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Author Topic: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat  (Read 5875 times)

Offline alae93

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« on: September 21, 2017, 04:53:24 pm »
She came up as a Beloved in my RPD yesterday.  Holy heck that's a lot of aspects, and while I see Her mentioned occasionally, I'm not seeing a lot of public discussion of Her nature.

I read around a little bit about how to understand tri-aspected Names, but I'm still a little in the dark.  If you've been approached by Her (or by 2/3 of the trio in aspect, or by any other triple-aspected Name), I'd really love to hear about your perceptions.

Here's my stab at Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat:

At first glance, She seems almost cosmic.  Nit is creatrix via Nun; Nebhtet is the very moment of ending, as well as the temple itself; Seshat is that which gives order to things, and which makes the plans and lays the foundation for the temple.  Together, They would seem to function in a generative fashion -- bringing quiet end to the old, and forging order out of Nun's chaos.

I perceive a lot of force and heat in Nit, but there's something quiet and cool in Her, too -- weaving, working, crafting, planning the arrow's path.  Nebhtet is quiet and calm and present in one of the most intimate moments we have -- grief -- and she also is patroness of brewing, which is slow and transformative.  Seshat's order-making (in both words and architecture) is calm, artful, cool.  In other words, they are all present (individually and jointly) in the minute, as well as the cosmic.

I am not clear on if Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat is the same as Nit-Seshat-Nebhtet, etc.  Even if they are different, I'm not sure it's very easy to tell the difference, as a human being.

Again -- I know I can and should (and will have to!) form my own opinions and perspectives, but I welcome yours.
mes-en-Aset-Serqet; meryt Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat, Khepera, her Set.

Online Rev. Shezatwepwawet

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Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 05:41:33 pm »
Em hotep!

I've send you a PM with links to resources about all three of Them. Seshat is my first Beloved, and was the only one for several years, and She is super close to me. They also melt into each other more than I have experienced with any other aspected Name. I also get a LOT of Nit with my Seshat and at this point I just accept it as something which is. And as far as I know when the Nit side is up on the Three, She is always as Nit-Nebthet-Seshat. In theory it could be Nit-Seshat-Nebthet but I have never seen it happen.

Several years ago at Retreat we were talking about the Gods and got on to the three of Them. Something Hemet said then still sticks with me and helps me understand them.
Seshat takes no side.
Nebthet has no side.
Nit IS the side.
Senebty,
Zat (She who makes Sekhmet laugh)
Sau apprentice | Fedw | The Library | zat@kemet.org

Sat Wepwawet-Yinepu her Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS) meryt Seshat-Nit-Nebthet her Heru-wer her Aset-Serqet

Offline Celeste913

  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 06:58:31 pm »
I find it really interesting how each aspect seems to be a part of creation. It kind of reminds me of the trio of goddesses common in European pantheons (the Fates and Norns being the most prominent examples). I wonder when worship of this aspected deity became known.

Offline alae93

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 02:46:39 pm »
First off -- I did get the links, Zat, and thank you!  :)  That's very interesting, about how it's Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat and never Nit-Seshat-Nebhtet -- although IIRC Seshat-Nebhtet is attested to.  I am also not sure if most humans could readily distinguish between Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat and Nit-Seshat-Nebhtet.

I should be clear that the "cosmic" view is first impressions on my part, and not gospel.

TBH I probably need to refine my sense of Nit alone, possibly before I move on to aspects.  I first encountered Nit by way of warlike Anat, and was actually a little surprised to discover that Nit is a creatrix (even though I seem to remember Anat having comparable aspects -- She nurses the dusk and the dawn, for instance).

My previous focus on her warlike aspects is is part of why I perceive Nit as "hot" (to pull in a metaphor from other African traditional religions).  Rectifying Nit's role as creatrix with Her warlike aspects, in my head, is a little rough, but not impossible -- creation often involves a passionate drive, after all!

The analogy about "sides" makes me shiver, in a good way :)

I would hesitate to describe Them as a triple Goddess in Indo-European fashion, but I am struck by what I perceive to be dynamism, in how these three aspects work together.  I feel almost like They move in to fill each others' "gaps":  tempering Nit's heat; bringing an extra dose of drive and purpose to Nebhtet and Seshat.

I'm also reminded of what I gather was a very common syncretism with Nit in the ancient world:  Athena (who seemed to halfway-grab me very early on in my spiritual life; I now expect it was actually Nit-Athena).  Athena strikes me as very "cool" and calm thanks to Her wisdom (much like Seshat), but with a white-hot fire under the surface.

Thank you, everyone, for your advice and your assistance.
mes-en-Aset-Serqet; meryt Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat, Khepera, her Set.

Offline Itenumuti

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 04:59:00 pm »
::waves:: My Mother is Nebthet-Nit-Seshat, so I can offer a little personal insight into Her, which may help with understanding Nit-Nebthet-Seshat? (Standard disclaimer: Everything I say is personal experience/opinion and may or may not be true for anyone but me. :) )

From what I know, the order of the three Names does matter. For me, it means that my Mother presents as Nebt-het directly, and shows me more of Nit than of Seshat.

My impression of Nit is very much the creatrix, the Great He-She, the archer, the Nun. It's this weird coexistence of this enormous, unfathomable, pure-potentiality nun-of-creation and a more distinctly-shaped, embodied, active aspect of Nit-the-archer Who protects what She created. Speaking of "hot" and "cool" - Nit-the-archer is red or "hot" to me, while Nit-the-creatrix is blue-black or "cool" to me. I have no idea how She can be both at the same time, rather than having an aspected duality where She is one or the other at any given time. Nit is boundless and uncontainable. She does what She wants. ;)

(In gendered terms, I also get Nit as a very butch woman, thanks to the "Great He-She" part. She's an unapologetic badass. >_> )

Nebt-het... I could talk for hours about, honestly. Rather than making this an even-longer post, I will sum up by saying She holds the space for us and for akhu, and that sacred work is unbelievably important on a personal and cultural level. I have called Her the Lady of Hard Truths, because as patient and gentle as She can be, She does not permit lies, even the ones that would be far more comfortable than the truth. She consoles, guides, protects, shields - but never lets Her charges escape what is true, what is ma'at.

I hope some of this rambling helped? Or at least sparked some thoughts about what They mean to you. :3
Senebty, Tenu
𓇋𓏏𓈖𓏌𓏲𓂉𓏛𓄿𓏭
Child of Nebt-het & Hethert-Nut
Beloved of Ma'ahes, Serqet, & Wepwawet
𓉠𓃕𓄂𓆫𓃧

Offline Teritui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 07:15:22 pm »
I'm happy to see more discussion of triple-aspected deities, there's not a whole lot of it here (or anywhere else it seems sometimes).

So even though I don't have experience with Nit, Nebthet, or Seshat, the OP says it's okay to share commentary on another triple aspected deities, so I'll share some thoughts on Ptah-Sokar-Wesir.

As everyone knows He can be a syncretism or a triple-aspected deity (if I'm understanding everything correctly).

A lot of people seem to share the experience that the name listed first is the closest and most obvious, for me, that hasn't been the case.

After Heru-wer announced Himself, a deity who referred to Himself as Osiris came into my life. I'm not sure if there's any significance in Him using the Greek name, but thinking on it, I think there very well might be.

To explain why I think so: at my RPD Hemet (AUS) explained that at later periods Ptah-Sokar-Wesir starts becoming heavily Wesir emphasized, or more "just" Wesir. She also said I might be interacting with a later form, where Ptah-Sokar-Wesir is King of the dead.

My Father seems to be involved with death and birth (or rebirth), which makes sense, as Ptah-Sokar-Wesir is the entire cycle, from life to death. He has some Kingship ties, but so far He has never emphasized that part to me.

I've always been low-key obsessed with Ptah and with creation and creativity, and I think that's influenced by my Father.

I'm not sure what role Sokar plays- I've never been interested in Him very much, and I've never perceived any interest from Him. But I do have the feeling it's important that I know He's part of the triple-aspect (or syncretism).

My Wesir seems to be a bit more "loud" than how other people experience Him, though He does love metaphors and making you work to understand what He's trying to say, lol.

So, there's my experience.
Teritui: I respect my Two Fathers
Daughter of: Ptah-Sokar-Wesir and Heru-wer
Beloved of: Sekhmet-Hethert, Set and Taweret
Sau apprentice

Offline Senui-Iry-I

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 12:46:53 am »
Nit-Nebthet-Seshat recently became a beloved of mine. While I've always been drawn to Nebthet and somewhat to Seshat, I don't really get any of them. The Nit aspect is pretty much the only aspect I've experienced and in my experiences she's very fierce. I'd agree with Itenumuti's description of Nit. She is serious and strong and will hold you to your word. She takes what she wants and does what she wants with no apologies. When I was having the additonal beloved divination done, Hemet (AUS) told me that Nit gave me no choice but to accept her (good thing I was already prepared to do so!). Despite her fierce nature, I feel she has a deep love for all of creation.
I haven't done any academic research on her so I can only give how I perceive her though, so all of that is just how she appears to me.
Senui-iryi  (Iryi)
Sat Sobek-Ra her Hethert-Sekhmet,
Meryt Set her Yinepu-Wepwawet her Nit-Nebthet-Seshat
𓆋 𓁥  𓁣 𓁢 𓋔
Sau apprentice

Offline alae93

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 12:47:41 pm »
That's interesting about Ptah-Sokar-Wesir, especially how the focus moved toward the final Name in the cluster.  My Mother turned out to be Aset-Serqet; I have a little trouble with Aset (due to my personal history with my family), so I'm approaching from the Serqet end and moving toward Aset.  I gather many Aset-Serqet people experience Her as VERY strongly and definitely Aset doing Serqet's work, but it heartens me to know there's precedent (both personally and historically) for approaching an aspected Name from the "back end" so to speak.

I'm also heartened to hear Iryi's story, too -- that sometimes we best understand just one aspect in a set, and that's OK.

It sounds like so long as we're working sincerely to understand an aspected Name, and can make contact with at least one in the set, we are doing well.  :)  I imagine the Netjeru understand that we can't always grasp Them in all Their complexity, especially when we're getting to know Them.
mes-en-Aset-Serqet; meryt Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat, Khepera, her Set.

Offline Asetemsatweret

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 01:35:23 pm »
Em hotep,

I'm a beloved of Seshat-Nit-NebtHet, and my Seshat is very NebtHet heavy. I experience Her as an incredibly vast and silent presence. Ironically, She is the only name who has directly spoken to me; it was towards the end of the beginner's class, before I decided whether or not to have my RPD, and She whispered Her name to me. I didn't even know who She was before that. I still waited quite a few months after finishing the class to go through with the RPD, but it was ultimately my experience with Seshat that decided me. I take this to mean that even though I experience Her as a somewhat passive presence, She is actually very active and dynamic.

I've not connected with Nit directly, though I suspect that the vastness I feel from Seshat comes from Her and that the silence comes from NebtHet.

Senebty,
Emsa

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

-Emsa

"Aset [is] on the Great Throne"
Sa Aset-Serqet
Mery Amun, HetHert-Sekhmet, her Seshat-Nit-NebtHet

Offline Asetemsatweret

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2017, 01:42:19 pm »


My Mother turned out to be Aset-Serqet; I have a little trouble with Aset (due to my personal history with my family), so I'm approaching from the Serqet end and moving toward Aset.  I gather many Aset-Serqet people experience Her as VERY strongly and definitely Aset doing Serqet's work, but it heartens me to know there's precedent (both personally and historically) for approaching an aspected Name from the "back end" so to speak.

Also, if you ever want to talk about our Mother, please feel free to send me a personal message.


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

-Emsa

"Aset [is] on the Great Throne"
Sa Aset-Serqet
Mery Amun, HetHert-Sekhmet, her Seshat-Nit-NebtHet

Offline Temseniaset

  • Sema Kau Bak
  • Shemsu-Ankh
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Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2017, 02:43:33 pm »
Aset-Serqet kid here!  Mother comes to me very motherly.   Serqet is VERY quiet for me.
Senebty
Temseniaset,
Sat Aset Serqet
Meryt Wesir Sokar, Yinepu Wepwawet, Khepra, Heru Sa Aset, Ra
Fedw diviner

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2017, 04:08:36 pm »
Em hotep nefer, all!

This is a great thread. I've enjoyed reading everyone's input here about "tri-aspected" Netjeru. :)

The following has nothing to do with Nebethet-Nit-Seshat or any combination thereof, except in the way of being another tri-aspected deity, so hopefully this isn't a derailment of the thread. If so, feel free to remove it. :)

In terms of tri-aspected deities, I have for a Father the (thus far in Kemetic Orthodox history, anyway) rare combination of Amun-Re-Banebdjedet, also simply referred to as Djefedjef (Within-His-Pupil/Iris, id est the feminine Sun Disc -- that feminine Sun Disc being usually but not always Sekhmet). Djefedjef is Banebdjedet is His form hidden-yet-seen within the feminine sun disc in later Amun Theology. As I have written elsewhere on the fora about Him, He is a set of individuals Whose ends and beginnings are difficult to discern. He is Amun-Re, He is Banebdjedet, and He is both Gods manifesting as the unique (and, frankly, an incredibly diffuse and abstract) Djefedjef referred to in mystical writings pertaining to Amun Theology dating between the New Kingdom and Late Period. He is each of Them individually, and He is all of Them at once.

The way Hemet (AUS) explained it, She said I could express myself as a daughter of Banebdjedet, or as of Amun-Re, or as of Amun-Re-Banebdjedet, and that all three expressions are true. I decided to opt for the latter, because even though it's a mouthful, I think it's the most specific and accurate. ;)

As an aside, since Banebdjedet Djefedjef was revealed as my Father, I have noticed Sekhmet's presence becoming stronger over time. I don't necessarily believe She's a Beloved of mine yet to be "made official," although for all I know that could be true. Nor is She an intrinsic part of my Great Father's identity. All the same, She does "come with" Banebdjedet Djefedjef, as a Wehemut (f. "Herald") of sorts.

To wit, the "original" Mendesian Banebdjedet is a bit different than "my" Banebdjedet -- not in the sense that the former theological underpinnings of His nature are no longer true with Him as Amun-Re Who is Djefedjef, but in the sense that the solar aspects of Him are emphasized to (sometimes very abstract) extremes, and Amun Theology suffuses it in a big way.

Senebty!
Sedjfai
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

Offline Rev. Tjesi

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Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 05:07:20 pm »
I love reading your posts, Sedjfai! <3

Ibi
Rev Tjesi
Tjeset Merut her Reshut net Hethert
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet
meryt Wesir

Shemsu name: Awibemhethert (Ibi)

Offline Celeste913

  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2017, 06:57:22 pm »
...In terms of tri-aspected deities, I have for a Father the (thus far in Kemetic Orthodox history, anyway) rare combination of Amun-Re-Banebdjedet, also simply referred to as Djefedjef (Within-His-Pupil/Iris, id est the feminine Sun Disc -- that feminine Sun Disc being usually but not always Sekhmet). Djefedjef is Banebdjedet is His form hidden-yet-seen within the feminine sun disc in later Amun Theology...

As the poster I quoted stated at the beginning of his post, if this discussion gets too off-topic please move it elsewhere, but I have a question related to this particular deity(ies?). It is interesting to hear of the Sun Disc as being perceived as female, as I have recently studied the Amarna period where the Sun Disc was at first male and by the end was basically abstract. Was the feminine Sun Disc seen as a different interpretation as the Aton or as something completely different?

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Nit-Nebhtet-Seshat
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2017, 08:13:40 pm »
...In terms of tri-aspected deities, I have for a Father the (thus far in Kemetic Orthodox history, anyway) rare combination of Amun-Re-Banebdjedet, also simply referred to as Djefedjef (Within-His-Pupil/Iris, id est the feminine Sun Disc -- that feminine Sun Disc being usually but not always Sekhmet). Djefedjef is Banebdjedet is His form hidden-yet-seen within the feminine sun disc in later Amun Theology...

As the poster I quoted stated at the beginning of his post, if this discussion gets too off-topic please move it elsewhere, but I have a question related to this particular deity(ies?). It is interesting to hear of the Sun Disc as being perceived as female, as I have recently studied the Amarna period where the Sun Disc was at first male and by the end was basically abstract. Was the feminine Sun Disc seen as a different interpretation as the Aton or as something completely different?

Em hotep nefer, Celeste! :D

Essentially, the Sun Disc is in such contexts identified directly with "the," or at least "an," Eye of Re (Iaryt). Otherwise, as you correctly noted, the Sun Disc itself is overwhelmingly either male or regarded in the neuter, which is how it will typically appear in most hymns, both within and outside the scope of Amun Theology. That Sekhmet (or some other Iaryt-Goddess) encloses and protects Amun-Re (and His Most Mysterious of Mysterious Forms, Banebdjedet) is one of the less-discreet elements of the "Amunian" Solar Mysteries.

Senebty!
Sedjfai
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

 


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