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Author Topic: A Word on RPD  (Read 142615 times)

Offline Tasedjebbast

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2009, 08:46:57 pm »
I think I remember Her saying at the RPD weekend though that eventually when/if the faith gets large enough, She might, by necessity, have to delegate RPD divinations to other senior priests.  I don't know how that would work heka-wise though.  And it could be that I misremembered what exactly She said.
Daughter of Bast-Mut & Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Offline Tahai

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2009, 08:56:55 pm »
Em hotep,

Ritual of Parent Divination is a Kemetic Orthodox ritual.  It was created for the people of the Kemetic Orthox Nation by the Nisut of the Kemetic Orthodox Nation at the insistance of, and with the guidance of, Netjer, in the aspect of Sekhmet, if I remember correctly.

It may or may not be true that other persons can divine the intent of the Gods in regards to another's soul, I neither know not care if this is so.  

ONLY the Nisut of the Kemetic Orthodox Nation can perform the Ritual of Parent Divination of the Kemetic Orthodox faith.  So, if you want to be a member of the Kemetic Orthodox faith, and you choose to have your Ritual of Parent Divination, you MUST have it done by the Nisut, who, at this time, is Reverand Siuda.

It all comes down to trust.  You trust Hemet.  You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods.  You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods.  You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.  If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.

RPD is not a requirement.
TahaiBast
Daughter of Bast.  Beloved of Sobek-Ra, Djehuty, and Sekhmet-Hethert.

Self-care Sekhmet and Sobek-Ra Keeper

Feed the Ka Association (FKA)

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2009, 10:29:54 pm »
Quote from: kathleen
Quote

... I happen to think other people could potentially do the same thing through similar (or different) divination means, but I'm not here to undermine the faith or Rev. Siuda,



this leads me to ask:  is it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it?  She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?


From a perspective from within the KO faith? The answer is yes (unless that has changed in the last 8 years since I've been here!)
 


Quote from: Tahai

 If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.
 


To be honest, I respectfully disagree. I don't think you have to fully and completely trust... that would be like telling a Christian who has doubts that they are not a Christian.

I had a lot of doubts... a lot. I started off as a Kemetic Wiccan, and when I came to KO I had doubts: as a beginner, as a Remetj, as a Shemsu, and as a Shemsu-Ankh. I'm the doubting type, and I don't trust easily, not ever. I still don't, and I never will, it's just part of who I am.

I still went through with my RPD back then, and I do not regret it one bit. It solidified my faith back then for a time, actually... a lot of my doubts became more clear instead on many subjects once my Father was revealed to me, though other things remained cloudy that, over time, pushed me to grow in different directions. But, that doesn't mean my divination back then was worthless or shouldn't have been done. It was what it was back then, it was part of my path, part of my growth, and is an important part of who I am.

Everyone's life path is different. Some people trust 100%, and other people trust 2% and need to take a 98% leap of faith. Genuine well-intentioned leaps of faith are not wrong, I'd hate for anyone to think that they are.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Nesiwepwawet »

Offline Maainakhtsen

  • Guest
  • Country: 00
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2009, 03:05:12 am »
Quote from: Tahai
You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods. You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods. You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.


Um, excuse me, but **** no. No human is capable of this without some bias or error. Fortunately our Gods, thank Them, speak for Themselves, even while we in turn, receive Their messages with bias and error.

I trust Hemet to do the best she can. Anyone who hopes for more, from anyone, is setting themselves up for a world of hurt, imo.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Maainakhtsen »
Senebty,
Ma'ai

"A great pleasure in life is doing what others say you can't." -A Fortune Cookie

Offline Inibmutes

  • Guest
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2009, 12:29:23 pm »
Perhaps the best thing I can say about Parent Divination for us, is that it doesn't tell us who we worship - it tells us about *ourselves*, not Netjer.  So, in many ways, it's a window into what we are, that we don't often get.  It's not, however, an absolute commentary on what relationships we may (or may not) have with the Gods.  It can be the opening of a door that leads into conversation on a new journey, it can be an affirmation of what was suspected, and it always quite transformative even if you don't see or behold the results for some time.  

What Parent Divination does for us, is begin a line of critical thinking and working in our spiritual lives.  Even if you agree one-hundred percent and aren't surprised, the act of beginning that line of inquiry is transformative - regardless of whether you accept it or not, stay here or not, do something else or not.  You begin to approach and look at yourself for who you really are.  No small feat to begin, to say the least.

As with most tools, the end result of your work depends on what you make with what you've been given.  Ultimately, the choice is yours where it takes you or not, and what it does for you, or not.
- Ini
Waffle Specialist Extraordinaire
Child of Aset, beloved of Heka.
e-mail: inibmutes@gmail.com
Divinations, oracular work, and hekau available upon request.

Have no second thoughts.

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2009, 05:51:36 pm »
 
Quote
it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it? She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?
 


Yes. Rev. Siuda created the concept of Parents and Beloveds as something that is divined for, under the guidance of Sekhmet. She created the Rite of Parent Divination as the medium to do this, and she is the only person who does it.

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2009, 08:56:27 pm »
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
Absolutely, and Hemet has said as such many times. Just because a God isn't in your RPD doesn't mean your relationship with them isn't as valid!

I was told (in so many words) that my relationship with Set was invalid.  Tamara, your Nisut, told me that because she didn't see Setian traits within me, she very well couldn't believe I was a child of Set.  Most of my spiritual doings had dealt with Set.  This was my own conscious doing, as well as something inside of my heart was awoken.  Set spoke with me, He named me, and I felt Him around me most of the time.  I was to let all of this go, despite everything.  It meant nothing.

As well, during my time observing both as an insider and outsider to the membership of this group, it's repeatedly happened that cliques form dedicated to the different Netjeru.  There's a habit that because one 'is a child' of a god or goddess, that one would be in some way more qualified than anyone else to speak about his or her parent.  Once again, it was painfully enforced to me that even speaking about Set was unwelcome - even in private matters between myself and other members.

My heart was stomped on and thrown back at me.

Quote from: Nesiwepwawet
I had a lot of doubts... a lot. I started off as a Kemetic Wiccan, and when I came to KO I had doubts: as a beginner, as a Remetj, as a Shemsu, and as a Shemsu-Ankh. I'm the doubting type, and I don't trust easily, not ever. I still don't, and I never will, it's just part of who I am.

...and...

Quote from: Maainakhtsen
I trust Hemet to do the best she can. Anyone who hopes for more, from anyone, is setting themselves up for a world of hurt, imo.

I truly need to develop my breaks when it comes to the trust factor; indeed, I believe I would not be in this mess I find myself in, spiritually, if I had knowledge of and used them.  I do and do not trust, and seem to lean, to the point of falling over, more so to the side of 'trust.'  As well, I could have and should have had a good dose of self esteem to know what was best for me.  At the very least, I should have given it all more time.  I realize this now.

Quote from: Sekhmetbitu
After it was all done, I showed non-Kemetic pagan friends Hemet's article about what it was I just did, and they warmed up to it a lot more than before when I was considering it; the friends who study other indigenous (albeit North American) religions liked the fact that RPD puts the emphasis on the gods and community, and not on, as one friend put it, the "focus(ing) on it as a loss of freedom rather than simply an acknowledgment that we as mortals don't always know what's best and have it all figured out". From the perspective of a lot of North American tribes, contrary to modern New Age thought, one does not pick one's own totems, for example, one inherits the totems of tribe and family - the emphasis is on the community, not the individual's wishes or desires. One could say RPD is Hemet deciding for us who we are children of (I did not get this impression) but if one looks at a lot of traditions from the Near East/Mediterranean, one sees a lot of oracular/divinatory traditions (Delphi being the most famous example), where people for millennia put their faith in the hands of a mortal who was somehow showing the wishes of the divine.

I cannot argue this point.  In all archaic cultures, there were elders, at least one, who were most trusted with all the divine and mundane doings of the group - though not always the same person.  I understand.  I can't think of anything to say to debate this paragraph.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Seta »
"Give sorrow a Sailor smile."
~ "Makenai" by Hanazawa Kae; Sailor Moon Stars, Season 5, episode 200

"Beyond this road, running on far and long, must surely be something we can believe in."
~ "Pure Heart" by Rikki; Final Fantasy VII, "Aerith's Theme"

Offline Khesretitui

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2009, 09:41:14 pm »
Frankly, I'm not even sure it's helpful to respond to this, but I dislike seeing my faith misrepresented.

I'm only going to say what follows, and then no more.

You've established your position, and it's clear that nobody will change your mind. This is more for the elucidation of others:

1. You are still allowed to be here. No one banned you. No one made you change your Username, your Signature, or your Avatar. No one censors or edits you here. You are treated as a guest.

2. You can choose to dissociate yourself from this group/site at any time. Nothing holds you here except for whatever you feel that keeps you coming to these boards.

3. Just because your relationship with Set may not work out in KO terms exactly as you see it outside of the faith does not invalidate it for you. You can have whatever relationship with Set you please, on whatever level you please. On the opposite hand, you cannot force something like an entire faith to change because you disagree with it. It's not negotiable. If your experience and the tenets of a faith don't match, you have to make a choice. You made a choice, and I have not seen one person who doesn't honor that choice here.

4. People will associate with whom they please. If they want to clique up, as you say, that is their right. At my workplace, people clique up by field. Biologists with biologists. Historians with historians. English scholars with English scholars. Cliques happen everywhere. They are not a personal plot against anyone. They are a byproduct of human interaction.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Khesretitui »
Khesretitui
"My Fathers Dispel Evil"

Sat Set her Ra-Heruakhety
Meryt Heru-wer her Yinepu-Wepwawet

I provide writing, editing, and tutoring services in exchange for donations to the House. PM me for details.

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2009, 10:23:27 pm »
Quote from: Khesretitui
...I dislike seeing my faith misrepresented.

I only ask that what I typed in response to this thread be seen as my own experience; in this, I misrepresent nothing.
"Give sorrow a Sailor smile."
~ "Makenai" by Hanazawa Kae; Sailor Moon Stars, Season 5, episode 200

"Beyond this road, running on far and long, must surely be something we can believe in."
~ "Pure Heart" by Rikki; Final Fantasy VII, "Aerith's Theme"

Offline Tasedjebbast

  • Divined Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2009, 10:42:22 pm »
According to the rites of Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not a child of Set.  Within this context, which you are free to reject (and have), this is the case.  But I do find it difficult to believe that based on this that you were told that your relationship with Him was invalid.  No, within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not His daughter.  Within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you were named by another deity.  That is what it is.  And yes, when you took shemsu vows (which were never required), you were asked to honor the gods of your RPD first (but not only).  Like I can have a relationship with and honor Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox, but I cannot claim to be a daughter of Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox. If this didn't resonate, you were at no time obligated to accept these things.  You could not reject these things and be shemsu, but not everyone is called to be shemsu.  And this is totally fine.  It's also totally fine that you realized it didn't work for you and left the faith.  For you, it sounds like that was a good thing and the right decision.  So I just really don't get what all of this is about.  RPD and the rites and tenets of Kemetic Orthodoxy don't resonate with you.  You are not Kemetic Orthodox.  So it's all good, right?  
Daughter of Bast-Mut & Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Offline Tai'awepwawet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: gb
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2009, 01:33:18 pm »
Quote from: Seta
Quote from: Taiawepwawet
Absolutely, and Hemet has said as such many times. Just because a God isn't in your RPD doesn't mean your relationship with them isn't as valid!

I was told (in so many words) that my relationship with Set was invalid.  Tamara, your Nisut, told me that because she didn't see Setian traits within me, she very well couldn't believe I was a child of Set.  Most of my spiritual doings had dealt with Set.  This was my own conscious doing, as well as something inside of my heart was awoken.  Set spoke with me, He named me, and I felt Him around me most of the time.  I was to let all of this go, despite everything.  It meant nothing.


If you were told to let it go and that it meant nothing, then I would stand 100% alongside you in calling that behaviour reprehensible. I do understand that KO's stances on things and their application of them have changed over time. All I can say is that right now, *that would not be the case*. You would be told that to become Shemsu you would have to admit Set did not create your ba (this is not to say he is not a 'father', see my mention of Bast wherever it was). That's only if you wanted to become Shemsu, though.

I'm with others when I express, these rules are only for KO people. If you're not KO, they don't apply to you. I don't really see what the problem is.


Quote
As well, during my time observing both as an insider and outsider to the membership of this group, it's repeatedly happened that cliques form dedicated to the different Netjeru.  There's a habit that because one 'is a child' of a god or goddess, that one would be in some way more qualified than anyone else to speak about his or her parent.  Once again, it was painfully enforced to me that even speaking about Set was unwelcome - even in private matters between myself and other members.


It can get cliqueish. I have heard that your experience of Set is often very different from some of his KO children, posting stuff like that will certainly get a lot of replies from the Set kids. And the fact that they get so much reinforcement (knowing their experiences are shared by other Set kids) can make people quite Certain when speaking to you one on one.

People do group up (I love me my jackal sibs!) but I've yet to see anyone exclude anybody. I'm really sorry you have felt this way :( And I'm really sorry if any members have been unduly harsh to you at any point. The Gods come across differently to all of us.
Meset Wepwawet
Meryt Serqet, Bast, Ra-Heruakhty, her Hethert-Amenti
Child of (Hekatawy Alexandros)|
Fedw and Tarot Diviner • Sau Apprentice • Self-care Hethert-Amenti Advocate
𓇼𓃧𓆫𓃠𓅊𓁥𓇼

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2009, 02:03:48 pm »
This whole latter part of the thread seems about as useful as debating whether or not Christ died for our sins. If you aren't a Christian, then I don't see why it matters so much... There is many a Christian Pastor / Priest out there who would readily tell any of us that we are going to Hell. Do we much care? No... because that person's opinion has no weight to someone outside of the Christian faith.

So I guess I don't know why this debate is even occurring... very confusing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Nesiwepwawet »

Offline Huyitu

  • Shemsu
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2009, 02:22:53 pm »
Quote from: Tahai

It all comes down to trust.  You trust Hemet.  You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods.  You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods.  You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.  If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.


Personally I disagree, one of the reasons why I went to have my RPD done in person was to evaluate Hemet, to see if she could be trusted, that the rituals were sound, and to see in what ways she was biased. Upon meeting and talking with her I was convinced she was intelligent and humble enough to lead and extremely knowledgeable. By watching her do the divination with a skeptical eye I could run the figures in my head and see that it wasn’t a false ritual. I didn’t trust those things but did the RPD any way and came out a believer, it was just what I needed. It was a very liberating experience for me.

Quote from: Inibmutes
Perhaps the best thing I can say about Parent Divination for us, is that it doesn't tell us who we worship - it tells us about *ourselves*, not Netjer.  So, in many ways, it's a window into what we are, that we don't often get.  It's not, however, an absolute commentary on what relationships we may (or may not) have with the Gods.  It can be the opening of a door that leads into conversation on a new journey, it can be an affirmation of what was suspected, and it always quite transformative even if you don't see or behold the results for some time.  

What Parent Divination does for us, is begin a line of critical thinking and working in our spiritual lives.  Even if you agree one-hundred percent and aren't surprised, the act of beginning that line of inquiry is transformative - regardless of whether you accept it or not, stay here or not, do something else or not.  You begin to approach and look at yourself for who you really are.  No small feat to begin, to say the least.

As with most tools, the end result of your work depends on what you make with what you've been given.  Ultimately, the choice is yours where it takes you or not, and what it does for you, or not.


I just wanted to quote you Inibmutes, because this is exactingly how I feel about RPD but much more eloquently than I ever could. Its perfect  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Huyitu »
Son of Wesir and Ra, Beloved of Wepwawet-Yinepu

Offline Tai'awepwawet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: gb
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2009, 03:29:09 pm »
Quote from: Tahai
It all comes down to trust.  You trust Hemet.  You trust that in ritual scenarios, she speaks the intent of the Gods.  You trust that Hemet is able to understand the information given to her by the Gods.  You trust that she is delivering that information with no bias.  If you don't trust these things, don't have RPD.


I too disagree with this btw. Trusting Hemet or the divination are not prerequisites for having the RPD done. Like others I did not trust Hemet's divinations before she performed mine. I even did the oft frowned upon "If X isn't in it then I walk away" (with good reason, it seems. <3 Bast). The important thing is to go into it with an open mind.
Meset Wepwawet
Meryt Serqet, Bast, Ra-Heruakhty, her Hethert-Amenti
Child of (Hekatawy Alexandros)|
Fedw and Tarot Diviner • Sau Apprentice • Self-care Hethert-Amenti Advocate
𓇼𓃧𓆫𓃠𓅊𓁥𓇼

Offline Tahai

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2009, 04:55:34 pm »
Em hotep, all.

I can't comprehend going through any life-changing ritual without trusting the person conducting that ritual.  

I had reservations prior to RPD, but had done a great deal of soul searching before asking Hemet (AUS) to perform it for me.  Of course I had doubts, I'm human and skeptical.  As a result, I backed out of my first appointment.  I did not request RPD again until I was as sure as I could possibly be that I trusted Tamara Siuda as Nisut, bearer of the kingly ka, Son of Netjer. Huy, I can understand your need to see the ritual performed and meet Reverend Siuda in person before making a final decision.  For you, that was an intentional part of developing trust.

I cannot conceive of a person undertaking any serious religious ritual without at least a majority of trust in the person they were asking to conduct it.  After all, if you don't trust the person performing the ritual, how on earth can you trust the results of the ritual?  

Even if a person chose to undergo RPD with a 'wait and see' philosophy, after RPD they would have to make a choice.  Either they trust the ritual was done correctly and was, indeed, a conduit for divine will or they don't, and they re-evaluate.  

Once again, I don't understand why any person would undergo a major ritual without trust.  I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that topic.  

Senebty,

Tahai
TahaiBast
Daughter of Bast.  Beloved of Sobek-Ra, Djehuty, and Sekhmet-Hethert.

Self-care Sekhmet and Sobek-Ra Keeper

Feed the Ka Association (FKA)

 


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