin'i - I'usi - Sa'ahu...
(No-one is born a sage) - IOPH

Offline TahekerutAset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2010, 12:09:43 am »
Quote from: Imsetra_Imsety
Em-Hotep-rh'ekh,

Tefnut is rain; though, is Quetzalcoatl, Chac-Mol and Tlaloc just another side of Tefnut? I say yes....  


I view deities as having identity.  I think equating Kemetic gods with other gods in that manner is akin to calling someone Mrs. Husband's Name--it's basing someone's identity completely on someone else's.  

It isn't that rain is Tefnut. It's why is rain associated with Tefnut.  How does rain express Tefnut?  

« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 12:13:23 am by TahekerutAset »
TahekerutAset "Aset's Jewel"
Sat Aset
Meryt Nebet Het, Wepwawet, Sekhmet-Mut, Ra, Mut,  Bast-Mut, Shu, Tefnut

Website:  Fiercely Bright One

Offline Wesirempet

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2010, 07:44:19 am »
 Imsetra_Imsety, I really appreciate how fully you answered my question and love how deeply you have contemplated the nature of netjer - it is very refreshing.

You raise some very good points that I need to question myself with.
A friend told me that if I was in any part of the world, so long as I looked at the rain and thought of Tefnut it was she who would manifest. What do you think of that?

x
𓅭𓏏𓁐𓊩𓁹𓀭𓌻𓏏𓏌𓏏𓇯𓉡𓁥𓏣𓏏𓁴
Sat Wesir, meryt Hut-Hor-Sekhmet.

Offline Bekamuti

  • Shemsu
Re: A question about how this faith sees other Gods?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2010, 08:19:36 am »
I haven't seen anyone else saying it (or I just haven't read this thread as thoroughly as on should do pre-posting), but does anyone here sees deities of other culture as Names of Netjer as well?

Because, I do.
Netjer may be the Kemetic name of the Big God Company® the netjeru are part of, but I think other deities are part of it as well, though maybe not as much of cultural and religious value the Kemetic gods are to us Kemetics.

At least, that's how my mind handles monolatrism.
- Bekamuti

Sa Nebt-het & Hethert
Mery Mut & Wepwawet.

 


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