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Author Topic: How did the Names create our Ba?  (Read 1286 times)

Offline Midjamuaset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: br
How did the Names create our Ba?
« on: November 06, 2017, 10:54:40 am »
Hotep, Everyone!

I tried to search for something about this topic, but I don't know the best words for the search. So I decided to create a new topic, maybe you can help me indicating some links if it was already discussed.

Well, we have Parents and Beloveds, and we know that our Parents created our Ba. But how was this process? Is there anything specific about it?

And more about this, the Beloved Ones are the Names who help us in this life. But how is it "chosen", "decided", or defined?

I don't know if I could express myself, but let's start from there :)
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 11:15:23 am by Aileen »

Offline Panakhtaset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: br
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 11:35:48 am »
I'll be following this. Didn't find anything either. :'(
Panakhtaset
(The Strength of Aset)
Sa Aset-Serqet, Mery Sekhmet-Hethert

Offline Ra'awyserqet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 12:09:16 pm »
Em hotep Aileen!

I'm going to break this down piece by piece just for ease of response.

Quote
Well, we have Parents and Beloveds, and we know that our Parents created our Ba.
We actually don't have this as canon; whether an individual feels this is true or not is entirely dependent on them and their relationship with their Parents. There have been rare cases where there were no original Beloveds and an additional one came along later.

A Parent or Parents as a creator of the ba of a person is something that was said to a specific person in reference to a specific question. The scenario was essentially this: during a saq (possession of a priest by a Name) a person asked why a particular Name was a Beloved, not a Parent. The Name responded with the Parent being the creator of their ba and the Beloved being the creator of their ka. It was not intended to be taken as canon. It was not intended to be applied to anyone else.

For instance Serqet has never directly or indirectly said She created my ba/ka. My personal stance is They all deal with the ka on some level, because our ka is interacting in life. And we interact with our Parent/s in this life.

Quote
But how was this process? Is there anything specific about it?
So far as I know, the actual process was not directly discussed. For the people who feel this applies to their relationship, they might be able to share what they've been told, learned, or believe.

Quote
And more about this, the Beloved Ones are the Names who help us in this life.
Any Name can help us in life; They don't have to be in our RPD interact with us.

Quote
But how is it "chosen", "decided", or defined?
What do you mean how is it chosen, decided, or defined? Do you mean how our RPD Names step forward for us?

So far as I know in the case of the RPD, They step forward and claim us. I know my Mom claimed me, and that Sekhmet-Mut claimed me too. Yinepu is still a mystery for me, but I assume He claimed me too. In the case of additional Beloveds, we claim Them and They claim us; much like we claim Them when we accept our RPD and become Shemsu. (You can accept an RPD, but not be ready to accept the Shemsu vow, of course.) So in my case, Heru-wer was always there, but I asked to know if He was and it was my choice to accept Him as my Beloved. Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai wasn't always there and I asked if She was. It was again my choice to accept Her.

So I'd say it's an act of claiming on Their part and ours.

Senebty
Ra'awy


Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

(They/them)

Sat Serqet-Aset her Nisut-bity Hekatawy | (aus), meryt Sekhmet-Mut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Heru-wer, her Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai.

Fedw Diviner

Online Djehutyendy

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 12:59:45 pm »
Em hotep!

Quote
Well, we have Parents and Beloveds, and we know that our Parents created our Ba.
We actually don't have this as canon; whether an individual feels this is true or not is entirely dependent on them and their relationship with their Parents. There have been rare cases where there were no original Beloveds and an additional one came along later.

A Parent or Parents as a creator of the ba of a person is something that was said to a specific person in reference to a specific question. The scenario was essentially this: during a saq (possession of a priest by a Name) a person asked why a particular Name was a Beloved, not a Parent. The Name responded with the Parent being the creator of their ba and the Beloved being the creator of their ka. It was not intended to be taken as canon. It was not intended to be applied to anyone else.

For instance Serqet has never directly or indirectly said She created my ba/ka. My personal stance is They all deal with the ka on some level, because our ka is interacting in life. And we interact with our Parent/s in this life.

Hemet(AUS) states in the beginner's course that our Parent(s) do indeed create us, however she doesn't specifically say They create our ba. The Wepwawet Wiki page on RPD does say this, though. The part about Beloveds is confusing because it states that Beloveds create our ka, then goes on to mention this situation in Saq you are referring to and states that the Beloveds do not create the ka. There is no mention that the Parent(s) do not create the ba.

If this is incorrect, should the Wepwawet wiki be updated? (Who updates it?)

Senebty,
Endy
Daughter of Djehuty and Beloved of Hethert-Sekhmet and Geb

Blog

Offline Ra'awyserqet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2017, 01:07:23 pm »
Em hotep Endy

The Wiki was written by one of the Shemsu (I forget who right now), they are the one that updates it. It's not actually run officially by the House.

Creation is something that's not static; so They created us and continue to create us each and every day.

Senebty
Ra'awy

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

(They/them)

Sat Serqet-Aset her Nisut-bity Hekatawy | (aus), meryt Sekhmet-Mut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Heru-wer, her Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai.

Fedw Diviner

Offline Teritui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2017, 08:27:21 pm »
Em hotep Aileen!

I'm going to break this down piece by piece just for ease of response.

Quote
Well, we have Parents and Beloveds, and we know that our Parents created our Ba.
We actually don't have this as canon; whether an individual feels this is true or not is entirely dependent on them and their relationship with their Parents. There have been rare cases where there were no original Beloveds and an additional one came along later.

A Parent or Parents as a creator of the ba of a person is something that was said to a specific person in reference to a specific question. The scenario was essentially this: during a saq (possession of a priest by a Name) a person asked why a particular Name was a Beloved, not a Parent. The Name responded with the Parent being the creator of their ba and the Beloved being the creator of their ka. It was not intended to be taken as canon. It was not intended to be applied to anyone else.

For instance Serqet has never directly or indirectly said She created my ba/ka. My personal stance is They all deal with the ka on some level, because our ka is interacting in life. And we interact with our Parent/s in this life.

Quote
But how was this process? Is there anything specific about it?
So far as I know, the actual process was not directly discussed. For the people who feel this applies to their relationship, they might be able to share what they've been told, learned, or believe.

Quote
And more about this, the Beloved Ones are the Names who help us in this life.
Any Name can help us in life; They don't have to be in our RPD interact with us.

Quote
But how is it "chosen", "decided", or defined?
What do you mean how is it chosen, decided, or defined? Do you mean how our RPD Names step forward for us?

So far as I know in the case of the RPD, They step forward and claim us. I know my Mom claimed me, and that Sekhmet-Mut claimed me too. Yinepu is still a mystery for me, but I assume He claimed me too. In the case of additional Beloveds, we claim Them and They claim us; much like we claim Them when we accept our RPD and become Shemsu. (You can accept an RPD, but not be ready to accept the Shemsu vow, of course.) So in my case, Heru-wer was always there, but I asked to know if He was and it was my choice to accept Him as my Beloved. Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai wasn't always there and I asked if She was. It was again my choice to accept Her.

So I'd say it's an act of claiming on Their part and ours.

Senebty
Ra'awy


Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

OP has interesting questions, but I love this way of describing the RPD. Mutual claiming. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy :).

I'd be interested in any input in how the ba and ka may be created. It may be a Mystery, but it's fun to contemplate.
Teritui: I respect my Two Fathers
Daughter of: Ptah-Sokar-Wesir and Heru-wer
Beloved of: Sekhmet-Hethert and Set

Offline Tamiwi

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 10:20:18 am »
Em Hotep,

Ra'awy had a beautiful post that I echo 200%. I personally believe that my Parents either formed my Ba or helped form my Ba, as I imagine even We need guidance on the 'other side' as fledgling souls in these worlds. I also personally believe that our Beloveds change during the course of our lifetime and through the courses of our lifetimes, and that my Ka will join my Ba before a new Ka is shaped from my Ba to live on in another life; while my current Ka will join my ancestors to shape an infinite existence of countless lifetimes in time. Part of that saddens me, part of it doesn't. Its strange to think that in one way we remain an Akhu and in another we go on to live again; therefore we are perpetually connected to both worlds.

How they are formed are a mystery to me, and one I do not often contemplate. It's almost the same way I do not often contemplate the far reaches of the Universe or what lies beyond a black hole--it's just too 'big' for me. I'm worked on trying to push the limits of my mortal mind to comprehend the sheer vastness of me; but I find myself feeling the same sensation I do when I stand on a ledge over heights I am afraid of.

Either way, the above is not canon; just as what Ra'awy said about the sentiment of the words said in Saq. I think this is a conversation for you and your Parents & Beloveds. I believe they had a hand in our creation, but Netjer is the One in the Many. Perhaps all of Netjer had a hand in our becoming and, like Bagheera to Mowgli, some simply adopt us for a time to see us through the course of our hardships as we work out our place in this world in the forms of certain names that we need. It just may be that I got the impression that my Parents--specifically more Ra than Bast, even though She came first in the lineup--have been there since the beginning, others may not feel the same--and that's okay. All of our spiritual lifetimes are as unique as our 'mundane' ones.
W'abet Nekhen Miu Wer
Sat Bast her Ra her Hekatawy I (AUS)
*Meryt Hethert-Sekhmet her Heru-Sa-Aset*
Fedw Diviner | Heri-sesheta Bast

Offline Senuwierneheh

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 05:10:17 am »
Em Hotep,

Ra'awy had a beautiful post that I echo 200%. I personally believe that my Parents either formed my Ba or helped form my Ba, as I imagine even We need guidance on the 'other side' as fledgling souls in these worlds.

This is my feeling, too. 

I received a religious card from a cousin of mine for my birthday.  I opened it up yesterday. It said:

"From the moment your life began,
you had a Father in heaven
who wanted you to know His heart
and His incredible love for you."
(Roy Lessin)

Dear Cousin didn't know what this would mean to me.  I cried, for I do.  Dear Set has indeed been that.

I then remembered the words from spell 50b in the Book of the Dead, which I have in my shrine:

"A knot was knotted around me by Set
when the Ennead was still in its first strength
before the fighting had started."

Full excerpt:

"Encircled: Excerpts from the Book of the Dead"

"A knot was knotted around me by Set
when the Ennead was still in its first strength
before the fighting had started.

A knot was knotted around me by Nut
in the primeval period, when I had not yet seen Ma'at
when the images of the god had not been created."

From spell 50b in the Book of the Dead
As quoted in "Entangled, Connected or Protected? The power of knots and knotting in ancient Egypt
by Willeke Wendrich in Through a Glass Darkly: Magic, Dreams and Prophecy in Ancient Egypt,
Edited by Kasia Szpakowska, page 256

"A knot was knotted around me by Set, when the Ennead was still in its first strength, before the fighting had started," when my Ba was newly created.  I stood before my shrine, thinking, "Yes, sir!  That's my Ba!  That's my Pa!"

("Pa", not a name I usually call Set, but the rhyming fit in this moment, :) )

Senebty!
Neheh...


Senuwierneheh (My Two, forever)
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Set, meryt Ptah-Sokar-Wesir, Djehuty, her Heru-Wer
Self-care Hethert, Set and Ptah Advocate
𓁥 𓁣 𓁰

Offline Midjamuaset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: br
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2018, 05:03:04 pm »
Thank you everyone for the responses!

If it adds to what you've all said, Aset told me in meditation: "you are the sum of all your lives". I had some signs confirming that the meditation was a real connection to Her and started to think about this.

I think our Ba is not ecstatic. We learn something on each life and this adds to what we are in essence. The thing about the Names claiming us also made sense for me.

This is something that we can only speculate, after all... but I loved what everyone responded! Thanks!!

Offline Pairysenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2018, 08:15:50 pm »
Not to add any more confusion, but this is, after all, a religion where multiple contrasting things can be true all at the same time. :P
"The One Who Acts For Two"
Meset Sekhmet-Hethert her Set
Meryt Heru-wer her Sobek

Offline Daughter

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 09:07:18 pm »
Fwiw I have believed my soul to be created by Bast from long before  I knew of Kemet, and will always see Her as my first Mother and my spiritual Mother. She always has been and always will be with me. Her fingerprints are all over my soul, in all its parts.
Sat Bast meryt Amun, Wepwawet-Yinepu her Set.
*Divined on Sunday, July 22, 2007*

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2018, 02:21:18 am »
Em hotep nefer, all! :D

This is a wonderful topic I enjoy seeing returned-to again and again.

Echoing what Ra'awy said, how we regard our Parents and Beloveds varies a great deal between us. I like to think that it's part of the Mysteries of the Netjeru that there is not and likely can never be any universal, definitive stance on this issue.

For myself, I don't truly know whether Amun-Re-Banebdjedet is my "personal Creator." He is the Creator of everything. I am part of "everything." It's not a unique or profound statement on my part to call Him "my Creator" as such. :P I also don't know whether Set had a hand in the conception of my being and/or my personality. I do know He came to me first and early in my life versus all the other Netjeru I have since come to worship. I do feel He's been involved since I became alive. And, I have no qualms whatsoever with His being declared my "Father," since that has long been the nature of my devotional-relationship to Him, and He is the one Who essentially brought me here in the first place as a believing subject and not just somebody who is fascinated with prosaic Egyptian history.

Additionally, all male deities are "Fathers" in one respect or another, simply by virtue of Their being deities and male. I even call Herishef "Father," even though He's a Beloved. He is also frequently cast as a Creator-deity, and so I call Him "Creator" too.

I don't know how long Herishef has been involved in my life, but despite only having worshiped Him for a handful of years now, I have suspected He, like Set, has been "around" since my beginning as a person, only allowing me to find Him and begin to "know" Him at the opportune time.

As for Yinepu, Who became a Beloved of mine after my RPD; as for Sobek, Whom I've worshiped for years (second in time only to my Father Set) but hasn't yet been (and perhaps never will be) announced as my Beloved; and as for the Netjeru in festival (namely, Min, Khnum, and Ptah-Sokar-Wesir) on the day of my actual birth, etc. :

Yinepu aids me in my creative processes; I regard Him as the "Father of my Art." Yinepu has helped me understand a great deal, guiding me to specific answers as Herishef and Set and Amun-Re-Banebdjedet have. Sobek has buoyed me through some major health crises in my life, and has been a continual, influential presence in my religious life as well. Min, Khnum, and Ptah-Sokar-Wesir all relate strongly to my two Fathers and my "chief' Beloved, Herishef, and have greatly enriched my understanding of my dedicated worship-relationships. Whether any of Them "created" me, either, I really can't say. But they have all made an indelible impression upon my soul, enriching my life and my ka thereby, and I am fairly content with the possibility that I won't ever know any more than that. :)

Senebty!
Sedjfai
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

Offline Yinepuemsaes

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: How did the Names create our Ba?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2018, 06:14:47 pm »
"From the moment your life began,
you had a Father in heaven
who wanted you to know His heart
and His incredible love for you."

This is really beautiful.
Yinepuemsaes - "Yinepu is her protection"
Sat Yinepu
Meryt Bast

 


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