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Author Topic: A Word on RPD  (Read 150330 times)

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2009, 05:04:14 pm »
Quote from: Taji
According to the rites of Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not a child of Set.  Within this context, which you are free to reject (and have), this is the case.  But I do find it difficult to believe that based on this that you were told that your relationship with Him was invalid.  No, within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you are not His daughter.  Within Kemetic Orthodoxy, you were named by another deity.  That is what it is.  And yes, when you took shemsu vows (which were never required), you were asked to honor the gods of your RPD first (but not only).  Like I can have a relationship with and honor Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox, but I cannot claim to be a daughter of Djehuty and be Kemetic Orthodox. If this didn't resonate, you were at no time obligated to accept these things.  You could not reject these things and be shemsu, but not everyone is called to be shemsu.  And this is totally fine.  It's also totally fine that you realized it didn't work for you and left the faith.  For you, it sounds like that was a good thing and the right decision.  So I just really don't get what all of this is about.  RPD and the rites and tenets of Kemetic Orthodoxy don't resonate with you.  You are not Kemetic Orthodox.  So it's all good, right?  

You are correct, I am not Kemetic Orthodox any longer.  I realize that I spoke up regarding a hot subject for myself, and possibly others.

It's a valid question to ask, 'why is she/are you here?'  I must admit that question has many answers.  One of which is in truth that I don't want to see anyone else hurt.

In my opinion, it's not all good - but I have no place here to say what is and what is not beyond myself.  I stepped over that line; please allow me to restep backwards and chill.

Quote from: Taiawepwawet
I have heard that your experience of Set is often very different from some of his KO children, posting stuff like that will certainly get a lot of replies from the Set kids. And the fact that they get so much reinforcement (knowing their experiences are shared by other Set kids) can make people quite Certain when speaking to you one on one.

I appreciate your kindness Taia; but, you bring up a good point:  I don't recall talking with you, so how is it that you have come to hear about my experiences?  Unless I have misconstrued your meaning?

This is another hot button topic with me, all the talk.

In truth, my ideas and opinions do not matter here.  As I said above, I should just chill out right now.  It's true I have no control over anything beyond myself.  I need to keep reminding myself of this fact.

I just feel that the other side of this situation needs recognition; at least, as far as to say that the whole issue is one that needs a lot of personal reflection.  Going through the RPD is definitely a leap of trust, if not faith, and that is powerful, indeed.  (I learned the hard way.)

As for the differences in experiences with Set, some messages stated by others here are similar, though the method of transaction has been different.  Set is much harsher here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Seta »
"Give sorrow a Sailor smile."
~ "Makenai" by Hanazawa Kae; Sailor Moon Stars, Season 5, episode 200

"Beyond this road, running on far and long, must surely be something we can believe in."
~ "Pure Heart" by Rikki; Final Fantasy VII, "Aerith's Theme"

Offline Seshagemseger

  • Divined Remetj
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2009, 06:19:12 pm »
Em hotep!

I find it interesting that there are two very different perspectives on the question of trust.  Neither side is wrong, now that I think about it, even though they are coming at it from opposite sides.

As for me, I had spent a couple of years or more as an undivined remetj, yet had the opportunity to get to know the Nisut (AUS) in person.  At the time of my RPD, I trusted Her more than I trusted my own judgement -- and about many matters that is still the case.

(This despite the fact that my first "investigation" of the House was due to concern that a friend was getting involved with something scary... ;))
Child of Seshat
Beloved of Hethert, Serqet, and Shu
seshat.org / Facebook / LiveJournal

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2009, 06:30:01 pm »
Hotep Kai Imakhu Sesha,

I think there has to be an element of trust, in any religion with regard to rituals and rites of passage. It is not necessarily a question of trusting a person involved, although that kind of trust *can* be involved...

....a young man who is Jewish, undertaking Bar Mitzvah, trusts that this rite of passage means he is accepted now as a man;

...a young Catholic boy or girl, undertaking Confirmation, trusts that by this rite of passage they are seen as "mature" enough to understand the expectations of their lives as Catholics...

...and of course, in both of those cases, one trusts the rabbis, and the tradition of the Bar Mitzvah, one trusts the Pope, the Cardinals and bishops, the particular bishop officiating at the rite...otherwise, why would one do it?  

I might add that in my examples, since those undertaking the rites are generally minors under law, they also trust that their parents and families are guiding them into a good experience and situation. Later on they may make their own decisions, and that is all good.

Trust and faith can be the same, or at least similar, or at least run parallel paths. One should never ever join a religion or faith or take on a spiritual practice if one has not the slightest smidgen of trust, or faith, or both, that that religion, faith or practice will hold value, whether it be Buddhism, Islam, Shintoism, Asatru, Hellenism, Kemetic Orthodoxy, or name another.

From the moment one undertakes here the beginners course, one is encouraged to take one's time, make no decision lightly or quickly. The rest is up to one to do. Some take hours, some take years. It seems all good.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Sedjemes »
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2009, 07:05:01 pm »
Em hotep Tahai and everyone! *henu*

*post disclaimer- post being written from theological point of view not as a Shemsu*

Quote
I can't comprehend going through any life-changing ritual without trusting the person conducting that ritual.


In the overall scheme of things trust isn't necessary to make any form of ritual, work.  I know that sounds very flippant but with the 1000's of babies each year, world wide, put through varying forms of rite of passage be it baptism, circumcision etc....for them trust doesn't come into it. Also trust doesn't come into for their parents either.  In way too many cases these rites are done out of tradition or "because it was done to me I'm doing it to my child as well" and not of devotion. Conscience choice is something of a rarity in a lot of religious practice.  

I know that sounds a bit off but after 3 years of undergrad theology its more often a case that people don't think, don't choose for themselves and use blind trust and end up deceiving themselves or put themselves in spiritual pickles because they are willing to be spoon fed gruel instead of stepping out of the box and doing the thinking and chewing for themselves.  

Quote
I cannot conceive of a person undertaking any serious religious ritual without at least a majority of trust in the person they were asking to conduct it. After all, if you don't trust the person performing the ritual, how on earth can you trust the results of the ritual?


Because the vessel doesn't count, its the power of the divine that does count.  Rites are not deemed invalid if a vessel is limited.  There has been enough coverage of child abusing priests around the world to show that vessel can be scum but despite that scum it does not invalidate the rituals they performed.

Its the power of the divine Beings in question that validates the ritual.  If trust comes in anywhere its at this point and its between you and the divine Being you believe in.  

*steps off theology soapbox*

In my own experience, I went to RPD having no foggy idea Who I belonged too and I came away stunned from the experience with no connection to Mum or my then Beloved Set.  As a matter of fact I didn't want Set as Beloved and was peeved that Djehuty wasn't there at that point.  I had some growing to do before I could cope with Him and Sekhmet came a while after that.

It wasn't until one of priests stepped in and helped me get a relationship with Mum did it start to feel real and its been a process ever since.  Its only in the last 12 months that I can say that yes I am sure of my RPD line up and my place in the faith.

For me the vessel aka Hemet didn't really have all that much to do with the process.  The process itself is internal.  
The core aim of any form of ritual is to make the person look inwards and bring about a change in the person.  The vessels can be cracked totally up what counts is what the divine does, not what the vessels do.

Senebty
Aqheret  

 
Aqheretbastmut
"Entering in face to face with Bast-Mut"
Sat Bast-Mut, Meryt Set her Djehuty her Sekhmet-Hethert her Ra

"The weak must have nothing to run from and the strong must always have something to strive for"
St Benedict of Nursia


Offline Tasedjebbast

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2009, 07:57:20 pm »
Quote from: Seta

I just feel that the other side of this situation needs recognition; at least, as far as to say that the whole issue is one that needs a lot of personal reflection.  Going through the RPD is definitely a leap of trust, if not faith, and that is powerful, indeed.  (I learned the hard way.)


I don't think anyone here is arguing the point that RPD is a huge step that requires a lot of serious personal reflection before it is undertaken.  We can debate the meaning of trust and what it means and whether it's necessary or not, but still I think everyone would agree on the point, however they define these things, that RPD is a big step.  There are people who are guests here for years before they take the beginners class.  Who are then remetj for years before being divined.  And then who are divined remetj for years before becoming shemsu.  This amount of deliberation is both respected and encouraged, though not required.  

So I guess I still don't understand where you're coming from.  Granted I was not here when you were a shemsu, so I cannot speak to how things were then.  In my own experience though, the priesthood of KO and the Nisut Herself were always the first to urge patience and being sure that one is ready before taking the step of RPD.  They rightly say that this is a life-changing ritual, one that there is no going back from (just in terms of that once you have the knowledge, you can't erase knowing it even if shemsuhood is not chosen.)

I'm really sorry that you weren't ready for RPD and feel that the process hurt you.  But it was something that you made the choice to do yourself.  So unless I am missing something, I don't understand the anger directed toward the HoN and the Nisut.
Tasedjeb,
Daughter of Bast-Mut & Hekatawy Alexandros (AUS)
Beloved of Yinepu, Sekhmet, Set, Heru-wer, and Aset

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2009, 08:55:08 pm »
Quote from: Taji
I'm really sorry that you weren't ready for RPD and feel that the process hurt you.  But it was something that you made the choice to do yourself.  So unless I am missing something, I don't understand the anger directed toward the HoN and the Nisut.

Taji, I welcome your kind words, but you have nothing to be sorry for. :) As far as I know, you had nothing to do with the issues I speak/write/type of.

I am aware of some reasons why I still come to the boards; at least two reasons are not very flattering.  There is also the reason that I realize that Tamara knows some stuff, and she does deserve a heck of a lot of credit because she's got the best thing going when it comes to an organized group dedicated to the Ancient Egyptian gods.  In that, I do come to learn.  Undoubtably, there are some reasons that I myself have yet to really come to terms with.

The anger towards the House held by me is in how I was treated by some within the higher levels of membership, as well as some goings-on that I saw both as a member and outside of membership.  I am saying this to explain; and, I recall my words of needing to step back and chill out.  No one person or group is perfect, but I do strongly feel that what I experienced was a conscious effort on the part of the participants.  It's not just one or two or three things; and, if things have truly changed to the point where those issues no longer go on, that's for the best.  I am honest when I say I do not care to see anyone hurt as I was.

To make a long story short, the goddess (Sekhmet-HetHert) I was claimed to be created by had never made much of an impact in my life, though the god (Set) I claimed (and who seemed to make clear He claimed me) made tremendous marks - for good and for ill, in my opinion.  There are some issues that I feel are related to Him that I still do not understand; yet, still, I felt very attached to Set.  

I can misconstrue things as much as the next person, but to have all of that - the confusion, the love, the experiences - and then be told, that he wants nothing to do with me, he needs nothing from me, and that everything I've gone through was basically a lie...  That was wrong.  No one has the right to tell anyone else that their personal experiences are invalid, as 'different' or 'unusual' to the 'norm' they may be.  I could understand if a person was in a life or death situation, but that's different, again in my opinion.

So that's me, to answer at least one question.

Plus the talk.  There was (and from what I have heard, is) a lot of talk behind peoples' back.  No one really likes it when this happens to them, but I believe in speaking up about it.  I'm not so brave (or brazen) all the time.  For this matter, I'm quite open and I do my best to be completely honest about my side of the situations (dealing with my time in the House of Netjer) regarding my own words, conduct, beliefs.

True, it's human nature to be 'clique-ish', but it's also human ability to rise above such.  I wish more people would play detective instead of believing that which comes easiest.  When I come here, now - many years after - I try to be courteous and state only that I feel the RPD is a very serious situation, grave almost.  Do not tred lightly.  While there may be deep feelings there, I really do try to keep my interjections to the point.  I wish that I had this in my own head and heart at the time, instead of trying to be acceptable to others (my pressures went beyond some of the House members).

Granted, I'll admit with some shame and guilt that I probably have stretched the tolerance of 'guest' status to some.  Again, hence, reason why I am doing what I can to watch my step.  I appreciate everyone who reads my words, at least trying to understand.  I guess a long story short didn't really happen.
"Give sorrow a Sailor smile."
~ "Makenai" by Hanazawa Kae; Sailor Moon Stars, Season 5, episode 200

"Beyond this road, running on far and long, must surely be something we can believe in."
~ "Pure Heart" by Rikki; Final Fantasy VII, "Aerith's Theme"

Offline Tai'awepwawet

  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: gb
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2009, 08:07:06 am »
Quote from: Tahai
I can't comprehend going through any life-changing ritual without trusting the person conducting that ritual.  


I agree strongly with Aqheret, in that it's about the ritual, not the person performing it. I don't have to trust Hemet to trust the Gods working through her and what they're showing her.

That said, I did not entirely trust the process either. Why? Because I hadn't gone through it. I have never and will never be one for 'blind faith'. without having gone through it I only had other people's word for its effectiveness, and that was nice but it meant nothing to me. It was only me, my experiences, my soul, and my results, that could show to me whether or not the rite had the ability to be effective.

Again, trust is not required for the RPD. Only an open mind. Which I had.


Quote from: Seta
I appreciate your kindness Taia; but, you bring up a good point:  I don't recall talking with you, so how is it that you have come to hear about my experiences?  Unless I have misconstrued your meaning?

This is another hot button topic with me, all the talk.


I have a rly rly bad memory, so forgive upcoming vagueness. I think it came up at retreat. "It" being this thread, not you. And there was no gossip that I recall, just a very brief "Why is that thread so boom?" and at some point someone mentioning "Their experiences of Set are really different to a lot of people here so they've had some bad times when they were Shemsu". A bad Saq experience was mentioned.

It was solely about this thread, and a passing explanation of why it was going the way it had. If it had turned to snarking or [censored] or gossip I would probably have smacked someone because it's not really fair =/

I am totally not dismissing your complaints about the Talk btw. Basically my sole bad experience at retreat was due to Talk. I have pretty much dismissed it as being because most everyone else there was American and they have different cultural rules regarding what is and isn't ok to talk about with people who weren't originally present, but at the time it was *extremely* hurtful and had me choking back tears.

So, yeah. It does happen and I really do sympathise. I'm really sorry you were the victim of it, and I hope we didn't make you feel bad with our discussion of this thread at retreat =/


Quote
To make a long story short, the goddess (Sekhmet-HetHert) I was claimed to be created by had never made much of an impact in my life, though the god (Set) I claimed (and who seemed to make clear He claimed me) made tremendous marks - for good and for ill, in my opinion. There are some issues that I feel are related to Him that I still do not understand; yet, still, I felt very attached to Set.


I will say to this, I had no experience with Wepwawet before my RPD. He left some breadcrumbs as he tends to do in the weeks before, but many Gods don't do that. The Goddess who my heart belonged to, who had been my mother since I was a child, was revealed to be a Beloved. But remember, she was Bast.

Notice a trend of people disappointed Gods didn't show up who turn out not to have been there because they needed to accustom to their initial line up first. If your line up did not include Set it is likely a later divination would have added him. But that the initial one was saying "If you have Set now, you won't get to know these Gods, His power and your love for Him will overwhelm their presence." It seems to happen a lot in divinations.

Also, notice the trend of people who feel the Gods that made them *don't* have much of an impact in their lives. Like they made them and then sit back, and it is the Beloveds who mould their ka as they live.

(I am not trying to convert you to the RPD, not remotely, merely trying to show you that... other people have experienced your frustrations. That you are not alone in them.)


Quote
I can misconstrue things as much as the next person, but to have all of that - the confusion, the love, the experiences - and then be told, that he wants nothing to do with me, he needs nothing from me, and that everything I've gone through was basically a lie... That was wrong.


If that happened then it was indeed completely and utterly wrong.

The Gods 'need' nothing from us that is true (they are deities after all), but if a person told you the above then that was utterly uncalled for. My experience of Heru-Wer is different to what some others get, different even to what is shown in Saq, but it is still valid.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 08:08:45 am by Taiawepwawet »
Rowan (they) | Selene (she)
Meset Wepwawet, Child of (Hekatawy Alexandros)|
Meryt Serqet, Bast, Ra-Heruakhty, Hethert-Amenti, her Nit-Nebthet-Seshat
Fedw and Tarot Diviner • Sau Apprentice • Self-care Hethert-Amenti Advocate
𓇼𓃧𓆫𓃠𓅊𓏣𓋌𓇼

Offline Maainakhtsen

  • Guest
  • Country: 00
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2009, 08:39:47 am »
Quote from: Tai'a
I have pretty much dismissed it as being because most everyone else there was American and they have different cultural rules regarding what is and isn't ok to talk about with people who weren't originally present, but at the time it was *extremely* hurtful and had me choking back tears.


I am really sorry to learn that you had this experience. It isn't ok in America either.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Maainakhtsen »
Senebty,
Ma'ai

"A great pleasure in life is doing what others say you can't." -A Fortune Cookie

Offline Raheri

  • Rev. Matt - Ordained Clergy
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2009, 12:06:32 pm »
Hotep Seta (henu),

I would ask that that while you are a guest in our temple if you could refer to our Nisut as Rev. Tamara or Rev. Siuda, and not just by her first name. It is a title she has earned and deserves. Thank you.

Senebty,
Raheri
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Raheri »
Son of Wesir | Heri-sesheta
Awakening in Amenti

"O my Mother Nut, stretch Yourself over me,
that I may be placed among the imperishable stars which are in You, and that I may not die."

Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2009, 03:40:07 pm »
Quote from: Raheri
Hotep Seta (henu),

I would ask that that while you are a guest in our temple if you could refer to our Nisut as Rev. Tamara or Rev. Siuda, and not just by her first name. It is a title she has earned and deserves. Thank you.

Senebty,
Raheri

For the fact that my wish to be called Seta is honored, I will do this.
"Give sorrow a Sailor smile."
~ "Makenai" by Hanazawa Kae; Sailor Moon Stars, Season 5, episode 200

"Beyond this road, running on far and long, must surely be something we can believe in."
~ "Pure Heart" by Rikki; Final Fantasy VII, "Aerith's Theme"

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2009, 04:54:32 pm »
some people have expression confusion over why this debate is occurring.  i for one would like to say that i am quite intrigued, fascinated, and pleased that it is occurring.  it's excellent reading for anyone contemplating what their place in this faith is or should be.  :)  
Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2009, 04:58:21 pm »
Quote from: Herupaneb
Quote
it generally understood and accepted here that Rev. Siuda IS the only one who can divine Parents and Beloveds, either within the faith or outside of it? She is the only one Netjer has consented to let that knowledge come through?
 


Yes. Rev. Siuda created the concept of Parents and Beloveds as something that is divined for, under the guidance of Sekhmet. She created the Rite of Parent Divination as the medium to do this, and she is the only person who does it.




can someone please explain fedw divination to me, then?  what if someone is told in a fedw divination that a particular Name is their Parent?  where does that information come from?
Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

Offline Sedjemes

  • Semer-Wati
  • Shemsu-Ankh
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2009, 05:05:57 pm »
Hotep Kathleen

Fedw divination is a system taught by the Nisut AUS in person to Shemsu at Wep Ronpet. She is the only one currently teaching that system to members of the House. It cannot be taught online.

Fedw is not used to perform the Rite of Parent Divination. Currently the Nisut uses a system with cowrie shells according to some years of experience and some fairly coherent notes regarding the specific throws.
Khenmetaset ("Aset Gladdens")
Sedjemes ("She listens")
Daughter of Aset-Serqet, Meryt Ra her Sekhmet
Heri-Sesheta Aset-Serqet

Offline Tahotep

  • Shemsu
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2009, 05:06:42 pm »
Quote from: kathleen

can someone please explain fedw divination to me, then?  what if someone is told in a fedw divination that a particular Name is their Parent?  where does that information come from?


Fedw diviners have rules about what sorts of questions they are/are not allowed to answer.  For example, medical advice and RPD-type stuff.

I know before I went through RPD I had a VERY strong experience with Hethert, but I knew my diviner in question couldn't tell me if She was my mother or not.  I managed though, to find out that Hethert wanted me to sing for Her, and seemingly as a temple chantress, which I'm working on currently :)
Tahotepirty
"Peace of (the) Two Eyes" or "Peaceful Two Eyes"
*****
Sat Hethert-Sekhmet her Bast, meryt Aset-Serquet her Amunet

Offline kathleen

  • Remetj
  • Country: us
Re: A Word on RPD
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2009, 05:30:55 pm »
Quote from: Tahotep


Fedw diviners have rules about what sorts of questions they are/are not allowed to answer.  For example, medical advice and RPD-type stuff.





question a:  so this doesn't happen?

question b:  if they are not *allowed* to answer, it implies they have an answer to give or withhold.  could they?  or is it considered to be impossible for them to know?
Redheads are descended from cats. --Mark Twain

 


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