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Author Topic: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?  (Read 2816 times)

Offline Vincent

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: de
Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« on: October 05, 2016, 02:51:44 am »
[Feel free to skip my rambling, I get to the actual question in the second paragraph] Ok so when I first started becoming Kemetic I didn't really see ancestor veneration being a part of my practice at all. When I joined KO and was told it's a very important part of the faith I, after a lot of hesitation and second guessing, set up an Akhu shrine to try it out and see if it worked for me. My ancestor veneration hasn't really been that active, though not non-existent either, but I have felt a strong push to get into Heathenry. Heathenry is the faith my very old ancestors practiced (my great grandmother researched the family tree extensively) so it'd make sense for them to be the ones to be pushing me. (I'm also interested in Heathenry cause I want to connect to the nature where I live and since I live in Germany I feel like most of that fits in the Heathen sphere. That's neither here nor there though.)

So the question is, would it be ok to have an ancestor shrine that's mixed Kemetic and Heathen? I know mixing the actual religions and gods is a bad idea, and definitely not something I'm gonna do, but I don't have the space for 2 ancestor shrines(+ felt like it wouldn't make sense to have 2 anyway) and felt like this would be a good way to work with who my ancestors were while keeping it in the direction of Akhu veneration. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 03:19:45 am by Vincent »
Sa Wepwawet-Yinepu
mery Sekhmet-Mut her Ra

Offline Sekhepenaset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2016, 06:44:39 am »
Hotep

I practice multiple religions (including Heathenism) so I understand your space woes.  But I really wouldn't mix the religions together for a few reasons.  Still, I can't stop if you do. 

But, for your space issues, I'd suggest creating a "general" ancestor altar.  One that isn't tied to any religion and just dedicated to your ancestors and that way, if you want to do something for your ancestors in the Kemetic way (like a holiday), you can temporarily decorate it for the event and vice versa for Heathenism. 

The idea is that you'll have a space that isn't tied to either religions but could function in either if you wanted it to.  I know it's not a perfect solution but space issues are pretty hard to work with. 

And if you want to talk about Heathenism or ancestor worship/veneration/whatever, feel free to PM me.



Senebty -
Sekhep

Sa Aset-Serqet
Mery Wesir her Bast

Offline Shezatwepwawet

  • Moderator (Kemetic Orthodox Q&A)
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Country: us
Re: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2016, 09:20:30 am »
I've also done Heathenry in the past but don't use the term for myself now (though I do still have a relationship with Odin and many of His family). Remember that for the actual doing of ancestor veneration, we don't have a rite. I've come up with prayers that I say each week when I present offerings and have them include nods to my family ancestry (Swedish) and my primarily Kemetic spiritual inclination.

I have yet to hear of a polytheistic tradition which does not include ancestor veneration, and I know many people who practice more than one tradition. I've yet to hear of anyone keeping multiple ancestor shrines.
Senebty,
Zat (She who makes Sekhmet laugh)
Sau apprentice

Sat Wepwawet-Yinepu her Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS) meryt Seshat-Nit-Nebthet her Heru-wer

Offline Vincent

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: de
Re: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2016, 06:17:17 am »
Sorry for only responding to this now - I was on vacation and only rarely had internet.

I have yet to hear of a polytheistic tradition which does not include ancestor veneration, and I know many people who practice more than one tradition. I've yet to hear of anyone keeping multiple ancestor shrines.
True, I've never heard of something like that either which is one of the reasons I felt like having a "composite" ancestor shrine was an ok idea.

But, for your space issues, I'd suggest creating a "general" ancestor altar.  One that isn't tied to any religion and just dedicated to your ancestors and that way, if you want to do something for your ancestors in the Kemetic way (like a holiday), you can temporarily decorate it for the event and vice versa for Heathenism. 

The idea is that you'll have a space that isn't tied to either religions but could function in either if you wanted it to.

This seems like a really good idea actually, I think I'll actually go ahead and do it this way. (Btw I don't intend to mix the religions much at all, sorry if it came off that way, a little mixing is unavoidable simply cause I'm kemetic while my ancestors weren't)
Sa Wepwawet-Yinepu
mery Sekhmet-Mut her Ra

Offline Lira

  • Remetj
  • Country: za
Re: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2016, 08:08:40 am »
Em Hotep

In my own understanding the Akhu shrine is about the Akhu and who and what they might represent. I believe that is the one place where it is okay to "mix faiths". For instance if one of my Akhu is Christian and want Christian symbols and another might want Kemet symbols and so on. This is just my own opinion though. My Akhu shrine only has Imhotep from the Kemet traditions. The rest are all symbols that signify what was important to each of my different ancestors ranging from plants, art work, crucifixes and gambling card decks lol. I also have a symbol for Mr. Nelson Mandela whom I feel is the one great ancestor of South Africa. Lol sorry that got a bit long, but that's my two cents :)

Senebty

Offline Heruakhetymose

  • Rev Jeff - Ordained Clergy, Baku Director
  • Country: us
Re: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 07:24:21 pm »
Em hotep!

Lira gave a very good response above. An akhu shrine is there to not only remind you of your ancestors but also to help you connect and communicate with them. I personally believe it's very appropriate for an akhu shrine to be a reflection of the ancestors' beliefs and practices, even if they aren't the same as our own. For example, I have a crucifix, rosary, and few other Catholic items in my akhu shrine since all of my immediate ancestors are Catholic.

I no longer practice Catholicism, but if I did, I wouldn't see any problem with connecting with them from that point of view at the same shrine.

I believe this extends to your own practices as well. Does it make sense to you to have two separate akhu shrines for two different ways of connecting to and speaking with them? If so, separate them. If not, keep them the same. As you mentioned above, shrines and our interactions with the akhu aren't the same as those with our Gods.

At the end of the day, what's important (from the Kemetic Orthodox viewpoint) is that you are finding some way to give offerings to and acknowledge your akhu. :)

Senebty,
Mose
𓅃𓈌𓏏𓏭𓄟
Rev. Heruakhetymose (Born of Heruakhety)
Son of Heruakhety, Beloved of Ra, Set, and Yinepu-Wepwawet
Contact Info
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Offline Saymari

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2016, 12:54:37 am »
I am not as well versed as most people here, however, I have found that the mingling of traditions should always be handled with care and only upon the approval of all parties involved (including spirits, gods and what have you).
I think I do what everyone else does; have one general purpose shrine for the ancestors and then do work for them where ever I feel they want to be venerated. I personally do mostly do prayers for the ancestors in a Judeo-Christian style because it is my belief that the only ancestors who are stuffy enough to care what style I pray in general are the ones who come from those traditions.
Not that of course my older ancestors do not ask for veneration from a more familiar style but I believe this is more to help me to connect to them and their gods. Also because of simple comfort of "the gods my people pray by". Of course at the moment I have several shrines set up so honoring different tradition comes easier.
My final note here is this; the Netjeru themselves have told me to go over here and try this tradition or go over there and learn about these gods, so in my personal experience as long as they are honored they don't care too too much what else you do as long as you do it in the pursuit of your own spiritual betterment. As such, my logic goes, as long as you do ancestor veneration They should be fine with it. Of course, this is based on my own personal path and what the Netjeru want from me is not always what they want from others; so remember, it does not hurt to confirm and ask :P.
On an eternal search for the truth with occasional stops for snacks and site seeing.

Hey guys, I am trying to get some practice with some oracle work. Anyone who wants a reading please feel free to message me ^_^

Offline Sekhepenaset

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: Mixing Ancestor Veneration?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2016, 10:46:16 am »
People are misunderstanding my original idea.  I said it wouldn't be a good idea to mix religions together and I believe that because each religion is a complete system.  There's no reason to mix them together.  Though I don't believe that was the OP's intention. 

And while KO doesn't have a specific "manner" of akhu veneration, there is still imagery, mythology, and other stuff that is specifically Kemetic and identifies with ancient Kemetic culture/worldview and that varies from other cultures and religions. 

That was my point.  Each religion is a complete system.  There is no need to mix them together.  More so when there wasn't a merging or cultural exchange to reflect in their spiritual systems. 

And as such, I see nothing wrong with putting signs or symbols of ancestors from varying religions on an ancestor shrine.  Though I think Christian ancestors would largely not appreciate being honored since it would probably violate their personal beliefs unless their variant allowed or condoned it.  But use your own discretion with that and ask if they're okay with it
Senebty -
Sekhep

Sa Aset-Serqet
Mery Wesir her Bast

 


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