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Author Topic: Substitute for Natron?  (Read 5852 times)

Offline terrapin46

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Substitute for Natron?
« on: August 07, 2013, 07:19:18 pm »
Hi guys, another newbie question as I try to make the practical parts of K.O. work for me.

Are there ANY accepted, or preferred-accepted, mass market substitutes for Natron?

I'm just getting back into a religious practice after a very long time, and somehow I just can't convince myself I have to cook/manufacture the most very basic element of Kemetic Orthodox participation on top of just committing/re-adjusting to regular spiritual observation.

Is there anything available for purchase from a store that would be sufficient?

I'm specifically curious about--

1.) Epsom Salt as a purifying bath agent, because the grains are large/easy to count and because bathing in it has added health benefits, so the purification would serve dual purpose.

and...

2.) NETI POT SALINE SOLUTION MIX.

I absolutely laud and adore the Neti Pot holistic sinus rinse/wash system, I can't recommend it enough to people.  If you want clean & pure from the very most interior cavities of your head on out, you can't beat it or duplicate it--fond as they were of sinus cavities, I'm sure the priests of ancient Kemet would be very enthusiastic :-P

As a result of swearing by this thing, I have a stock pile of the dry packets of the saline solution, and its ph balanced to your body so you can use it in your mouth as a rinse and it's  non-toxic to be in there.  

The make up of it is:

--Sodium Bicarbonate (700mg)
--Sodium Chloride (2300mg)

So, maybe sacrifice one packet of dry Neti Pot ingredients per time?

It's already set up in my head as a substance of most profound fastidious clearing/cleansing, it would satisfy me in my own mind.


Would either or both of these be sufficient to a beginner?


I've already bought 2 pairs of white lounge pants in prep for the beginner's class and have been trying to reconcile myself to washing them every other day, I guess I've just been finding it all a real stretch and a lot of preparation :-/

Maybe it just isn't time for me to be poking Kemetic Orthodoxy yet?  
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 07:20:26 pm by thefisherfool »

Offline Shezep_shuty

  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 08:17:51 pm »
Natron is preferred, but if it's really that much of a problem, epsom salt would be my second choice.(Random person opinion, not an official stance by anyone.)I use it in my bath already, along with a little bit of natron. It actually is an evaporate from another body of water that has health benefits. It's especially good if you have a magnesium deficiency. I nibble on a few grains now and then. (Doesn't taste that great.) It's mostly harmless. Though if you go overboard, remember, it is a laxative!

Neti pots are great too. They have saved me from more than a few sinus infections. I can't get myself to do it when I'm not already sick though, bleh.

I haven't found natron to be particularly hard to make, but I have heard other people have trouble with it. Trying to make the incense from the recipe in the prayer book is practically an exercise in hazing though! I did it once, probably won't do that again.
Kemetic Mystic
Heru-sa-Aset is my copilot.

Offline Sema'a

  • Rev. Danielle - Ordained Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 08:18:13 pm »
Em hotep!

I can't really speak to using any pre-packaged substitute for natron, as I've always made it myself. However, I do know that the Nisut (AUS) makes and has sold natron to members of Kemetic Orthodoxy. I am not sure where the link to purchase it is, but I think I remember her saying the store was currently being revamped. If anyone sees this and knows what's what, please let me know?

I think some people have just mixed dry baking soda and salt in a pinch, but that isn't really a substitute for natron - in the process of making it, there is actually a chemical reaction. I know I've purified with table salt in an emergency, though.

Additionally, with the ritual whites: I honestly only wash my whites once a month or so. I rotate between two sets of white clothing, and I only wear my whites during ritual. I don't sweat much or get very dirty while doing Senut or my daily priest's rite, so I don't find I need to wash them very often.

Mostly, I would recommend waiting a little bit. The Beginners' course walks you through the process of setting up shrines and acquiring all the tools you need to get started; there is no rush to be completely prepared for membership at the outset of the class. :) It's designed to be gradual, so you don't feel rushed or strained through the process.

Senebty,
Sobeq
Sema'a Ankh Hen'a Semawy (Sobeqsenu)
W'ab Nekhen Ib Imau-sen
Priest of Wepwawet and Sekhmet-Mut, Beloved of Bast, Nut, Khonsu & Nebt-het
Heri-sesheta Wepwawet | Fedw Diviner
revdgallo@kemet.org

Offline Nubwy

  • Remetj
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 11:00:51 pm »
Nothing substitutes the advice of the Clergy, or the Nisut (AUS), but I thought I would make a small observation. It seems you are caught up in the medical or physical notion of cleansing. Natron has a spiritual cleansing element to it that is important to our faith, and while substitutes are allowed in certain situations, it's always best to use natron.

Don't be so worried about the physical cleansing, so much as the spiritual. :p

Again, I'm not an expert, but I thought I would offer my two cent.
Nubwysenu, The Two Golden Ones

Son of Ra-Heruakhety and Sekhmet-Hethert.
Beloved of Wepwawet-Yinepu.

Offline Tatjasobekra

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 01:16:19 am »
Seeing as I'm waiting for the Beginner's class to "out" myself to my SO and bff who happen to be my roomies before I possibly ruin a pot by baking the natron.. I just mix the salt and baking soda together. /shrug
I keep the mix in a small spray bottle with water.
Sat Sobek-Ra
Meryt Wadjet, Djehuty, Bast her Aset-Serqet

Mudang (korean shaman-priest) ; God Divination, Kut Ceremony, Prayerwork by appointment.
{ themudang.com | ig@themudang }

Offline terrapin46

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2013, 07:05:16 am »
Quote from: Nubwy
Don't be so worried about the physical cleansing, so much as the spiritual. :p

Again, I'm not an expert, but I thought I would offer my two cent.


o_o

You make an excellent point.  I am dragging my feet also for different reasons, I guess it's just easier to channel that into ruthlessly prosaic nit-picks.  Maybe tonight or tomorrow I'll force myself to sit down and actually post emotionally substantial things & put those into words.

Offline Darytessekhmet

  • Rev. Daryt - Ordained Clergy - Moderator (Prayer Requests Forums)
  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2013, 09:11:37 am »
Em hotep *henu*

Here is the Hemet's (AUS) page that has the natron for sale.  
http://www.tearsofisis.com/worship.html#
Daughter of Sekhmet and Nisut Hekatawy(AUS)
W'abet Nekhen sehotep.tu ib-es yim-ef, The Shrine in Which Her Heart is Appeased

Her Father controls Sekhmet, Sekhmet subdues evil, Sekhmet controls Her temper
Even small rivers keep the lands green and the oceans wet.

Offline terrapin46

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2013, 10:04:32 am »
Quote from: Darytessekhmet
Em hotep *henu*

Here is the Hemet's (AUS) page that has the natron for sale.  
http://www.tearsofisis.com/worship.html#
 


Woohoo!

Cause I tried to search for some to buy on Bing & Google using "shop natron" and it just came up with pages & pages of cleaning products.


Offline Heruakhetymose

  • Rev. Gale - Kherep Het-Netjer (Temple Director)
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 10:34:10 pm »
This was actually brought up during retreat last week during a conversation. It was mentioned that Kosher Salt is a good substitute which can be easily purchased most anywhere. Natron is of course always preferred, but Kosher Salt is more pure than regular table salt or other standard types of salt.

Also on washing ritual whites, I'm on the same page as Sobeq. I only wear them for formal ritual work, so they only end up needing to be washed once every few weeks (unless something gets spilled on them, which can and does happen).

It can be a lot of preparation work at times, but once you have everything together, it flows quite easily and is well worth the effort!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Heruakhetymose »
𓅃𓈌𓏏𓏭𓄟
Rev. Heruakhetymose (Born of Heruakhety)
Daughter of Heruakhety, Beloved of Ra, Set, and Yinepu-Wepwawet
Contact Info
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Offline Ankhetbast

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 07:38:18 pm »
When I was in Korea, I used salt.  Strangely enough, I didn't feel like trying to take a bottle of unlabeled white crystals through airport security.  It's definitely best to use actual natron, and I actually enjoyed making it, but salt will do in a pinch (oh, the puns).  I honestly don't know about epsom salts, as I'm not a chemist.  But I'm also not a W'abet.
~~~~Ankhetbast~~~~

Sat Bast her Hekatawy I (AUS), Meryt Serqet, Yinepu her HetHert

"Be excellent to each other." ~Bill and Ted

Offline Mesetibes

  • Rev Shauna - Ordained Clergy
  • Country: ca
Re: Substitute for Natron?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 08:11:49 pm »
Em Hotep,

Epsom Salt is NOT a good substitute for natron. It contains Magnesium and Sulfate. While these two things are fine in the form of Epson Salts which are diluted in water, I would not combine it with Sodium Bicarbonate to make a form of Natron. If you absolutely NEED a substitute, use Kosher salt. Table salt contains Iodine, Sea salt may contain fish contaminates. Kosher salt typically contains no additives, though an anti-clumping agent might be present. If you're ever unsure, check the label. In making natron, it is advised to use Kosher salt.

Why?

Aside from the lack of any other additives, Kosher salt is coarse grain salt where the crystals have dried flat, rather than round. A flat surface is easier to dissolve in water along with the Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate). Also, the addition of heat in the process of making natron is important for the catalyzation process. Heat breaks the bonds that keep Sodium Bicarbonate (NaHCO3), Sodium Chloride (NaCl) and Dihydrogen Monoxoide (h2o) as separate elements, which the cooling helps to reform the bonds required to make Natron or sodium carbonate decahydrate (Na2CO3·10H2O,)

Use of Kosher salt in Non-Kemetic Orthodox ritual is basically used to create a form of osmosis to remove unwanted bodily fluid or blood products. Basically, the salt crystals absorb any moisture left in the meat its covering, which is then washed away.

*Removes the Science Hat*

That said, Don't worry about making natron too much at the moment. It's understood its often a difficult and time consuming process. Part of the learning is through the doing, and if you mess it up the first time, don't beat yourself up over it. I think I effectively killed three batches of natron before I was able to make a decent batch of it.

Senebty,
~Maret
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 08:18:36 pm by Maretemheqat »
Rev. Mesetibes
Sat Heqat, meryt Djehuti her Ptah her Heru-wer
Fedw Diviner
2011 Wep Ronpet Frog Princess/
W'abet Nekhen Sha'a Sha'at Imef

 


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