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Author Topic: Isis & Aset  (Read 27779 times)

Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2009, 10:27:27 pm »
Quote
Is the "Egyptian Isis" (for lack of a better way to word it), viewed as a bastardization of Aset that happens to be a deity in and of herself, or is she viewed as an Egyptian deity that is outside of KO?


First of all, never in my wildest ravings, would I refer to any deity as a 'bastardization' of anything.  Period.  
Nope, no way, no how. SO very not happening.

Second, as others have mentioned before, I see Isis and Aset as two very different deities.  I am Kemetic Orthodox, so while I view Isis as Egyptian (granted a late period & Greco-Roman Egyptian, and even a goddess, I am neither a devotee nor a follower of Her.

Incidentally, I've the same opinion about Anubis & Yinepu.  I've seen a Roman era statue of Anubis dressed as a Roman...and it bothered me on a very fundamental level - and was NOT my god.
--[color:#6600CC]Khusisokar[/color] ('Sokar Stirs')
Son of [color:#6600CC] Sokar-Wesir [/color] and [color:red]Hekatawy I[/color] (AUS!)
Beloved of[color:#3333FF] Nefertem,[/color][color:#009900] Min,[/color] and[color:#663300] Wepwawet-Yinepu[/color]

*Fedw diviner for [color:#6600CC] Sokar[/color]*

Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2009, 11:05:19 pm »
Well, I think I've had my question answered enough to satisfy me now. Thank you for all of the responses. I would word it another way to see if I can get even more responses, but I really can't think of another way to word it.

Heh. I like picking apart little details!

Offline MeritAset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: au
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 02:47:12 am »
Quote from: Khusisokar
Quote
Is the "Egyptian Isis" (for lack of a better way to word it), viewed as a bastardization of Aset that happens to be a deity in and of herself, or is she viewed as an Egyptian deity that is outside of KO?


First of all, never in my wildest ravings, would I refer to any deity as a 'bastardization' of anything.  Period.  
Nope, no way, no how. SO very not happening.




While the deity Herself is not a bastardisation, the act of merging Her with Aset could be considered so.

Just my 0.02

Senebty,
MeritAset - The One Whom Aset Loves
Sat Aset, Meryt Heru-Wer

Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 10:32:54 am »
*clears throat*
As a bastard, I take issue with y'all taking issue with the word "bastardization."

Funny story... so, this one time, my guru was telling us how we shouldn't criticise other people's religions while loveing our own, because it's like saying "my mother is good and yours is a [censored]."  My problem/confusion was/is that, well, my biological mother IS a [censored], (like, professionally and everything) so I still, to this day, have trouble understanding why I shouldn't criticise certain religions.  (Although I often refrain, in an attempt at good manners.)

(And before anyone gets offended, I'm [mostly] kidding.  [I am a bastard in the literal sense though.])
Child of Sekhmet-HetHert, Beloved of Amun-Ra and Khonsu

¿Que es la vida? Un frenesí.
Qué es la vida? Una ilusión,
Una sombra, una ficción,
Que el mayor bien,  es pequeño;
Que toda la vida es sueño,
Y los sueños, sueños son

Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 10:34:01 am »
Odd.  The forum censors the word [censored], but not the word bastard.  
Child of Sekhmet-HetHert, Beloved of Amun-Ra and Khonsu

¿Que es la vida? Un frenesí.
Qué es la vida? Una ilusión,
Una sombra, una ficción,
Que el mayor bien,  es pequeño;
Que toda la vida es sueño,
Y los sueños, sueños son

Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2009, 10:34:58 am »
Now I feel the overwhelming urge to start spewing every cussword I can think of to figure out which ones it censors and which ones it doesn't.  (I'll try to contain myself though, and go home and have lunch instead.)
Child of Sekhmet-HetHert, Beloved of Amun-Ra and Khonsu

¿Que es la vida? Un frenesí.
Qué es la vida? Una ilusión,
Una sombra, una ficción,
Que el mayor bien,  es pequeño;
Que toda la vida es sueño,
Y los sueños, sueños son

Offline Tarytenyinepu

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2009, 10:51:57 am »
sorry, had to lol

In a lot of the online gamse I've played, they just put an ellipsis ("...") in place of the word

XDDD *still lol-ing*
Taryt En Yinepu "Respect for Yinepu"
Sat Yinepu-Wepwawet her (Hekatawy Alexandros)|, Meryt Sekhmet-Hethert her Djehuty her Montu
--Sau Apprentice--
"The best thing in life is to wake up tomorrow." -- Uncle Jack

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2009, 11:01:48 am »
Hotep :)

I hope folks are not getting the idea that Kemetic Orthodoxy turns up its nose, religiously speaking, at "Isis." We don't. We do acknowledge that for many, Isis is a most definite goddess (and it should be apparent that many in the House recognize Her Presence as well.

I should pass on a wee story. I was in Philae temple a few years back on my first trip to Egypt. Although the island and the entire temple was extremely crowded that day, we had managed to make our way to the sanctuary room (which does not contain the actual naos, by the way, but the plinth is there.)

While in that room, trying to quiet my thoughts, I confess I was doing a bit of inward moaning about various things:
---that there were so many people that I could not have real private time in that room;
---that most of the people there probably had no notion of the value of that religion or even any credence in the gods or that particular goddess;
---that anyone who did have any notion of that goddess knew Her quite differently than did I.

I realized I just wanted everyone to go away. Then clearly in my head I heard Aset's voice saying "Let them all be. Their reasons are their own--but they still came to see Me."  And I knew behind those words, She would not let them be completely untouched by that visit. And I knew too, that it did not matter, as I tried to argue, that they were going to call Her "Isis" there. I remember feeling like She chuckled a bit then, softly and subtly. Her response was something like "But, I have many Names, after all. They can call Me what they like. I will be Who I am."

So--I think, Isis is Aset is Aset is Isis etc etc etc. Our limited vocabulary and thinking (come on, you know you have to admit that we don't really always GET it or are able to express it fully when we DO get it) might impel us to explain that "Aset turned into Isis" or that "Aset is Isis under an earlier name" or that "Isis and Aset are two different deities" or that "We say Aset they say Isis." But what we are really just saying is that we use names for the gods we know.

Let's not get bogged down in debating "names" for Deities that--probably somewhere in Their area of the universe, think of Themselves completely differently than we may ever know :)  FOr example...somewhere in the deepest recesses of my own personal UPG, I have become fairly certain recently that my Mother Aset, Great of Magic, Throne that She is...has a completely different name for Herself. She just *answers* to "Aset" for our sake ;)

Senebty!

Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2009, 02:36:45 pm »
 
Quote
I have become fairly certain recently that my Mother Aset, Great of Magic, Throne that She is...has a completely different name for Herself. She just *answers* to "Aset" for our sake


If I recall correctly, the Ancients believed that everything had both the name by which it was known, and its Ren, or true-Name.  Its Essence, if you will.  We know from stories that Aset "tricked" Ra out of His Ren so the She might heal Him, and through the knowledge of His Ren, gained power.  It follows, then, that She would as well.  I'm sure this isn't coming out quite right, but I think you get what I mean.  

Gene says: "Yes this is exactly the same as with the names of faerie creatures.  They will give you a name by which to call them, but if you find their true name, you may control them. Well, to a point.  As much as anyone can really control such a being :)"
Senebty!

Ikemwy "The Double Shielded"
Sat Set her Bast,
Meryt Sekhmet-HetHert her Heru-Wer

"The Force is a river from which many can drink, and the training of the Jedi is not the only cup that can catch it."--Luke Skywalker

Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2009, 02:37:47 pm »
Quote from: Sedjem
Hotep :)
I realized I just wanted everyone to go away. Then clearly in my head I heard Aset's voice saying "Let them all be. Their reasons are their own--but they still came to see Me."  


Thank you for sharing that.  
Child of Sekhmet-HetHert, Beloved of Amun-Ra and Khonsu

¿Que es la vida? Un frenesí.
Qué es la vida? Una ilusión,
Una sombra, una ficción,
Que el mayor bien,  es pequeño;
Que toda la vida es sueño,
Y los sueños, sueños son

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2009, 02:50:06 pm »
While you are correct about that, I actually was not referring to Her Ren. Or Ra's Ren for that matter.

Sorry to not be clear about that :)
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Offline Asetwedjbai

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: ca
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2009, 03:16:07 pm »
It was really weird for me (and sometimes hard) to change from calling my Mother Aset rather than Isis as I had always known Her. For awhile I continued to call Her Isis. Eventually I got used to the idea of Aset, and now I have a hard time using the name Isis to describe Her (which I do for when talking to people who are unfamiliar with Kemetic names & terminology)!  

Personally, I think that if calling a Name by the Greek or Kemetic name is going to get in your way of having a relationship with Them, you should do what feels comfortable. Ultimately what you call a god or how you think of that god is between you and the god. Aset told me to call Her Aset, so I do.

senebty, Wedjbai
Wedjbai
sat Aset-Amentet
meryt Hethert-Sekhmet,Wesir, Yinepu-Wepwawet, Nut &
Nebthet-Seshat-Nit

Offline Tahotep

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2009, 03:36:28 pm »
Quote from: Wedjbai
It was really weird for me (and sometimes hard) to change from calling my Mother Aset rather than Isis as I had always known Her. For awhile I continued to call Her Isis. Eventually I got used to the idea of Aset, and now I have a hard time using the name Isis to describe Her (which I do for when talking to people who are unfamiliar with Kemetic names & terminology)!  

Personally, I think that if calling a Name by the Greek or Kemetic name is going to get in your way of having a relationship with Them, you should do what feels comfortable. Ultimately what you call a god or how you think of that god is between you and the god. Aset told me to call Her Aset, so I do.

senebty, Wedjbai


QFT!

Also, I find myself feeling weird lately saying Isis, Anubis, etc.  So apparently it happens to all of us :)
Tahotepirty
"Peace of (the) Two Eyes" or "Peaceful Two Eyes"
*****
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Bast, meryt Aset-Serquet her Amunet

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2009, 05:14:30 pm »
Quote from: Sedjem

---that most of the people there probably had no notion of the value of that religion or even any credence in the gods or that particular goddess;

 Then clearly in my head I heard Aset's voice saying "Let them all be. Their reasons are their own--but they still came to see Me."

"But, I have many Names, after all. They can call Me what they like. I will be Who I am."




i felt a little bit like this at the Thoth parade during Mardi Gras, but interestingly enough, i got the same kind of feeling after a little while!  thanks for posting this!!  
Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

Offline Senushemi

  • Forum Moderator (Beginners' Forums)
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: Isis & Aset
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2009, 11:56:55 pm »
Quote from: Sedjem
 "But, I have many Names, after all. They can call Me what they like. I will be Who I am."  


Awesome.  Leave it to Aset to be that perfect with an answer. :)
Sat Bast her Djehuty her Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS) meryt Sekhmet
Fedw Diviner for Djehuty and Bast
Self-Care Sekhmet Advocate
Proud waver of the "senu" flag.
senushemi@gmail.com

 


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