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Author Topic: Set's Animal  (Read 5553 times)

Set's Animal
« on: December 21, 2013, 12:40:26 pm »
What is Set? What is the animal that represents Him? No one, to my knowledge, has been able to figure it out. It's a very unusual-looking creature.
Akins

Offline Arefsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2013, 01:41:31 pm »
I don't think anyone is sure.

From "Wepwawet Wiki":
"Set can appear as a "Set-animal", a man with a "Set-animal" head, a donkey, a pig, or a hippopotamus. He can also be portrayed with red hair.

The Set animal is a red mammal with tall, squared-off ears, curved snout, and a forked tail. Debate is ongoing about what kind of animal this is, or if it's a mythical beast."
"Enclosed by Two"
Sat Bast her Wepwawet-Yinepu
Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert her Heru-sa-Aset

Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2013, 03:15:41 pm »
I think he looks like an aardvark with squared ears.

Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2013, 07:44:26 am »
The Set Animal also known as the "Sha" has three popular theories:
1. An unknown animal that was know to Kemet but became extinct
2. A stylized version of a Donkey, Aardvark or Okapi.
3. A Mythical beast

I'll link to wikipedia for this topic, I do have other links lurking around that has info on the Sha but can't seem to find them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_animal

Offline terrapin46

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 09:02:57 pm »
I wonder sometimes if bits of the Set Beast aren't nicked from hyenas. Striped hyenas are native to Egypt and have square ears and a heavy, drooping muzzle. The tradition of Set being red haired might be drawn from spotted hyenas, too; even though they're sub-Saharan they're very often reddish maned and the overall character of din and confusion would have bourne out.

I don't think the Set animal is literally supposed to be a stylized hyena, you just get out of the Sha animal what you put in and those are the parts I've picked out.

(Sorry guys, I'm bored & chatty today if you can't tell :p)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 09:04:27 pm by thefisherfool »

Offline Satsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2014, 09:36:08 am »
I believe the Set animal is the Salawa, which is either an extinct or incredibly rare (think cryptozoology) canine type creature. Not sure if I would say specifically canine though. I've dealt a little with the "Set-beast" in heka and it feels unlike any other creature I have ever worked with. :)
Satsenu, Daughter of Two
I am the daughter of Wepwawet(-Yinepu) and Bast, beloved of Wesir-Sokar and Amun-Ra.

Offline Panetjerwesir

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2014, 09:48:17 am »
I had heard that the salawa was supposedly found, but it ended up being a Fennec Fox. Have a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fennec_fox
=
Panetjerwesir ("Panetjer")
"Wesir is God"
Sa Wesir, Mery Yinepu-Wepwawet

Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 04:34:33 pm »
i always have picture myself as a red fox (Vulpes vulpes)when i meditate on him , he never show me his face it is like cloudy in my mind
[color:red]Biaiensekhmet Son of Sekhmet-Hethert beloved of Yinepu-Wepwawet and Seth =P[/color]

[color:blue]Groupie of Heru-wer Nebethet and Nut[/color]

Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 04:51:56 pm »
That fennec fox is adorable...

I have found some of the statues that are made lean towards aardvark or donkey in the face, but considering the ancient sources are pretty diverse, I can see why.

Ancient combs in the area where Seth was supposedly born lean towards antelope shapes.
art is life

my work

Offline Vaalea

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: 00
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 04:27:00 pm »
Quote from: Akins
What is Set? What is the animal that represents Him? No one, to my knowledge, has been able to figure it out. It's a very unusual-looking creature.  


Well, in every case we know he'd be a redhead with unusually pale skin to his species, since that was a subject of his ostracization, so that bit narrows the pool of choice. ;)

(I'm personally also for fennec of some sort, given the  presence of their ability to move sneakily in the *deserts* and the ear shape very much going with visual descriptions of Set, yet ymmv obviously and Set's a chaotic man, I doubt he'd stick to one of anything, unless it's storms and deserts.;))
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Vaalea »
Vaalea, Shemsu em Kemet.
Sa Wepwawet-Ra her Bast, KO Sa Serqet.
Friend to Khepera and Sobek-Ra.

Tarot reader for Wepwawet & Serqet.

Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 12:05:09 am »
I'm going with an aardvark or an ant eater. Large ants and termites are common in the dessert's of Africa.
A follower of the GODS for a couple of decades.

Offline Senuwierneheh

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 07:55:46 am »
Em Hotep!
Quote from: Vaalea
Quote from: Akins
What is Set? What is the animal that represents Him? No one, to my knowledge, has been able to figure it out. It's a very unusual-looking creature.  


Well, in every case we know he'd be a redhead with unusually pale skin to his species, since that was a subject of his ostracization, so that bit narrows the pool of choice. ;)


While the color red is definitely associated with Set, I've not seen any source to confirm this "pale skin" idea.  What is your source?

While other animals were added later to the Set iconography, the most convincing sources point to the Saluki dog for the most ancient images.

from my webpage:
http://www.joanlansberry.com/setfind/setglyp2.html

Ken Moss advances the idea that the Saluki is the prototype for the Set animal in the August/September 2009 issue of _Ancient Egypt_. "These oldest representations of the Seth-animal are clearly of a dog, but with two unique features: an erect tail and erect squared-off ears. The body of the Seth-animal has in fact always been that of a canine, with paws, and even the head was dog-like in the beginning. It was only over time that the head became exaggerated with a long, narrow, down-turned snout." (Page 43)

Moss continues, "No animal has ever had ears that naturally ended in squared tips, but it was precisely this characteristic that led to my fortuitous discovery of the real Seth-animal.

"While researching the god Seth, I happened upon a National Geographic program called The Hunting Hounds of Arabia, and there on the screen was a living Seth-animal. It was a streamlined dog with erect feathered tail and erect square-tipped ears running in the desert scrub after a desperate rabbit. The answer to the square-tipped ears was explained by the narrator. The dogs’ ears were cropped, that is the tips of the ears had been cut off by their owners. This is a long-standing tradition, still carried out in Syria and elsewhere, that is done in the belief it helps the dogs avoid being snagged on branches while pursuing their game. The breed is the magnificent Saluki, the quintessential Arabian hound of the Bedouin and others." (Page 43)

Why are the Set-animal's ear's straight up? Observations of Salukis reveal that when they are running, the ears fly up, as does its tail.

"The erect status of both the tail and ears of the Seth-animal is also now clear. The animal was portrayed in its hunting state rather than while resting like most dogs or canine deities (Anubis, for example, who was a dog said by some to have been fathered by Seth). This fits perfectly with the god Seth himself, the all-powerful god of action, a hunter and perpetual dispatcher of the serpent Apep [Apophis]. Abu Nuwas, a ninth century Arab poet, wrote of a hunting Saluki: 'Like an arrow it was sent, tearing away from his own skin, lightning like a cloud.'" (Page 44)

  (http://www.joanlansberry.com/setfind/saluki1.png)
Photo from Moss' article

Even when seated with legs drawn up, the image keeps the 'active' flying ears and upright tail. This is the form of one of the hieroglyphs for Set:
 
(http://www.joanlansberry.com/setfind/sethiero.gif)
Source: TeVelde, _Seth, God of Confusion_

...Meresankh
Senuwierneheh (My Two, forever)
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Set, meryt Ptah-Sokar-Wesir, Djehuty, her Heru-Wer
Self-care Hethert, Set and Ptah Advocate
𓁥 𓁣 𓁰

Offline Senuwierneheh

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2014, 07:41:39 pm »
Em Hotep!
Quote from: Meresankh

Quote from: Vaalea


Well, in every case we know he'd be a redhead with unusually pale skin to his species, since that was a subject of his ostracization, so that bit narrows the pool of choice. ;)


While the color red is definitely associated with Set, I've not seen any source to confirm this "pale skin" idea.  What is your source?


I asked around about this 'white' Set, and my colleagues pointed me in the right direction. I haven't seen anything about the whiteness being a source of ostracization, but rather because of Set's association with the white crown.

In _The Origins of Osiris and his Cult_, by J. Gwyn Griffiths, we read

"Red was a colour often associated with Seth in later times.  In early texts, however, white seems to be the colour associated with him.  Thus in a spell where Seth and his followers are commanded by Thoth to carry Osiris-King it is said of Seth:

'They make thy face white like white shrines.' (Pyr. 1659b)

Sethe in his Commentary on the Dramatic Ramesseum Papyrus aptly quotes this saying in connexion with the locus in that papyrus (section 36) where Seth is regarded as incorporated in the white shrine.  He finds the basic reason for the association in the fact that white was the national colour of Upper Egypt, as exemplified in the White Crown of Upper Egypt; and on this point Kees concurs with Sethe." (pages 79-80)

So we know that much...

Meresankh
Senuwierneheh (My Two, forever)
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Set, meryt Ptah-Sokar-Wesir, Djehuty, her Heru-Wer
Self-care Hethert, Set and Ptah Advocate
𓁥 𓁣 𓁰

Offline Senuwierneheh

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Set's Animal
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2014, 07:49:52 am »
Em Hotep,
Quote from: Meresankh

"Red was a colour often associated with Seth in later times.  In early texts, however, white seems to be the colour associated with him.  Thus in a spell where Seth and his followers are commanded by Thoth to carry Osiris-King it is said of Seth:

'They make thy face white like white shrines.' (Pyr. 1659b)


Last night, I went to bed thinking this face whitening is perhaps only for the Osiris transport duties, for I hadn't seen any image of a white-faced Set. I acknowledged that there might be some out there, just that I hadn't seen any!

I was looking through some photos this morning and found an interesting find in regards to the white faced Set spoken of in the Pyramid texts.

Look closely at the stela of Aapehty, usually at the British Museum:

http://www.joanlansberry.com/setfind/aapehty.html

The photo there by Monique van der Veen is clearer than the museum photo:
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/aes/l/limestone_stela_of_aapehty.aspx

As I look, both Aapehty and Set have very ruddy colored skin, the standard way male gods and humans were depicted. But look closely, and I can see no trace of red on Set's face!

While this isn't consistently the case, for instance the "Bull of Ombos" stela at the Ny Carlsberg Glyptotek
http://www.joanlansberry.com/setfind/setspear.html
shows a very ruddy faced Set, it's interesting to know that on some occasions, Set is depicted with a pale face.

I learn something new almost every day!

...Meresankh
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 07:58:16 am by Meresankh »
Senuwierneheh (My Two, forever)
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Set, meryt Ptah-Sokar-Wesir, Djehuty, her Heru-Wer
Self-care Hethert, Set and Ptah Advocate
𓁥 𓁣 𓁰


 


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