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Author Topic: Sobek?  (Read 3487 times)

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Sobek?
« on: March 22, 2017, 01:47:12 am »
Em hotep!

I've developed an interest in learning a little more about Sobek, particularly His connections to Set.  I've read that in some myths, He is known as Set's son, but I guess I wonder *which* and *how many* myths have stated this. Can anyone direct me to any pertinent older threads, or share a little of their experience of Sobek in general?  If anyone has had any experiences of Set leading or introducing them to Sobek or any sense of connections between the two of Them, I'd be interested to hear about that as well.  Thanks!
Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

Offline Sekhepenaset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 12:03:48 pm »
I cannot speak on His connection to Set. 

I had some feeling of Set which I've already touched on in a previous thread as not being very good.  We have a challenged relationship but a relationship nonetheless. 

Sobek was a God Who also scared me.  Both He, Set, and another Name made it onto my RPD questionnaire as Gods who terrified me. 

But I've had interaction with Him now.  It seems like He had some ear out when I wrote that piece on my questionnaire.  After that, He started showing up drunk.  Not kidding.  Drunk.  He reminded me a lot of Kaa from the animated version of Jungle Book when He was like that.   

I found Him easier to approach when He was like that.  He was less terrifying because my original feeling was this super powerful, energetic, primal sort of God and His presence was overwhelming.  But even drunk, He was still intense and scary.  Kaa isn't just kinda "silly" in the film, He's also hypnotic, seductive, charming, and conniving. 

Now, it isn't like that.  He's intense.  He has a voice that reminds me of a crocodile.  Intense, passionate, courageous, a primal force of life...some classic military Father feels since He's a God associated with the military.  I get lots of aquatic, Egypt-at-sundown feels and some water fauna associations with Him too.

I've read elsewhere the Egyptians used to pray to Him near or on the Nile to protect themselves from crocodiles.  Crocodiles are really tricky creatures.  A lot of croc-attacks still happen near the shores of infested rivers when people come to fetch a pail of water.  They leap out and attack then.

I remember in my research a tame crocodile was kept in His temple and fed.  That's always been an interesting devotional act to me

I know someone who is devoted to Him and hope others post about Him.  Most people seem to focus more on Sobek-Ra than Sobek >_<
Senebty -
Sekhep

Sa Aset-Serqet
Mery Wesir her Bast

Offline Tjemsy

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 12:15:35 pm »
I think Sobek was under "curious about" on my questionnaire. I noted that he seemed to have a similar personality to Set, and was interested in that. I'm very fond of Set, and if Sobek was similar to him, wouldn't it follow that I would be fond of Sobek? Then, I had a dream of a very primal Sobek, swimming in the Nun, and woke up absolutely terrified. The amount of power coming off him was overwhelming.

Sorry to say that I've sort of Nope'd him at this point. >>
Tjemsy - "Two Red Ones"

Sat Sekhmet her Set
Meryt Heru-wer, Bast, Wepwawet, Taweret, Nebthet,
 & Nefertem-Imhotep

Offline Rehenhersenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 12:38:45 pm »
Em hotep!

I am the houses only remaining active daughter of Sobek. There have been others before me, I think about three children, but they have either left the temple or become inactive, leaving me the most recent and only remaining child. I would love love love to chat about him privately in addition to here, I always love the opportunity to talk about my Father.

I think with Sobek being such a primal god and concerned with the very basics of human necessities  (eating, sleeping, health, sex, etc) he could have a connection with those things more so than other deities. Early on in our relationship we discussed making a deal where all offerings for him would go through me, in the sense that all I eat and drink and how I sleep is in devotion to Him. It's a very intimate and in-depth devotion, one we've talked about but haven't locked down because it's a huge commitment. When Sobek's devotees or children are sick or not feeling well, I'm sure in some way he feels it too. Any depressive spell that hits me at times are largely pushed through by his help and as soon as possible. Sobek is very into tossing his children into the waters and watching to see if you'll sink or swim. You can swim for awhile, but eventually you get tired. When that happens he'll rise out of the water and let you rest on his back.
Game of Thrones may not be your cup of tea, it certainly isn’t everyones, but Sobek as a deity reminds me a good deal of Dothraki warlord Khal Drogo. Sobek doesn’t scream military father to me, he is much more familiar with his children than that stereotypical cold manly man who doesn’t bother with the kids. Sobek carries his children in his jaws. He’s intimate.
My Father's back is my boat through life, and I know I wouldn't be here without his prodding and pushing. Hope this helps! Feel free to PM me.
Sat Sobek her Taweret ,
Meryt Hethert-Sekhmet, Set, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Khnum, Wesir, her Khepera

(Rehenhersenu- "Relies on Two")

Offline Sarytsenuwi

  • Rev Kaitlyn, Ordained Clergy - Sema Kau Bak
  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 02:50:59 pm »
Em hotep!

Thank you for raising these questions, it gave me a good opportunity to re-visit Te Velde's Seth, God of Confusion, which I enjoy.

On page 150 of this text, Te Velde discusses the connection between some of Set's names and their association with crocodiles. In this chapter he notes that crocodiles have been referred to as children of Set, though not in the sense of a mythical connection (he contrasts the reference against Wesir being the father of Heru-sa-Aset) but more so arguing that the power and danger of crocodiles could also be attributes of Set, and thus crocodiles might also be viewed as His messengers/children, as well as those of Sobek.

That said, Nit is recognized in some texts as Set's consort. (Nebt-het being the primary consort, but Nit - as well as the foreign Anat and Astarte - being other partners connected to Him in various locations and times). Nit has also been acknowledged as Sobek's mother: we celebrate a procession where Sobek goes to see Her on II Akhet 2-3. Set is not, to the best of my knowledge and research at this time, ever directly connected to the two as a pair -- certainly not with the evidence we find of other triads (i.e. the Theban triad, Amun, Mut, and Khonsu.) But is it plausible that you might experience Them together? At least in my humble opinion, sure. ^_^

I hope this helps -- and as always, if someone has further research to share or thoughts to add that builds on or adjusts what I've written here, please do share.
Rev. Sarytsenuwi
(Standardbearer of my Two | Porta-estandarte de meus Dois)
Sat Set her Bast | Meryt Heru-wer, Hethert-Nut, her Heqat
W'ab Nekhen Medetsen net Nekh | Fedw for Set and Bast

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 06:06:15 pm »
Em hotep nefer, Kathleen! :D

Adding to Saryt's commentary above, Set also has a Netjeri attributed as a son called Maga, which assumes the form of a crocodile and in the Duat is a frequent opponent of the deceased. J. F. Borghouts presents a couple spells involving Maga in his monograph Ancient Egyptian Magical Texts, and Salima Ikram briefly mentions Maga within a broader summary of crocodiles in Ancient Egyptian religion here.

Crocodiles are representative of a huge array of deities beyond Sobek (and in connection to Sobek), the crocodile-bodied, falcon-headed theophany being a topic of curiosity. That particular theophany is most commonly and conveniently explained as one of Re-Heruakhety, if not simply "Horus." However, there are several obscure Heru-Gods at Hebet / Hibis Temple in the Khargeh Oasis which are explicitly labeled as Heru-Gods-other-than-Heruakhety (first that comes to mind is "Heru Who Warms the Heart," I'll get to Him presently), and take composite forms, with crocodile bodies and anywhere from one falcon head (as in one of the Gods shown in the fifth register of the reliefs on West Wall, Sanctuary A, "Heru Who Warms the Heart") to two falcon heads (Room H2, East Wall, Register II, "Heru Who is in Sumenu" -- Sumenu being, quite notably, a cult center of Sobek-Re) and more. See also See also De Garis Davies, Norman. The Temple of Hibis in El Khargeh Oasis. Part III: The Decoration. Publications of the Metropolitan Museum of Art Egyptian Expedition, Vol. XVII. 1953.

Senebty!
Sedjfai
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 06:30:39 pm by Sedjfaiemitui »
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

Offline Tatjasobekra

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2017, 06:47:26 pm »
I've seen the myth you're referring to, but never chalked it up to much since it doesn't seem to be a repeating factor, personally.
Sat Sobek-Ra
Meryt Wadjet, Djehuty, Bast her Aset-Serqet

Mudang (korean shaman-priest) ; God Divination, Kut Ceremony, Prayerwork by appointment.
{ Temple Fundraiser ; tumblr }

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2017, 08:55:32 pm »
Thank you to everyone for your responses! 
Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2017, 09:24:26 pm »
Te Velde discusses the connection between some of Set's names and their association with crocodiles. In this chapter he notes that crocodiles have been referred to as children of Set, though not in the sense of a mythical connection (he contrasts the reference against Wesir being the father of Heru-sa-Aset) but more so arguing that the power and danger of crocodiles could also be attributes of Set, and thus crocodiles might also be viewed as His messengers/children, as well as those of Sobek.

This I find very interesting.  Do you think that this could reasonably be extended to alligators?  I understand the ancient Egyptians wouldn't have associated alligators with any of the Names since they aren't native to Egypt, but many of us here have experienced modern associations between various Names and animals *similar* to their original theophanies. 

Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

Offline Taji

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2017, 09:28:28 pm »

This I find very interesting.  Do you think that this could reasonably be extended to alligators?  I understand the ancient Egyptians wouldn't have associated alligators with any of the Names since they aren't native to Egypt, but many of us here have experienced modern associations between various Names and animals *similar* to their original theophanies. 


Not related to Sobek, but I "get" Bast-Mut as an American great cat. Mountain lion. Panther.  Cougar. 

So I think it's entirely likely that Sobek could choose to manifest as an alligator.
Tasedjebbast,
Daughter of Bast-Mut
Beloved of Yinepu-Wepwawet & Sekhmet-Hethert
Beloved of Set & Heru-wer Who Are the Bawy
Beloved of Aset-Serqet

Offline Tatjasobekra

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 06:29:17 am »
Certainly is possible. It's understandable that we would see Sobek/Sobek-Ra as more than just a crocodile - especially if you've never been around or seen a croc, really. Alligators are confused for crocs often and they're close enough in the animal kingdom that it's not at all a stretch.
Sat Sobek-Ra
Meryt Wadjet, Djehuty, Bast her Aset-Serqet

Mudang (korean shaman-priest) ; God Divination, Kut Ceremony, Prayerwork by appointment.
{ Temple Fundraiser ; tumblr }

Offline Salqu

  • Beginner
  • Country: nz
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2017, 10:00:50 am »
Sobek is cool, he can be a harsh teachers and sometimes a bit of a grumpy gator! But his heart is in the right place :) He shares some similarities with Set in that regard. I am pretty sure he is one of Set's sons.

Offline Saheru

  • Country: au
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2017, 11:15:02 am »
Not going to lie, I do love Sobek. Maybe because all that raw power just confronts us with the truth of our circumstances. As I've grown through various circumstances the last four or so years I've come to appreciate that direct tough-love from different sources.

I see Sobek as the embodiment of raw, primal truth. The truth that you may deny, or push away, run from, or hide from - that sooner or later will surface, and you will either (to quote Shemsu) learn to swim, or you'll sink.

I mean we've all been in those situations I am sure, that we see a monster level of truth that we've been maybe running from, and then once it's come out - and we've processed it, worked through it, and reconciled it, we are filled with relief and peace.

I think that's Sobek's blessing too. The peace, relief and reconciliation after a storm.

He might throw things about the place - but he does so to allow us to grow.

I also feel that Sobek and Khnum would get along rather well, as I read somewhere that Khnum could also take the shape of a crocodile to take things and shake them. So maybe there's a connection?

"You and I together are a single creation. Neither death nor spite nor fear nor ignorance stops my love for you..." - Hymn to Wesir from Awakening Osiris: The Egyptian Book of the Dead by Normandi Ellis.

Offline Shezep_shuty

  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2017, 11:49:57 am »
Sobek showed up as one of my beloveds, and I still visit him from time to time.

He's very earthy, very ancient, and very interested in the basic survival physical side of life. He's usually telling me to calm down.  Did you know that too much thrashing can kill a crocodile as excessive amounts of lactic acid builds up in the muscles? Watch, wait, then strike as quickly and efficiently as possible. He also tells me that life is death and death is life. He's drowned me under a log before. He's shared his kill and fed me too.

I agree, the actor who played Khal Drogo reminds me of him. I can't wait to see how he does with Aquaman.

I don't know, I think every Netjeru has a scary side. That's why they all depend on Ma'at to maintain the balance. They call Sobek The Rager, but I can think of several other Netjeru who could easily go that way too if provoked.
Kemetic Mystic
Heru-sa-Aset is my copilot.

Offline Pairysenu

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Sobek?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2017, 01:06:33 pm »
This thread is really interesting to me, as some of the names I'm closest to are Sobek, Set, and Nit.

From research, I've found that Nit is also sometimes portrayed as crocodile headed, and has some association with them. I haven't found any references to Nit and Set. Though, as this is a religion where many different things are simultaneously true, I don't think it impossible that they could both be a parent of Sobek, but not together. 

From the personal, I often experience both Set and Sobek in tandem, in that they like showing up at the same time. I also sometimes have difficulty telling them apart. As in, I can sense that someone is there, and I know it's one of the two of them, but I'm not sure which. I wouldn't necessarily say one led me to the other, but Set showed up in my life shortly after Sobek did.

So whether or not they're related, in my personal practice they seem to be fairly close.  ;)

𓅮
"The One Who Acts For Two"
Meset Sekhmet-Hethert her Set
Meryt Heru-wer her Sobek

 


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