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Author Topic: Mut in syncretization with other Names  (Read 9084 times)

Offline TabauAmunet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: 00
Mut in syncretization with other Names
« on: February 16, 2012, 10:41:43 am »
Em hotep all!

My Mother is Mut in Her form of Amunet.
There's tons of Sekhmet-Mut, Bast-Mut, etc kids out there! (/wave to my siblings!)

So, for all you -Mut kids, do you experience the 'normal' version of the other Name without Mut as well? Such as working with both Bast and Bast-Mut.

Do you work with the 'normal' version of Mut and the other Name as well?
Do you just work with the 'normal' version of Mut, the 'normal' version of the other Name, and the syncretization as well, for example?

If so, what kind of differences do you find between Them?

Senebty,
~Tabauamunet
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 08:20:28 am by TabauAmunet »
Senebty!
~Tabauamunet
Child of Mut-as-Amunet, beloved of Sekhmet-HetHert, Seshat-Nit-NebtHet, Bast, Amun-Min, Nefertem, and Bawy
Fedw diviner for Amunet/Mut

Offline Bastmuttepta

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 11:43:34 am »
*waves back* :D I think you mean syncretization? Synchronization always makes me think of synchronized swimming... hehe.

Well, I'll start off with the normal disclaimer- this is my personal view, YMMV, etc. etc. take it as you will. ;)

As a child of Bast-Mut, I consider all of the Bastlings and Mutlings to be my siblings. My Mother IS Bast- and She IS Mut, all at once. Sometimes more Bast shines through, sometimes more Mut - But She is wholly *both*, at once, interwoven.

"Vanilla" Bast is warm, nurturing, loving, and filled with joy- but She is no coddler, and will not hesitate to give you a firm smack to the back of the head if you need a wake up call. She is fiercely protective of Her children.

My Mom is all of those things, but She is ALSO Mut. She is, in every respect, a Queen. She sets very high expectations for Her children to meet, and seems to want more than anything for them to realize how much they are worth and to meet their full potential. She is a Mother. She is also warm, but again- doesn't coddle. She is always there for you as a shoulder to cry on, but won't let you "wallow" - She'll just encourage you to brush yourself off, get back up, learn from your mistake and grow onward.

Sometimes, Mom presents Herself more "Bast." Sometimes, She presents more "Mut." Either way, She is always both, whichever bits are coming through most strongly at that time.

So, the differences I really see - Bast is Bast, Mut is Mut. Bast-Mut is Bast, Bast-Mut is Mut... but Mut is NOT Bast-Mut, and Bast is NOT Bast-Mut. ...Hopefully that makes sense ^.^;

For what it's worth, I do find a lot of similarities between Sekhmet-Mut and Bast-Mut. Peri and I visualize our Mothers virtually the same a lot of times, as I've never really gotten the brain-image of Mom as a domestic cat. She usually comes as a Lioness with the double crown (which Sekhmet-Mut appears as also), though also at times as a black panther. This is probably why I usually connect more strongly with icons of Sekhmet than that of Bast.

To throw another wrench in your gears, I also have vanilla Sekhmet in my lineup. I get Her as heat, blazing heat, like the fires of passion and inspiration. The type of fire that rises up in you and drives you. Bast is comforting warmth like basking in the Sun, but Sekhmet is pure heat.

They sometimes look very similar in my head (Bast-Mut and Sekhmet)... though in the rare occasion They appear together, it's always a black lion-headed woman (Bast-Mut) with the double crown, and a gold lion-headed woman (Sekhmet) with the Sun on Her head. I never get Sekhmet as the black lioness - only Bast-Mut.

I hope that jibber-jabber all makes sense... xD My head is soupy with kitties. ;P Don't even get me started on how interesting Mafdet makes things...

Senebty!
Bastmuttepta - "Bast-Mut since the beginning; Bast-Mut survives; Bast-Mut perpetuates" | Sat Bast-Mut her Nisut (AUS) Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert, Serqet-Aset, Mafdet, Sobek, her Ptah-Sokar-Wesir | Fedw Diviner for Bast-Mut

Offline Arienihethert

  • Tawy Bak
  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 06:33:00 pm »
Quote from: TabauAmunet
So, for all you -Mut kids, do you experience the 'normal' version of the other Name without Mut as well? Do you work with the 'normal' version of Mut and the other Name as well? Do you just work with the 'normal' version of Mut, the 'normal' version of the other Name, and the syncretization as well, for example?

Yes. :D

Quote
If so, what kind of differences do you find between Them?

They're there, but they can be very subtle and I don't know that I could effectively describe any of them today (sorry, brain fried from school). I don't think about them much because they don't so much matter to anyone else. That, and I gave up thinking too hard about Mom a long time ago. ;) I get along pretty well just sticking to "yes, ma'am" and keeping at whatever she's got me working on.
Look out the window. And doesn't this remind you of when you were in the boat, and then later that night you were lying looking up at the ceiling, and the water in your head was not dissimilar from the landscape, and you think to yourself Why is it that the landscape is moving but the boat is still?

Offline TabauAmunet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: 00
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 03:42:11 pm »
Awesome, thanks for the replies!

(@Arieni My head is also fried from school lol.)

I experience both Mut and Amunet, which is strange for me lol. I have no real experience with syncretic Names, only aspected Names and Mother, so I've become terribly curious. :D

Sometimes Mother is more Queen and sometimes She is more Creatrix. In either form She is a Queen, but Her demands and preferences seem to differ vastly enough that I consider Them to be seperate at times.

Mut is very regal and stately in my experiences with Her. A very "yes ma'am" "no ma'am" type of feeling that I should be very proper. Very concerned with making sure roles are fulfilled properly. She strikes me as a strict Mother figure that is very defensive of Her children. Mut also has fairly expensive tastes.

Amunet is a Queen but a little more laid back, a very settled and comfortable Queen with few doubts for the respect She garners and deserves. She expects respect, but doesn't demand the same air of me. Amunet loves more meaningful offerings from me, more creation and activity offerings than Mut does.

I recently ran across some information on the internet relating to "From Fetish to God in Ancient Egypt" by E.A. Wallis Budge, describing Nit-Amenet, Ahat-Amenet, HetHert-Amenet, and Aset-Amenet, so that got me thinking! If Nit-Amenet is in fact a syncretization of Mother, I think I've run into Her on one or more occasions. And to throw some more wrenches into people's gears, I'm also a beloved of Seshat-Nit-NebtHet. So Nit-Amenet would be fascinating to me! (Not to mention he mentions Amenet as bisexual! More fascination!! -- Page 171 mentions all this info in Google books)

@Tepta: I also experience Sekhmet as a firey, almost scalding heat that leads to determination. Much like the concept of walking across coals to get to the other side lol. She is also different than Bast to me heat-wise. Bast is more of a cat-that's-been-laying-in-your-lap-and-you-didn't-notice-for-3-hours type of warmth to me.

Has anyone ever been approached by a syncretized Name rather than a 'vanilla' version of the Name? Perhaps running into Sekhmet-Mut before Sekhmet?

How about non-Mut syncretizations?

How about other syncretic Names? Do you also run into the individual Names as well? What about situations like Tanebet with multiple 'versions' of a Name in a line-up?? How similar/different are They for you?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 04:57:49 pm by TabauAmunet »
Senebty!
~Tabauamunet
Child of Mut-as-Amunet, beloved of Sekhmet-HetHert, Seshat-Nit-NebtHet, Bast, Amun-Min, Nefertem, and Bawy
Fedw diviner for Amunet/Mut

Offline Naisenu

  • Guest
  • Country: ca
.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 09:47:49 am »
...
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:44:07 pm by Naisenu »

Offline Niheri

  • Shemsu
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 11:09:10 am »
Em hotep, Tabau,

One of my Beloveds is Amun_Ra, and for me He is the "Syncretised" Amun-Ra. I have never been able to "distill"? the Amun from the Ra. For me, He is Both/And. Not Amun, not Ra, but Amun-Ra. It's really hard to explain, (mostly, I don't need to - He is Who He Is, and that's how I experience Him : ).

That was either really confusing, or possibly, slightly helpful! (I hope, helpful?).

Senebty,
Ni.
Daughter of Wepwawet-Yinepu

Beloved of Set and Amun-Ra.

Offline Nityinepu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 12:50:42 pm »
I pretty much agree with everything that Tepta has stated.  Bast-Mut is Bast with Mut's queenly edge.  Unlike her however, I get the distinct image of a large, black housecat wearing the Double Crown when I think of Bast-Mut.  I, too, have Sekhmet in my lineup, and while Sekhmet has no problem with pawsmacking me when I get out of line, Bast-Mut tends towards giving me the 'you know better' look.  You know, that look your mom used to give you when you were a kid and you did something stupid, but she let you because sometimes you just have to make your own mistakes?  Yeah.  THAT look.
Nityinepu AKA Niti Yinepu's
Sat Yinepu-Wepwawet, meryt Sekhmet-Hethert, Bast-Mut, her Khnum
Sau Apprentice-in-waiting

Offline Taji

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 01:53:48 pm »
Quote from: Naisenu
In my experience, the Mut aspect of Bast-Mut makes Mama more like Sekhmet.


That's interesting.  :)  For me, I've experienced the -Mut (or something, anyway) make Her feel very close to Hethert.  There was a time when it was hard to tell my Mother and Hethert apart.  

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic, but not so shockingly they're really hard to get into words.  Royalty is definitely very important.  

But Mama is awesome.  And so are all the -Muts.  And Mut.  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Taji »
Taseddjebbastmut,
Daughter of Bast-Mut
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, & Aset

Offline Bastmuttepta

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 02:13:01 pm »
I think I should clarify that, for me, Bast-Mut's Mut aspect doesn't make her more like Sekhmet- rather, that Bast-Mut and Sekhmet-Mut have a lot of similarities. Having both Bast-Mut and Sekhmet in my lineup, if Those two were similar it would be VERY confusing for me. x.x

Where vanilla Bast is more headslapping in the behavior correction department, when Her Mut aspect comes forward She definitely is more the type to give you that "...Really. You done now? Still think that was a good idea?" ;P

I think the way Peri and I have put it in the past is the Mut aspect makes them less... "action-y" and more into "directing." For an analogy... I guess I could say that vanilla Bast or Sekhmet would be the warrior that fights the battle, whereas Bast-Mut and Sekhmet-Mut would be the royals who order the attack. In Their youth, They would have been the ones to rush into battle as well, leading the attack, getting their paws dirty, etc... but now that They are responsible for the entire kingdom, They lead with wisdom and experience. ...if that makes ANY sense to anyone else besides me. ^.^;;;
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tepta »
Bastmuttepta - "Bast-Mut since the beginning; Bast-Mut survives; Bast-Mut perpetuates" | Sat Bast-Mut her Nisut (AUS) Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert, Serqet-Aset, Mafdet, Sobek, her Ptah-Sokar-Wesir | Fedw Diviner for Bast-Mut

Offline TabauAmunet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: 00
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 02:46:17 pm »
I'd love to hear from more people about more and different syncretized Names!
Quote from: Niheri
I have never been able to "distill"? the Amun from the Ra. For me, He is Both/And. Not Amun, not Ra, but Amun-Ra.

Fascinating! It's nice to see it's a little different for everyone and different Names.

Quote from: Tepta

the Mut aspect makes them less... "action-y" and more into "directing." For an analogy... I guess I could say that vanilla Bast or Sekhmet would be the warrior that fights the battle, whereas Bast-Mut and Sekhmet-Mut would be the royals who order the attack. In Their youth, They would have been the ones to rush into battle as well, leading the attack, getting their paws dirty, etc... but now that They are responsible for the entire kingdom, They lead with wisdom and experience. ...if that makes ANY sense to anyone else besides me. ^.^;;;

This makes perfect sense to me! It also makes sense with Mut being a Mother Name, and Her Queenly aspects.

That's actually kind of where I was headed when pondering the difference between Mut and Amunet. Amunet is Queen-like, but She also has a very tactical and dangerous side - perhaps this is where the Amunet-Nit connection would come in? Or perhaps Amunet is kinda like Mut-Nit? I had a dream about that idea, but it's mostly fuzzy. Too bad, too, it was a great philosophical dream.

Mut usually tells me what She wants or directs me to what needs to be done, whereas Amunet kinda leads me to what She wants and shows me a little more directly. For example, Mut might ask for/tell/demand a nice offering, while Amunet would gesture to it and leave it up to me. Mut seems to like being 'spoiled' with very nice, or many, offerings whereas Amunet prefers offerings from the heart to quality or quantity.

Although Amunet feels older than Mut, She acts more youthful and active. Think springy, playful yet strict, grandma. She also seems to be more 'there' if that makes sense. Active is a very good word for it, actually. Perhaps Mut is an 'older' (as in age, not time) version of Amunet? Similar to Nefertem being a young Tem?

Sometimes Bast and Mut seem to collide for me, so I can kind of understand what you mean about Her being more directing. Bast on Her own has very few demands or wants from me, She mostly just seems to watch over me.
Senebty!
~Tabauamunet
Child of Mut-as-Amunet, beloved of Sekhmet-HetHert, Seshat-Nit-NebtHet, Bast, Amun-Min, Nefertem, and Bawy
Fedw diviner for Amunet/Mut

Offline Rev. Sema'a

  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 06:52:24 pm »
Quote from: Tepta


Where vanilla Bast is more headslapping in the behavior correction department, when Her Mut aspect comes forward She definitely is more the type to give you that "...Really. You done now? Still think that was a good idea?" ;P

I think the way Peri and I have put it in the past is the Mut aspect makes them less... "action-y" and more into "directing." For an analogy... I guess I could say that vanilla Bast or Sekhmet would be the warrior that fights the battle, whereas Bast-Mut and Sekhmet-Mut would be the royals who order the attack. In Their youth, They would have been the ones to rush into battle as well, leading the attack, getting their paws dirty, etc... but now that They are responsible for the entire kingdom, They lead with wisdom and experience. ...if that makes ANY sense to anyone else besides me. ^.^;;;


This sums up everything I was going to say pretty well, actually. I see Sekhmet as very focused on actively working to correct imbalances and injustice, where Sekhmet-Mut is working to maintain balance and justice. She would be more in the governmental/legislative/judicial branch of the Netjeru, where Sekhmet would be more law enforcement.

She once told me, "I am Sekhmet Who knows better; I am Sekhmet who has learned more."

I definitely get Her as more likely to say "Well, now that you've done that, do you really think it was necessary/smart?" or "Are you done being unproductive yet? Good, now time for the real work."

I do have Bast as a beloved, but I think I get a very different Bast than most of Her children do; I get a very music/song/rejoicing oriented Bast, rather than the "devouring Lady" that many people seem to see. So I can't really compare Her to Bast-Mut very well.

Senebty,
Sobeq
Sema'a Ankh Hen'a Semawy (Sobeqsenu)
W'ab Nekhen Ib Imau-sen
Priest of Wepwawet & Sekhmet-Mut, Beloved of Bast, Nut, Khonsu & Nebt-het
Heri-sesheta Wepwawet | Fedw Diviner
revdgallo@kemet.org

Offline Bastmuttepta

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 07:09:44 pm »
Quote from: Sobeqsenu
This sums up everything I was going to say pretty well, actually. I see Sekhmet as very focused on actively working to correct imbalances and injustice, where Sekhmet-Mut is working to maintain balance and justice. She would be more in the governmental/legislative/judicial branch of the Netjeru, where Sekhmet would be more law enforcement.

She once told me, "I am Sekhmet Who knows better; I am Sekhmet who has learned more."


Thank you for making me feel less crazy ;) And I love that quote!
Bastmuttepta - "Bast-Mut since the beginning; Bast-Mut survives; Bast-Mut perpetuates" | Sat Bast-Mut her Nisut (AUS) Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert, Serqet-Aset, Mafdet, Sobek, her Ptah-Sokar-Wesir | Fedw Diviner for Bast-Mut

Offline Arienihethert

  • Tawy Bak
  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2012, 07:22:01 pm »
Quote from: Sobeqsenu
She would be more in the governmental/legislative/judicial branch of the Netjeru, where Sekhmet would be more law enforcement.

She once told me, "I am Sekhmet Who knows better; I am Sekhmet who has learned more."


Ding! There's a big-picture-ness about the -Mut, I think (for lack of a better word). And LOL at legislative Sekhmet! Suddenly my life makes so much more sense. ;)

Great conversation! Thanks for the questions and the answers, y'all. *big Mut-y hugs all around*
Look out the window. And doesn't this remind you of when you were in the boat, and then later that night you were lying looking up at the ceiling, and the water in your head was not dissimilar from the landscape, and you think to yourself Why is it that the landscape is moving but the boat is still?

Offline Sekhmetbitu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 12:42:25 am »
I have experienced Mut alone, Sekhmet with Mut flavor, and Meretseger, which is, as I understand, Not exactly Sekhmet and not exactly Mut. It's funny, though, when I get the inspiration to have a Mut Image, Mut must be fully human, not Sekhmet-Mut, despite Sekhmet being my Mother. If I could find a replica of this, it would be awesome:

http://tinyurl.com/7bb9wf7
Sekhmetbitu "Sekhmet's (Good) Charachter"

[color:#CC0000]Sat Sekhmet[/color]
[color:#990099]Meryt Mut & Khenty-Amentiu[/color]

Offline Ankhetbast

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Mut in syncretization with other Names
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 05:19:06 am »
Quote from: Sobeqsenu

She once told me, "I am Sekhmet Who knows better; I am Sekhmet who has learned more."


This is very interesting.  I will have to give it more thought.
~~~~Ankhetbast~~~~

Sat Bast her Hekatawy I (AUS), Meryt Serqet, Yinepu her HetHert

"Be excellent to each other." ~Bill and Ted

 


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