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Author Topic: Gods and Intimacy?  (Read 8577 times)

Gods and Intimacy?
« on: July 08, 2014, 08:44:08 pm »
Hi! Is it considered disrespectful to ask the Gods for a certain...er...intimate encounter? I know other Pagan branches encourage that with their Deities, but how does Kemeticism view such encounters?

Offline ubenetsenu

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 08:57:29 pm »
for clarity's sake, do you mean asking Them to send you an intimate encounter with another human, or asking Them to have one with you Themselves?
ubenetsenu - "two appear shining"
sat Sekhmet-Mut her Khonsu
meryt Wesir her Serqet-Aset
𓁴𓁳
tarot and heka by request

Offline Tasedjebbast

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 09:03:10 pm »
We don't have sex with our gods.  Think about the language we use to describe our relationships with Them.  Child of Netjer.  Daughter of So-And-So. Son of X. It's just not appropriate.

Having said that, I think it's perfectly normal and appropriate to have erotic feelings about Them.  I had a crush on Wesir for a good while.  His gentle masculine strength is very appealing.  Set is hot.  It's part of Who He is.  But like having a crush on your favorite teacher or your best friend's Mom, you don't ever really get to do anything real about it.  Though those feelings can and do help you sort out what it is you are looking for in a romantic/sexual partner.  

Senebty,

Taji
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tasedjebbastmut »
Daughter of Bast-Mut & Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 11:28:31 pm »
On whether it is appropriate- I think that it depends on who you ask. I am familiar with quite a few people who have Godspouse/lover relationships, including ones who identify as Kemetic.

Granted I don't know if HoN actually has an official stance on the matter? But just saying, it does exist.



« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 11:29:07 pm by AddisonN »
Senebty,
Mehinefertemra (Nefertem-Ra fills me)
Son of Nefertem-Ra
Beloved of Set
Blog|Facebook|Tumblr

Offline Caitlin

  • Remetj
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 01:38:44 am »
KO, if I remember correctly, doesn't officially recognize it and it doesn't fit within the framework of the religion. I have, however, seen several kemetics have intimate, and yes, sexual, relationships with Netjeru.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 01:38:56 am by Caitlin »

Offline Tanebet

  • Rev Astrid - Ordained Clergy, Semer-Wati
  • Country: 00
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 01:40:15 am »
I guess it makes sense for some pantheons which are full of Demigods, the offspring of humans and Gods.
There are no Egyptian myths about Demigods, so I would say that he ancient Egyptians didn't believe in divine/human sexual relationships, save for the one exception that a God fathered the Nisut.
Tanebetheru "Heru's Lordship"
Sat Heru Sa Aset her Nisut (AUS), Meryt Ra-Heru-akhety her Heru-Behedety
Heri-Sesheta Heru-Sa-Aset

This is what I was born to: to live, to love, to know, to change and embrace the infinite.
Normandi Ellis: "Awakening Osiris"

Offline Vaalea

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: 00
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 06:40:51 am »
Considering this as 'is this a KO thing', no, it isn't. 'Is this a kemetic thing'? Well, it still isn't. 'Is this something *some kemetics* do in ther practice?' Well, definitely. It just isn't something that's part of *the religion*, whether one takes into account kemetism as a whole or Kemetic Orthodoxy specifically. Whether it's *individual* practice or part of spiritual life is another question. (And one could argue a kemetic practicing something makes it kemetic by the virtue of *them* being kemetic, so, -arh.)

I'd suppose part of the ethical question about this is depending how does one view netjeru as a whole and on specific relationships with Them. As was pointed out, it's even entrenched in the very *language* of Kemetic Orthodoxy to consider those relations mostly parental, definitely familial, and as such intimate contacts not something that would be appropriate.

As to asking the Gods to help finding a partner, there's definitely appropriate means of asking for that, though then again, there's only so much anyone divine *should* do about relationships of people; or how much should one attempt to influence other person's behavior, tbqh.

(Personally I believe it ok to ask for help in interpersonal relationships. But I wouldn't condone of coercion into relationship or anything the like, and I'm not inclined to believe our gods would hear out such a request. They support free will and responsibility and counting with consequences within everything. To not do so wouldn't be very ma'at. But then, that's for another discussion, perhaps.)

~Merry
Vaalea, Shemsu em Kemet.
Sa Wepwawet-Ra her Bast, KO Sa Serqet.
Friend to Khepera and Sobek-Ra.

Tarot reader for Wepwawet & Serqet.

Offline Sema'a

  • Rev. Danielle - Ordained Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 09:52:12 am »
Vaalea,that is an awesome way to put it. Intimacy with the gods is not a Kemetic Orthodox thing or even a global kemetic thing, but it is a part of some people's practices and for them it is integral to their faith. I generally side with Taji as to why it is inappropriate within a Kemetic Orthodox context, for the record.

As for asking the gods to help you have such an encounter with another person? Heck yes. There are plenty of prayers to Hethert from antiquity asking for a lover. :smile:

I hope that helps!

Senebty,
Sobeq
Priest of Wepwawet and Sekhmet-Mut
Beloved of Bast, Nut, Khonsu & Nebt-het
Heri-sesheta Wepwawet | Fedw Diviner
revdgallo@kemet.org

Offline Tuwer

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: ca
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2014, 10:27:26 am »
Quote from: Vaalea
As to asking the Gods to help finding a partner, there's definitely appropriate means of asking for that, though then again, there's only so much anyone divine *should* do about relationships of people; or how much should one attempt to influence other person's behavior, tbqh.

To tack onto what Merry said here, and to be slightly off-topic in terms of asking the Gods for help.... I'd also suggest petitioning your Akhu for any sort of help they can offer, for bringing the right sort of person/people for intimate relationships. Our Akhu, compared to the Gods, have had a lot more dealings with human relationships, so they may be able to offer a different sort of help. :)
Senebty,
~ Tuwer
~ Daughter of Bast-Mut and (Hekatawy-Alexandros)| (AUS), Beloved of Amun-Ra & Khonsu

Offline Ha'autmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2014, 02:30:11 pm »
If you're asking something along the lines of "is it okay to talk to the Gods about sex/make requests regarding sex" I think the answer is a pretty emphatic yes. As long as what you're doing is ethical, consensual, and safe, the Gods aren't going to judge you for it!

A lot of religions are big on rule-making regarding sex, but this isn't one of them. Our rules for sex are basically the same as our rules for anything else: be honest, be respectful, and don't hurt or manipulate people.

If what you're asking is more along the lines of "is it disrespectful to ask a God for a sexual encounter with Them?" then I'm just going to say ditto to everyone else who has already responded here. It's not a KO thing, so you won't find a lot of advice here, and it's something that would probably be inappropriate for us specifically. Elsewhere in the Kemetic community, though? Sure.
- Ha'aut

"Joy of My Mothers"
Son of Serqet and Hethert-Nut, beloved of Mut and Nehebkau.

Teach me to speak with their voices
Show me the way and I'll try again

Offline Devo

  • Remetj
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 03:03:23 pm »
Quote from: Vaalea
Considering this as 'is this a KO thing', no, it isn't. 'Is this a kemetic thing'? Well, it still isn't. 'Is this something *some kemetics* do in ther practice?' Well, definitely. It just isn't something that's part of *the religion*, whether one takes into account kemetism as a whole or Kemetic Orthodoxy specifically. Whether it's *individual* practice or part of spiritual life is another question. (And one could argue a kemetic practicing something makes it kemetic by the virtue of *them* being kemetic, so, -arh.)


Maybe I'm confused. But sayig it's not a Kemetic thing... and then saying "but some Kemetics do it"... technically... that would make it a Kemetic thing, afaict.

I personally don't understand why people get so quicked out over the possibility of having sexual and non-familiar relations with the gods. It's a thing, it's a documented thing in many cultures, and there are multiple Kemetics who have relationships with the NTRW that aren't quite familial. Some of which have sexual elements, some of which don't. Just depends on the specifics.

I would agree that KO doesn't really allow for non-familiar encounters (esp considering that Hemet herself seems to dislike the notion). However, there are other parts of the Kemetic community at large that are okay with it.

-Devo
dA | FB | Tumblr | WP

Offline Ha'autmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 03:17:22 pm »
I may be wrong here, but I think Vaalea meant it's not an intrinsic part of the religion (the way, for instance, making offerings or lighting incense is), because there's no documentation of it in antiquity and it's a minority of people in Kemetic practice today who incorporate it.

For the record, I'm squicked out by it on a personal level, but I don't think it's wrong. Like you said, it's documented in tons of cultures. It's just not for me because that's not how I see Netjer (or deity in general, really). But my personal preference and worldview shouldn't invalidate anyone else's practice.
- Ha'aut

"Joy of My Mothers"
Son of Serqet and Hethert-Nut, beloved of Mut and Nehebkau.

Teach me to speak with their voices
Show me the way and I'll try again

Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2014, 03:33:37 pm »
Quote from: PhoenixJRising
But my personal preference and worldview shouldn't invalidate anyone else's practice.


I feel like this is something super important to remember. I personally am not a godspouse/lover but that does not mean that my personal practice should invalidate someone else's. My comment earlier in this thread earlier was just pointing out that some people do practice this, and that I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that it is inappropriate for people to practice. It's something personal, and I feel no one should invalidate another person's practice.

---

I mean, even if there are no specific myths or documentation, just because it is a "modern" practice does that make it invalid? Because in that case you could argue then that any of the modern practices that have no documentation or myths to back them up are invalid.

That just seems really, really wrong to me.

I hope people can understand, I am not trying to attack anyone, but I am having a hard time comprehending how others could be so quick to invalidate the personal, private practices of others.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by AddisonN »
Senebty,
Mehinefertemra (Nefertem-Ra fills me)
Son of Nefertem-Ra
Beloved of Set
Blog|Facebook|Tumblr

Offline Tasedjebbast

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2014, 04:29:00 pm »
I think there is a distinct different between asking for one's personal practices to be respected and insisting that one's personal practices be universally labeled as something for which there is no traditional support just because I might find it appropriate or meaningful.   Disrespecting a culture by trying to fit your own personal practices into it, labeling it as culturally appropriate, and insisting that your doing so be universally acknowledged as valid is just as disrespectful as invalidating someone's personal practices.  

Is having sex with deity invalid?  That's up to the person and the God doing it.  

Is it Kemetic?   No, not really.  

Two very different questions.  And personally, because of the weight of traditions against it, I would find it disrespectful to proposition a Kemetic deity for sex.  Reminds me of the story a friend told me about a Wiccan drawing down she went to.  It was the custom of the coven for the vessel to be skyclad.  They wanted to draw down Athena and got Her.  And She promptly chewed them out for allowing Her to appear naked.  Just because you want something doesn't mean the gods will go along with it.  And the millennia of tradition dictating how it is appropriate to approach and honor a god is there for a reason.  You ignore it at your peril.  Do things change?   Sure.  No culture is stagnant.  But I think it's better to err on the side of saying that if a Kemetic deity wants into your pants, let Them make the first move.  

Senebty,

Taji.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 04:37:44 pm by Tasedjebbastmut »
Daughter of Bast-Mut & Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Re: Gods and Intimacy?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2014, 04:33:33 pm »
Quote from: Tasedjebbastmut
I think there is a distinct different between asking for one's personal practices to be respected and insisting that one's personal practices be universally labeled as something for which there is no traditional support just because I might find it appropriate or meaningful.   Disrespecting a culture by trying to fit your own personal practices into it, labeling it as culturally appropriate, and insisting that your doing so be universally acknowledged as valid is just as disrespectful as invalidating someone's personal practices.  

Is it invalid?  That's up to the person doing it or not

Is it Kemetic?   No, not really.  

Two very different questions.  

Senebty,

Taji.  


I don't recall saying anything about asking it to be universally accepted? I was just saying that invalidating someone's beliefs is not very fair, in my opinion. It's disrespectful.

*shrugs*
Senebty,
Mehinefertemra (Nefertem-Ra fills me)
Son of Nefertem-Ra
Beloved of Set
Blog|Facebook|Tumblr

 


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