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Author Topic: Female version of Male-Names  (Read 512 times)

Offline Asethepetwi

  • Shemsu
  • Country: br
Female version of Male-Names
« on: May 31, 2020, 03:20:25 pm »
Em hotep!

I shared this with the people in discord a few weeks ago and I'd like to share here for both saving it and sharing with you|.
I gattered all the female versions of Male Gods here. Most of them I got from the LAGG, bseides Wenneferet, which I found on Henadology's entry on Nebt-het.
Quote
Amunet
Atenet
Atumet
Beset
Hehet
Hekat
Heruet
Keket
Nunet
Rat
Sobeket
Tatenenet
Wepetwawet
Wenneferet
Yineput/Yinupet
I just think this is so interesting, I had to share it hahahah

Senebty,
Hepetwi
Asethepetwi (Aset embraces me)
Sat Aset-Serqet Meryt Nut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Bast, her Nit-Nebthet-Seshat

l Sau apprentice l
𓊨 𓃕  𓃣  𓃠  𓋋

Online Wenunisenu

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Female version of Male-Names
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 04:40:18 pm »
Thanks for sharing! I’ve come across a lot of these before (I like finding lesser-known female Names for whatever reason). I believe Wepetwawet is a title of Nit and Heruet/Horit has a complex story aside from being a female Heru. Tatenenet may also be an alternate spelling of Tjenenet but I might be wrong on that. I vaguely remember there being a female version of Set out there as well...
Child of Geb and Nut, Beloved of Sekhmet-Mut

Wenuni for short

Pronouns: They/them

Offline Asethepetwi

  • Shemsu
  • Country: br
Re: Female version of Male-Names
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2020, 10:33:04 pm »
Thanks for sharing! I’ve come across a lot of these before (I like finding lesser-known female Names for whatever reason). I believe Wepetwawet is a title of Nit and Heruet/Horit has a complex story aside from being a female Heru. Tatenenet may also be an alternate spelling of Tjenenet but I might be wrong on that. I vaguely remember there being a female version of Set out there as well...

Yees Wepetwawet is indeed a title of Nit! Tatenenet appears on a hotep di nisut formula in conterpart of Tatenen.
And about Set, I didn't find anything about a female-Set on the LAGG.
I also want to start searching for male versions of female names. I know there is a Serq-Hetyt (a male-Serqet-Hetyt), but I need to search for more.
Asethepetwi (Aset embraces me)
Sat Aset-Serqet Meryt Nut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Bast, her Nit-Nebthet-Seshat

l Sau apprentice l
𓊨 𓃕  𓃣  𓃠  𓋋

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Female version of Male-Names
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2020, 10:39:08 am »
Em hotep nefer, all!

I can confirm, there has never been an attested occurrence of a feminine stX. I'm not sure who claimed that and where, but it's not a real thing in any original texts concerning Set that I've analyzed in the CME and LE stages of the language. That someone (or someones) who might've made that claim may have been confused by documents like P. Wilbour, dating to the 20th Dynasty, which list human individuals both male and female who possess theophoric personal names associated with Set -- specifically in the area of Sepermeru, one of the largest cult centers of Set during the Ramesside Period. The vast majority of the 42 Set-named individuals mentioned in this document are presumably male; only 3 are explicitly female.

As for the wp(t)-wAwt title, that gets pretty prolific in LE texts, comparatively speaking. As Leitz et al. mention in the LAGG volumes, it gets tacked-on to many Gods' names in various contexts, from the Eye of Heru to Ma'at-as-Goddess-in-Uraeus-form. None of these tackings-on, however, imply any "sameness" with nor any "feminine counterpart" status to the very clearly male God Wepwawet. All it does is denote a specific kind of "doing," in a specific context. :) Where it concerns Nit, for example, I have seen it occur in the form of wpt-wAwt-nTr, meaning "[She] Who Opens the Ways for [the] God." The God in question is typically the Creator in His Hnw-Barque, namely Amun-Re and the special form of Amun-Re called Kamutef, "Bull of His Mother." Nit is cast as the Mother and Wife of Amun-Re most often in His hymns (but not in any exclusionary sense -- Nit and Amunet in LE temple reliefs and accompanying texts are interchanged with some frequency, implying more sameness between one-another than of either between Amun-Re. This happens at Hebet temple in the Kharga Oasis alone a significant number of times, and this draws substantially from Theban theology. Hebet isn't by any means an isolated incident). In these roles, Nit is very Primordial and very Solar. In order for the God to engender Himself, a feminine Being (in this case, Nit) must be present to bring about the birth. One of the ways to interpret this is that Nit takes on a very Nut and very Mehet-Weret (and the Mehet-Weret association is VERY explicit and plainly-named) type of role. In addition to being like the sky and like the water, She "opens" the sky and the water for Him, in order that He may come forth and proceed.

Tatenen also gets wp- titles and activities ascribed to Him, namely in the Amun hymns I've studied, and in that sense He is the "One Who Divided (wp-n) the Two Lands in Men-nefer/Memphis (tAwy m inb-HD)." That is in no way, shape, or form saying that He is the same as Wepwawet, nor is it saying that what Tatenen does is at all the same as what Wepwawet does at any time or place. :)

As a broad point, I advise people not well-aquainted with the language to avoid assuming that names and titles which appear to be similar to others are functionally "same-same." Egyptian is a very dynamic and multifarious language which was increasingly in its later stages "engineered" to be inaccessible. It's complicated, and sometimes deceptive on purpose, for a variety of reasons both orthographically-aesthetic and theological.

These Goddesses Whose names appear to be "just feminine versions of X" and the secondary, widely-applied terms/epithets need to be very carefully evaluated on a case-by-case basis and in their original contexts. Simply knowing the etymology of a name, and whether it's grammatically masculine or feminine, doesn't tell you even remotely "everything" you need to know. That a God and Goddess may be in some instances presented as a "pair" (like Amun and Amunet) does not mean that They are identical, much less "just versions" of one-another. ;)

I hope this helps! ;D

Senebty!
Sedjfai


« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 10:49:23 am by Sedjfaiemitui »
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

Offline Asethepetwi

  • Shemsu
  • Country: br
Re: Female version of Male-Names
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2020, 12:20:44 pm »
Thank you so much for everything you said, Sedjfai. You brought very important points here. I Apreciate <3
Asethepetwi (Aset embraces me)
Sat Aset-Serqet Meryt Nut, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Bast, her Nit-Nebthet-Seshat

l Sau apprentice l
𓊨 𓃕  𓃣  𓃠  𓋋

Offline Sedjfaiemitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Female version of Male-Names
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 05:10:29 pm »
No problem! I'm glad it was helpful. 😙

I also meant to but neglected to add that srq-Htyt simply means "[Who] Causes Throats to Breathe." This is an attribute and epithet of Gods in the role of Creator. 🙂 In the Amun hymns at Hebet, for example, we see in the Hymn to the Bau of Amun:

sDm.tw xrw=f nn mAA.tw=f Hr srq Hty.t nb smn ib n bkA.w Hr ms.w=s anx TA.w pr im=s, which means "His [Amun's] voice is heard, but He is not seen, while letting every throat breathe; He is the one Who reassures the pregnant concerning her children, so the newborn which comes forth from her lives."

*Edited because my phone is a butt with its tiny keys.

Senebty!
Sedjfai
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 05:13:44 pm by Sedjfaiemitui »
"Endowed by Two Fathers"
𓁣 𓁠
Sat Set her Amun-Re-Banebdjedet
Meryt Herishef, Wesir-Narefy, Heru-Wer, her Yinepu

 


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