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Author Topic: The 42 Purifications  (Read 316336 times)

Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2007, 09:19:39 am »
Thank you so much!   Just goes to show, eh....words DO have power!  

I'll be more careful when I open my mouth to speak!

In peace,
Rebecca
"Know me, O God, if You know me, then I will know You."

Offline Raheri

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2007, 03:45:13 pm »
Hotep Rebecca!

There is another version of this myth which Hemet (AUS) discussed with us at the last Dua (multiple versions of everything are found in Egyptian religion). In it she talked about the meaning of the word "Apep." It basically means "what is spit out." It refers to being accidentally created by Nit when she was speaking the Names of creation, by a drop of spit that fell from her mouth without intention. I guess the phrase, “say it don’t spray it,” would apply here (yes...very bad joke).  :eek:

The Uncreated is basically nothingness itself. It is a force that seeks to undo creation. It is strictly malignant and not a part of life or the universe. This is one of the reasons why the Egyptians celebrated each day being a new beginning. Apep was conquered by the sun barque of Ra.

Senebty,
Son of Wesir | Heri-sesheta

"O my heart which I had from my mother,
Do not rise up agianst me as a witness in the presence of the Lord of Things;
Do not bring up anything agianst me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West."

Offline Huyitu

  • Shemsu
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2007, 05:25:37 pm »
Quote from: Herupaneb
isfet is the product of the Uncreated, or the nameless one. Tefnut spat it out while creating Geb, and spoke that it was not supposed to happen, and her Heka caused the Uncreation.


I have been trying my best to understand Tefnut lately and this bit of information seems to stand out to me. If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you tell me where you got this information from so that I might read it myself?
Son of Wesir and Ra, Beloved of Wepwawet-Yinepu

Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2007, 11:11:22 pm »
Em hotep,

I'm new here and I'm seriously considering converting to KO, only I don't know how to break it to my family. How did it work with you guys?

Anyway, to get to the real topic, I have a question about the 1st purification. I understand it pretty well, but I had this complex situation with my friends where one included the other in our group by playing a little joke on her. The other overreacted, got her 'all-powerful' father involved, pulled some strings, and got the first in trouble with his superiors, also hurting his chances to get jobs etc.

The second didn't feel at all guilty, although it just made her popularity among the rest of the group fall dramatically. I took matters into my own hands and, using my position in the group as the 'counsellor', influenced her feelings until she considered his feelings as well.

By donig this, was I doing isfet? I meant no harm, only to right what I felt should have happened. But now I'm not so sure, and I'm worried.

Offline Sekhmetyanu

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2007, 12:30:31 am »
Actually my in laws took it awesomely, my husband has been more then supportive and even my in laws are cheering me on. I haven't told my own family but they wouldn't understand. I come from a pretty big Roman Catholic country and my family already thinks I'm being brainwashed, long story ask me about it, so telling them about this wouldn't ease their worries.

As to you're second question, I think you did the right thing. I mean this first person was obviously trying the hurt the second one by getting her father to cause harm to this second person, which wasn't really right to do. Really you just made her think about her actions and made sure that she considered this second persons feelings. For that I salute you.

But this is my opinion, and could not be the opinion of anyone else.
  My LJ 
Sekhmet Greets (Me)
Sat Sekhmet-Mut.
 Meryt Bast, Aset-Serqet, Djehuty

Avatar courtesy of Temwa

Offline Djehutyendy

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2007, 01:18:45 pm »
Em hotep!

Quote from: Miw_sher
I'm new here and I'm seriously considering converting to KO, only I don't know how to break it to my family. How did it work with you guys?


I found the best way to tell someone, especially your family, about something big such as religion, is just to come out and say it. I just made sure they were in a situation where they wouldn't have to leave so we could talk for a little, and then I just said, "So, I think I'm going to convert to Kemetic Orthodox." I dunno, it worked for me, but then again my whole family is not religious at all. They still don't really believe that I believe in this stuff... but they do know I am practicing it. Once I become a shemsu and all that, maybe they will believe me more? I dunno... but this isn't something you can really beat around the bush with, I found.


Quote
The second didn't feel at all guilty, although it just made her popularity among the rest of the group fall dramatically. I took matters into my own hands and, using my position in the group as the 'counsellor', influenced her feelings until she considered his feelings as well.

By donig this, was I doing isfet? I meant no harm, only to right what I felt should have happened. But now I'm not so sure, and I'm worried.


It doesn't sound like you did isfet at all... I could be confused, but it sounds as if you didn't really have anything to do with the initial act and you were just trying to right what your friends did wrong? If that's the case, then no you did not do isfet. If you did have something to do with the initial act, well then I really can't tell because I don't know the story enough. A joke can be innocent, but it can also be tainted.

I'm in a bit of a rush to go, but I hope that helped.

Senebty
Angela
Daughter of Djehuty and Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS) | Beloved of Hethert-Sekhmet and Geb
Fundraising Bak | Fedw Diviner | Sau Apprentice
Blog

Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2007, 04:41:56 pm »
Thank you both! That puts my mind to rest immensely, you have no idea!

Senebty,
Miw-sher

Offline Raheri

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2007, 07:36:43 pm »
I think that people as individuals can rarely do something that would be considered isfet. There are of course those exceptions, but overall giving advice on manners wouldn't be considered one of them. If that was so then Dr. Phil and Oprah would be up to the neck in isfet.
Son of Wesir | Heri-sesheta

"O my heart which I had from my mother,
Do not rise up agianst me as a witness in the presence of the Lord of Things;
Do not bring up anything agianst me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West."

Offline Raheri

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2007, 08:25:28 pm »
Hotep family!

Purification #3

Hail Beaky-one, coming from Khmun, I do not harbor enemies.

This is a tricky purification for me. It calls on one of my Beloveds, Djehuty, from his ancestral home. Why is Djehuty called in this specific purification? Djehuty was the heart and tongue of Ra. He was the means by which Ra's will was made into speech. Since the written and spoken word was Djehuty's domain, then words spoken against others could be considered "harboring enemies."

We no longer live in a society where everything is easily defined in simplistic black and white. Things are more complex these days. Who are my enemies? I can' think of anyone I wish harm on specifically, or who I want to see unhappy. But are there people who I harbor resentment towards. When they offer me a "good morning," do I grunt and walk away? Are there people when I see coming to talk to me, that I turn and walk the other way? Are there friends or family members that I still hold grudges against for whatever past sin I feel they inflicted on me? Or do I see people out to harm me even when that wasn’t their intention?

I do harbor enemies at times, in my heart, words, deeds, and inaction. I will continue to pray that Djehuty can help me overcome these faults so that I can say honestly and completely, "I harbor no enemies," not even the ones in my own heart.

Senebty,
Son of Wesir | Heri-sesheta

"O my heart which I had from my mother,
Do not rise up agianst me as a witness in the presence of the Lord of Things;
Do not bring up anything agianst me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West."

Offline Djehutyendy

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2008, 08:57:47 am »
Em hotep!

To me this purification seems like one of the more straight forward ones.

Quote from: Raheri

We no longer live in a society where everything is easily defined in simplistic black and white. Things are more complex these days.
 


I agree that things are not black and white. Although, I am sure the ancient Egyptians didn't have just black and white, either.

I perceive "I do not harbor enemies" to be somewhat synonymous with "I do not hate." I think this supports moderation, balance, and ma'at. To hate and harbor enemies is an extreme and it disrupts the balance. No matter what we will always like and dislike, love and hate. But I feel that not letting the hate blind us, by not holding grudges, etc, is enough to fulfill this purification.

I think it's also interesting what you say about why Djehuty may have been the one called upon. Again, it makes me feel more conscious of words. I used to just babble all the time but as I learn more and more about KO, I am learning about the importance of language and words.

I'm going to continue striving for moderation and balance, and also continue to hold my tongue more when necessary!   ;)

Senebty
Angela
Daughter of Djehuty and Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS) | Beloved of Hethert-Sekhmet and Geb
Fundraising Bak | Fedw Diviner | Sau Apprentice
Blog

Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2008, 10:50:59 am »
Hotep!

I am happy to to see this thread; I am always up for 'food for thought'.  

To me, the idea of not harboring enemies is one that encourages me to take whatever slights the day offers me, process them and then let them slide away from me.  In other words, doing my best to not 'harbor' those feelings.  

This is hard for me.  My family holds grudges and it has been an ongoing process for me to unlearn this behavior.  Some days, I am more sucessful than others but, ideally, while I may be angry or hurt by something someone said or did, I try to take appropriate action and let whatever it is go.  

I view the anger or hurt as a motivation for me to act . . . to vocalize my feelings or take some other action that resolves a situation instead of stuffing the feeling and pulling it out to chew on later.  It seems to me that this constant going over of past slights is the essence of 'harnoring enemies'.
Senebty,
Cal

Offline Raheri

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2008, 06:34:28 pm »
Hotep family!

Purification #4

Hail Shadow-swallower, coming from Qernet, I do not murder (men).

According to the text, this purification invokes Ammit, the creature which devours the souls of the deceased who are not True of Voice. Also interesting to not is that this purification is to be said twice. This ponders a question: why? It is so important to say this statement that once isn't good enough? Do we just need to make sure our words were not misinterpreted?

Accordingly it might also have a mystic association. Ammit's purpose is to destroy the ka, thus causing a second death. Hemet notes that maybe this purification is to help in prevented the second death.

Overall, I can safely say I have not murdered, nor do I have the intention to in the future. I decided to look up "murder" in the dictionary and was quite surprised by the definition.

According to Random House Webster's Dictionary:


Murder - the unlawful killing of a person, especially deliberate or premeditated.

So it is only murder when the law says you can't? It make me think, so how do I define murder? Is it murder when it is deliberate or premeditated? Is it not murder when my country's laws say it is okay (which opens a huge door of ethical questions such as soldiers, capital punishment, euthanasia)? I am not saying any of these is or is not murder, but it is something I have to think about and discover what it means to me. This is a very complex argument.

Much to contemplate. How do you feel about this purification?

Senebty,
Son of Wesir | Heri-sesheta

"O my heart which I had from my mother,
Do not rise up agianst me as a witness in the presence of the Lord of Things;
Do not bring up anything agianst me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West."

Offline Djehutyendy

  • W'ab Priest - Lay Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2008, 09:57:14 pm »
Em hotep Raheri!

I always have defined "murder" as the act of taking away another's life... I feel like human beings never have an excuse to take another's life, both animals and men (unless it is to eat. Even then, it shouldn't be reckless killing where there is waste, etc). I feel that if I am to kill even a bug, I am committing murder... This may seem out of line, but who am I to decide that I can take the life of a spider or roach just because it is living in my house, which by the way was originally his house which man has built on top of? With that said, I still have found myself sometimes killing bugs because I panic and instinctively kill them before I can catch and release them outside.

But that doesn't affect this purification because it is speaking specifically about men. But with the previous said, I personally don't feel that war, capital punishment, etc can be justified. It is all murder in my eyes. The one thing that gets me, though, is self defense. If something/someone attacks you, then I do believe you have the right to kill to protect yourself.

Senebty
Angela
Daughter of Djehuty and Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS) | Beloved of Hethert-Sekhmet and Geb
Fundraising Bak | Fedw Diviner | Sau Apprentice
Blog

Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2008, 04:18:56 am »
What a wonderful topic! I am only a newbie but I shall try to add to the discussion

Purification #3 - Good grief I hope I don't pass over anytime soon. I don't think I can honestly say "I harbour no enemies". I'm terrible for holding grudges. One in particular springs to mind. I met a girl in my third year of university. She was a pain in the backside but bubbly and chatty so we sort of became friends. As the year progressed she became more annoying. She would flirt with my long-term boyfriend, scream at me if I sat next to him in the car, turn up at his room at random hours of the night. Then she started to encrouach onto me hobbies. She would take over and push me out of the activited that are centred around my hobby. (theres lots more to it but I could go on forever!)

I spoke to some friends on a different forum (without using her name) about how to deal with her. She's not the sort of person that you can say "hey, you're really bugging me" to. Somehow she saw what I wrote and realised I was talking about her. She sent me text saying htat I was insecure and how I was bringing negativity around her all the time. I was relieved to be rid of her but now I'm constantly angry at myself and her for making me feel bad for so long. Then I feel guilty that it might be my fault, despite that fact that all my friends say her behaviour was wrong. Sigh, this will be a hard one to shake off

Purification #4: In my book, killing is only acceptable if in defence of yourself or your loved ones (this means countrymen too). However it doesn't cover those in armed forces fighting a war they started and are enjoying killing the 'enemy'. I think anytime where someone kills and feels some kind of satisfaction from it is murder. This could also include capital punishment. How many people have sat watching someones execution and felt glad? I'm still stuck on the euthanasia part. I don't agree with suicide but if someone is in severe pain with no hope of recovery then surely it's cruel to keep them alive?

Re: The 42 Purifications
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2008, 06:50:56 am »
Hotep, all!

Personally, I think that folks are reading too much into Purification 4 - the text says, specifically, murder and Raheri has cited the definition of murder in the post.  So, if we are talking about the unlawful killing of another human being then most of us should be able to make this statement truthfully.  While I am certainly a proponent of doing minimal harm whenever possible, I do not believe that this is what is being asked here. Rather, it seems to me this is a fairly straightforward statement with a straightforward answer.    

Now to me, the tricksy thing would be, what is the exact translation of the word cited as "murder" and what was the Kemetic definition of that word.  One of the problems with looking at ancient ethical standards is that we tend to view them from our own modern POV.  How did those of Kemet define "murder"?

I would love to hear some comments from the language/culture scholars out there :)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 06:51:26 am by Caledvolc »
Senebty,
Cal

 


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