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Author Topic: Male-nut?  (Read 350 times)

Online GugaLopes

  • Remetj
  • Country: br
Male-nut?
« on: November 09, 2018, 08:39:21 pm »
Em hotep everyone,

Can someone tell me why Nut (on the left) on this image have a male-beard and a penis?
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/creation_sexuality.jpg

Thank you all so much!
"I am All That Has Been, That Is, and That Will Be.
No mortal has yet been able to lift the veil that covers Me."
(Quote found on a statue of Nit at Sais)

Offline Ra'awyserqet

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 03:08:53 am »
Em hotep GugaLopes!

So I'm not 100% because it's been a while since I've seen this sort of image, but I'm pretty sure that's ithyphallic Nut. From my understanding She is the Nut that self-creates/self-generates and because of that She can be depicted in a traditional style for masculine figures (note: She's still a female here).

So that would be both the self-generating Nut above the self-generating Geb (because He's pleasuring/"fertilizing" Himself). Because the two of Them can no longer touch, it ends up being up to other Names or Themselves to keep the life-generating creation flow going.

But as I said, it's been a hot minute since I saw this so I might be a bit off on details. I can try to find a reference in one of my books if you like.

Senebty
Ra'awy
(They/them)

Sat Serqet-Aset her Nisut-bity Hekatawy | (aus), meryt Sekhmet-Mut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Heru-wer, her Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai.

Fedw Diviner

Online GugaLopes

  • Remetj
  • Country: br
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2018, 07:20:05 pm »
I have never heard of a self-generated Nut and Geb! I would love to know if you have more informations on it

Thank you so much!!
"I am All That Has Been, That Is, and That Will Be.
No mortal has yet been able to lift the veil that covers Me."
(Quote found on a statue of Nit at Sais)

Offline Maen

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 03:34:16 pm »
em hotep,

this is really an interesting depiction! I found a version where the glyphs around the figure are clearer, but I couldn't really read it all.
I'm not sure if the figure is Nut, however. It's identified as what I believe reads "wetjesu" - the "one raising up", and the title after this, which I could read clearly, is "Khontamenty" - foremost of the western ones, so that's usually a title of Wesir
Then there's a section about "Making the sky, making the earth, making the Duat, the great god" - but I'm not sure how to interprete the "making"... could be "the creator of", but I'm not sure about the grammar. It's all male forms, however.
And on top there are more titles that I don't understand in detail. Something about "Lord of the Hill" - the primeval mound Ben-ben, perhaps? And "vizier of the god, in the middle of Edfu"

Does anyone have a more professional translation?
Because so far it looks like a really interesting mix of titles that fit  both a creator god and a lord of the duat.
Of course, the "one who raises up" indeed sounds like a male version of Nut... very cool.

The one on the bottom, by the way, is Geb, Father of the Gods... those glyphs were pretty easy.
Just really interesting that he is shown in the act of masturbation, which you'd rather expect from Atum, in the act of creating Shu and Tefnut


senebty

Ma'en
Ma'a-en-Hethert ("rightly belonging to HetHert")
Daughter of HetHert-Sekhmet, beloved of Nut, Djehuty and Nit-NebtHet-Seshat

Online GugaLopes

  • Remetj
  • Country: br
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 08:46:51 pm »
Em hotep Ma'aen

Thank you for your help! This is really great and made me even more curious about the image hahaha
I'll wait if someone have more answers about it, if not, I'll send it to the Ask the Nisut (AUS) area, Hemet may have some informations on it

-Guga
"I am All That Has Been, That Is, and That Will Be.
No mortal has yet been able to lift the veil that covers Me."
(Quote found on a statue of Nit at Sais)

Offline Ra'awyserqet

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2018, 09:48:36 am »
Em hotep!

Actually I couldn't find the ithyphallic Nut reference I had seen before; it must have been in a book I rented or no longer own.

I did find a few things that implied this is Nun opposite Nut, who can be a pair/couple.

That's really cool Maen!

Senebty
Ra'awy
(They/them)

Sat Serqet-Aset her Nisut-bity Hekatawy | (aus), meryt Sekhmet-Mut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Heru-wer, her Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai.

Fedw Diviner

Online GugaLopes

  • Remetj
  • Country: br
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2018, 11:24:17 am »
Em hotep, Ra'awy

Nut paired with Nun? That is quite new to me
So in this case, this would be Nun and not Nut? If so, why is he in the sky position?

Thank you!
"I am All That Has Been, That Is, and That Will Be.
No mortal has yet been able to lift the veil that covers Me."
(Quote found on a statue of Nit at Sais)

Offline Ra'awyserqet

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2018, 07:52:16 am »
Em hotep Guga!

So from my understanding of the cosmology of our theology, Nut (and Geb and Shu and therefore all created beings) are surrounded by Nun. Nut is also occasionally paired with Nun in Her form of Naunet. So in this space He's mirroring Her and the small Khentyamenti figure would make sense in this space too; because the Duat exists within and is also surrounded by Nun and there are a number of images of this.

This is the only full sized image I could find. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nun_budge.gif

Senebty
Ra'awy
(They/them)

Sat Serqet-Aset her Nisut-bity Hekatawy | (aus), meryt Sekhmet-Mut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Heru-wer, her Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai.

Fedw Diviner

Online GugaLopes

  • Remetj
  • Country: br
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 11:36:24 am »
Em hotep, Ra'awy

This makes so much sense! And in a way it is very similar to the image you send me now, and I've never seen the whole picture of it, just the image of Nun raising the Solar Barke, and another question appeared to me now: Why is Wesir in this rounded yoga-like position?

Thank you!
"I am All That Has Been, That Is, and That Will Be.
No mortal has yet been able to lift the veil that covers Me."
(Quote found on a statue of Nit at Sais)

Offline Ra'awyserqet

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: Male-nut?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 09:28:13 pm »
Em hotep Guga!

From my understanding Wesir is encompassing/enclosing the Duat were our Akhu stay. He's giving them a defined place within Creation because before Him there was no place for the dead to go (nor a way for them to be 'alive'). Wesir and His domain exist in a new space that He formed/forms.

Senebty
Ra'awy
(They/them)

Sat Serqet-Aset her Nisut-bity Hekatawy | (aus), meryt Sekhmet-Mut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Heru-wer, her Hethert-Nut-as-Nehmet-Awai.

Fedw Diviner

 


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