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Author Topic: Dual-Parented Question  (Read 2788 times)

Offline FORMER MEMBER

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  • Country: us
Dual-Parented Question
« on: October 03, 2016, 12:25:59 pm »
Em hotep nefer, all!

I don't know why I was thinking of this during my nightly prayers* the other day, but I got to wondering:

Is it possible for Parent Deities to ever come into conflict with Each Other, or to disagree? Has anyone experienced this? For example, I could see Papa Set counseling some things that Mama Sekhmet would not condone, or vice versa. This hasn't happened to me, but--well--now that I've thought about it, I'm curious. After all, in the myths, the Gods are passionate, emotional Beings, prone to disagreements or mistakes, and I wonder if those same traits might carry over into Parenting (much as human parents can work together or disagree). :)

For some reason, I'd always kind of taken this as a given between Beloveds and/or Beloveds and Parents, although in my experience it's been more of a balancing act: i.e. Ptah balances out Set (more than Sekhmet, anyway, but that's perhaps because the creative-destructive thing has always felt more Set-like to me, like it bubbles closer to the surface, than with Mama).

Just some idle speculations. I'd love to hear what others think!

Senebty!
Gezausenu.

*Nightly prayers? Uh. Let's say rambling to my Gods as I'm falling asleep. ;) It's comforting.
Removed at request of former member.

Offline drew_sassy

  • Remetj
  • Country: pt
Re: Dual-Parented Question
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2016, 12:40:57 pm »
I don't have any experiences with that (by the way I don't even had experiences with any god, from what I remember, as I'm a begginer, although I have know this path of the Gods before I found out KO haha).

Even not haven't had that experiences.. I do think that this could happen, because each God is different, and thinks diferently.

This.. from my point of view.  ;D

Offline Tarudsenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: gb
Re: Dual-Parented Question
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2016, 02:57:01 pm »
I've never been aware of any conflict between my Parents. The closest I get is where one Parent feels much more concerned with something than the other (for example Hethert with emotional issues and Heru with what He wants me to do spiritually), but no actual disagreements. In my case They very much work together and back each other up.
Tarudsenu: "Stairway to Two"
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Heru-sa-Aset,
meryt Shu her Nit-Nebthet-Seshat

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Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Dual-Parented Question
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2016, 05:23:12 pm »
Em hotep nefer, Gezau! :D Thank you for starting this topic.

For me, the premise of "Parents working against one-another" has never been an issue -- taking into account that Divine "Parents" aren't like mortal parents of a human being, and that I come from the perspective of "Gods do not have mortal affectations." Gods "love," for example, and above all have love for us, the highest form of love which exists (the Greeks have a wonderfully precise word for it: agápē). This love is different than any manner of physical, romantic, and human familial love. Being colored by my (minor degree) background in Philo/Theo, I don't see Them as being "emotional" in the ways we humans are. When we encounter Their "emotion" in myths, it's metaphorical/euphemistic. It reads like our ways of being "emotional" and "passionate," etc., as it's designed to help us better understand / relate to Them and Their Mysteries in more than one way by putting it all into terms we humans can much more readily understand / relate to.

Anyway, getting back on-topic, the only sort of "conflict" I have experienced relates to my own lack of time-management and "equality of worship." I tend to pay my "Great Father," Amun-Re, more worship-attention than Set, my "First Father." I call Set my "First Father," because He was the absolute first to come forward in my RPD, and gave a very strong response to Hemet (AUS) when she divined for me. Even before I was divined, Set was a very strong, central presence in my religious life -- He's what brought me into Egyptian religion(s) and eventually Kemetic Orthodoxy as a believing subject and not one of purely "clinical" academic interest -- but I did not give Him comparably strong, focused attention much of the time, particularly when I started to become more and more immersed in the study and worship of ovine deities. The liturgy I have pieced-together for Amun-Re is much more complete, and comes much more readily to me, than anything I have for Set. As a result, I struggle to give Set worship regularly when I haven't yet developed a format for Set as "complete" as what I currently have for my Great Father Amun-Re.

Set and the other deities of my lineup (and, indeed, a few outside my lineup) don't "conflict" in the sense that They "hate one-other," or "work against one-another," or "advise against one-another," or anything of the sort. The way I see it, They are all Netjeru, all Lords of Ma'at, all form and shape the scheme of Creation and the beings within it, and fundamentally cannot conflict with one-another in that sense. They have differing (but dynamic and interdependent) spheres of influence, to be sure, but They don't seem to "conflict" in a deliberate and hostile sense for it.

When I'm in the midst of reciting the liturgy of Amun-Re especially, I will get the sense that Set is forcing His way through, silently interrupting, because I do not acknowledge Him first and foremost, and do not give Him worship-attention equal to that of my Great Father (though I've conceded to the understanding that Set gets "center stage" of my shrine, and He cannot have His image existing anywhere but at the center of "everything," haha). Outside the shrine, when I'm working on art pieces for other deities, I get the same sense. I feel impelled to create more art for Set, to do more for Set in general, even though I have many other things I want and/or need to do apart from yet more Set-themed works, etc. Now, this feeling of "being impelled" isn't really a negative feeling -- indeed, I feel that agápē-love and joy when He "intrudes" -- but I know it's still something of a Divine scolding from Him, given the circumstances, however minor a scolding it may be.

It's not "jealousy" on the part of Set. I don't see Set, a Divine Being that isn't human and was never human, as having "jealousy," a human emotion. It's more like "you owe Me this, Sedjfai, and you're not giving Me as much as you owe Me when I come to collect. Amun-Re isn't your First Father. I am."

In summation: There's no conflict between my Fathers, or any other God within or outside my RPD lineup. The only "conflict" is that which is purely the product of my own difficulties in giving more equal worship-attention to my two Fathers -- which is taking time and effort to correct, but is entirely within my power to correct. Above all, that "conflict" doesn't come from Them, it isn't generated between Them and/or transposed onto me by Them. Hopefully that makes some kind of sense. :P

Senebty!
Sedjfai
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

Offline FORMER MEMBER

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  • Country: us
Re: Dual-Parented Question
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 07:15:44 pm »
Sedfjai, I also come from a philo/theo background--your answer was definitely thought-provoking! :) And yes, the Greeks with agape . . .

I also appreciated your thoughts on worship time with your Fathers, and brings me to clarifying that I don't mean . . . hm . . . that one's Parents might come into conflict with each other as in working against each other, but . . . well, They might approach a situation differently and have a different lesson They wish to teach us, or have a different tack for us to try, than our other Parent. If that makes sense?

As it were . . . I *do* know what you mean about Set rather inserting Himself into every other project we might be tackling at the moment. HA. He does this to me quite a bit, actually, and if I don't readily have a plan for the piece of paper in front of me--He's usually Who shows up. Heh. But I, too, always experience that agape-love/joy, even if I wasn't particularly expecting Him to be involved. (Bearing in mind that Set's involvement, for me, can range from drawing to stories to my day-to-day activities--usually when I least expect Him, there He is.)

Thank you again for your thoughtful answer!!
Senebty,
Gezausenu.
Removed at request of former member.

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Dual-Parented Question
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 08:59:58 pm »
Em hotep nefer, Gezau! :D

Oh good, I'm glad I wasn't totally off the mark in my response, haha. :P Your clarification does help, though, so thank you. :) I definitely read your initial post differently than was intended. I thought you meant "conflict" in a more general sense, and I read the example you gave of Set urging/advising in ways Sekhmet would not / does not condone as being an example of "one God working against another." :P

Addressing what you meant by it that I initially misread: I do think different deities have unique "attitudes" to Them, for lack of better terms (it sounds so "human-emotive" to me, which I take pains to avoid, but at present I can't think of something better). But I think They ultimately give us the same answer(s) when we go to Them for guidance, ask Them questions via divination, etc. That's been my experience, at any rate, for whatever that's worth concerning something so personal. Having divination done over the same questions, with more than one diviner in the picture beyond myself, asking different deities, I've gotten consistent answers. The way the answers were phrased varied (both on account of the different diviners and which God(s) were asked), and some were a bit more vague than others. Notwithstanding that, the content of the answers was itself ultimately the same. Asking for dreams from a God, and receiving dreams about the same issue from more than one God without deliberately asking, much resulted in the same outcome for me in the past. So, in that sense, I don't think, for example, Set would give an answer to something or advise something contrary to Amun-Re, and vice-versa -- although how They would convey the message would / will vary.

To add, when I've asked my chief deity of the religion I engage in secondary to my commitment to Kemetic Orthodoxy the same questions about a given issue, via divination, I received answers corroborating those I received from the Netjeru.

Putting it another way: when there's a definitive answer, there's a definitive answer, and Who is asked and Who winds up answering doesn't particularly change the ultimate content of the answer. :P

Thank you yet again for an awesome topic and a stimulating conversation, Gezau! (Even though I sometimes misread things and go on tangents, and hopefully this time I didn't misread your post.) ;D

Senebty!
Sedjfai

"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

 


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