collapse collapse

* Donation Status

74%
Current donation status as of December 21, 2021 = $1,851.48 of $2,500 or 74%
Donate!

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 38
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

Author Topic: Wesir and the Apis Bull  (Read 5211 times)

Offline Satsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Wesir and the Apis Bull
« on: February 02, 2011, 08:40:32 pm »
Em hotep!

I have Wesir-Sokar specifically as my first beloved and just recently, as in the past hour, connected Him to the Apis Bull via a statue I found that we both went O_O at. I was wondering what the connection between Wesir and the Apis Bull are. I know that it was used as a kind of omen and was held in high regard, but why is it linked so closely to Wesir? Traditionally, I thought that the Apis Bull was only related to Ptah, yet Wesir-Sokar is strongly attracted to the statue I just mentioned. What does the Sokar aspect have in relation to the Apis Bull outside of Wesir? Also, in what ways would the Apis Bull's link to Wesir benefit us as an offering to Wesir on a shrine? Any and all information or UPGs would be greatly appreciated.

Senebty and much love,
Satsenu
Satsenu, Daughter of Two
I am the daughter of Wepwawet(-Yinepu) and Bast, beloved of Wesir-Sokar and Amun-Ra.

Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 09:49:11 pm »
Em-Hotep-Rh'ekh,

I personally have not associated with Seker (Sokar) much, and I do not know all that much about him as a Netjeru. Though, I do know a little: This is just my two-cents.

Seker's name is hard to define, and he does not have too may writings on him; or that he appears in. He does however appear in the Book of the Dead and the Pyramid Texts, though he is usually always linked with Usir or Ptah: or all three as Ptah-Seker-Usir. He is sometimes thought to be linked or associated with re-birth or resurrection. This is probably one of the leading factors as to why he is linked to Usir or Ptah. Also, sometimes Seker is noted as being a craftsmen of silver, producing silver bowls?, and is links him to the great craftsmen Ptah.

With Apis, he was highly worshiped in the Ptah cult, you are right with this. It was believed that Apis's mother was a virgin and was impregnated by Ptah himself: thus Apis is his son. I suppose with the cult of Ptah in Men-Nefer having links to the Usir cult Apis becomes seemingly connected to Usir. Bulls along with cows were also used to pull plows for farming, so I would imagine this linked the animals to Usir, lord of agriculture. Seeing as each spring the new growth on the fields was seen as a 're-birth' of the plants from the previous year, Usir-Seker becomes linked to all this as well.

So... I suppose your Meri Usir-Seker liked the statue of the Bull for any one of these aspects/reasons. I cannot say how this would translate to offerings in shrine to either Usir, Apis or Usir-Seker? I suppose it would have some benefit, though I cannot say for sure.

I hope this information was at least a slight help to you. :)

Senabty-Rh'ekh      
Ne'sip - Thii - Mu - Pah - Ma'at
(Never Wander From The Truth)

Hk'hk - Mu - Th'n - Ib - Gh'ert - Netjer
(Keep Netjer In Your Heart Always)

Nin - Mesin'i - I'usi - Sa'ahu...
(No-one is born a sage) - IOPH

Offline Satsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 04:43:51 pm »
As far as my knowledge goes, the Apis bull wasn't considered the son of a god, but an incarnation of a god when it appears with certain markings symbolizing luck and good omens. Thank you kindly for the information though!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Satsenu »
Satsenu, Daughter of Two
I am the daughter of Wepwawet(-Yinepu) and Bast, beloved of Wesir-Sokar and Amun-Ra.

Offline Tanebet

  • W'ab (priest) - Kherep Sebau (Education Director), Semer-Wati
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Country: 00
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 12:03:09 am »
Em Hotep *henu*

here what Bonnet's Lexkon (p. 46ff) says about the connection of the Apis bull and Wesir.
* One of Wesir's epithets was "Bull of the West"
* both have lunar connections (Moon was seen as Bull of the sky)
* both were connected with fertility
* there was a form of Apis-Wesir and a form Wesir-Apir, which later dvelopped into Serapis
* Diodor said that the Ba of the moribound Wesir entered the body of the Apis bull (the Apis as apparation of Wesir's Ba)

(sorry, nothing especially about Sokar)

Senebty
Tanebet
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Offline Satsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 09:04:01 am »
Thank you for that Tanebet!
Satsenu, Daughter of Two
I am the daughter of Wepwawet(-Yinepu) and Bast, beloved of Wesir-Sokar and Amun-Ra.

Offline Satsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2011, 09:37:23 am »
*gently bumps* Curious kitteh is curious. >^_^<
Satsenu, Daughter of Two
I am the daughter of Wepwawet(-Yinepu) and Bast, beloved of Wesir-Sokar and Amun-Ra.

Offline Tanebet

  • W'ab (priest) - Kherep Sebau (Education Director), Semer-Wati
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Country: 00
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2011, 09:49:01 am »
The LAGG lists a syncretized form Ptah-Sokar-Osiris-Apis, which has been found in a Hotep-Di-Nisut formula in the Serapeum.

And it lists a Ptah-Sokar-Apis-Osiris, found in the Serapeum as well.

But I think that in both cases Apis is connected to Osiris as either Apis-Osiris or Osiris-Apis

and there is one record found on an ushabti of the Apis bull which mentions Apis-Sokar-Osiris
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 09:57:41 am by Tanebet »
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Offline Taysatwesir

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2011, 07:00:22 pm »
Ptah-Sokar-Osiris-Apis! :D Now I know why I had this urge to buy Ptah-Sokar-Wesir an Apis Bull.
Taysatwesir
This daughter of Wesir
sat Wesir as Ptah-Sokar-Wesir
meryt Mut, Ma'ahes, Bast, and Hethert-Sekhmet

Offline Naisenu

  • Guest
  • Country: ca
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2011, 07:37:40 pm »
I have "The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt" by Richard Wilkinson, and looked up the section on Apis (pg 170-172). The section that might be of interest to you, reads thus:

Quote
After his death Apis fused with Osiris, becoming the composite god Apis-Osiris or Osirapis (and later, in Hellenistic times, the anthropomorphically depicted god Serapis). In this context the living Apis bull itself was sometimes called the ba of Osiris, and the process of assimilation with other deities also led to the composite Osiris-Apis-Atum-Horus. In some funerary texts, Apis was said to thresh the grain in the afterlife, but it is usually his power and virility which are tied to the deceased -- so that in the Pyramid Texts the deceased king claims the surging power of the bull's phallus as one of the ways in which he is said to be able to rise up to the heavens (PT 1313).

Offline Tanebet

  • W'ab (priest) - Kherep Sebau (Education Director), Semer-Wati
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Country: 00
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2011, 09:28:48 pm »
And I just found this, found in the Serapeum as well: "Oh Apis-Sokar, great god, Lord of the Shetayet-shrine, I have come, I am the Sem priest and king's son!"
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 09:05:45 am »
Hotep!

Hart's Dictionary entry on Sokar provides the following, which might be of interest:

 From the Old Kingdom Sokar was seen as a manifestation of Osiris slain by SETH in Nedyet...Equally possible, however, is an explanation of the god’s name connecting him with a ritual of the fertility of the earth: SESHAT in the temple of Sety I at Abydos calls Sokar ‘cutter’, from his holding the mattock to break into the first clod of Nile silt...In the Pyramid Age Sokar is manufacturer of the royal bones and in the Book of the Dead he fashions the silver bowls for the idea of moulding objects as an artisan Sokar becomes associated with the mixing of aromatic substances to provide the unguents so important in Egyptian ritual. His craftsman image made the identification with Ptah, also a god of artisans, occur as a smooth transition. As Sokar of ‘Rosetau’or ‘mouth of the passages’ (i.e. into the Underworld) he was the patron deity of the necropolis to the west of Memphis. He is ‘lord of the mysterious region’ and is prominent in the decoration of Theban royal tombs. This emphasises him, like Osiris, as a resurrected god of the dead, of unrestricted movement and power as his epithet
 'great god with his two wings opened’ indicates.


Hart (as does Wilkinson) also talks about how the Apis bull is linked to the king, and just as the king becomes Wsir at death, according to the Pyramid Texts, so too, according to Hart, does the Apis bull become Wesir.
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Offline Satsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Wesir and the Apis Bull
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 08:20:46 am »
Em hotep!

I really appreciate everyones answers! Whenever I start to think about asking Wesir-Sokar about it face to face, I always get the immediate response of, "Just roll with it!" LOL I just wanted to share my new apis bull statue on my Wesir-Sokar shrine. I hope you all like it!

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af42/Satsenu/002-1.jpg?t=1298643051

Senebty and much love,
Satsenu
Satsenu, Daughter of Two
I am the daughter of Wepwawet(-Yinepu) and Bast, beloved of Wesir-Sokar and Amun-Ra.

 


* Board Stats

  • stats Total Members: 3506
  • stats Total Posts: 304406
  • stats Total Topics: 21165
  • stats Total Categories: 9
  • stats Total Boards: 126
  • stats Most Online: 955
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal