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Author Topic: 5 elements  (Read 2194 times)

Offline Gleb

  • Remetj
  • Country: 00
5 elements
« on: April 30, 2015, 01:26:11 pm »
Em Hotep everyone! -full henu- ^_^
So I know there are 5 elements. I took them from the Wiccan pentagram and those are the elements I work with:
-Spirit (currently the element I focus on)
-Water
-Air
-Fire
-And Earth.

Somewhere I heard of cheese. But I don't know if it's true. Sounds a bit strange to me.

So is there such a thing in Kemetism/KO?
And how does one know his nature and which elements he leans towards?

Senebty,
Gleb
Senebty,
Gleb

Offline Ematsen

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: 5 elements
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2015, 01:50:00 am »
Elements change a lot depending on where you are from, where you're living, and your personal connection to them.

Your "strongest element" can also change over time. Some days I feel more connected to water, some days I feel more connected to fire.

Many things can be created from a mix - a storm is born of air currents, with water falling to the earth. A desert is created by wind and the fiery heat of the sun combined with a lack of water.

You know yourself better than anyone, so what do YOU feel drawn towards? :)
Senuwiematsen - My Two, In Their Moment.

Sat Sekhmet-Mut her Set.
Meryt Wepwawet-Yinepu, Aset-Serqet, Heru-Wer, her Nut.

Offline Ha'autmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: 5 elements
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2015, 01:56:43 am »
I don't know that Kemeticism really has a four/five elements thing, but that doesn't mean you can't use the concept anyway. I know I do, because it has meaning to me.

Like Ematsen, I am also a fire/water person. Which is kind of funny, now that I think about it, since looking at my two mothers Serqet is a very "fiery" goddess to me while Hethert-Nut has a lot of associations with water.
- Ha'aut

"Joy of My Mothers"
Son of Serqet and Hethert-Nut, beloved of Mut and Nehebkau.

Teach me to speak with their voices
Show me the way and I'll try again

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: 5 elements
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 08:48:24 am »
Em Hotep everyone! -full henu- ^_^
So I know there are 5 elements. I took them from the Wiccan pentagram and those are the elements I work with:
-Spirit (currently the element I focus on)
-Water
-Air
-Fire
-And Earth.

Somewhere I heard of cheese. But I don't know if it's true. Sounds a bit strange to me.

So is there such a thing in Kemetism/KO?
And how does one know his nature and which elements he leans towards?

Senebty,
Gleb

Historically, no. "The [Four] Classical Elements" are attributable to the Greek-Sicilian Empedocles (5th century BCE) chiefly, since he was the one to establish four ultimate elements that make up all matter, which he dubbed "roots." Empedocles did this on a basis that didn't propose a kind of (primitive) meta-substance-monism-thingy that some other Greek philosophers had -- that is, all matter wasn't derived from one single, universal substance: either fire, air, water, OR earth; nor one single, universal substance that could transform into all the others, as other Greek philosophers (principally Thales and Heraclitus, but not limited to these) argued from varying points and terms of opposition to one-another. Rather, principle, intangible forces called philia and neikos, Empedocles maintained, explained the relationships and arrangements and forms of matter, matter which was comprised of more than just one single, universal element, more than just a solitary "root."

Aristotle (384 – 322 BCE) distinguished "aether" (which at some point and for some reason I don't know was very poorly translated to "spirit," but is in the reality of its original intention much more akin to "space," in the sense of a medium through which light travels and gravity happens, etc.) as separate from air, creating a system of Five Elements out of the former model of Four, contrary to what his mentor Plato put forward (Plato thought of aether as a form of air).

All of these philosophers belonged to the so-called "Ionian School" -- which was not an actual "school" nor a unified series of philosophies, really, just a (very loose) designation based on the place they all came from/"operated" within (Ionia).

The model of Five Elements present in Modern Wicca was extrapolated from this through Hermeticism, or perhaps more appropriately, Hermeticism's (reinterpretative) influence on Early Modern and subsequent Modern Western "Esoteric" movements -- Hermeticism arose in Late Antiquity, has a long and complicated history, and by the Late Medieval/Renaissance and Early Modern Periods had become an ever-expanding, hodge-podgey, unintelligible mess of things, frankly. Which is why I hate getting into it in much detail: it's an intensely frustrating history. xD

Going by the present state and extent of my knowledge as an ANES student, there isn't a series of concepts with a "native, translational equivalent" to these comparatively late Northern-side-of-the-Mediterranean concepts in Egyptian religion or other Ancient Near Eastern (Eastern Mediterranean/Levantine and Mesopotamian) religions. The system of the "Classical Elements" wasn't introduced to Egypt, insofar as I recall, until after the Hellenization of the Ancient Near East had commenced, following the conquests of Alexander the Great and his death in 323 BCE.

Aaaaallllll that having been said, just because it's "not distinctly or originally Egyptian" doesn't necessarily mean you can't incorporate it, or that it can't have meaning to you. It picks no pockets and breaks no legs. The Gods being associated with various forces and features of material nature is certainly nothing alien to Egyptian religion (and other ANE religions, for that matter), past or present, though They weren't distilled within five basic elemental categories.

As for "learning which of the Four/Five Classical Elements one feels most drawn to," or aspects/elements of nature in any other terms, as Ematsen already said above, you're probably the only person with the answer to that particular question. ;) Applying such a model of elements within personal, religious contexts is totally beyond me, though, so for better or worse I have nothing to add there. :P

*Edited for grammar mistakes*
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 09:00:49 am by Sarduriur »
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

Offline Gleb

  • Remetj
  • Country: 00
Re: 5 elements
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2015, 11:14:11 am »
Thanks very much, all of you! ^_^
I'd also like bring these 4 or 5 elements into my life both metaphorically - as symbols and as materials of some sort. For instance, water may symbolize calmness. But if the water element is combined with the wind, it can create something new. Rain, for instance. Now I can use this combination when working with a Netjer who is associated with rain, like Tefnut.
Or using earth and asking Geb for help in creating a good basis for life in a new place.

I've been thinking lately of which elements define me most. I think they are earth and fire. At least for now. It's hard for me to feel something positive. Which means I can and should learn a lot from water+wind people. :)
Senebty,
Gleb

 


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