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Author Topic: Yinepu  (Read 15490 times)

Yinepu
« on: February 06, 2011, 02:27:39 am »
I apologize if I have already asked this question, I cannot remember.

This month I am trying to learn about Yinepu and draw closer to him. Last month I had a great time with Amun-Ra and learned a lot.

Can you give me some pointers on how to draw closer to Yinepu?
Son of Amun-Ra, beloved of Sutekh and Heru-sa-aset!

Seper-en-Amunra: This is my Kemetic Name. It means Appeal to Amun-Ra

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Offline Tanebet

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Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Re: Yinepu
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2011, 09:00:49 am »
Perhaps it would help to use his real name; with that i mean the correct spelling (transliteration and pronounciation).

Yinepu, as a lot of people call him here, is a wrong transliteration.

The signs of his name are:
a single reed, a water ripple, a square and a quail chick (and the hieroglyph that tells us it is the god).
The reed is an "i" (or the "a").
The water ripple is the "n".
The square is the "p".
And the quail chick is the "w" (or the "u").
So that would make "Inpw" in transliteration and "Inpu" in pronounciation. "Anpu" is also possbile.

Yinepu would mean there would have to be 3 reeds at the beginning of his name, for 2 reeds are "ii" which makes "y" and then the 3d for the "i". Since there is only 1, it is incorrect.
The "e" between the "n" and the "p" is something that is only used for easier pronounciation, and in this case not needed since "np" in the middle of word can be pronounced easely.  

Since in Ancient Egypt names were believed to hold a lot of power, it is of the utmost importance, in my humble opninion, to use the most accurate and correct name as we can, especially if we want to use it in a ritual or meditation.

I hope this will help you :)

And if you want to know more about him, feel free to ask :)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 09:05:29 am by Satsemyt »
Hemet-Netjer Inpw

Offline Tanebet

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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 09:21:19 am »
Em Hotep Satsemyt *henu*

the Nisut once explained why the word is pronouced Yinepu and not Anpu.
One of the reasons given was that there has to be a vowel between n and p, the Ancient Egyptian language has no diphthongs and only certain consonants can follow each other without a vowel between them; np cannot occur. And that the name had three syllables and not two

Senebty
Tanebet
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Offline Bezenwepwy

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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 09:23:45 am »
Quote from: Satsemyt
So that would make "Inpw" in transliteration and "Inpu" in pronounciation. "Anpu" is also possbile.


Except that you are wrong as well.

The following is a cut/paste from my journal, so apologizes if anybody reading this has read it before!

"I learned some very interesting information this evening about the pronunciation of 'Inpw.' Many kemetics spell it out as Anpu or Yinepu. (And then also proceed to stop using 'Anubis' of course because it somehow becomes inaccurate.)

But actually, apparently the 'w' on the end isn't actually at all indicative of where it is pronounced in the word. Inpw is, very likely, one of the words where the 'w' comes before the final consonant. (It follows 'nbw' (gold) in this regard, which in Coptic is 'NOUB' or similar. The -w ending is not a marker of plurality in these situations.) So really, Inpw is probably best pronounced something like, 'Yanoupe'!

And if the 'y' goes subtle and the 'p' rounds out to a 'b'... well, it doesn't become difficult to see where 'Anubis' comes from. I just find it to be really interesting. I never have thought the Greek pronunciations were going to be that dreadfully out there, which I (have also) demonstrated with Wepwawet/Ophois. Turns out that most likely Anubis isn't far off either.

Inpw (Egyptian) = ANOUP (Coptic) = Anoubis (Greek) = Anubis (Latin)"

Edit: This does mean that "Yinepu" is far from being an ideal transliteration of it as well, but then KO does not equal AE. Yinepu is more like a "for KO use" variation of his name developed specifically to be such.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 09:28:06 am by Bezenwepwy »
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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 10:05:57 am »
Fascinating Bezenwepwy, thank you. :)
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Re: Yinepu
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 10:16:52 am »
Even if that were true, I am not aware of the fact that only certain consonants can follow each other without a vowel, so it very well might be, then it would be "inepu"... the "Yi" is just not in the glyphs.
Hemet-Netjer Inpw

Offline The Tai'awepwawet System

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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 10:41:59 am »
I think the "yi" is just used to romanise what is a difficult concept to put into the language we're used to. Not to transliterate glyphs. Otherwise there would be no "e", for starters.

This is one of the only times you'll catch me defending the KO spelling of inpw, enjoy it :P
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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 10:55:13 am »
Very interesting indeed :) I love language and glyph discussions :)

In my, perhaps limited, view, we should use the names as original as we can, which means according to Middle Egyptian language.

Since we cannot be completely certain on how they actaully pronounced it, I use the guidelines taught with the Middle Egyptian language. As a source I use, amongst others, Faulkner and Gardiner (they rock !).

Therefor I look at the literal glyphs, what they literally mean or stand for, and then only to add an "e" when i cannot pronounce it otherwise.

Which makes the transliteration "Inpw" sound like "Inpu".

Edit:
according to one book (from the university here), an "i" at the beginning of a word is pronounced as a "j" (that is in Dutch, in English it would most likely be "y" sound). So that would make transliteration "inpw" and pronounciation possibly "yenpu" or "yenepu".
Still the "Yi..." would not be accurate, since the Y would then be the first "i" and the second "i" is not in the glyphs (there is 1 reed).

Personally I always write his name as it is transliterated, "Inpw" :)

However, to have a name for KO-use which is not completely accurate in accordance with the glyphs, seems strange to me.


Hemet-Netjer Inpw

Offline The Tai'awepwawet System

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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 11:20:41 am »
Again. The "yi" issue is purely to help people pronounce it. It has nothing to do with what is or isn't present in the glyphs.


I would normally agree with only adding an e when it's difficult to pronounce, however until I have studied for long enough to know how Egyptian language worked, for all I know that (np together) could have been very strange and incorrect to them. Frankly, though, I prefer the fact that the whole issue is easily resolved by moving the w/u back.

I do believe we should stay close to the original names, but (as evidenced by Bezen's work) the "original names" include information from coptic eras not just basic ME hieroglyphs.
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Offline Bezenwepwy

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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 11:25:31 am »
Keep in mind that just because something is spelled in a certain order, it does not mean it is pronounced in that order. Egyptians were really keen on words making a tidy visual block. This did mean letters got switched around and it is why a more correct 'pronunciation order' spelling of Inpw is actually Inwp.

All of this really only becomes an issue when trying to develop a version of the name that is more phonetic based. For me personally, "Anpu" does look like its trying to suggest a pronunciation and it simply isn't correct.

This is why I stick to Anubis most often in both writing AND speaking. XD
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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 11:28:25 am »
That the "Yi" is purely for pronounciation makes sense.

Perhaps I am just to much of a nitpicker when it concernes the beloved Glyphs :)

I tend to look to the transliteration and then pronounce it as close to that as I can. But of course my base for that is my own language... in Dutch the "np" sound is no problem for instance.

Edit:
What I respond too when I see "yinepu" is that it is written not as it is transliterated.
Pronounciation wise "Yinepu" might be more accurate as i first thought, but I have been taught that you write the transliteration, not the pronounciation.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 11:33:19 am by Satsemyt »
Hemet-Netjer Inpw

Re: Yinepu
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 11:33:27 am »
Quote from: Tutankhheru
I apologize if I have already asked this question, I cannot remember.

This month I am trying to learn about Yinepu and draw closer to him. Last month I had a great time with Amun-Ra and learned a lot.

Can you give me some pointers on how to draw closer to Yinepu?  


Sounds like a lovely plan!   I have found that the easiest way to know any of the Netjeru is to just start chatting. Yinepu is quite easy going in this way.  Light a candle or incense, share a chocolate bar. Don't work too hard on the details. He won't mind.  He likes things that come from the heart.

As for what to call Him.. I call Him Yinepu and He hasn't corrected me yet :) So do whats comfortable for you and He'll let you know if He prefers something else.

Hope you have a fascinating and fun month!

Senebty,
Waret

Offline Sedjemes

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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 11:55:44 am »
EM hotep!

Just for clarity, especially for our guests and newer members, we have no "rules" or requirements here about the useage of names. No matter how strenuously anyone studies, we will never truly know how an ancient Egyptian in Lower Egypt or Upper Egypt, in the first dynasty through the 30th dynasty, actually sounded when saying the names of Wesir/Osiris/Ausar, or Hethert/Hathor, or Isis/Aset/Auset/Iesee, or Yinepu/Anpu/Inpu/Inpw/Anubis etc. So if anyone wants to refer to/address any particular god by a pronunciation that seems best, you are free to do so.

As a simple "standard" that only means that's what is used in state ritual references, we go by the divine names as transliterated by the Nisut in Her capacity as degreed (MA) Egypto-linguist thanks to the University of Chicago/Oriental Insitute and her years of study/contacts with Egyptologist/linguists and her MA in Coptic language. She has referenced the different versions from Old Kingdom through Coptic (Middle Egyptian being the most commonly written about but there are earlier and later versions as well.) My own personal UPG, and I do mean *personal* as far as my Mother Aset is concerned is that she is less angsty about whether or not someone refers to her as Aset or Isis or Auset or Eesee than I might be. Not because there is any lack of importance credited to names, but for being distracted from other important things. That's just my own stuff for myself.
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Offline Naisenu

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Re: Yinepu
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2011, 12:29:46 pm »
Hey guys, I don't think He cares what we call Him. So long as we're respectful and loving each other. Without a time machine to go back to Ancient Kemet and speak to the ancients themselves, we can't know for certain how things are pronounced.

The Great Jackal really doesn't care if He's called Anubis, Anoup, Inpu, Anpw, Inpw, or Yinepu.

Just love Him and love each other.

 


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