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Author Topic: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at  (Read 22981 times)

Offline Raheri

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2010, 10:49:01 am »
*My own UPG on cursing*

Cursing is a tool for those who do not wish to challange themselves. It is easy to curse something, it is harder to go out and actually do something productive to fix it.

Senebty,
Raheri
Sa Wesir-Sokar, mery Nut her Djehuty
Heri-sesheta Wesir

Offline Aashemmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2010, 11:05:55 am »
There are cursings, and there are bindings. There are also defensive magicks. I feel there can be a difference between these things. Personally I have performed defensive binding magicks to protect myself when my life was in danger. I do not regret it one bit. However, some might consider the action I took to be a "cursing". Depends on your point of view, and again, how much of a pacifist you are.

Sometimes the most productive thing you can do is to defend yourself if you are truly in danger. In my case, I was being threatened with physical harm and took magickal action in the hopes it would keep this person from invading my home, so I wouldn't have to cause him physical harm with a weapon.

If you're wondering why I didn't simply get a restraining order, please ask yourself if you would like to appear in court, in person, with someone who raped and assaulted you, if you would like to carry around a document with their name on it everywhere you go, also paying a fee to obtain said document, and if such a document would truly provide protection in the event of a physical assault. Experience with local law enforcement has led me to conclude that they would not be much help in the event of such assault; a most unfortunate situation indeed. In some cases, getting a restraining order against a former abuser exacerbates the situation by stirring up anger in the restrainee.

Defensive magickal workings, cursings, and what have you should of course be approached with extreme caution and great thought on what it might entail in terms of ma'at, your own personal karma, or however you think of these things. And of course I am speaking here from more of a Wiccan perspective, in terms of what most would consider spell work. I do not pretend to represent the Kemetic Orthodox viewpoint on such things.

Sat Sekhmet-Hethert her Bast, Meryt Shu her Sokar-Wesir.

Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2010, 12:12:41 pm »
Aashem, I've had a restraining order against someone. I think while it IS supposed to give you legal protection against someone, it's also so they can come down harder on them if they DO violate it.

Also I think it might depend on your state, I never had to appear in court with the person I was getting the order against...
Timu

Sat Aset, meryt Wepwawet her Renenutet


Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2010, 03:42:41 pm »
M Htp!

Sometimes distance can make it impossible to go out and physically do anything about it.  What if the person lives in another town/state but you divinations have shown this is the person responsible for your suffering?

I like the Lycian Rede better: "Harm none, do what you must".  If takes into account that sometimes to protect yourselves, harm must be inflicted upon others.  
I also keep in mind that most of the Names were invoked in times of war against Egypt's enemies.  I sincerely doubt Sekhmet was prayed to to go to the enemy and ask them to stop their meanness and hurtful speech.  Most likely the AE had other things in mind as to how a malicious person(s) should be stopped.  But that's just my own opinion.  A lion is not known for negotiating.  On the contrary they're known for taking action (usually by ripping their opponents throat out) rather than sitting down and talking about it.

Do what you feel you must.  It's not my place or anyone else's to judge you.  I'm not in your situation and until I am, I have no real idea of how I might react.  Just remember there are always consequences to our actions (for good or bad).

Take care,

Senebty
"Do not be arrogant because of your knowledge, but confer with the ignorant man as with the learned. For knowledge has no limits, and none has yet achieved perfection in it." - The Maxims of Pthahotep

Son of Hethert-Mut/Heru-Wer Beloved of Yinepu, Set and Djehuty

Offline The Tai'awepwawet System

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: scotland
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2010, 04:35:56 pm »
I like the "Harm no one, do what you must" idea.

I don't consider binding and the like because I don't want to challenge myself. I consider it as a last resort, because I've done what I can, because nothing else has worked, because of limits of distance, etc etc.

Sometimes the nicely nicely approach just doesn't work. It's not a sign of weakness to admit when you've tried long enough.
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Offline Arienihethert

  • Tawy Bak
  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: us
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2010, 05:03:57 pm »
Quote from: Raheri
*My own UPG on cursing*

Cursing is a tool for those who do not wish to challange themselves. It is easy to curse something, it is harder to go out and actually do something productive to fix it.

Senebty,
Raheri


I like that. I'd rather call the cops/whatever the situation requires. Try the direct route first.
Look out the window. And doesn't this remind you of when you were in the boat, and then later that night you were lying looking up at the ceiling, and the water in your head was not dissimilar from the landscape, and you think to yourself Why is it that the landscape is moving but the boat is still?

Offline Aashemmuti

  • Shemsu
  • Country: 00
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2010, 05:12:33 pm »
Yes, the efficacy of restraining orders and cops can vary widely depending on your state and local area. In my case, I did attempt to go through those channels, and was basically blown off by the local law enforcement division. And in my state, I was told that you do have to appear in court with the offender, and also pay a fee to the state. One can recoup that, in theory, from the offender but that would take some doing, like collecting a civil debt, which is not always easy or worth one's time & energy.

I'll probably exit this thread here, as it's reviving some memories I'd really rather not dwell on. My actions worked insofar as that person is now out of my life, and as far as I'm concerned he's best banished from my mind as well. Thanks folks though, for the excellent discussion!
Sat Sekhmet-Hethert her Bast, Meryt Shu her Sokar-Wesir.

Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2010, 05:13:54 pm »
Quote from: Kheper
I sincerely doubt Sekhmet was prayed to to go to the enemy and ask them to stop their meanness and hurtful speech.


I pray that my enemy sees the light, that when I stab him in the eye his soul will not eternally burn.

I do not ascribe inherent moral status to curses.  I consider them a tool that I would promptly use if I felt I really had to.  Thing is, though, seriously, has anybody wronged me that bad?  I like sticking to defensive magic, anyway, so that hopefully I won't need to do stuff like that.

I really don't think it is (or should be) a question of whether in some cases you should go to the cops or cast a curse.  That, for me, is like debating whether someone should take their child to the hospital or cast a healing spell.  The answer is, if you believe spells are effective, there is no reason you shouldn't do both.

Also I am forced to think of times when the justice system just doesn't work.  One of the courts in my area, for example, has a very long history of treating stalking, rape, harassment, and beating of women as a "boys will be boys" issue and I would have a really hard time thinking anybody in that situation was a coward or going the easy route if they used a curse.  And quite frankly, I'd hope it worked for them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Setkheni_itw »
Son of Set and Wepwawet-Yinepu.
Beloved of Sekhmet-Hethert, Heru-Wer, and Aset-Serqet.

Offline ubenet

  • Guest
  • Country: us
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2010, 07:59:47 pm »
Quote from: Setkheni_itw
I would have a really hard time thinking anybody in that situation was a coward or going the easy route if they used a curse.  And quite frankly, I'd hope it worked for them.


thank you. as one of those people, i appreciate it.
ubenetsenu - "two appear shining"
sat Sekhmet-Mut her Khonsu
meryt Wesir her Serqet-Aset

tarot and heka by request

Offline Arienihethert

  • Tawy Bak
  • W'ab (priest)
  • Country: us
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2010, 09:05:23 pm »
Quote from: Setkheni_itw
I really don't think it is (or should be) a question of whether in some cases you should go to the cops or cast a curse.  That, for me, is like debating whether someone should take their child to the hospital or cast a healing spell.  The answer is, if you believe spells are effective, there is no reason you shouldn't do both.


Just to clarify my position: I agree that both are viable options, and I know that sometimes doing things the normal way is hard or not productive, to put it mildly.

But I do also believe that because we are exist here on the planet physically and socially, that it only makes sense to do what can be physically done. I would personally do that first before resorting to magic, but that's just me. I'm not trying to say that anything anyone has mentioned doing here is wrong, just that I would do things differently. In my life, I have had more experiences with magic not working because there wasn't enough seen-world work backing it up than the reverse.

Please, don't anyone take me personally. None of my comments were intended as attacks, and I'm wrong just as much as anyone else.
Look out the window. And doesn't this remind you of when you were in the boat, and then later that night you were lying looking up at the ceiling, and the water in your head was not dissimilar from the landscape, and you think to yourself Why is it that the landscape is moving but the boat is still?

Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2010, 11:34:00 pm »
 
Quote from: Arienihethert
In my life, I have had more experiences with magic not working because there wasn't enough seen-world work backing it up than the reverse.

Please, don't anyone take me personally. None of my comments were intended as attacks, and I'm wrong just as much as anyone else.


I can only speak for myself, but I didn't feel attacked by you or anyone else who said that people should go through mundane legal channels, and I also don't think you're wrong.  I'm sorry if I looked like I did.  I do have a tiff with how some people who admit to having used "popularly objectionable" magic are treated, but I'm not really seeing that here.

I also wholeheartedly agree with the first sentence here and it reminds me of what Raheri was saying and something I swear I just typed somewhere... apparently it wasn't here, maybe MysticWicks or something.  One of the problems with all magic is that too often it becomes a replacement for real work.  So someone will do a love spell but not actually go out and meet people, or do a money spell and then not look for a job, or do a spell to help them pass a class but never study.  And then they wonder why the spell failed.

That doesn't mean that you can't use it, though.  Personally, I am of the opinion that magic is a gift given to us by the Gods that should be used often and not just saved for when things get really, really bad.  I think that belief is perpetuated in a way by the way people turn these things into a "one or the other" situation.

Of course, if one does feel that drive I would say pick the mundane option pretty much every time.
Son of Set and Wepwawet-Yinepu.
Beloved of Sekhmet-Hethert, Heru-Wer, and Aset-Serqet.

Offline ubenet

  • Guest
  • Country: us
Re: Cursing the unjust /balancing Ma'at @ Kheper
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2010, 11:31:48 am »
i wasn't hurt by what anyone in particular said, it's just the general trend that was getting to me.
ubenetsenu - "two appear shining"
sat Sekhmet-Mut her Khonsu
meryt Wesir her Serqet-Aset

tarot and heka by request

 


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