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Author Topic: Reality Check?  (Read 3303 times)

Offline Setjezusenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: ca
Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2019, 09:41:32 am »
I guess my concern is that if we use subjective morality basically anything could be justified? For example, I feel that oppression is inherently wrong, but if morality is subjective than nothing is inherently wrong because someone out there thinks it's right? And that stresses me out a lot.

That's not specifically a spiritual issue though - it's something that I get anxious about in other moral discussions too.

I guess I also struggle to understand what Ma'at is, if not the force of balance in the world that brings us back to Zep Tepi. And Zep Tepi is good, so Ma'at is also good by extension, and anything that hurts is only hurting because it needs to happen for our future wellbeing, like setting a broken bone.

As opposed to things like oppression, abuse, and so on, which just hurt people.
Child of Hethert-Sekhmet and Set, beloved of Heru-wer and Yinepu-Wepwawet

Offline Taji

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2019, 09:55:35 am »
I think ma'at is the balance of order in the Universe, the ebb and flow, the reset . . . and that it is inherently good.  It may not always be pleasant, but it's always good.  You know how in the Narnia books they say, "Aslan isn't a tame lion, but he is good." (I have a thing for benevolent lion deities.  :D).  It's kinda like that.

Anything that ma'at does contributes to creation.

Anything that is isfet contributes to uncreation.  This is NOT, mind you, the necessary destruction that paves the way for new growth.  That, while unpleasant, is also Ma'at.  Isfet is the uncreation, that destroys and leaves behind nothingness. It undoes. Like the echthroi in A Wrinkle in Time.

So yes.  Netjer will on occasion do things that we find troubling or unpleasant.  But it is never ever evil. 


« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 09:57:07 am by Tasedjebbast »

Offline Khenmetemnut

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2019, 10:00:41 am »
Tasedjebbast hit the nail on the head I think!

This is definitely a topic for discussion, and I hope to get more clarity from talking about it with more people and hearing more perspectives.

I hope I haven't made you more anxious! If I have, I apologize!
~Kheni or Khenmet

"Lying on the breast of Nut"| Enriched by Nut
Khonsu & Yinepu & Nut & Sekhmet & Amun

Offline Setjezusenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: ca
Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2019, 10:02:26 am »
It's okay! I was anxious today anyway about something else, so it wasn't you don't worry. I do think discussions about this are important to have sometimes. I'm thinking that we might actually be on the same page and just describing it differently, actually  :)
Child of Hethert-Sekhmet and Set, beloved of Heru-wer and Yinepu-Wepwawet

Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2019, 12:11:01 pm »
I will put this out there, though I suspect it's not what the House as a whole believes, and I will accept that, but...  I believe the gods, like us, have dark sides.  Sometimes that dark side comes through.  True, balance, but a disruption to what is generally considered the calm of ma'at.  About evil, I do not know...  I do not believe the snake is to blame for every misfortune.  Take from that what you will.  Also, change...  I realize that change is necessary and can be harsh, cruel... but can change also not be selfish of the one seeking the change?  I'm not saying there's no purpose, but the purpose does not consider the ones forced upon?  Dare I say, the gods may not be all we want them to be?
"Give sorrow a Sailor smile."
~ "Makenai" by Hanazawa Kae; Sailor Moon Stars, Season 5, episode 200

"Beyond this road, running on far and long, must surely be something we can believe in."
~ "Pure Heart" by Rikki; Final Fantasy VII, "Aerith's Theme"

Offline Taji

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2019, 01:35:51 pm »
I genuinely think that most misfortune has very little to do with the gods at all. And that the evils that humans do to each other is not Their fault.  Nor is misfortune evil by definition.  Oftentimes, it's just a real bummer.

I mean, the gods are also eternal beings. We are too, albeit very differently.  The gods know that our existence continues after death and consequently, I don't think they see death as a big deal or any sort of evil.  For us . .. it's a big freaking deal.  Just one example of how I don't think we can or should compare our perspective to the gods or cast any sort of moral judgment on Them. 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 01:38:04 pm by Tasedjebbast »

Offline Tjemsy

  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: us
Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2019, 10:46:05 am »
Understanding Ma'at has never puzzled me. More than "what is good," Ma'at is (in my opinion) "what is right." I believe that the Netjer do what is right, and that what is right can change depending on the situation. What is right can be hard to pin down. Do they do Ma'at all of the time? Perhaps not. I am also very strongly of the opinion that our gods are flawed. But the vast majority of the time, yes, I would say they do Ma'at.

I do believe that Ra lost his temper and set Sekhmet on humanity. I do believe that Sekhmet got a little too enthusiastic in her smiting. SomeOne once said that it is hard to be perfect, even for a god. I think it is...strange for us to wave our hands and call all of these things metaphors, as if our gods must be perfect. Why? Why must they be perfect?

I do not necessarily believe that Ma'at is calm. For one, fighting back against your oppressors. Sometimes it gets loud. Messy. Sometimes it even gets physical. But to defeat your oppressors is to attain the highest good, for you and for others. Set is good for this. His qualities of being "the rebel" and the one associated with uproar and disorder need not be viewed as a bad thing. Take those and use them to fight for what is right. That is Ma'at. There is no one right "way" to do Ma'at. Fighting with Heru-sa-Aset was for his highest good, and for the highest good of the people of Kemet. And killing Wesir was for the highest good of the Akhu.

I do not believe the uncreated is to blame for every misfortune...but I also do not believe that makes Netjer responsible. And I do not believe that Netjer has unlimited power with which to stop every bad thing.

I think this would be an interesting question for Hemet: If our gods are flawed, does that mean they do not always do Ma'at?

Hoping some shred of this made sense. XD
Tjemsy - "Two Red Ones"

Sat Sekhmet her Set
Meryt Heru-wer, Bast, Wepwawet, Taweret, Nebthet,
 & Nefertem-Imhotep

Fedw Diviner |

Offline Yinepuemsaes

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Reality Check?
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2019, 06:55:01 pm »
Also, all myths are recorded by humans and interpreted by humans.  Maybe some things get 'lost in translation'.
Yinepuemsaes - "Yinepu is her protection"
Sat Yinepu
Meryt Bast


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